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faction items - just looked into it

Discussion in 'UHall' started by peanutbutter, Dec 25, 2008.

  1. peanutbutter

    peanutbutter Guest

    i know it's christmas and all, but i have to ask:

    why do faction's players get such good items.

    like the fey leggings with better resists and the IR with better resists and the kasa with dci increase:

    here's a picture:

    [​IMG]

    i just don't understand it.

    why? why ruin the money others have invested items just to give out OTHER items to particular players that are the same thing only BETTER?

    i would really like it if there was a great explanation or some sort of fix, like:

    1) they can only wear the armor when fighting other factions
    2) the items are unrepairiable
    3) there is a 1% chance that the items will break completely in battel


    something.

    it just isn't very fare for many of us doom runners to have our market destroyed
     
  2. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    Join faction and try some PvP and experience the stat-loss and you will understand why.

    Back in the days where there's no insurance on anything. Faction gears were the only weapon/armor you can get that's blessed. A lot of people complained about it but they consent to faction they consent to PvP and they are willing to take all the disadvantages that come with it. While you can go out and rez over and over and come back over and over, when they get killed by an opposing factions they are put in stat.

    Before you complain about faction items please try it first.
     
  3. peanutbutter

    peanutbutter Guest

    i have tried it. in this game and in other games (like DAoC... thought it wasn't necessarily "factions")

    i was doing factions when NOBODY was doing factions.

    it still doesn't change the fact that the system should not affect the other part of the game, does it? for example: they should not get better equipment. why have stat loss if you're so godly, you don't experience it very often?

    also, the stat loss should only happen when killed by another faction player, just as ALL the items they use should only benefit them when playing other faction layers.

    simple. let factions be factions. that's the way it was when i did it. it didn't affect the rest of the game (except with regs and such)


    it just doesn't see right that you take an item like the IR that takes like 3 months to spawn and ruin it by allowing people to buy them from vendors for 5,000 silver. that's about 2 mil on many shards. wow. what should be a 20 to 30 mil items has been ruined because you can get a much better one for 2 mil.

    it just doesn't seem right to me, that's all.



    besides, since pub 56, factions has been all but ruined. used to, it was just a few of us doing it because we liked it. now it's a bunch of... well... THOSE people only doing it because they know they can get awesome items and abilities that will allow the to go to yew gate and kill everyone.


    again, give them their goodies. give them their fun stuff, but ALSO give them these 2 balancers:

    1) NO STATE loss when they get killed by non faction members
    2) their uber mods don't work against non-faction players.


    fixed. solved. no problems now.
     
  4. peanutbutter

    peanutbutter Guest

    besides, i don't want to USE the IR's i spend 20+ mil on last year.

    i want to sell them. and now i can't.
     
  5. Inspector

    Inspector Guest

    1- There isn't any stat loss if a blue kills a faction member...
    2-Will never happen.

    Edit

    These items have been around for months... And your complaining now why? Because you can't sell your IR's?
     
  6. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    You overlooked some low life guild using non-faction characters to dismount/hurting faction players so their faction plays can get easy kill and put people in stat. The only fair way you can do it is if a faction player is attacked by a non-faction player and even if they are killed by another faction player a few seconds later it shouldnt put them in stat.

    It will be much complicated to code such a difficult system. And I beg to differ you said faction never affected other aspects of the game. When EVERYONE can get looted when they die, faction players had the access to full suit/weapon BLESSED. You probably have never player the real faction when it was introduced. Blessed items in pre-tram were a HUGE advantage. Factioneers have always been able to get better items than regular gate hoggers. And guess what back in the real pvp/faction days factioneers still DONT go into stat when killed by non-faction players.

    Since AoS item changes and insurance made item bless worth nearly nothing took them awhile to fix faction "incentives".

    So your arguments are flawed.
    Old days, faction has blessed items vs no insurance/no statloss
    Nowdays, faction has better mods vs no skill point requirement/no statloss.

    In short, faction players always had better PvP/PvM advantages over non-faction players since the FIRST DAY factions was ever introduced. But if you started playing UO post-tram you really have no idea.

    Also faction items are a great idea to level the playing field between the haves and have nots. e.g I can never afford to buy your IR and riches like you would always have an advantage over me because I simply cant get the uber items you have. Now I can have it better, and there's nothing you can do about it other than join faction yourself. And who's stopping you?

    Sounds like personal greed is playing a big part in this post.
     
  7. Crysta

    Crysta Babbling Loonie
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    Also, unless i'm wrong, these are all faction items and only keep their stats and blessing for 7 days before reverting to a common, npc-buyable item, meaning you have to repurchase everything once a week.

    So you can have your regular stats items that last a lifetime, or ones you have to replace once a week using silver.
     
  8. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    Actually it's not NPC brought. It's GM made with blessing. Which in terms of weapon a good NDV(NPC default value) weapon can be as good as "of power" weapon. And they do come in a week blessed. But while I can loot everyone's vanq/power weapon when I drop them while I only lose my bandaid/regs if I get killed... I can get so much good items.

    If you are not familiar with NDV, you can go look it up. When pots werent stackable, a high NDV pot can consistant heal for 30 damage, armors with better protection and weapons with better damage.

    Again, when I die I lose nothing, and when they do, I get everything they have. You still cant see the advantage?
     
  9. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    Also I used to rock in full blessed suit with my kick ass supremely acc vanq spear/kryss/katana. If I know I might get ganked and die, I will use my blessed GM spear, if I know the playing field is leveled I will be rocking my super weapon.

    Using the current day analogy. What do you feel when you kill me you get 3600gp and when I kill you I get your full suit and all your weapons?
     
  10. Crysta

    Crysta Babbling Loonie
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    What I meant was the items lose their special stats and such and become a "normal" item, rather than an artifact or enhanced artifact item. I'm referring to that nice list at the beginning of the topic if you aren't quite understanding. The new stuff added with the "war".
     
  11. AesSedai

    AesSedai Guest

    - By the by: it was called VDP (NPC Vendor Determined Pricing - which was eventually the same as player vendor's default pricing - ol' blacksmiths & warriors alike knew/know the term well) & I'm fairly certain factions didn't exist until a few months after Trammel did (so I don't understand how someone that didn't play pre-Tram wouldn't understand anything related to factions).

    As for the rest of the bickering about the value of these new faction items... I believe it may become more clear in time as to why they have been flooding the field with these decaying items (most of which have been significantly illegally dupe-licated over the years). Personally, I'm more curious about the power of the forthcoming Stygian Abyss items.

    Merry Holidays to all!
     
  12. drinkbeerallday

    drinkbeerallday Visitor

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    this is why his logic is flawed and his arguments are just plain wrong. this "theory" is the product of emotions + selfishness.

    there's (slightly) more people playing the game. they are doing champ spawns and making $$ and opening accounts and making new characters and putting together new suits.

    someone will buy the IR gloves.
     
  13. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    Pardon my memory, right its VDP. Also the silver faction blessed items were introduced with the faction system which already existed before tram. It wasnt that easy to get silver compared to nowdays with all the common slayers.

    If anything only thing unfair with the faction items is the bandaid. It has no cooldown and you can remove all negative effects with no requirement. 1 bandaid you can get rid of Strangle + Lethal + Curse + Blood Oath + Omen + Bleed + Mind Rot + Mortal + Pain Spike which is why a good dexer willing to spend the silver and use the bandaids is nearly unkillable by any mage classes.

    I wish they would include more items or make new veriation for factions so they dont have the name and "nearly" identical stats as the classic artifacts at least that why people who whine just because they cant sell their items at amazingly high price tags would have no excuse. yes people will still buy the IRs but you probably cant simply fetch 20+ mill for it.
     
  14. AesSedai

    AesSedai Guest

    - Nah, still don't think so (could be wrong, but I just don't remember towns being controllable until there were 2 instances of each ~ Trammel/Felucca).

    Looking at uo.com it appears as though Ren came out around April and factions didn't arrive until December 2000. I joined factions the day it came out. I'm really feeling like it came out after Trammel did & after an initial search I haven't seen anything saying it happened otherwise.
     
  15. Omnius

    Omnius Crazed Zealot
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    This is a simple explanation for the newer people. Consider it definitive.

    The highest barrier to most players interested in pvp is access to hundreds of millions in high end items. These items have been made progressively easier to obtain but they are still very difficult for a casual player or a newer player interested in seeing the whole game not just the grind.

    These items come with limitations. requirements of rank, heightened risk, stat loss and they are only for the faction character. They are better than regular artis but not so much as to massively unbalance the game. Most of the high end artis have remained in similar prices despite the complaints of easily accessable faction artis.

    As per when factions came out? They came out almost a year or two after trammel did though the first information on factions was released prematurely in the UO:R booklet.
     
  16. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    All faction items were good ideas except for the faction bandaids.

    The new arties are great. I put over 150 mil into my mage suit before faction arties came but I'm not complaining. I still play a couple non-faction guys.

    The new arties make it possible for players to make a high end suit without a huge investment, which is what we need for PvP to get new players to try it.

    I also like that I can make a completely independent suit for every one of my characters. All you need is 16k silver and 3 horned kits to make a suit for any given template.

    What needs to happen is make it so the trammies can't farm points for their never-go-to-fel characters. That's why the market is destroyed. They make trial accts and farm up just enough points to maintain rank to wear the items but never go to fel otherwise. This makes them able to have the high end items with no risk and they don't have to spend mils on your items.

    The solution is very simple. Extend faction PvP to trammel. They will get so sick of dying to real factioners that they will quit and will have to replace their faction arties with real arties.
     
  17. HD2300

    HD2300 Certifiable
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    The new faction items are a bold strategy to retain 85% of subscribers by removing content and rewards from them. If you thought Doom and Peerless were a pointless and meaningless grind, there is no doubt now.
     
  18. EDA_GL

    EDA_GL Journeyman
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    Hows about having the sigs in a specific towns control mean something? IE
    The arties will only give the full benefit when team A (minax for example) controls all the towns....
    If people will cry about all the towns, then at least make it 5 or more. You "benefit" from controlling a town currently, but this will give more incentive for keeping/holding the sigs!!! That is what factions was meant to be???
     
  19. DuttyD

    DuttyD Guest

    They are obviously trying to bribe you to come to factions.

    Factions, if active on your shard are fun to play, and I hate UO pvp since AoS
     
  20. peanutbutter

    peanutbutter Guest

    it's also the simple fact that i'm not into PvP anymore.

    i'm a vendor.

    i have a thief and several crafters.

    like i've said before with fletching: the HW kits are too hard to get.

    also, you should never be able to loot a bow from a monster that is better than a bow i can make

    further, you should never be able to buy an item (because you're in factions) that is better than one i can only get 5 times a year (if i'm lucky). especially not one you can use in PvP, PvM, and all that

    in UO, you can PvP, you can PvM, or you can play the market. these items hurt the market.


    i posted once tha there should be thief items that are basically stealables that spawn in every dungeon that are like the arties, but missing one random mod. everybody said "bad idea" because "there are already too many 'uber' items in the game".

    well, what's the difference?

    yes, i played factions. and back then it was faction vs faction. not faction players with the best items in the game that they got for pennies on the dollar sitting at yew gate killing everybody else NOT in factions.


    i don't feel bad about wanting to make money. i have maybe 50 mil to my name. i'd like more. but my valuable items are no longer of value.

    i just wish they were. that's all. that way, i could continue to play the game in the way i like to play it. as a merchant.
     
  21. peanutbutter

    peanutbutter Guest

    i have characters that would be great in factions. i have a kickin mage and a thief and a baller archer.

    but i don't have time to deal with HAVING to be on all the time killing people... and that's what many factions groups REQUIRE you to do.

    i was even told by one factions guy that ALL my characters had t be in his guild and that i HAD to play at least 20 hours per week.

    this is my game. period. i won't be told i have to play it a particular way just to be in someone's faction guild.
     
  22. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    If this is the reason you don't like the new artifacts, the simple answer is the market was already destroyed when they added the point system for Doom Bosses. It really isn't worth spending so much time down there even if you do have a much better chance. The most expensive artifact is the Ornament, which goes for ~10 million. Many go for 1 million or less. You can make the gold much quicker via other means and purchase exactly what you want.
     
  23. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    What he is saying is, that because the changes don't benefit his play style they are bad changes.
     
  24. peanutbutter

    peanutbutter Guest

    god. like i'm the only one who likes vending. are you telling me that nobody would play factions if they couldn't get these items? is that what you're saying? are you saying that they are necessary?

    and arties don't sell (on my shard) for the prices the other guy said. the orni is 12-24 mil and the HoM is a good 5 mil... the HH is 2 to 3, the SoT is 5 to 6, etc, etc.

    still, the FACT is that faction players have elite items that give them an advantage over other players. this should not be so. neither should they receive stat loss for being killed by non-faction players (red or blue). the faction items should only be able to be used in faction scenarios.

    leave the rest of us out of it.
     
  25. peanutbutter

    peanutbutter Guest

    can you sell these factions items?

    do they run out?

    can they be repaired?

    do they say "faction item" or something on them?
     
  26. HD2300

    HD2300 Certifiable
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    His play style is the play style of 85% of subscribers in UO. That is why it is a bad change. Who wants a normal crystalline ring when they can get a uber FCR 3 one.

    Think about it. How would it effect champs if 125 powerscrolls dropped as loot on each horde minion in Haven? Effectively that is what has happened with Doom and Peerless for 85% of subscribers in UO.