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Faction enhanced aids, way overpowered...

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Mr Moosestache, Oct 24, 2008.

  1. Unless people care to see nothing but 4/6 chiv dexxers in factions, I woudl recommend something be done to fix the "remove curse" every 4 seconds with an aid in factions. That is a bit much, especially when the apple macro is 15 seconds. The aids have no downfall to them, and it can completely negate any type of mage besides a tamer-mage. Tamer mages and the new super pets are over powered as it is in PvP.
     
  2. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    Except, almost all 4/6 chiv dexers I've seen don't use healing.
     
  3. Cardell

    Cardell Lore Keeper
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    I agree. Those bandages are crazy. They should tone it down a bit.
     
  4. Sarphus

    Sarphus Guest

    What if they had a chance to remove curses based on your anat and healing skills? Or is that what they do?

    120/120 could be 80% chance to remove curse scaling down to 5% at 0/0.

    I can see how removing curse every 4 seconds would be a problem... who needs chiv if you have remove curses on your bandages?
     
  5. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    That would make more sense.
     
  6. Rix/\

    Rix/\ Guest

    take in consideration of stat losses there also, don't go crying nerf just yet.
     
  7. I'd rather have them fix it while it's in testing instead of having another incident like say, super dragons/dread mares in PvP. What about stat loss though? I mean, it's not like people are only allowed to use them in stat loss. I don't see what you are getting at.
     
  8. Doomsday Dragon

    Doomsday Dragon Visitor

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    I have to agree. I for one am using a nox fencer with no magical abilities just poison and weapon specials for offensive and bandages to heal myself. I need something like this for my particular template and it still is not overpowered when used like that.

    4/6 chiv is being looked at anyhow if I remember correctly because it is overpowered as it stands. But the purpose of 4/6 chiv in a template is so that you do not need to waste skill points on healing.

    And to further my argument what about Gheals? if a pair of mages cross heal there is very little delay between very large heals. Even a heal is faster and more effective than a bandage.

    Bottom line is that those who are complaining about this tend to forget what it takes to be able to use a bandage in the first place. You need several skills and stats tied up into the use of bandages if you want to use them and use them fast and effectively.
     
  9. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    1) How can you compare 2 mages casting spells on each other to a grossly overpowered item/ability

    Six mages casting flamestrike on me at the same time can do 240 pts of damage in 1 shot so my dagger should be able to do the same 1 vs 1?

    2) You are CHOOSING to play a nox fencer(uhh, warrior)with 0 magical abilities and feel that you should also be able to use a magical ability through an item to abuse the template? Hrmmm, that sounds about fair lmao.

    3) The devs should add more grossly overpowered items into the game so that faction players can possibly abuse them to help negate the effects of statloss? Riiight.


    Puleeze!
     
  10. Viquire

    Viquire Crazed Zealot
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    Xhealing necro pally archers FTW!:lick:
     
  11. Sakkarah_

    Sakkarah_ VIP
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    The bandages are like enchanted apples on an application timer. The curse removal isn't based on your healing skills. So a non-healer template (yes mages too) will effectively lift any curse, bleed, mortal wounds or poison with the bandages even at 0 skills. The only time the skill check is performed is if by the time the bandage applies the target is no longer under any curse or if the target is dead.

    HP restored or the ability to resurrect is skill-based. Lifting curses is not.
     
  12. Except bandage time is based on dex which dexxers (clues in the name) will have and mages won't. Or are we now expectecd to apply bandages while casting heal & attacking while being interrupted? *you must wait to perform another action* springs to mind.

    I doubt it'll matter, we'll all be dexxers soon enough - I just don't appreciate the attempt to pass it off as being equally beneficial to both.
     
  13. D'Amavir

    D'Amavir Guest

    Why not just make curses not able to be cast on faction members? Since you are effectively killing curses as a strategy. Oh ya, that's right, you guys are trying to kill pvp altogether because you don't know how to fix it. My bad.
     
  14. Regine, you are effectively killing the whole point of mages with that whole idea. I'm not sure how many of the devs actually play UO let alone PvP, but it will really put a halt to anyone caring to play a mage in factions/PvP in general. I sure hope there are people PvP'ing on mages in your dev team so you could possibly see the issue with this....maybe....
     
  15. Lord Kotan

    Lord Kotan Slightly Crazed
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    Questions:
    1) There is a 20s timer between uses?
    2)Any template can use these; and remove curse 100% of the time with 0 skill?
    3)If it removes curse, does it still heal?

    If all three of these are yes.. I don't see a problem. (just that they aren't as good as I thought)
     
  16. Tested these on test with max dex and 4 second heals. 100 aids at an average heal of 70-84 dmg and every one of them removed curse...please fix this.
     
  17. Satanatra

    Satanatra Guest

    The 70 heals is what u get if u have 120 healing/120 anat and that has nothing to do with the new bandages...
    Here's a chart for you: http://uo.stratics.com/content/skills/healing.php

    What i would like to know is whether the bandage will EITHER remove curse OR remove curse and heal at the same time ie does it work like with poison (the bandage will cure you but then not heal...).

    If the bandages remove curse and heal at once - then it would be over powered imo. If not, then i wouldnt bother with them - id just eat an apple so that i actually get my hp back. Im not sure many people can wait 8 secs in between getting any hp back in a fight. Not to mention that if you get hit by mortal etc again you may never get ANY hp back...

    Nothing i hate more than when i mis-time my cure puts and the bandage is basically wasted.


    PS i dont believe for one second that you actuallly tested anything on TEST.
     
  18. Nexus

    Nexus Site Support
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    Personally I think all the faction items need to be looked at closely after they go live on prodo shards. Me personally I could care less about factions but I can see these goodies having an effect on Non-Faction PvP also.
     
  19. Bombastic Fail

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    Answers for ya [To the best of my abilites :) ]
    1. No. There is no timer (So it seems. If so max heal timer aka 4 seconds? lol)
    2. According to 'Regine_EAMythic' that posted above; it would be like a mage applying it; and after it "applies" whether it failed or not; the curse is removed.
    3. Yes it does. Removes curse&heals. Think of it as healing; then at the end of a heal; eating an apple.


    Maybe he left a little bit out. Heres everything for you.

    100 bandaids. (100 tries; obvisiously) Each one 120 healing/anat. 125+ Dex. Each time was cursed/damaged prior. Every 4 seconds; was healed & curse was removed.


    He certainly did. I was with him. He is simply stateing it seems highly overpowered. Dont be quite so rude eh? What do you want; a video of someone healing themselves 100 times? Would you really sit and watch it anyways?

    My suggestion is just make them with the apple timer (Every 15 seconds). And it should be just fine. (Just like having stackable apples right?)


    Either way; I play a necromage & an archer. All the arties are pretty strong. So if the bandaids are(nt) removed, I'll have a char to use either way. A necro mage with the super arties if they are removed; or an archer with super bandys & arties if they arent =]
     
  20. Violence

    Violence Lore Keeper
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    Congrats. You are BUTCHERING the game. :bowdown:
     
  21. truss

    truss Guest

    its sad. they are killing the game more and more. they dont care. they think by sticking more things in the game they are making it better. this will only make the game worse. i already have a fencer archer with 50 ep and 180 stam with max dex. i heal and cure easy pots apples and aids. after this patch my guy will be the stupidest char in uo. thats guys for helping my char be better and better. to bad is i will have less and less guys to fight. thanks for killing the game!
     
  22. laurlo

    laurlo Guest

  23. ElRay

    ElRay Guest

    Woooooow,

    More overpowered items introduced to you by the same clueless people who let speedhacks run rampant in this game

    Should we, as players really expect anything less from these devs?

    C-L-U-E-L-E-S-S
     
  24. WildWobble

    WildWobble Sage
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    my 2 cents

    Cool new item very handy for all classes. Sorry but it is good for pvp mages as well as warriors, since most good tactics mages which are very strong in pvp have like 80 dex, well some do anyhow. My mage weapon nox fencer necro mage is dyein for the aids and the new crystaline ring. An extra remove curse now and then will be handy. I just think we should all get a chance to try them out before you all go saying to strong. Give ppl the chance to ajust and find pitfals and perks in the builds and then mabe condem them as to strong.
     
  25. They have been checked out. That's exactly what test center is for. I'm really not aware of any real "pit falls" for a 4-8 seconds healing remove curse.
     
  26. Cardell

    Cardell Lore Keeper
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    go on TC. I spent the last few days playing. There are so many DP dexers that alternate apples and faction bandages. Even if you don't have dex, between the apples and faction aids you remove curse every 7 - 8 seconds. Thats pretty overpowered.

    Apples on a 15 second timer already pretty much negate necro, add those faction bandages and some people are going to be way to tough to kill. That's just imho.
     
  27. Please look into this.

    Shameless bump.
     
  28. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Wait wait.....

    There's enhanced bandages for Factioners in Pub 56?

    I don't see that in the notes.....

    Or is this already in effect and I for some reason didn't take advantage of it while I was in Factions?

    If so, crap, that would've won me some fights I otherwise lost!!

    -Galen's player
     
  29. Bombastic Fail

    Bombastic Fail Certifiable
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    [​IMG]

    Ya bro; heres what they look like.
    You get them at the faction chest where you get the arties.
    100 silver gets you 10 of them.
     
  30. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    And they remove curse?

    Well crap.

    lol

    *sighs*

    Thanks.

    Oh well.

    -Galen's player


     
  31. Sakkarah_

    Sakkarah_ VIP
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    A bit of a clarification:

    1. The bandages will heal and remove curses only in cases where the curse doesn't normally prevent healing. If you're strangled, cursed, corpsed, essenced, etc., applying the bandages will lift the curse and restore HP based on your healing skills.

    2. The bandages will NOT restore HP if you are under "curse" that would otherwise prevent you to heal through. It will ONLY remove effects like mortal wounds, bleed, poison... you will still need to either chug a pot, close wound, apply another bandage or cast heal spell to restore your HP.

    3. This is actually granting mages and non-paladins the ability to effectively remove curses from themselves and/or friendlies.

    4. Applying bandages has never affected your ability to cast spell, so there is no such thing as being disrupted from casting because of it.

    5. A lot of pvp mages have fairly high dex, which can be helped further with agility pots, so I do not see this as benefiting dexxers only, especially considering the curse lifting aspect of it doesn't require healing skills.

    6. I understand the concern about stacking apples and bandages, and do not exclude the possibility of adding a reuse timer on the bandages like the one on the apples. And this is why it's on TC for you guys to test.
     
  32. Sarphus

    Sarphus Guest

    How will this work with a bandage self macro? Or do you mean that the bandages would trigger the cooldown on your apples, so you can't use the 2 together?
     
  33. Splup

    Splup Guest

    I like the fact that you mentioned mages can use them also. But These worries come up cause I think some/many of us are afraid that these new artifacts and items will make archers even stronger. Since archers are overpowered compared to mages in many ways. What mages are good at is xhealing and fielding but that's kinda it. Archer basically just is better class atm. except in chokepoints. Even there it can be better to have few mages fielding and rest archers.

    Mainly cause archer can kill a mage but mage can't kill dexer. Except if mage makes some amazing fielding or dexer is playing plain stupid (read: does not run away in time). Mage has to stay still to heal so dexer can take down a mage, archer can moving shot mage down. And no matter how much DCI mage has this won't change. That's why usually high end gear end up helping dexers more then mages, since playing a dexer is mostly about gear, playing a mage is more about players irl skills. Archers are very defensive and offensive at the same time, mage has to choose. Maybe some timer on chugging potions with balanced weapon could be a good add.

    I'm not saying these items will make dexers even stronger compared to mages, but I'm just bit afraid. Too bad I can't go play testcenter now, but I'll be back to Finland in 9 days so then I can maybe to try out myself.

    But I still like giving faction new items, that's great! I'm just still wishing for some bone for mages ;).
    Maybe some item we could try to throw while running to make dmg to running targets, or spell that would work bit like death strike but with bit longer effect time.

    Also movingshot should cost lot more mana then it does at the moment. Pure archers can shoot moving shots endlessly, since they have meditation and MR/LMC on armor. They are humans so moving shot costs them Very little mana. I think moving shot was not supposed to something you can spam all the time, but something with you can try to finish off low health opponent who starts running.

    But still, many thanks for giving factions a bone ;)
     
  34. D'Amavir

    D'Amavir Guest

    Why does everyone have to have the ability to do everything? Making each template capable of the same things will just take away the reasons people have to pick and choose what they want to play.
     
  35. Kaleb

    Kaleb Lore Master
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    How do the bandages work with the fountain of life anyone test that yet?
     
  36. envinyatar

    envinyatar Guest

    I wish the devs would realize this important fact...
     
  37. This is exactly what I have an issue with. Say you curse, corpse, or strangle (even mortal/essence for that matter on a mage.) using the mana required for that spell fighting an archer (Already overpowered)/dexxers you will need to RECAST these spells after every aid, using more mana just to keep a fair fight. It's not like regular curse is some sort of over powered ability so I don't see the need to have it removed every 4 seconds (4/6 chiv, can already negate this anyway). So basically, you have a mage having to use half his mana pool just to recurse his opponent just to attempt to be able to do enough actual damage to MAYBE get a kill before the dexxer heal pots (50 ep) or uses his chiv/aids etc. or just plain runs away (Normal ops). Oh, and lets not forget confidence.

    Even in mage PvP, it's a negative addition, I mean spell play/disrupts, chiv mages, apples, these are all perfectly good and sufficient ways to remove/stop curses if you need to do so in group and solo PvP as a mage.

    It will completely take away any reason for people to play a mage vs. a dexxer/archer alone, and in a lot of ways removing 98% of any mage template from PvP. This is basically another inadvertent nerf to the entire mage genre. I just hope you guys can see this and make a change before releasing it and killing PvP even more. If you wander Fel on 85% of the shards you can see the meager numbers of PvP'ers dwindling with every "PvP update".
     
  38. Splup

    Splup Guest

    I couldnt agree more. True every word. Amen.
     
  39. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    I don't mind them, just another way to overcome the archers with endless mana. I once had someone mortal me 6 times in a row...
     
  40. Sakkarah_

    Sakkarah_ VIP
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    Which is nothing apples do not already do, except with a 15 sec timer. So if I understand what you're saying, your main issue is the fact that there is no cooldown on the bandages other than the time required to apply them. As stated earlier, I am opened to the possibility of adding a reuse timer on them. But that said...

    The mage curse, while very helpful in killing a dexxer, isn't as harmful as say mortal and lethal (which you can't heal through) and disruptive specials such as strangle which makes you fizzle at what always seems to be the most critical time. Considering mages are the ones mostly negatively impacted by these "curses", who would really benefit from a longer timer? The dexxers who cannot be mortaled by mages, who can already heal through the mage curse and if he has chiv can already lift the curse? Or the mages who will have to run until their apple timer is up and hope to get a heal off before they are mortaled/lethaled again?
     
  41. Nastia Cross

    Nastia Cross Guest

    You're wrong there.. mages can indeed mortal dexxers... spell channeling hammer pick, bone harvester, etc..
     
  42. Messiah

    Messiah Guest

    I already have one of the sickest dexers in the game, can kill anyone on any of the shards i've been to 2vs1 with ease, and after testing these aids on Test Center i've come to the conclusion adding these will only add to my ease of killing people. With these aids, apples and everything i carry i wouldn't be suprised killing people 3 and 4vs1.


    Adding these bandaids without a timer similar to that of apples is very stupid, and honestly shouldn't be added at all. I feel apples are sufficient enough.
     
  43. ElRay

    ElRay Guest


    If we have apples that take curses away......why do we need these bandages again? I think these bandages are a really dumb idea
     
  44. Splup

    Splup Guest

    But mages usually have like 20 dex, and with potions you can get it to 40-50. With 50 dex bandies take 9 seconds compared to dexers 4 seconds. Keeping this in mind timer would prolly benefit mages. I hope someone who has been playing on TC could tell us facts how it has been working. I can't play before 6th of November when I come back home.

    Also using bandies prevents us from using spells for 1 second while dexer can still be hitting, and the bandies actually heal them also. I don't know how easy these bandies are to obtain, but if dexers really use them all the time, so they remove curse every 4 seconds, it's a Really bad hit to mages, since it's really hard to make enough damage even nowdays.

    Edit: I would like to hear people's opinions what should be done to mages to boost em back up to dexers level? I think it's kinda sad that the most irl skill needing template is getting overrun by "2 click chars".

    I asked my guildmate who has been playing on TC, he also says that dexers are just Insane with those new bandies. Sounds really bad.
     
  45. Splup

    Splup Guest

    How about give mages FC 3 back?

    It would not create imbalance between mages since FC 3 is really easy to get due to scrappers, cheap ornaments, cheap arcane shields and helm of swiftness, but this could maybe help us a bit against dexers. Or let us have 25 SDI.
     
  46. John Galt

    John Galt Guest

    Put a two minute timer on these new bandages.
     
  47. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    If they have Tactics and weapon skill. That doesn't seem to be terribly common these days.

    -Galen's player
     
  48. Hawkind

    Hawkind Guest


    Very helpful? It's almost a requirement to take down a dexxer who knows what they are doing. The problem here is that the bandages don't have any sort of cooldown other than the bandage timer. I'd suggest making it so the bandages share the cooldown with the apples. Basically you'd have the option of either using the bandage and removing the curse while healing or using an apple.
     
  49. Doomsday Dragon

    Doomsday Dragon Visitor

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    How is this abusing a template and how is the ability I gain from these bandages magical?

    You CHOOSE to play something other than a dexxer so suffer the defects of YOUR template of CHOICE...
     
  50. Splup

    Splup Guest

    If you check faction kills, you will notice how unbalanced mages are against dexers already, and these bandies would make dexers even better, since they are very hard to kill without him being cursed

    http://town.uo.com/factions/factions_24.html

    That is our shard, I myself play in F3W so we'r doing pretty well at the moment. But what's interesting if you look at the Europa players with most kills.

    In top 5, there's one (1) mage Thunder Bird. He plays in our guild and I know there's more behind those kills, having different temps then mage etc. In top 10 there's two (2) mages. In top 15 there's three (3) mages. Rest dexers. Eldan who's a mage in place 15 is in our guild also, he gets pretty few kills but as a VERY skillfull parryingmage he also dies very rarely. That char is purely groupfight char, very defensive, keeping us healed.

    If you check the same statistics from other shards you will find same thing:

    Atlantic, top 10 there's 1 mage. Rest dexers.

    On catskills, top 10 there's 1 mage and 1 tamer. Rest dexers.

    Those stats speak pretty hard language.