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Faction Items Thoughts

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Violence, Oct 3, 2008.

  1. Violence

    Violence Lore Keeper
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    What a mess.. We asked for a reason to be in Factions.. And they made them OPed like nothing else I've seen in this game.

    At least, if those items are used to attack non-Faction characters they should be INSTANTLY unequipped.

    That, or give us items only non-Faction characters can wear to balance it out. No, scratch that. Just forget the items.

    GIVE THEM REAL REASONS TO GO IN FACTIONS INSTEAD OF BLACKMAILING THE *REST* OF US TO EITHER PARTICIPATE OR BE LEFT M*I*L*E*S BEHIND IN TERMS OF ITEMS.

    LOLWTF EA?!?! :coco: :sad4:
     
  2. phantus

    phantus Stratics Legend
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    I'm holding out judgement yet. Say, for example, they use this in conjuction with more to come. Imagine a part of the new SA dungeon that only factions can enter.

    With 19 total items it could make it an fast way for many to get geared out for pvp.

    I idea could have potential I believe. Whether or not they use it is another story altogether.
     
  3. Sneaky Que

    Sneaky Que Babbling Loonie
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    Patience is a virtue.

    ...unfortunately, not in UO.
     
  4. Satanatra

    Satanatra Guest

    The items only make it easier to reach the caps. The caps havent changed. If you are a tram player and dont want to fight uber decked out factions players then you can stay in Tram and never worry about it. You can buy silver off vendors, join a faction so that you can use it, and then enjoy all the benefits of the items in tram without ever having to worry about pvp.

    If you dont like pvp, the items wont affect you.
    If you dont like factions, the items wont affect you.
    If you want the items but you still dont want to pvp, that is possible to do.

    Cry some more without thinking things out...
     
  5. The items aren't much to worry about... it's the faction bandaids that remove curses and heal which will ultimately nerf necros and mages significantly pvp wise.
     
  6. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    WoW faction bandaids do that? Damn dexers are getting another boost.
     
  7. Violence

    Violence Lore Keeper
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    Patience is a virtue even in UO which is why some of us are bearing with the game for the last 4 years instead of enjoying the game.

    I'd hold judgement but this already feels like a very bad change the way(and time at which) it's implemented- if they have more coming, they should release it all in a different order so that this change won't have so much of an impact. Too late.

    "The caps haven't changed."

    Exactly. It's only far too easy to reach them now with just a couple of those items and leave free slots for items you'd otherwise not wear but always wanted them, understand? It's too great an advantage. If they caps are changed, they should be changed to LOWER.

    "If you don't like PvP, the items won't affect you."

    I do(may I add, unfortunately). So there.

    "If you don't like factions, the items won't affect you."

    People wearing them will fight people who don't.

    "If you want the items but you still don't want to PvP, that is possible to do."

    Just release them to the public so everyone can get them. There should never be items that REQUIRE you to join a play-style.
    For instance 120 Powescrolls? While they are in Fel, you are not REQUIRED to PvP to get them. You might get jumped, MIGHT. That's a RISK.
    These items? YOU HAVE TO JUMP OTHERS, AND GET JUMPED to get them.
    This is elitism at its worse.

    This is, most of all.. TOTALLY abusable. I'll join my gimp Archer to score Silver, get a heap of the items and use them on a Faction char that only kills non-faction people. Set her up with a load of those bandies, the PoP to fix my stuff.. And make uber-suits. So easy to max EVERY SINGLE PROPERTY now.

    Again, ABUSABLE TO NO END.

    "Cry some more without thinking things out..."

    Flame some more.
     
  8. Traveller

    Traveller Guest

  9. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    Oh sinse when do a player have to join Faction to go to Felucca, maybe he go there to PvM or do mining and lumbering. I don't mind factions to have some great stuff to use for faction and vs other factions players but if you don't think PvP goes on between faction and non factions players, then you are wrong.

    Wrong, Wrong, Wrong

    If I'm attacked of a faction player, it do effect me as he will have an unfair advantage!
    I don't like factions but it will affect me as I do get attacked of factions players.
    No I don't want the items, I just don't want overpowered enemies. If the bonus on the items only works against other faction players it will be all fine, just like a faction player don't get stat loss if I kill him.

    Did you think at all?
     
  10. D'Amavir

    D'Amavir Guest

    Thinking things out? You mean like not thinking about the fact that factions players can and do fight non faction players? Advantage, faction players. How about the fact that you need to be a certain level in factions to get these items? So, non faction players are forced to not only join factions and get silver, they are also forced to take part in factions to gain the levels needed for the item.

    People like you seem to confuse pvp with factions. The two are not the same. Many many people pvp without being in factions. The simple fact that the devs felt the need to force people into factions with this change shows that to be true. I don't play factions, at all. But I do support factions as a playstyle that should be supported and encouraged. However, a major change like this is not the way to do it. No one should be forced into any playstyle. This is forcing.

    As someone mentioned, powerscrolls can be earned through pvm (with a risk of pvp certainly), through pvp (by raiding scroll carriers) or gold (by buying scrolls from others that either pvp'd to get them or pvm'd to get them. Its not a perfect system to be sure. But it at least offers options. Forcing people into factions is not the answer to improving factions. Improving factions is the answer to improving factions.
     
  11. D'Amavir

    D'Amavir Guest

    I don't say this to you much, but I totally agree with you. Giving factions a boost is fine. Giving factions a major boost that negatively impacts non faction players is not fine.
     
  12. Splup

    Splup Guest

    Well, I think it's nice their giving us a reason to be in factions. All we'v got for it so far is Faction horse.

    I honestly think this is great.

    Those items don't even seem too overpowered to me. Everything is capped, so those items just make building suit a bit easier, but you won't be able to make a suit that would be too overpowered compared to other suits.

    Like that 25 DCI glasses, I have on my mages suit 65 DCI atm,but with those glasses I might change my quiver to fire resist cloak.

    Or with MR 3 ornament I could maybe change one MR piece to HPI piece or something (Since after like 8-9mr it's waste). A little benefit but nothing uber.

    AND PEOPLE, WE GET 20 MINUTES LOSS WHEN WE DIE ;) So I think this is a great add Risk vs Reward. If you take a chance of getting 20 min loss, you get a chance to get better items. That's why those items should stay on even when you attack someone who's not in factions. They have no risk... And people saying "you don't get loss if I kill you" Yeah, but usually no matter where, despice or YEW etc. There's also factioneers attacking me.

    And how could those items make suit so uber? I mean most of people are already using suits with most mods capped. So you can still make a suit as good as factioneers suit, just need more gold to do it.

    Also what I find quite funny, is that some people who has been telling me "Make one urself!" when I have whined about archers being overpowered. "If mage is crap compared to archer make an archer! You need to adapt!" Now these same guys are whining about this... All I can say to them is "Like you said, adapt and join faction..." Well, I don't personally think this makes factioneer overpowered like I said before in this post. But I quess these archers are so worried if there's a slight chance someone could have an even chance to fight em.

    Except those bandages removing curses made me almost close my account already... Like archers weren't overpowered already. Here's what one dexer on our shard said about this:

    Gotta hope those bandies don't heal at all.

    EDIT: Some guys are saying that those will not heal, I hope they are right
     
  13. I think...

    It won't draw people to factions (or at least not for long) because they haven't removed the penalties. 3 mr on my orny isn't going to make me forget I have to wait 20 mins after every death. If people needed 3 mr they'd use the ankh pendant already - most don't.

    It will bring average dexxers up to the level of the best dexxers as how good they are is mainly in what they have equipped. This isn't a dexxer bash but two dexxers fighting comes down to mods vs mods, it will barely affect casters as their fights are spellplay vs spellplay. A max everything dexxer vs a max everything caster will have a property advantage (hld vs no hla), and an offense/healing advantage as spells are interuptable and bandages and swings aren't. All in all it will widen the gap between dexxers and casters in the dexxers favour - tamer dexxers will probably be the most common template.

    Atm I play both casters and dexxers. I probably won't join factions.
     
  14. Gwendar-SP

    Gwendar-SP Guest

    The faction items will affect EVERYONE in Fel and you can bet that they will be used to murder non faction players.
     
  15. Violence

    Violence Lore Keeper
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    "Those items don't even seem too overpowered to me. Everything is capped, so those items just make building suit a bit easier.."

    Not just a bit I'm afraid. Exactly because everything's capped, and these items making reaching caps easier with fewer slots.

    "Like that 25 DCI glasses, I have on my mages suit 65 DCI but with those glasses I might change my quiver to fire resist cloak. Or with MR 3 ornament I could maybe change one MR piece to HPI piece or something. A little benefit but nothing uber."

    See? You say it yourself. Now add the Carapace. Or if you're an Archer, add that crazy Totem.. LOL. Bit by bit, item by item, you free up slots to build uber suits out of thin air. Literally.

    "AND PEOPLE, WE GET 20 MINUTES LOSS WHEN WE DIE ;) So I think this is a great add Risk vs Reward. If you take a chance of getting 20 min loss, you get a chance to get better items."

    You Factioneers go on have fun in your micro-environment. I don't want your items in my backyard so to say. Take your rewards and risks and lock them inside that micro-environment is all I ask.
    Even insurance is more permanent "loss" than your Stats in Factions. Park the character, chat on guild. Make coffee. Browse. Done. Not like you don't play for hours on end.
    To be honest? You take the loss FOR BEING in the Factions. BEING in them is your choice, the reward being the FUN. Not having fun? Quit.
    Or should I advocate for ARTIFACTS FOR BEING RED? Cuz I am freely attackable and such? LOL.

    "That's why those items should stay on even when you attack someone who's not in Factions. They have no risk... And people saying "You don't get loss if I kill you" Yeah, but usually no matter where, Despice or YEW etc. There's also Factioneers attacking me."

    I don't think that BECAUSE YOU MIGHT encounter a Factions enemy those items should be used against non-Faction chars. Just watch where you hunt. Or retreat. How hard is that, in the open environment UO offers..

    "And how could those items make suit so uber? I mean most of people are already using suits with most mods capped. So you can still make a suit as good as Factioneers suit, just need more gold to do it."

    It's not about the amount of gold you'll spend. It's about freeing up item slots to add EVEN MORE PROPERTIES from items you would NORMALLY have no room to use. I mean... 25% DCI on a single item with THOSE RESISTANCES?.... There was a reason Fey Legs weren't having high resists for example. Think about it please.

    "Now these same guys are whining about this... All I can say to them is "Like you said, adapt and join Faction..."

    This is not a matter of adapting. It is a matter of participating in a whole SYSTEM not just running a kind of template. Playing a char you don't like until they fix things < Participating in a PERMANENT system to benefit FROM A PERMANENT addition(the items). With NO work-around.

    "But I quess these archers are so worried if there's a slight chance someone could have an even chance to fight 'em."

    You think I'm mainly an archer because I said I'd join my gimp to score silver EASILY and hoard the items for my MAIN, so she can fight non-Faction players with an unfair ADVANTAGE...? ;)

    "Those bandages removing curses made me almost close my account already... Like archers weren't overpowered already."

    You know what's funny, I don't even use bandies on my MAIN. Now I'll have to start.. And you're totally right about Archery.

    "A max dexxer vs a max caster will have a property advantage and an offense/healing advantage as spells are interuptable and bandages and swings aren't. Tamer dexxers will probably be the most common template."

    What's stopping a mage to use SC weapons with HLD/HLA?.. You said "MAX" caster too, so 65% DCI yes? There.
    Plus mage = permanently disarming your opponent with him not being able to rid of your disarming weapon, meaning your FISTS.
    Parry? You can get it. DCI, you have it. Disarming method? Check. Pots? Check. Apples? Check. Bolas? Check.

    Swings MISS, weapons get disarmed, blows can get parried..
    Spells get interrupted(RARELY the healing spells).
    Pretty much fair. Plus spells = Range, and spells = Best healing in-game. You can stop someone with bandages by timing In Nox plainly. Now if they too use pots, that's the game's problem, not the dexxers.
    And Mage Vs. Archer takes RNG favour, that's all. Just heal, find a gap between shots, wear them down. Disarm. Stuffz. You know it better, I just tell you what I see Mages doing Vs. Archers and honestly I don't understand where your problem is. You fare a lot better than Dexxers do, against them.

    I mean, you nullify 100 points in Poisoning for free with a pot... Heh. That's imba for example.

    And the argument about those items being suited for warriors?.. C'mon, first off they haven't finished their list. Second, ALL MAGES USE FOLDED STEEL. AND MOST USE CARAPACE AND ORNIE ALREADY.. ;PpP Says something.

    You all afraid of those bandies? I'm afraid of what will be added for Archers after this uber Spirit Of Totem. Cuz they all use this one already. Now it will boost their resistances too, great stuffz.

    **** sake.
    EA, you're mad.
    As said.. I'll vote with my card if they don't think this over BEFORE IT EVEN GOES ON PRODUCTION SHARDS. :sad4: My guild is already a bit torn on this subject anyway.
     
  16. The_Dude_

    The_Dude_ Journeyman
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    Splurp im not even sure you read the thread. People arent concerned about you fighting other factions with these new items and they can get them to. Which is also HOW U GO INTO STAT.

    If you wnat to use this crap against normal people thats fine. Make it so that anytime a faction person dies they go into stat. How does that sound? You can use ur new items against non faction people w/o any fear of the faction stat loss. As if you die you dont go into stat. So change it to if you die to anyone your in stat and you can keep your new items.
     
  17. Satanatra

    Satanatra Guest

    This helps more people get to the caps ----> more people at the caps means more parity ------> this pushes pvp back to experience and player skill = something people have been complaining about since AOS.


    People on Uhall will complain no matter what osi does. thats a proven fact. Im not surprised by the complains all over. Im just disgusted.
     
  18. No it'd be 70 DCI (HLD is -25... 45 + 25 = 70). Nothing stops them using it (it being the sc weps) apart from if thats now a requirement then wrestling/defensive wrestling is no longer a viable option. Unless their putting in some glasses or gloves with HLA.

    Hmm not quite, that would involve being a wrestle mage which as you pointed out above just got nerfed. Or if disarmed with a weapon would involve using tactics which would mean they would be unable to use your next point...

    Pots aren't exclusive to mages, most don't have the ability to disarm atm & without HLA gloves/glasses I can't see many getting it.

    Yeah but no one ever died from being outhealed. Everyones now a wrestle parry mage? With the dex requirement? Spell damage won't be up to much then with low int.

    Archery = range & hit spell & hit debuff & special.

    When it's a dexxer getting heal blocked it's the games problem but when it's a mage getting interupted it's the mages problem?

    Plus, it gets resisted most of the time (don't forget as you put everyone on parry wrestle mages no one can omen anymore).

    Anyone can.

    The folded steels yeah, rbc nope, most mages are using aof atm. Most dexxers use rbc's. Mages use orny's yeah but they don't really need the extra mr, where as put it on a 4/6 chiv dexxer...
     
  19. Splup

    Splup Guest

    What mods you still want to add to your suit? Most archers already have HCI, DCI, LMC, EP, 10-20 HPI, MR and dmg inc. All they can add is prolly rest of that HPI. Mages can prolly add extra MR or HPI. I think this just gives fair chance for bit poorer people to get their suit nerer the level of uber rich players. (Like large red guilds farming champs spawns like my guild used to do) Problem also is that they have already build that uber suit, so do they bother making new one just for few % more intensity? Maybe. Also you need the rank to use the item, so if you lose your rank, you need to make your suit again, if you have build it on some high end faction item.

    I don't want people who can just rez up and be back in the fight in 15 seks to my backyard?... Tbh, I think there should be like 10min statloss for reds. If there was 20min statloss for reds, you would still be saying "You take the loss FOR BEING red. BEING red is your choice, the reward being the FUN. Not having fun? Quit."

    I don't think that BECAUSE YOU MIGHT encounter Factions character those items should not be used against non-Faction chars. Just watch where you hunt. Or retreat. How hard is that, in the open environment UO offers.. How does that sound? :scholar:

    When you think archers are getting fixed? I don't know what you mean by no work-around, but getting high rank in factions can be a lot of work.

    I don't know what character you play. And I'm not trying to throw any personal insults.. Im here just to discuss and try get you to see my point of view, like you are trying to get me see your point of view. It's a discussion where opinions argue, not the people I think ;)
     
  20. Kaleb

    Kaleb Lore Master
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    You all miss the point. It will be based on a rank system. dosnt matter if you have trillbillgizillion silver unless you pvp and earn rank the higher end arties wont be available to use. most people will be in the rank 1-3 area where only a handfull will be in the top ranks.
     
  21. Violence

    Violence Lore Keeper
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    The_Dude_ : Totally agree. They wanna wear those items against normal people? Statloss on death. As said, they gotta take that crap and lock it in their mini-game.

    --

    Satanatra : No it doesn't because not ALL PEOPLE wanna go Factions. No it doesn't push people back to experience and skill. Just forth into new items and more gimped characters. Wait to see the rest of the items, I'm sure we'll be rubbing our eyes.

    Already the new Crimson is OVER THE TOP. Parry Mage much easier anyone?..

    If they wanna push us back to skill they can use the 150.0 Skill scrolls idea so they narrow down templates and people need to team up and stuff. And need lesser mods on their suits while at it. Tons of ideas, and they picked the worse one to push us to player-skill PvP according to you? Doubt it. They just ****ed up real good once more.

    Tell me again please, WHY do I HAVE to go Factions? If they want us back to pure PvP just allow those items FOR EVERYONE. End of argument really. :coco:

    You are so hard-core on this change as Ricco is on insurance and item breaking.. Just because you are or want an excuse to jump, into Factions. :loser:
    So what disgusts me, is the one-sidedness of some peoples' viewpoint.

    --

    Kaleb : 19 items total means wide array for all ranks, of uber items. Again, did you see the Totem and the Crimson and Carapace? Or the Folded Steels?... Gimme a break. And the people that will ZERG the Factions just to be able to bash non-Faction guys will make sure MORE PEOPLE raise in the ranks.
    Even if I am WRONG in that last part, THEN I GUESS IT'S MORE ELITISM EVEN THAN I THOUGHT if only a few guys get the items per Faction.
    Do you even have any idea what kind of abuses and exploits will suddenly rise? Not to mention duped Silver? What a LOL situation.

    You fail to understand that are other ways to ENTICE PEOPLE TO PVP, IN AND OUT OF FACTIONS, THAN ADDING OPed ITEMS!! Please think this over.

    PS : Satanatra you're on Europa, Archer using Mace/Shield and a Balanced bow if I am not mistaken. In a very known guild which I cannot name... ;P It says it all. Prolly just a gimp looking for a REASON to enter Factions. REASON being more gimpness and not FUN(as it should be). At least you seem like you PvP.
     
  22. Der Rock

    Der Rock Guest

    Questions:

    1. is this the answer of supply and demand?
    2. is this the answer for cummunity association?
    3. is this a kind of balance??
    4. is this the way to bring back crafter? imbuing?
    5. is this a new mixed-economy?

    i think its more like a " fell is empty, so let start to abandoned tram now"
    that´s what i call smart
    mythic, i am slightly confused, ( am i ?)
     
  23. Splup

    Splup Guest

    So now you gotta waste just 50 statpoints instead of 55? Not to mention biggest loss is that parrymage can't kill **** with that spell dmg so their not a problem. I could also say that one-sidedness about you mate...
    [/quote]

    Did the guys with vinecords or do the few guys with Rampart shield have uber duper overpower? Blah, Didnt even notice the difference really when vinecords were removed... Duped silver? You do nothing with silver if you don't have the rank, and if more people in factions, harder getting high rank gets. And why would anyone dupe silver when they can dupe valorite hammers and sell em and use the money for silver and all other things they can?

    And could you name few exloits and abuses those unlock for people?
     
  24. Violence

    Violence Lore Keeper
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    Splup :

    Bit here, bit there. Gives you a nice total with a Bless. Saves you loads in the long run with the right items equipped. AND YOU WILL EQUIP the right items because ALL THE REST OF THE FACTION ARTIES will open up SLOTS for you for replacement... Just helping you figure it out. :loser:

    Parry/Mage apparently CAN kill ****. In fact 2-3 of the MOST succesfull Mage templates in Yew on my server are Parry/Mages with full DCI. I think if you are on Europa you know who I'm talking about although he barely logged this week.

    How am I one-sided?
    Cuz I don't wanna Faction but I also don't like elitism?
    Cuz I suggest that your items don't affect my GAMEPLAY STYLE?
    Cuz I suggest you start taking statloss against ALL targets like TheDude said?..

    Vinecords made a difference in the same sense. They allowed people to remove armour parts for others. These items do EVEN MORE than that.
    So yeah on some templates people were forced to swap items when their sandals got screwed. That cost them a bit here and there. Let me repeat. THESE ITEMS DO MORE THAN JUST ADD RESISTANCES. The Vinecords didn't have 15% HCI did they..?

    You're right they'd just go for the hammers, silly me.
    I cannot name what could possibly be conceived by someone INTO DISCOVERING EXPLOITS. I am SURE however people will find a way to increase their ranks painlessly, same for silver. Then they can buy whatever they like from the Fact Arties.
     
  25. D'Amavir

    D'Amavir Guest

    Giving certain people better items that most other people won't ever be able to get is not helping the item issue. Its making it worse. How many people that go to Fel now to do some hunting will continue to do so when they come up against the faction players that are geared out so much that non faction players don't have a chance against them?

    I really can't imagine this being done accidently. This looks like a sly way to kill Fel altogether so they can get rid of it. Sad really. But it seems true for sure.
     
  26. Cynic

    Cynic Journeyman
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    I used to play factions on my archer and used "I honor thee" frequently. My archer and smith were both highest ranked in the faction I was in. People not only will start selling silver at absurd prices but they will also be selling "I honor thee" rank increases as well.

    I am unsure if they are incorporating the title positions like sherrifs or the commading lords into the equation here to get uber-er items. If they are then it will only take a handful of people with a few accounts to control the voting process and keep the higher end items to themselves.

    Keep in mind, it only takes 4 guilds to keep the items on lockdown. If a guild controls a faction, voting specifically, then the CL can keep silver on lockdown thus limiting the availability to any noob who wants to join factions and get suited overnight. At least people will have to look elsewhere for silver.
     
  27. Splup

    Splup Guest

    I would still like to know what those extra mods I can get to my suit are? Like I said, most of HC PvPrs already have all the mods they need. All you can get is few more HPI or MR. Well, not all mages have 65 DCI suits like I do, but I see nothing wrong with giving mages a little bone. Even thou I'm having a feeling people hit me as often as when I had 35 DCI. But that can be just a feeling...

    I'm totally rdy to take statloss against all targets if they add statloss for reds too.

    And about that elitism. Like I said, most HC players already have the mods they need. This could give poorer people a chance to get a bit extra to their mods. I don't really see a problem with high end players, I see this more as giving a little chance for poorer also.

    To be honest I know two players who have been good with parry mages, and other one of them is my guildmate. What made him being able to play it so good was that he had dropped resist for inscription, and people didnt realize that.

    One thing that occurred to me also is that what about if reds could not join factions. This way blues could not be attacked with faction items, and reds would have the no loss chance as their benefit. But well, that will never happen. I have a red char but for some reason I don't think reds belong to factions. But that's just my opinion.

    Sicklover, I don't want to see factioneers being able to kill anyone they want and being super overpowered against others. Especially when there's reds in factions. I would like to see more blues coming from tram to Fel, and I think this is one way to maybe get them. And I really don't see these items giving such a boost for hc PvPrs, since they already have those uber suits. But still makes playing factions more fun ;)
     
  28. Vexxed

    Vexxed Certifiable
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    OK.... so the proposed new factions items look very familar...... I'm pretty sure there was a thread in UOHall somewhere with theose very proposed items as suggestions... I looked around for awhile and coudnl't find it though so does anyone know where it is?

    Thx
     
  29. Cynic

    Cynic Journeyman
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    I just got the best solution.

    How to keep these artis fair to the entire community:

    Right now if a faction player kills someone from their own faction, i.e. Blue SL kills Red SL, that blue takes a blow to his/her score ultimately effecting rank as well.

    They should make it apply to attacking non-faction members as well. This won't totally rule out faction members attacking non-factioners but it will make alot of them not do so. It's like blues with 4 counts, they normally won't gank if it means there is a chance of turning red.

    Faction players won't openly attack non-faction players out of fear of losing point,rank, and then ultimately those pretty new items.

    Fair I think. This keeps the PvP segregated but still allows for this addition and another reason for people to join and PvP in factions.
     
  30. Traveller

    Traveller Guest

    Stat loss for any death might be a good thing to rebalance. But that exclude siege. Or just allow to bind a single item, so that being in factions gives an edge and nothing more.
     
  31. Splup

    Splup Guest

    Being able to have just 1 faction item sounds nice to me also. We don't know if it's already planned like that.
     
  32. Lord Sir Scott

    Lord Sir Scott Lore Keeper
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    If i was asked today what UO's Plan was i would guess that sooner or later factions will be the only way to PVP. It just seems like that is where all this is heading...
    Factions was the replacement of order chaos if i recall...Before Trammel.


    Thus this will be able to allow people to visit Felluca safely...Trammes to come to Champs Spawns and not get ganked maybe.

    Sorta Like a Tram Rule set in Felluca but Factions may pvp...

    Shrugs.... Just my thought...
     
  33. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    The situation with Factions is a catch 22. If they put in rewards that no one wants, people won't play factions (which is happening now). If they put in rewards people want, other people are going to complain about having to PVP (such as the creator of this topic). So it comes down to who they are going to listen to. There is no compromise in this situation.
     
  34. D'Amavir

    D'Amavir Guest

    There actually is a compromise. Anything that can make factions more enjoyable for faction players while not making non faction players disadvantaged. Its not really hard, then again, apparently it is. Much like the poorly run corporations in America that have the 'lets just throw money at it' mentality, EA has the 'lets just throw uber items at it' mentality. What ever happened to depth of content? Balance? Playing a game for the enjoyment of playing it instead of for the overwhelming addiction to boosted items?

    This isn't really directed at you, but at the people behind UO that think that something like this is a good idea while thinking nothing at all about balance issues or non unbalancing additions instead.
     
  35. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    Anything that would make Factions more fun and rewarding is going to compete with PvM and Crafting. There is just no way around it. About the only thing that can be rewarded is item properties or statistics. Those directly affect PvM. Plus why shouldn't someone who takes the time to participate in Factions not be able to use their rewards anywhere they want? It is the whole point of being rewarded. If you can only use this stuff for Factions then it won't be much fun. Imagine if your 120 skills only worked in Felucca. Now that is something people would get upset about.
     
  36. BbqLou

    BbqLou Visitor

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    For once I agree with Link!
     
  37. BbqLou

    BbqLou Visitor

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    I don't see what the big deal is, Most of the people who are complaining don't even PvP, so it will not affect them at all, Do you people honestly need ANY of these items to fight lady mel? The answer is NO.

    People are making a big deal out of nothing, saying OH well someone will just join a faction and buy the item and never participate in factions, I am pretty sure they said the items are going to be ranked meaning if you don't have a certain amount of kills then you can't get the item. So you will have to fight to get the elite items.

    But really are the items really worth all of this crying?

    1. You have to get to a certain rank to get the item and once there you can still lose that rank so not like once you get the item it is yours forever.

    2. If you die to an apposing faction member you will be in stat loss, are the items really worth the risk of not being able to pvp 100% for like 20 mins? (gets really annoying)

    3. People who got the items earned it, if you think it is unfair, then just go join a faction and get one for yourself.

    I don't feel like killing 500 lady mels to get a crimson but you do not hear me crying how unfair it is that I have to do a lady mel to get a crimson.
     
  38. D'Amavir

    D'Amavir Guest

    Thats a flawed comparison. The whole purpose, supposedly, of these changes is to make people play factions. Not just give some people some new pixel crack, but to encourage them play factions. Playing factions should be the reward of those playing factions. It should be made enjoyable. It should allow you to earn rewards to use while you play in factions. It should encourage those that don't currently play in factions to try it out. It should not place those that choose not to play in factions at a disadvantage as this idea does.

    Using faction rewards to battle others and their factions rewards? Great! Good idea. But using faction rewards to place those that don't want/enjoy factions at a disadvantage? Not great.

    As it seems now, those that know how to game the faction system and get quick rank and silver will be able to gear up and slaughter those that don't play factions. That's not a reward for playing factions, that's a punishment for not playing factions.

    Reward, yes. Punish, no.

    If people can't think of any way to improve factions than to add some uber items that people with will be able to manhandle those without then maybe they should just go back to the drawing board until they can.

    I guarantee you, if this change goes in as planned, the amount of scripting and bug using in factions will jump exponentially. The amount of duping of silver will jump exponentially. And the amount of players in UO will decrease. Anytime you force someone to do something or suffer for it, those someones will look elsewhere for a place that doesn't force them into something they don't want to do.
     
  39. D'Amavir

    D'Amavir Guest

    I don't pvp much myself, if at all, no. However, I do interact with many people that do. I rp with guilds full of people that both pvp and rp. If a change comes into the game that drives those people away, as this change can and will, do you honestly not see how that will impact me? This isn't a single player game. The whole concept is to interact with multiple players. If those players are all driven away in some flawed attempt to make people do something they clearly don't want to do, people suffer.

    As for not wanting to kill Mel to get a crimson, if only they came up with some way for people to use little gold colored items to buy those little crimson colored items then all sides could benefit. If only, huh?
     
  40. Cynic

    Cynic Journeyman
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    All I do is PvP, however, I don't find factions appealing.

    Ever heard of "I honor thee"? This allows my friend to do all the killing and then bestow kill points to me so that I don't have to do anything but purchase and wear the new items. So, no, I technically don't need to fight at all.

    "I honor thee"

    With the lifting of 1 faction char per account this is no longer a valid point. I can put each of my guys in factions and have continuous play time, this being because i have 2 accounts. So the stat loss is not really a big deal to me.

    Earned it? You call someone that spills their points onto a mule so that they don't lose them over time earning it? Look at the faction standing, some chars are mules because players unload their faction points onto mules so that they don't lose them all. This is going to allow multiple players to continue wearing these new items even if they continuously die. There are numerous players who "bank" their points like this. If the devs cleared all points and took away the power to bestow your points to someone else then you might have a valid arguement.

    How is this unfair? EVERYONE has to do lady's mels or a peerless in order to get a crimson or you guy buy one yourself. The faction artis, however, cannot be sold or aquired ANY other way other than joining a faction and being FORCED to PvP in faction warfare. The devs are not giving PvPers an OPTION for these artis. The crimson cincture has multiple OPTIONS for ANY player to acquire. Whether you do lady mels, solo DH, or purchase them.
     
  41. wrekognize

    wrekognize Guest

    The problem is that we were looking for a reason to join factions. Not so that we could get UBER artifact items that overpower every item in the game. Give us a real reason to join factions!!! involve the virtue system some how. Add items that are not going to unbalance the game to the degree these will. We are seeing a trend of increased properties on items over the years. Give us content, not a temporary solution.


    ...
     
  42. BbqLou

    BbqLou Visitor

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    Agreed. I'd rather them make it "fun" rather then just add a few items, but I guess I will take what I can get!
     
  43. Viquire

    Viquire Crazed Zealot
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    If I had to make a guess I'd say it looks like these artifacts were placed in this system to counterbalance a large influx recently of uber powered ver and val hammer crafted armor, possibly.

    I kinda figure once we begin to feel the effects of imbuing and stone crafting all that has been leet will become tier 2 anyway as the natural course of things.

    Id rather see a revamped craftables menu for factions myself, but I think we are taxing human resources as it is.
     
  44. Cazzador

    Cazzador Guest

    Just have the Iteams be able to be bought by everyone even if they can't be used. I just want them to put them in my Museum. 8)
     
  45. Nexus

    Nexus Site Support
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    You don't know that and even if you did it still wouldn't be true.

    If your not in a faction you don't have access to the uber items. But can still be in a fight with Faction members who do. Wider Item vs Item advantage to the Faction Member

    Now if your not in a faction and/or new to PvP and running a good but not great PvP suit your in even worse trouble the spread in this situation is even greater.

    They are changing how +Skill items work but are partly offsetting those changes with benefits from even more powerful +Mod items. Who's to say these won't work in Trammel for Faction players who also PvM. You don't have to use Vamp Form or a Tamer to Solo Peerless....Now even more Uber Suits are possible which will make it easier to shore up some of the weaker points of specialized templates in PvM not only in PvP giving Faction Players advantages over Non Faction members in PvM also.

    All in all Uber Items as a perk for playing in factions is an unfair and callous attempt to bait players into factions by making them less competitive in all other forms of PvM or PvP game play.

    Best solution to this if they decide to go through with it is to make them all cursed. You die they drop period, I might not be able to use them but I sure can toss them in a trash can......
     
  46. Traveller

    Traveller Guest

    While I mostly agree with your analysis, I disagree that there is no compromise. The compromise is simple. Limit the boundable items to 1. That would mean that factions chars would still get an edge, but nothing too unbalancing. Also, that would solve also the siege problem, as the faction arty would take the place of the personal blessing.
     
  47. Splup

    Splup Guest

    Rank Score
    1 Below 20%
    2 20% - 39%
    3 40% - 49%
    4 50% - 59%
    5 60% - 69%
    6 70% - 79%
    7 80% - 89%
    8 90% - 94%
    9 95% - 99%
    10 99.1% - 100%

    So as you can see, only small % of factioneers get access to the most high end items. 0,9% of factioneers can be rank 10, and with this amount of ppl playing that's not too many. And you need to kill ppl all the time to keep your rank since you lose points automatically all the time. So you it can be bit risky to build ur suit on the most high rank items, since you may lose ur access to the item any day when someone gets more points then you.

    http://www.uoherald.com/guide/factions_3.php
     
  48. InTooDeep

    InTooDeep Guest

    Maybe this change to factions is the first of many to come. Maybe there will be ways other than killing other players to earn points needed to use these items. Maybe stealing a sigil will be worth a point. Maybe removing faction traps could earn you points. Maybe there will be ways to earn points to use these items so that anyone who chooses to participate in factions will be able to collect at least a few items for themselves... And maybe I'm going to get flamed for ignoring the fact that some people just plain don't want to participate. Who knows?
     
  49. Cynic

    Cynic Journeyman
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    This may happen on some large shards, sure. You're not taking into account that there are 4 factions. Plus not every person in the faction will ever score a kill point, i'm sorry but alot of people that try to PvP just can't. I play GL, I would say if the active PvP community, the ENTIRE community, joined factions then you still wouldn't see a hard time attaining the highest rank. With people "banking" points, people constantly losing a point a day, people constantly dieing, etc.. I don't see anyone needing more than 10 kills to get to the highest level.