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Expanded pet training...an set of ideas.

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Uvtha, Jul 18, 2010.

  1. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Goal: Personalization, uniqueness, variation in pets. Not stronger, just more interesting.

    What pets could be trained to do: Expanded skills: All the magic, for starters, and things like parry, stealth (I know that idea wont set with well with many, but it could be balanced), and so on. Improved stats and Resists: Self explanatory. Special traits: Things life elemental breath, Bleed, etc, but with expanded choices like slayers, and other passive effects, with a bunch of new things as well.

    Restrictions, limitations, and control slots: At this point you may be thinking to yourself: "Self, making a wolf with 500 hit points that can poison is insane! Imagine 5 of them! The insanity!" and rightly so. Here in comes the part of the idea that preserves the balance of the skill.

    When you first tame an animal in the wild, your pet will come with a "training level" statistic, and a "training threshold" statistic, appearing as- x/x such. As you probably already guessed, as a creature becomes trained up, its training level improves, and once it hits the training threshold, it cannot be further trained. The trained level when tamed will be based on stats of the tame.
    All tamable monsters will spawn with a SIMILAR, but not identical threshold range. This allows for continued "perfect pet" hunting, albeit admittedly at a much lower level. Say threshold is 1000 at max, and monsters spawn with 850+1-150. So people can still enjoy that aspect.

    For example you could tame some bitchin' walrus, which would look like this: 20/1000. Or you could tame a bitchin' Greater Dragon which would look like this 925/1000. So you can see, that walrus has a long road to ass kicking status ahead of it, but christ... it would be worth it to have a deadly battle walrus.

    Now then, the most important part of the training level stat is that it would determine the CONTROL SLOTS the creature requires, as well as the taming required to control. So if you want that beefy carnage bringing "Omega Walrus"... it's gonna end up at 5 control slots. Or conversely, you could have 3 slot version the "Dire Walrus" and team it up with a devious 2 slot "Necro Cow". The names are just for fun of course, but you can see the endless possibilities.

    Methods of training, pet bonding, and loyalty:
    I would then greatly revamp the pet "training" process. First of all I would change the bonding, and loyalty statistics. First of all, a tamed pet once tamed, is "bonded" like we know it now. In other words it will no longer die like a regular pet, but rather turns into a ghost. Also, and I know this may seem like a controversial step, but pets would also never go wild, unless you released them.
    So I could mistreat my pet all the live long day? No. It would eventually stop listening to you, and dissapear back to the stables until you stop treating it poorly.

    Once you have the pet, you begin the new bonding process, and a new numerical bond rating will be displayed on the creatures info gump. Now if you want to teach you pet snazzy new skills, and specials, it will have to be loyal to you, and trust that you know whats up. Each type of creature would have a regular group of things it could learn naturally with little loyalty required, but if you wanted to say... teach a wolf to parry, or develop a poisonous bite, have 200 strength, or 70 cold resist, then you would need higher loyalty the further out of the breeds regular domain you travel.

    Improving (and lowering) pet loyalty: First and foremost, hunt with your pet, and keep your pet fed and ALIVE. Each kill you make, the pet will gain loyalty based on the fame of the creature killed, and how much damage the pet did (top attacker info). As the loyalty improves, your training options improve.
    If you let your pet die, or starve it, or lack the taming skill to control it, obviously, it will trust you less. Eventually if you keep mistreating your pet, the bond rating will hit 0. Once it hits 0, the pet will disappear, returning to your stables, and will remain unavailable for a day. Once a day passes its loyalty will go up to 1, so you could take it out, and try to start the bonding process again.
    Expanded ways of improving loyalty would include preferred foods, preferred foes, etc, just learn your what your pet is, and what it wants.

    Means of teaching: Stats and skills would go up like they do now, just in combat, but I would slow it down a touch personally.
    Resists would improve by fighting creatures that do that type of damage.
    A new cooking craftable line "pet food" could would also play a roll in the process, improving gain chances, and allowing pets to learn the more exotic traits and skills, like poisoning, and spell casting, slayers, bleed etc, and maybe hue changes (within reason).

    Maxes tie to the bonding level. So your pet couldn't have 120 wrestling or 500 str until your were well bonded with it.

    Pets would have a skill list like they do now, but it would only display the skills it has unlocked, and would have a "show cap" rating, and up and down arrows, sames goes with stats and resists. This way you can choose what you want to go up, or down, and you can tell your maxes.

    Conclusion: This system or one like it, while an across the board creature re-evaluation would be required, and scads of work and scaaaaaaads of balancing, would really improve the system as something people can invest time in, and feel rewarded for doing so, encouraging but not demanding (you could still go tame a GD and be ready to go) pets be more "companions" than big meaty tools, to kill and to be killed carelessly.

    And customization is always a big draw to players I think, and for a popular skill like taming, it could really be a big hit if done well I think. And I think it COULD be done well, with just a little forethought, and a lot of testing, making it a really nice, and balanced addition.

    Thoughts? Opinions? Insults?
     
  2. sablestorm

    sablestorm Certifiable
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    Interesting. I actually love using quirky tamers who specialize in all the different animals that can be tamed.

    One additional aspect that would have to be addressed with your idea is creature control levels. As it is now, if I tame a mongbat, I can trade that mongbat to any character out there, regardless of their taming or lack of taming, I should say. If I train up an uber mongbat, however, I don't think it should be able to be handed off to just anyone.
     
  3. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
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    Should of covered the control slots more. Like I want my purple bunny stats it mirror a runebeetle. It would make gains and its control slots and taming skill required would increase. In time it would be a rune beetle with purple bunny artwork. What tamer wouldn't want to take a blue beetle and make it as bad as a light GD. The pack ability would cost so it would end up being a 5 slot GD without its breath weapon.

    The rare few of us that know about the pack and would understand just being able to bring pets to max stats. Reason in umpteenth years no new pack animal of worth has come out. Few thing that can't be soloed and killed fast. And in balance what can't be soloed really shouldn't.
     
  4. GarthGrey

    GarthGrey Crazed Zealot
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    I would totally go for this. I would rather hunt with a Giant Spider than a Greater Dragon, if the GS could do the damage.
     
  5. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    Actually that idea is very similar to the idea I posted back on the old forum before it was deleted (last iteration of the Stratics forum), in fact apart from that I also had a new skill called "Animal Training" which could count for Animal Taming for control purposes, would give stable slots, but would not allow you to tame critters. It would however allow you to by using special "herbs and magical potions" to train any pet up to whatever skill level you have Animal Training at. (so at GM Animal Taming, you can raise a pets maximum trainable levels to 100)

    Every pet would have a "skill pool", a "resist pool" a "max attributes" and a "max resist levels". Increasing the abilities of a pet would work kinda like imbuing takes up slots on an item, up to 5 slots. 5 slots would = 5 control slots.

    So abilities (like fire breathing, spell casting, etc.) would cost X points. Ability points cost so and so much, the same for resists and skills.

    Pets would take ages to train up and the herbs and magical potions would be fairly hard to obtain. (Abyss loot)

    Existing tamers would be allowed to swap Animal Taming for Animal Training if they wish. Or they could simply have both (or make a new character) As such it would make taming a true 4 skill "skill set" without counting herding, which sucks.

    This would also allow people to take their very first pet and train it all the way through to the end with them, without having to slaughter thousands of animals and critters.

    Though as such I agree with your idea very much Uvtha, hope you agree with my hastily written down additions from my origional idea.
     
  6. Zyon Rockler

    Zyon Rockler Guest

    This has some of the basis that is needed but I think if there were 2 paths this one might be going the wrong way. The idea of being able to have any pet go to any level doesn't really make any sense or have any logic imo. I'm not sure why I don't like that, I think maybe it's important to have perspective in the game and be able to use perception.

    If a bunny is going to attack you, you would expect that throwing carrots on the ground might fend it off or that it would leave some really nasty, pointy teeth marks or even say, "What's up Doc?" Not that this has logic persay but that it is a world of better structure because you expect certain things and that might be important in UO.

    The base value of certain pets should be pretty much equal to what they are now as well as the skill or abilities, the only difference should be is a hard cap imo. So, if you were going to tame a giant spider it might have a maximum of 100 hits and 50 poisoning.

    If you were going to tame a dread spider it might have 150 hits, 100 poisoning and 100 magery eval.

    If you were going to tame Navery, she might have 2,000 hit points, so on and so on...

    So, the character of this creature you tame initially would be the same. You couldn't make a bunny a greater dragon because then you wouldn't really need any types of spawns really. You should have to tame a certain type of creature that can handle those basic skills.

    As far as the basic level of pets, the whole system is completely wrong and way out-dated. A pet's special moves should be icons that the tamer possesses. For example: If you tame a trapdoor spider, you would get 3 icons, this is off the top of my head so, hiding, poison, and dash. When you use the icon hiding, your pet hides. When you use the icon poison, your pet uses it's special move, poison and when you tell it to dash it runs very quickly.

    This changes the way the tamer communicates with it's pet, allowing the tamer to control it, rather than it being random. Kinda like when you tell your dog to sit, shake hands, roll over, rather than it just happening randomly because the pet is capable of it. This way you can command your pet.

    Some things could still be done by a pet, like when it comes in a room and asks to go out, it's not like they would be completely mindless, well depending on the spawn, like the cu healing. So, then icons, that you would have for those pets, could be based on skill, similar to a weapon.

    So, schools could be added or ways of getting those, maybe those extraordinarily rare icons, such as riding a spider or controlling a flying pet.

    The skill gump should probably look more like character skill gumps. You could still trade out different skills but I would like to see them added in, not the ones we have now, but they could be similar. For example: Putting swords on a dragon, rather than wrestling would give you a new group of icons but instead of calling it swords, the ability could be claw, so your dragon would train claw.

    So, you would have your basic stats and skills, the ability to pick different skills and then a way to use those skills and set hard caps, that you could work up to.
     
  7. GarthGrey

    GarthGrey Crazed Zealot
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    It would have been easier for you to say "Taming is fine the way it is"...that's pretty much the jist of your response.
     
  8. Drazasamus

    Drazasamus Guest

    what if you left the pet enhancing to simply one slot pets, and make them more of, say a humoculous. THis way you would need magery, a bond must be formed, and the pet can only advance to a three slot pet, no better than a decent rune beetle for dread mare... not to bad, and not over powered
     
  9. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Yeah, I know a mega bird sparrow coming at you would probably be an issue. But on the other hand, we have the fire bunny, and vorpal bunny, and the phoenix, and swoop... so its not TOTALLY out of place. But yes, it would be lame for a small thing to get you out of nowhere.

    As for pets being controllable... I'm not really into that. I like how UO pets can take care of themselves. UO isn't WoW, nor does it need to be to be modern and interesting.
     
  10. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    I would be down for like, size restrictions. So like a bird would have its threshold maxed at 500 rather than 1000, etc. So you could still rock a power bear, but the birds and bunnies are less of a pvp surprise attack. That way the lesser pets would still be worthwhile, and the drakes and dragons would be more powerful.

    Or even restrict training from really small stuff. Which would be sad, but perhaps a better plan.

    When I was writing out the idea, the though occurred to me, that the most likely way something like this would get put into a game would be like a special creature, but I don't like that. I wanna see people with wolves and bears and spiders.
     
  11. Zyon Rockler

    Zyon Rockler Guest

    So, why not just make those type of things tameable? You just create a cap, so if you had a fire bunny or swoops, purple looking bird, you would have an idea of what it was capable of, then the devs could still add unique spawns that would be important to the tamer because of their atributes.

    The problem with not creating icons or commands is that you wouldn't be able to have control over your pet, so they would never be able to work with any kind of templates. For example: If you made a trapdoor spider tameable, what would be the point of having it if it hides when it wants to?

    If you are a stealther/tamer and you hide, you would need a way to tell your pet to hide also. So, you would have to create a system to allow for the pet's abilities to be controlled by the tamer.

    If you had a greater dragon as another example, and you set it's skills to claw and you used the bleed attack and then the fire breath attack, the tamer would become much more invloved. You would not have control over every little thing, like its' spell casting or when it bites, but you would have command over its' initial attack and much more control over its' abilities.

    UO used icons long before WoW and as far as it becoming WoW that would be impossible because UO came before WoW. There is just no other way to expand your abilities unless you add a way for the user to control them.
     
  12. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Because it allows a level of customization, and personalization. People enjoy that sort of thing. As for hiding trap door spiders, I would imagine it could hide when you do, and it could hide whenever its just standing still and not agro. Then when a target comes on screen, the spider sneaks up and attacks.
    Really hiding is the only thing that would even really be an argument for something other than pet ai. Pets already do specials, so thats all ready.

    And by it being a wow thing I mean making your pet just like where some of your moves and damage come from rather than its own thing. I like that I can have my pet take care of it's self while I run around doing damage or barding. I LIKE that I don't always have to baby sit my pet, and the cost is in template space.
     
  13. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    I agree, though I don't see why small critters should be restricted. So what if someone has a 5 control slot bird...is that any more overpowered than a Cu Sidhe or Greater Dragon?

    Just have the control needed to control the pet rise as its power rises.

    The most powerful and well trained pet should only be able to be fully controlled by a 120/120 tamer.

    Though thanks for not commenting on my post. rolleyes:
     
  14. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    I only though birds would be a bad idea because they are hard to target/see etc. And it would be annoying to die trying to get a target bar while some super sparrow pecks your face off.

    Didn't have anything substantive to add really, sounds fine. Was then distracted by contrary posts.
     
  15. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    This is true, but counter to that, they wouldn't fill the entire screen at events and fights.

    Perhaps the devs should upgrade the targeting of especially the CC to battle this problem, which is a problem in any regard, so needs to be fixed any way.

    Ok, but honestly it helps when good ideas are supported, as my addition to this thread could easily be ignored. I am glad you like it. In the end, I am very much in agreement with you, I would love to see taming more diverse and some use be made of the many many many tamables there are in the game.

    Though I want a fire breathing 5 slot 120/120 requirement super goat!

    Mountable pets should simply have their mounting ability cost XXX points. So you could certainly have a 5 slot Nightmare or 5 Slot Blue Beetle, but they'd never be as powerful as a non-mountable 5 slot pet.

    This would also allow for the devs to be more creative with pets and not worry so much about whether they're immediately useful.
     
  16. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Your Draco-Goat will have to contend with the mighty wrath of my Omega Walrus!!!
     
  17. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    Now that would be epic, hehehe.
     
  18. Drazasamus

    Drazasamus Guest

    but my pet glacial snake will eat both !
     
  19. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    It would be cool if those were useful, they look neat.

    p.s. no one defeats Omega Walrus.
     
  20. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    Imagine the epic video of a PvPer beaten by a Walrus. :lol:
     
  21. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    This is too good an idea to let slide off the main page.