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[Suggestion] Faction revamp... not good at the current state.

Discussion in 'UO Test Center' started by WarUltima, May 6, 2010.

  1. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    This is my post in faction forum I decided to repost it here to grab some attention from the DEVs so they can seriously reconsidering the idea of making "faction point farming" only allowed to players/guilds rocking an big numbers of accounts.

    Mesanna explained roughly how the new system would work and I read thru it, very carefully and found something that's really wrong. Even Mesanna said it can still be abused but the abuser has to have a good numbers of accounts to do it... This widens the gap between legit players (now with broken suits as well) and the 1 player supplying his entire guild with ungodly amount of faction scores/points whatever you wanna call it because he has 10 accounts he can use to create enough "fake faction enemies" on and to create a fake heroic battle all his guildies has to do is to go thru such a fake battle and win and then they get BOMBED with ungodly amount of points... If this is the case then the new system isnt that good and could be quite possibly worse then the current system.

    Anyways this is my post and my suggestions

    I am very much against point farming (actually the 2 biggest faction PvP guilds on my shard have full time point farmers supplying them points to wear their armor and to horde points to keep their points low so legit guilds couldnt get a lot of points per kill).

    My beef with the whole thing is if they actually makes the change to where people couldnt wear their faction arties this pretty much means breaking ALL faction PvPer's suits.

    AND the methods/system they proposed can be abused ONLY TO THE ONES WHO WITH A LOT OF ACCOUNTS. At least 1 dude I know runs 10 active accounts with a couple of them running anywhere from 5 to 8.

    This means for people with 1 or only 2 accounts theres no way we can wear the arties unless you actually went out and kill the enemies. While the zerggy enemy guilds with many accounts (our guild is one of the smallest faction guild) can "setup" a fake heoric battle. e.g. His main account is running on CoM and he fakes 9 SL characters attacking him while he tries to xheal himself on another CoM char (setup a loop here and let it run for awhile). Then he will proceed and kill all 9 of those fake SL chars and pulls off a fake "heoric" battle and gets millions of points because the system thinks he pulled off something really difficult.

    Now rinse and repeat for all his guildmates, 5 days later we will be facing a zerg of enemies fully suited up while we are still struggling to fix our broken suits just so we can compete...

    I dont see ANY REASON WHY they couldnt do it the easy way. The easiest way to eliminate the issue with trammies wearing faction artifacts for pure PvM is to make faction characters to be attack-able on ALL FACETS by their enemy factions. Another reason is this system USED TO BE in UO. People wanted to get Chaos/Order shields joined Chaos/Order and was instantly attack-able anywhere on server by their enemies. Why couldnt you just put this in? After you make all faction characters freely attacked on all facets then remove the requirements to use faction arties for all faction players. Keep all the stat tracking and the neat little menu you guys made if you want but seriously making faction characters attackable cross facets would be the best way with the whole issue.

    Please consider it. Allowing only the biggest subscribers (or the zerg guilds) to abuse the system isnt the way to go nor is it fair in anyway shape or form.
     
  2. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    *sighs*

    Factions and Order/Chaos were separate systems. Always were.

    Order/Chaos was game-wide, Factions was Felucca-specific. Always has been.

    -Galen's player
     
  3. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    What's wrong with a little twist so factions works like Order/Chaos and this simple change will save a huge amount of development resources that can be better used somewhere else.

    Chaos/Order shield was once the heaviest and most protective shield you can get and they were FREE if you join the system and consent to PvP and get rewarded with better equipment that other people can get (they were free as well).

    Making faction work like Chaos/Order, people can use ultra attractive faction artifacts all they want, all they need is to have silver and consent to PvP and they are rewarded with better version of artifacts.

    IMO not only is this an easy if not the best way to fix zero PvP pure PvM faction tram players (they usually have more points than more real PvPers as well) and it promotes PvP. Tram players can enjoy EVERYTHING faction has for agreeing to join a faction they dont even have to have high rank to use. It extends PvP and fixes pure PvM faction newbs all in one shot. Or you have to spend a lot more time and effort to create a brand new faction system that might fail even worse than the current one.

    DEV said the goal of the new system is to discourage point farming and feeding no PvP character with leet items, make it server wide like Order/Chaos and you INSTANTLY FLAWLESSLY EFFORTLESSLY fixed the system as a whole.

    Tram players who dont wish to give up the factions items they cheated for(or point farmed) can stay in faction and face the real challenge. If not they can always resign from faction and stay in godmode from other players as long as they are in tram. Actually since if you guys really made it so there were only 3 factions I think everyone will be taken out of faction automatically the day the new system hits... so if tram players decided to keep their faction arties to use in tram when they re-join faction make it clear that it consents them to PvP anywhere click OK if you wish to join, NO if you want to be teleported instantly back to Luna.
     
  4. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    While I agree that factions should allow aggro on all facets, the Devs have plainly stated that they will not be doing that.

    I'm pretty disappointed with the new system all around. I play maybe 2 or 3 hours a week. When I was playing regularly I spent all of my time getting the resources to build PvP characters with independent suits and transfer them off of my home shard, Great Lakes.

    I now have roughly 20 fully suited PvP characters across 6 shards. Only two of them are non-faction suits. 4 of the remaining 16 don't need rank 10, just rank 7.

    The only thing that I care to do in this game any more is PvP. When I play for a limited time, I want to find action right away which is why I cross sharded.

    Now all of the changes they are going to make will make most of what I have done a waste of time. Keep factions the way they are now. Wipe points to 0, go back to the original kill point system, and make other improvements on the existing system.
     
  5. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    He was specifically claiming that the Faction system had once worked this way.

    He's wrong.

    People joined a system for equipment?

    Funny, in all those custom rules shard threads I keep reading that UO wasn't at all item-based before AoS. I kinda thought my memory was different, though. Hmm.

    -Galen's player
     
  6. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    I never said factions used to work like Order/Chaos, I said Order/Chaos had a working cross facet PvP system that faction system could adapt. Learn to read? L2R?

    If trammies werent using those faction arties then you wouldnt see characters with all skill at 50ish with 320572304 million kill points.

    You are living in denial if you dont think people will join a system for items. People joined DOOM system for ornament, and now UO is item based. And you didnt know why people joined Chaos/Order didnt you? First of all for more action and secondly shields used to have different "blocking value" bucklers has higher chance to block but can only absorb small amount of dmg and has low durability (we are talking about 25 swings from a macer to destory a shield here) which is good against people using kryss and daggers and does virtually nothing against spears or hally/warhammer which were the most used weapon pre-rend. The heater shield is the heaviest craftable shield you can get, but they are designed with low low durability. They take good amount of ingots and lasts about 30 swings from a macer but they block good amount of dmg. Now the only thing thats heavier than heater shields are Order/Chaos shields. they came with about 4 times more durability, blocks the most damage (the trade off is with the lowest chance to block a blow) and they are free... so if you joined order/chaos you get the best shield in game for free that has more than 4 times the durability than the best craftable shield.

    People wont join a system for items? Lol, yea right. And why are you living in the past? (even tho I am pretty sure I played UO longer than you did.)
     
  7. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    *chuckles*

    Now who should learn to read.

    I was quite clearly poking fun of the people who say UO wasn't item based in the past.

    And hey, if you want your posts to be understood, write more clearly.

    As phrased, you're pretty obviously mixing up Order/Chaos and Factions.

    *shrugs*

    Another for the ignore list, I guess.

    -Galen's player
     
  8. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    Sigh another troll just can't get enough of them.

    Zero feedback on the topic other than failing to read.

    Keep living in denial kiddo, lol people don't join x system for items... keep pretending that you knew what pre-aos is about. Ever wonder why a silver vanq katana costs 150k when your GM katana sells for 3k?

    I wonder what faction arties you got on your pure tram pvmer. =)
     
  9. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    Enabling all faction characters to be able to attack each other on all facets also brings back the popular Order/Chaos system. People get to enjoy 2 system in 1 with pure tram pvm faction trammies will be discouraged to pick up their leet item (because all along they JUST WANTED PVP ITEMS but NOT PVP itself).

    You can remove statloss when someone is killed on tram ruleset facets if you see fit (this is the order/chaos part, and you just instantly enticed more excitement), make all faction arties accessible to ALL faction characters with no rank requirement (so you just instantly fixed point farming problem), by consenting to PvP EVERYONE gets all faction privileges. (encourage PvP)

    Only people would opposite these changes I am suggesting would be no one but those who are currently exploiting the faction system, namely "Pure PvM ZERO PVP Faction Trammie" system abusers which is why a faction revamp was needed in the first place anyways.
     
  10. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    You know war, Galen was taking a pop shot at all the people saying that pre-aos was not item based, maybe you could learn to read as well? I was going to post a defense to you the other day, when I saw galens post. As for everything else, there have been pure pvpers who have opposed your suggestion before, a lot of them also agree with you, also it is not only the "pure pvm tram" players that have "abused" the system, they are just the only people people are complaining about, the largest amount of points on single chars seem to be alts of pure pvpers....Interesting, wondering how come it is the tram players who are being blamed?

    I personally do not care that much about your stupid idea, I don't need the faction items on most of my chars, hell currently I only pvp with 1 faction char and 1 non faction char, I can easily make it 0 faction characters so I can enjoy both pvm and pvp. *shrugs* Odd that I feel this way now, since I did enjoy the game at release, but with the changes over time you get use to playing certain ways, and I honestly remember the "good old days" and know they just wont work anymore, so again, pointless arguments.

    Edit: By the way, is this enough feedback for you? Or are you only looking for feedback in which people agree with you?
     
  11. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    You failed to do a feedback on the system itself.
    Yes I understand my idea is "stupid" because its too harsh for people who wants to "turn pvp mode off" when they dont want to PvP. Just the sound from your kind (I assume even if you pvp your pvp chars are stealther of some kind)
    So you only pvp on 1 faction and 1 nonfaction heh, seems like you are not really into PvP (which kinda reveals by your arguments on how "stupid" it is to entice PvP).

    PvP alts farm points so what? They ARE using them to get items to PvP... people like you and Galen on the other hand farm points for your PvM chars when you dont want to PvP when you consent to PvP on your faction chars.

    I mean really, there are so many people like galen and possibly you as well who have never played UO pre-rend and are spitting out how UO WAS like when you obviously dont know (people know went thru that era can identify wannabes like that very easily.) It's ok to object, but just like Galen and you who are quite possibly trolling, and your only feedback to the system and the arguments your kind use is nothing but "oh thats stupid" (i know it will eliminate people rocking faction arties on pure pvm chars like you and galen) Learn to read and post some real feedback? How is it stupid by making people who decided to join a PvP Faction attackable by their faction enemies? Why are you against that?

    The system change isnt aimed for players farming points to feed their PvP characters. It's aimed for people who farm points to feed their PURE PvM chars. Understand now?
     
  12. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    Ok stupid, lets try this one again. Due to not playing much recently I only PLAY two chars. BOTH of which are pvp chars, ONE of which I also go to the abyss with. My FACTION char is a Mage, the one I also pvm with. My non faction char is in fact a stealth char, my Other 12 chars consist of 1 pvm tamer, 1 pvp tamer, 1 pure mage, 1 necro mage, 2 various archer types(not stealth ones thank you) 1 pvm archer(disco archer) and then the other 5 are varients of dexxers or mages all originally based on pvp. I have been around since beta, and only took a break after aos, so lets try that one again?

    And my point was,the changes to the system are designed to try and remove the abuse opf the system, while tram players are being accused of this it is mostly fel players who have the 2 billion points, sure there is a specific part aimed at them, but again they are not the ones with the 2 billion points, get off your high horse. I told you why it was a stupid idea, All of my chars are in factions save for 1, and all of my wifes chars cept for 2. Of all of them, the only ones "rocking the artifacts" are my pvp aimed chars, although of those only 2 can even use the artifacts now due to inactivity. So, you can try to take a jab at my play style all you want, but you know nothing. The people who lived through "that era" do not all agree with your point of view.

    I said I don't care about your idea, in the effect that I don't care if they do it or not, I can live with having any of my characters not be in factions, I can live with them being in factions. Hence why I don't give a **** about your idea, I simply stated it was stupid, not that they should not do it.

    What more feed back do you want? As I said, you only want people who agree with you, no one who opposes you will be seen as having legitimate "feedback".

    I was never against this Idea of having the faction players attackable anywhere, Look around idea has been posted oh say about 100 times or so, and in a few of them I said the same thing here, I don't give a rats ass. Of course back then it was because I spent most of my time in fel and it would not affect me, now it is because I can easily remove my chars from the system.

    And one last note about your comments about "that era" I never said anything about it, and Galen was making fun of YOU for saying it was not item based, and then turning around and making a comment which implies it was. If you can not understand that he was not talking about how IT was back then, but rather how stupid you people are by making claims and then counter claims which actually go against your first claim, then you can continue and sit here forever and say "we" do not know how it was back then, but you will forever have no idea what you are talking about, because a person who has never player UO would know what galen meant, and you never will.

    Thank you.
     
  13. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    In short you dont know what you are talking about but the fact that you have a lot of faction characters as well as your wife with a lot of faction chars and from your kind you and ur wife do not pvp "enough" yet you got accounts full of faction characters I wonder why. Which clearly explained why you think the idea is stupid because it will probably render you or your wife unplayable on certain character.

    It's funny Galen use something that he never been thru (aos superstar?) to make fun of the real vets. People said it was skill based because everyone can afford losing items and they arent hard to come by. Silver Vanq is abololutely top of the line weapon and katana is THE BEST one handed sword (usually to be used with order/chaos or heater shield depending if they are in the system or not). The most powerful item across the entire was selling for 100k (unless it was item blessed, oh silver has no use in PvP a vanq katana/hally goes for around 10 to 20k gold btw). It was skill based because when you die you lose your items and the gap between the best items in game and budget GM gear isnt that big. If items werent important then why would old school players go farm air/earth elementals for magical weapon/armor and gold? Earth ele for pure warriors in training, air ele for warriors who also want to raise magicresist and they all drop significantly more gold compare to other "easy to kill monsters". Oh Mage players usually go to decite lv4 and farm Lich Lords in LL room. And after T2A expansion came people started farming in terra keep because spider warriors has 100% chance to drop a magic weapon per skill. Saying UO wasnt item based is not entirely true it was simply a LOT less item dependent especially it's all fair game, you kill the one with the best item you GET the best items.

    If a trammie wants to argue with something that he knows jack about at least do some research. And please read back my posts in this thread when show me where did I say "pre-aos was skill based" to cover your little pie hole... oh wait you cant because I have never said so. Galen (and you) is either smoking something real good, making double whopper with cheese up or is categorizing me with certain people (the ones that claim pre-aos was zero item all skill) because they still havent found a valid argument.

    Again, I totally understand your concern especially in your situation. I just dont get it why join a PvP system yet so against PvP (since according to Galen no one would join a system for items).

    PvPers farming points => feeding their PvP chars => PvP isnt the problem...

    It's your kind (well you can deny but obviously galen is) thats creating the issue.
    Tram PvMer farming points => feeding their pure trammie PvM chars => Pure PvM and never PvP. now THIS is why a new system has to be introduced.

    Thanks for your feedback but obviously you have no clue exactly why a faction revamp is being developed.

    Thank you for your time.
     
  14. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    I had typed out a fairly long response, which I will not promise this new one wont be but then It is not always easy to keep things short.

    This idea would render 3 or 4 characters unplayable under the system, of course as noted it would be just as easy to remove them from factions, as I do not use faction items on them.

    I do not wish to argue about the thing with galen any longer, I will only say that He was mocking a group of people using your comment, as you pointed out. You did not seem to get that though I said it twice, you got it when I said he was mocking you. So in short he was not mocking you, but that group.

    Ok so I decided pasting some of what I already said would save me time, sorry it has to be so long but then I can not think of how to say it in a shorter fashion.

    *Pasted*
    Not caring before from spending all my time in fel, obviously is why I do not know what I am talking about or why I have all those faction chars now does it?

    What do you care if people in tram have faction artifacts? They are honestly not bothering you, at all. The revamp was aimed at 2 different things, one of which has nothing to do with tram, hence my point.

    Pvpers farming points => Trying to keep the points needed too high for anyone to be able to use the faction artifacts => the problem.

    Normal pvpers killing off the point faming pvpers => Feeding our pvp chars with points.


    I am a pre-aos fan, I don't care if there is tram or not, but we are not talking about "then" we are talking about now. As of this moment, today, I play very limited amounts of time. When I want to pvp I go and pvp, when I do not want to, I don't. What part of this is confusing? I only play 2 chars, the only one worth doing both pvp and pvm on is my Mage, this concept is not that elusive is it?

    I have no idea about galen, but to be honest if I am ever away from the game for to long and my point count drops those ever so fragile 1-2 points below the thresh hold, I will either simply a) go out and see how much I can die before gaining the points back. or b) get the 4 points from someone and then go out and see how much I can die before they drop again. On the other hand if I don't feel like spending my time in a 24/7 gank, I will go to the abyss and get some crap for my crafter.

    I have pvped more than enough to be able to voice my opinion on a matter that affects me, in any way shape or form. This affects only 1 aspect of my game play, but honestly you are asking for something that does not affect you at all to be replaced by something that affects everyone. And once again, since you wish to continue to drop me in a crowd of people opposing you, as I already said.

    I. Do. Not. Care.

    Simple, if they add it then they do, if they don't then life goes on as usual.

    I am not against pvp, never have been. I just at current do not play as much as I would like, when I was playing every day it was different, I said I did not care if they did this or not, because all my time was spent in fel (again ALL my time) ok wait, all except for crafting, but basically all. But back then I also offered the argument that people who do participate also take solace in tram from time to time,so it would affect them. Now I am saying I do not care, but I more understand how it would affect those who participate and also go to tram to escape it, as I now do that for perhaps half of my online time. I guess the addition of SA has also sort of split my time from pvp to pvp+pvm, so perhaps my limited amount of time is not all that is to blame, but I would hope you get the point by now.

    I will once again point out that then was THEN and now is now, what worked once does not mean it will work again, even more so you wish to incorporate something into a system that has never been in that system before. I have stated before in, if I am not mistaken both the faction test and the stat loss thread, that Faction aspects should remain as part of Faction aspects and other aspects should remain as other. This means things such as points, stat loss, and anything else you can relate to factions, should be Kept only while performing Faction related tasks (currently there is only one task, but I am somewhat hoping they add more) Assuming the current way factions is, that Means all Factions things should only be relative to Town control, this means only around the towns and bases.

    Perhaps, parts of this, was better feedback for you. I know some of it was defending myself, and here out I refuse to respond to attacks to how I play if you wish to ignore how I have been playing for years, simply to only focus on how I am playing right now. But if you have something to add to your faction revamp, I would gladly discuss that with you. Hopefully, without the argument in the future.

    Thank you once more.