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Faction Item Question

Discussion in 'UHall' started by o2bavr6, May 17, 2009.

  1. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    I have a question for those of you who play in Fel and are not in factions.

    Do you think faction items are fair in Fel?

    It makes PvP even more imbalanced than it already is with the new pots and bandaids.

    Is it fair to force people to join factions now just so that they can compete in PvP?

    Thoughts?.

    It would be interesting if the Des could figure out a way to make the item bonuses, like the faction Crim Cinture or the greater stam pots, not work or have their bonuses not included if the faction person is flagged to a non-faction player.
     
  2. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    You are never going to have two players fighting with the exact same item properties, with or without faction artifacts. There are Event Moderator items which used to give out insane bonuses. There are now replicas which are really hard to get, such as the Guard Sash.

    If a single item is so unbalancing or an item property, then that should be fixed. A bracelet which gives you +2 mana regeneration or a head piece with slightly better resistances is not going to greatly affect the course of a fight.
     
  3. HunterXHunter

    HunterXHunter Visitor

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    Faction arties are a great addition to factions. If anything faction gear shouldnt work in TRAM, not the other way around.
     
  4. KidJoe

    KidJoe Guest

    I have non faction toon that took out 2 faction toons last night in a 2v1. It would be nice if they went into stat loss if any other player killed them not just factions (at lest the red toons). I think that would balance it out for the items rewards they get. But you know crying would start if that ever happened. just have to find ways to over come this advantage they have with creative play.
     
  5. HunterXHunter

    HunterXHunter Visitor

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    It will be perfectly fine if the same rule apply to bluebies, if blues get killed by factions and they get in stat, but then the crying would start. Face it, bluebies who arent in faction dont want to have anything to do with statloss yet crying about faction arties, just have to find ways to over come some of the advantages bluebies have when you cant stat them and they just died 10 times over and came back in 2 seconds, zergling style.
     
  6. Ailish

    Ailish Lore Master
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    I personally havent seen much impact. The people I could kill before I can still kill just as easy, and the ones I couldnt I still cant. The same is exactly true if I am on a faction char with faction arties. The caps still cannot be exceeded, so all it means is that people have greater ease getting to the caps. Big deal.
     
  7. Phaen Grey

    Phaen Grey Lore Master
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    This is what I was thinking, all it seems to have done is added more players to the field, but tactics and experience still win out in the end until you are out numbered beyond what your skill level can take.
     
  8. Snakeman

    Snakeman UO Forum Moderator
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    As I said in another post a few months ago, They should never of been able to be used in Tram whats so ever. Fel Ok, it was to promote factions, but not to be worn in Tram. I have always said all Faction items should drop off the character within 5 mins when they come to Tram. Suit up/Rez, restock, etc., 5 mins is plenty of time. Then you look at the their resists, Faction items are much more balanced resistance wise then the Real ones.
    Example Inquisitor's Resolution Gloves Resistances
    Real Inq Res: 5, 3, 22, 3, 17
    Faction Inq's:10, 10, 20, 10,10
    Heck of a lot easier to build a suit around the Faction items then real :(
    Probably get flamed, but thats my opinion (And I have a Faction guy & he wears nothing Faction)
     
  9. Black Majick

    Black Majick Certifiable
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    That or as soon as you enter trammel wearing them...they go there normal default properties...

    BTW. I have 3 faction toons who all use atleast 1 LvL 10 factoin arty in there suits.
     
  10. Lyconis

    Lyconis Sage
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    Faction items are the only reason I can "afford" the gear to compete in pvp. If I bought the items to replace my faction gear I'd be spending tens of millions, which I don't have (orni, crimson, crystalline, etc). Going from monster loot and the three barbed kits I've been able to get the bods really changed my ability to stay alive. This is the first time I've been able to really play in Felucca since AOS came out. PVP isn't about skill anymore, its about items and downloads. Faction gear gives me half of the ability to compete which is good enough for me.

    I think it would make the largest impact on a shard like siege.

    As for removing the items in Trammel I don't see the point unless you want the uber items prices to go back up. It would be more of an annoyance to have to have two suits of armor per character. Is there anyone that likes to build armor suits? They added statloss to compensate for the easy access uber gear. If you were killed by the crimson spawn you went into stat in Trammel with or without faction gear.
     
  11. Snakeman

    Snakeman UO Forum Moderator
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    I have no quams for Factions use at all, the problem is why should one be able to use these Faction items in tram... 1st many have better properties vs real (more even for easier building suits) Anyone can get them in factions, seriously it isn't hard, why don't we make it like Test Center if all should be able to have them. Just say "Give Artis" and be done with it! There are so many that have joined Factions & that are using these Faction items in tram only & never again setting foot in Fel.. now is this being able to gear up fair to those who are not able to get into factions? If they want them to compete in Faction wars that's fine, but don't allow them to pop into tram for over 5 min's & use them. They had suits before this, go back to them. If not, do like the rest do, BUILD THEM.

    Siege has no tram so no problem there.

    The Crimson Spawn is done, but the items are still here. I'm saying, like many the items should not be allowed in Tram.

    Only thing I will say, is like you & many others have said. The game is Too Item based now to compete in PvP. It's not the skill any more, it's the items you have. It's sad
     
  12. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    I had 3chars in factions...one however never set foot in fel. However, recently(as of yesterday) my soloist is now out of factions...reason...Really wasnt any point me being in them.

    It became more of a pain attempting to maintain faction rank for really nothing, the suit i know wear out of factions is actually better than the one i used in them, the only bonus i gained from faction arties was 10%HCI and 10%DI(plus a few resists and 5dex on crimmy). I managed to overcome this and more with looted/crafted items.

    Oh and now i can get res's when doing fel spawns with my guild!

    The other chars are in faction for the sigs and i must say only one uses the items(well they all use the crimmy but who wouldnt!), and for him(a mage) it has saved me maybe 70mil!(25inquis, 10+mil orny, 18ish crystaline,10mil crimmy), also has made the suit building easier as i can now pick, inquis and uber ring or crystaline and resist/mod gloves. Without these helpers id still be waiting to play him as he just would not have a suit to semi-compete with!
     
  13. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    Lets say you are correct.

    What about faction greater dex potions and faction bandaids?

    They do have a huge impact on PvP when fighting someone non-faction.
     
  14. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    I can relate to what you are saying.

    Let me ask you this.

    Is it fair that I did spend hundreds of millions of gold on my suit to make it to where I could compete, to only have its value thrown away by the introduction of the faction items?

    And yes... the game does change, so we all do have to adapt.

    But it just seems that today in PvP with some of the Uber templates out there. I just wish they would have spent some time on balancing pets and Bush and Chiv and Ninja before introducing items that will make them even more difficult to kill.
     
  15. HunterXHunter

    HunterXHunter Visitor

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    Is it fair they changed my invaluable Silver Supremely Accuracy Katana of Vanquishing into some stupid ass Undead slayer katana with 35 damage increase after AoS?

    Is it fair that my staff of magi used to worth 25mill but now its worth like 3? And there isnt even a faction version Staff of Magi...

    Is it fair they changed my real skill WoD AI one hit kill archer into a ****ty template that nolonger work?

    And you said yourself, the game changes so we all have to adapt and I adapted. Like all the newbie archer tamer gimplets, I hate them but I play one myself... No one is stopping you from getting all the OVERPOWERED FACTION ARTIES... just one click away...

    You can have all the advantages insta-rez blues can have if you dont join faction, but no arties for you.

    or..

    Join faction and enjoy all the arties and experience how they are overpowered and you can now own everyone with 1 hit but then dont come here and complain about statloss and how you cant just get a 2 sec quick rez and back in action full power. :talktothehand:
     
  16. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    Ot of these the only things i would like to see changed, Ninja form takes 1control slot like an ethy(the point of 5slot animals was you had to walk with them),chiv cure and remove curse is skill only based(not mainly karma as it is now).

    Edit: oh and is it fair my full indestructable invul plate armour became barely better than Legendary platemail overnight??
     
  17. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    I hear you there, I had an exceedingly accurate fortified katana of vanq that was blessed. Now it's doggie doo.

    Staff of the magi is one item, it alone doesn't imbalance the game,

    Again you are taking about one spell that was way over powered so they changed that spell only.

    My point is that the faction items do allow for a more powerful template, that no one in the game can achieve unless in factions.

    With every thing you said at least every person had the chance to get those items or skills without being forced to play a certain way.


    Well I am in factions and I still find it unfair.

    I also think that faction stat loss is just plain dumb. people play in factions because they want 24x7 fights. So if that's the case why even have statloss?

    To me it's just another example of short sighted game design decisions. Along with over powered pets as well as the ability for a pet owner to insta mount his pet while someone on an ethy mount has to wait 2 seconds.
     
  18. thelust6

    thelust6 Guest

    I have to agree even though I'm guilty of it myself, should faction arties be useable in trammel rulesets? I find they make pvm even easier than it was before, been able to stack in bonus mods, pvm ain't much of a challenge :p
     
  19. Vexxed

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    Umm... NO THEY DONT at least imo....

    Faction Greater Stam pots are LESS useful than the regular ones. The faction ones give you back stamina over time, which has it's uses in a FEW situation, but the regular ones give you full stam instantly which is far better.... The ONLY time I use factions ones is to avoid a painspike spam on a mage, but I still carry regular stam pots for those situation where your out of stam & cannot move & need it NOW...

    Faction bandages are pretty useless now... The fact that you cannot use the UO bandage macro & have faction & regular bandages in your pack means you have to try to use uo assist ( re-recording item specific macros gets old everytime you grab more bandages)... If you have both types it will randomly use one of them but with the 15 second re-use timer on the faction aides that can be quite bad... Apples are just better...
     
  20. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    To the OP:

    Faction arties are fine, they just make it possible for people to PvP who otherwise wouldn't be able.

    I agree that it's BS that trammies use the gear, therefore factions should be able to duke it out in trammel rulesets.

    Stat loss is what makes factions fun. It introduces a "risk, albeit a small one. It makes it possible to determine when someone actually wins a fight, opposed to people just setting up a grinder to res and have a never-ending battle of nox fields, meteor swarms, and withers.
     
  21. wrekognize

    wrekognize Guest

    So you're saying I should have to rework my entire suit when I go to trammel because faction gear should not be useable there? Isn't the reason faction gear was added to make it easier for people to build suits, and to get people in factions and play UO. gear not working in trammel would just be another reason for people to log off...


    ....
     
  22. Lyconis

    Lyconis Sage
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    "Is it fair" That is a weighted question and could be drug out for the next decade of UO.

    For your comment on balancing pets, bushido, chiv and ninja. I'm in agreement but you forgot to add necro? But then I'm not a fan of any of the new skills or the 120 skill cap.

    I have to agree with wrekognize, changing a suit to go to tram, or go back to Felucca doesn't make sense to me. Is there a reason why players feel faction gear shouldn't be allowed in Trammel? I am still at a loss for the logic behind the hatred. A faction-eer if traveling to Trammel does not have the same type of setup the Uber Trammel monster killers have. PVP templates differ greatly between the normal Trammel bluebie templates.
     
  23. red sky

    red sky Sage
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    Actually it has made PvP more balanced. Considering even the most ill equipped pvper who always dreamed of getting those inquisitors or ornament can now compete with even the most skilled. Therefore, your argument is void. And the bandages have been fixed and none of the potions are over powered in any way.
     
  24. HunterXHunter

    HunterXHunter Visitor

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    I agree it made the game more balanced. As for faction bandages? They are pretty much worthless now. I tried to do 2 UOA macros one for enhanced bandaids and the other for faction bandaids, but the 15sec timer WILL screw up your taming. I am used to bandages "apply and forget", by miscalculating the timing of a faction aid and apply another one before the 15 second you just dont apply them at all, and sometimes I was waiting for that needed heal just to come to realize that "ohhh it was still on cooldown".

    Firenova pots are situational, and conflag can do pretty much the samething. The crimson color "stam pot" is utterly worthless and it puts a halt on other potions if its still in effect, I will just use red pots.

    Maybe the shrine gem that teleports you after you are "dead" is overpowered?
     
  25. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    LADIES AND GENTLEMEN WE HAVE A FIRST IN A LONG TIME!!! NECRO IS OVERPOWERED!!!

    Magery/necro is probably the only truly balanced skill in the game!

    Non-Factioners can buy a gem of salvation from thieves to insta res, although that res's you at the spot.
     
  26. Why does anyone even care what people in Tram are doing with items that are not affecting them in any way while they are in Fel? If anything they're getting people to hunt in Fel for silver so there's more PK and PvP opportunity with those people, which is part of what the point of introducing them was to begin with.

    Is it more of a "that's my ball and you can't play with it" kind of thing? Because that's what it's sounding like.
     
  27. Snakeman

    Snakeman UO Forum Moderator
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    So it's fair a Tram only player (and there are quite a few) should have to spend a few Mil gp to have a good suit, or spend millions on arti's? Where as a peep who has a 'bud:beer:" in Factions , gets his new guild (can be single or multi peep here, but many single Guilds now) into factions. Buddy gives him the silver (which is farmed so easy it's pathetic) to go out & get his uber faction gear & said newbert never plays a bit of factions but enjoys the great suit he now has for his Tram pvm routine:sword:, while many long time players still can't afford the real deals or even good runic leather/ore gear.... Where is the fairness..? Another Gimme Gimme syndrome all over again. You all complain this game has become gimme gimme, well wtf do you think is going on here? How many complained :rant2:over the given out EM Bows/Sashs "Oh no Joe got one I didn't, boo hoo :sad2:" (those had NO mods & look at the complaining) So how do you think the average player feels on this with faction gear? It's unfair. Keep factions items in Fel not Tram. They were introduced to help Factions which was great, not for Tram wear :talktothehand:. (Besides, most of the Real Faction & Fel players already have their "Other" suits, just wear them when they want to do Events/Peers/Whatever in Tram) My 2.5 cent
     
  28. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    Not to go off topic but I have an answer for you and Lyconis.

    We don't want faction items to be able to be used in Tram for the same reason Reds are not allowed to go to Tram.

    You tell us that if we want to go to Tram we need to be blue, and totally dismiss us when we say what diff does it make if we can go there while red so long as we cant attack anyone.

    Faction items were made for Fel and faction fights, not for people to buff their suits and then go play in Tram.

    Let Reds in Tram and you can use all the faction items you want :danceb:

    And to the others who now say things are more balanced n Fel PvP, I still have to disagree. But it seems that you wont agree with me so we will have to live with our disagreement.

    But the fact is that a person in factions now has a decided advantage against someone who isn't in factions.. and the ease of obtaining that great armor is the proof.
     
  29. Its mainly due to the ones who use level 10 arties, they artificially inflate the required amount of points by faming accounts in different factions, if they ever lose rank, rinse and repeat.

    This makes it harder for actual faction players to maintain rank.
     
  30. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    I so wish they would fix that somehow!! this is the biggest flaw with factions today.
     
  31. I actually don't see why reds shouldn't be allowed in Tram. The system that instituted reds & blues is overly outdated in today's UO. Does that mean that I can use the faction items now? :thumbsup:


    They were introduced to factions in order to both entice more players to join factions and to lure more people to Fel for PvP. They accomplished both goals as there are now more people in factions, and those people are farming silver in Fel and are available to be PK'd, ganked, or whatever else floats your boat. I just don't see why it's such a big deal if those same people go to Tram to do other things and still retain use of the items they had to earn in Fel in one way or another.
     
  32. I saw a suggestion a while back about having th eonly place the war zone bonus works is in the faction strongholds.

    It would be very difficult(not impossible) for players to farm points in any of those places.

    I also think that there should be a wipe of points before this is implimented, but with a 1week bye to acrue points again(fairly). By that i mean that although you can gain points, no one will gain rank for a week and still be able to use all equibable items. After that week the rank is determined.
     
  33. Sure you can, if this idea was implemented al lthe trammies can wear them!!!

    Bear in mind, it would make you fully attackable by opposing factions.
     
  34. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    I'de be open to any change so long as it fixed it. The sad part is that I am sure someone will find a new way to exploit the rank/point system
     
  35. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    I think you answered your own question here. As you said "They were introduced to factions in order to both entice more players to join factions and to lure more people to Fel for PvP. "

    Not for people to get nice armor and then go to Tram with it.

    I honestly wouldn't care either way. But those of us who live and play in Fell get so much grief from the Tram community let alone that even EA treats us like step children, that when we get something that is supposed to be for US in FEL we want to hold it close.

    Tram has more of everything than Fel does by a factor of 10.

    But I tell you what. I will compromise here. Lets allow faction items in Tram, but if they are allowed there, then the Fel faction rules should apply in Tram.. Meaning if you see orange you better run :)
     
  36. They have to do things in Fel in order to get the items to begin with. While they're doing that, they doing exactly what you want them to be doing. What does it matter if they do something else later on?


    This is that "it's my ball and you can't play with it" thing I was talking about.
     
  37. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    Yes, but dont forget it was the Trammies who started the whining in general, and now that some of us in Fel are whining, you ask what does it matter.

    In the end Connor you have nothing to worry about because EA wont change the way it is now.. So you will be able to get the items and use them in Tram to your hearts content.
     
  38. I actually don't use any of the faction items, so I guess it doesn't matter to me either way.
     
  39. If you did, you'd understand about the trammies boosting the amount of points required to use faction artifacts.

    As you dont why do you need to post on the subject? Youve just basically admitted to not having a clue how it affects factioners.
     
  40. It affects the "trammies" that join factions in the same way it affects fellies. They both have to do the same thing to get the same items.


    As of yet, no one has shown any reason why someone that's gone through the process of getting the points and silver can't use them in Tram. They still have to participate in Fel in order to get them.
     
  41. All they do, whis is all they have been doing, is farm points in the same way that the jab shards have 1billion points! they are in fel for maybe an hour or 2 to get enough points to never have to worry again. Then they leave a dragon in the demon room while there of somewere else raking in silver.

    That isnt the fel activity these items were meant to promote...please dont talk like you know the "process" these people go through to get points and silver...you obviously dont!
     
  42. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    I'm fine with faction arties in tram, but make it so I can come take their points in tram!
     
  43. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    EXACTLY!!
     
  44. Yeah, I'm sure that everyone that has faction items exploited to do so. That would include yourself and everyone else that has them going by your logic.


    Again, using your logic, this must be what you and everyone else that has faction items did to get theirs.


    You're right, I don't know how to cheat, and honestly I think that's a good thing. I also don't believe that everyone that has faction items that uses them in Tram got them by cheating. I think more than not got them by following the system the way it was intended, and I see no problem with them using what they earned. I'm sorry that you're so jaded with the UO population to think that everyone else is cheating to get what they have.
     
  45. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    Connor, In all honesty the system forces people to cheat.... er.. "be creative" on getting points. And yes most everyone in factions uses some type of "cheat" to get around the system.




    See above...


    In the end, the faction items were not meant to be for use in Tram. Also if a person almost exclusively plays Tram with a faction char, they are exploiting the system.

    Also the fact that people "can" use them in Tram is a separate issue.

    Maybe if you spent a little time in factions you would understand the problems we are discussing here.