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Faction stat proposal

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Goldberg-Chessy, Mar 7, 2013.

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  1. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    I am just curious why all reds in factions whine so much about stat & ganking.

    They have no problem at all running around in their precious faction gear ganking people when they have numbers but when they get killed 1 vs 1 or ganked they start complaining about stat and ranting at you to get on a red or factioner.

    I guess when they have numbers its ok for them to attack non factioners but when they dont have numbers its not cool to attack them or get involved in their faction fights? Thats kinda funny :)

    And why do most of them run Ninja for nothing other then animal form or mirror? They are the supposed hardcore faction reds yet they use up 80-120 skill points to run away? Hrmmm.

    How about a real simple solution?

    You can only be statted if you took damage from only one other faction source within a certain time frame.
    3 opposing faction members gank you? No stat.

    One factioner and another non faction player gank you? You dont get statted either as it was not 1 vs 1.

    Just an idea to help curb all the stat complaining.

    Although why join a system that promotes ganking & statting if it is in any way an issue for you?

    I personally dont care too much either way as I refuse to play a broken system that promotes ganking and shelving a character but as I am always being attacked by factioners I just figured I would throw it out there since I am not the one paying the price of statloss :)
     
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  2. Winker

    Winker Babbling Loonie
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    faction Stat loss sucks peroid, no matter how you die.
     
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  3. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    It completely does and even though I was only being half serious about the rest I do think it should be adjusted/tweaked somehow to lessen the chance of statloss if it is a gank situation.

    Dont think it would be too difficult but the timing part would be tricky.

    Maybe for x amount of seconds after a target attacks you cannot get statted if any other target also damages you for over say 25% of your health? It would ofc have to reset fairly quickly though or else you would never get statted.
     
  4. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    It would quite obviously affect group fights but if group fights are what you are looking for in the first place why would you want a system that decreases the size of the group for 20 minutes at a time?

    Maybe back when shards were more populated but I dont think it is a smart mechanic these days
     
  5. Merus

    Merus Babbling Loonie
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    Stat loss should only apply if you die to another faction on the dungeon server, faction controlled town or inside a faction base.
     
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  6. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    They should just do away with factions all together it's a unused system on most shards now..the points are stupid now..the gear is ok but tough to keep rank on lower shards..unless you enjoy farming 200k silver every 1-2 months pointless as well..and defending sigils is good for a nice fight but in all honesty is way too long..it should be dropped to 2 hours and be announced via system message everytime one is stolen..or just scratch the system and start over and get feedback like your doing with the armor revamp..
     
  7. Zosimus

    Zosimus Grand Inquisitor
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    It has already been mentioned that they may go back to Order vs Chaos system. Even though they said it doesn't mean it will happen anytime soon. I agree with Goldberg on his solutions about stat.
     
  8. Lore Denin (GL)

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    Stat loss gives life meaning and death an actual consequence. It allows a group to raid a faction base and remove people for a time period to get in grab sigils and setup a defense at their own base.

    Stat can favor the smaller numbered group as you can widdle away larger numbers to give you better odds. In a raid where numbers are close to even the advantage goes to the defenders. If the raiding group can kill just one or two and remove them from the defense for that 20 minutes, it gives you the window to push. Otherwise they are just rezed and back defending and those battles are a meaningless cycle.

    I am in the minority but have always thought stat should be universal in Fel pvp... [Monsters and Pets should not stat] make it moonbound so you can leave Fel and continue to play while timer ticks away. Reds can go to T2A. Honestly I just continue to play in stat and see it as a natural consequence of dying and time needed for my body to full recover from resurrection.

    I do agree some minor changes should be made to help protect people against larger numbers (though I disagee with your friend who is mad about animal form change, allowing it to be interupted makes it balanced and will force players to do less running and be a little more creative in how they approach uneven numbers). A simple melee unarmed dodge score similiar to the mage eval/anat dodge (weapon skill/tactics or anat/tactics or anything along those lines) would be a simple change that would go along way in fixing the issue of disarm = instant gank death which is a large factor in pvp running.

    The Dev's added a disarm timer so it can't be instantly re-applied which is helpful in a duel or small fight and will increase the quality of those engagements but in a gank (3+ on 1) situation disarm will get you killed before you re-arm.

    -Lore's Player
     
    #8 Lore Denin (GL), Mar 7, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2013
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  9. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    I wish factions would go away, and only because of stat loss. no one likes to fight unless they are in their groups because stat loss sucks that much.

    We just discussed this about atlantic last night. There are several decent sized guilds, but most of them have huge egos about numbers and stat loss. you never see them unless they are in their groups. They endlessly complain about numbers, even when the numbers are close (8v6?) because those 2 people could mean too much in a world of stat loss.
     
    #9 Cetric, Mar 7, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2013
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  10. Lore Denin (GL)

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    Maybe I am not in the everyone group but uneven numbers or stat loss has never discouraged me from battle... although most people posting here are using factions for gear to enhance gate pvp or raid spawns and aren't interest in actual Faction aspects of Factions. Then want to have the advantages of the Faction system but none of the consequences which are a critical aspect of the actual faction system.

    Plus, if you are a smart and maybe hardcore faction player, there ways around stat loss with imbuing.... I have a seperate jewel set in my bank box to use if I get in stat that boosts the critical skills on my template so I can still function at a respectable level while in stat.

    -Lore's Player
     
  11. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    Very well said and nice job referencing my 'friend' :)

    He is funny. He claims he is against the animal form nerf because he fights solo all day long yet he then states that I never see him at the gate because he is playing factions or raiding. Both activities that involve groups lol.
    Who is he trying to kid? He is the only person in the entire game that doesnt agree with an equal animal form nerf
     
  12. SlobberKnocker

    SlobberKnocker Slightly Crazed

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    aye chaos/order has been mentioned. what i'd like to see happen is that the dev's reach out and conduct a focus group with the pvp community to have a rational discussion about what features would make faction play the most enjoyable and hence become attractive as the preferred means of pvp play.

    a revamp of the sigils which in essence is a ''king of the hill'' scenario is sorely needed. The use of Arena's could be used. the right to own property within faction towns. discounts on preferred armor. actual benefits of holding towns, i.e. maybe different mounts depending on rank etc...

    i'd much rather see the dev's time spent in this regards, rather than animating a wine rack or some other pixel hang on the wall garbage.
     
  13. Gorbs

    Gorbs Sage
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    I've never been a fan of stat loss. A system that takes myself or my opponents out of the game for 20 minutes is not fun in open field fighting. If you are talking about defending sigils and such...well, that lost my interest over a decade ago. Having said that, I don't like that we have three distinct setups to the equation. First, you have participants in the four factions. Second, you have purely blue players who attack only reds/greys. Finally, you have players involved in guild wars who may mix into that purely blue category but do actually have someone that is orange to them. I'm holding out hope that a future expansion/booster/etc. will follow through on a pvp centric landmass or division where the requirement to enter is you are flagged to some other set of the participants.
     
  14. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    You are in the minority lore, i hate to say it. I know how you all played, factions wise, on GL. I enjoyed watching/raiding/helping your alliance at TB base just ebcause you guys were THAT into the real, capture the flag style (good way to put it?).
     
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  15. Orgional Farimir

    Orgional Farimir Lore Keeper
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    I am thinking of the time you Eda and I were able to drop 5 or 6 Minax guys while you and I were in stat.

    Nothing like a few timely placed e-fields.
     
  16. Love them Redheads

    Love them Redheads Adventurer

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    This is a game.... I'm not seeking meaning or to learn about consequences.

    40 years of real life has done enough of that already..... I play to have fun.

    Factions is a dumb and broken system does nothing to encourage active PvP participation.
     
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  17. Lore Denin (GL)

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    I'll disagree that factions is dumb but there is no doubt that Factions could be greatly improved. Mr. Knocker had some very good ideas.
    So many of my favorite battle memories occured in stat, greatly out numbered, or both. You take that away and this its just another 4 dudes who died in e-fields :)

    -Lore's Player
     
  18. kaio

    kaio Sage
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    Just delete faction, And make somthing new shiny and cool :)
     
  19. spoonyd

    spoonyd Seasoned Veteran
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    I guess when you're a bad player you can't raid or play faction alone. My mistake....
     
  20. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    Order/Chaos was the best pvp system ever created.

    It promoted 1 vs 1 fighting and did not encourage ganking. It's that simple.

    If you are orange you fight anywhere, anytime.

    Too bad all the kids are addicted to their faction gear and ganking these days :(
     
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  21. Lythos-

    Lythos- Lore Keeper
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    Factions today are only used as a griefing tool to make other players unable to play for 20min.

    Back when there were actually groups of mass players that stole sigs and held bases for hours, stat made sense. Now it's strictly used to keep people from being able to play. On top of that, you have non faction players helping to stat players and it's not just non faction blues vs faction reds. I've seen people take counts to help stat the blue faction player (which there are PLENTY of blue factioneers).

    It's been my opinion for a long time that factions should be scrapped and faction arties be incorporated so everyone could have them.

    I would suggest one of these two options for the faction arties:

    -keep current arties the way they are and replace say doom drops with faction arty grade equipment. (example: an orni from years ago would stay the same but anyone that got one today would have the faction quality upgrade)

    or

    -have an npc vendor to buy these faction grade arties which would either wear out or have limited durability.
     
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  22. SlobberKnocker

    SlobberKnocker Slightly Crazed

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    good points lythos. these are the pertinent types of things that need to be addressed if any worthwhile revamp of the system were to take place.

    fighting in stat and being effective was to me one of the most satisfying parts of this game. the idea that once statted you can't play for 20 minutes is pure bogus. its not that you cant, its that you dont want too.

    all about adaptation of tactics.
     
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  23. Berethrain

    Berethrain Slightly Crazed
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    No, they do not need to distribute faction artifacts among the masses. Most people in factions don't even use the gear anymore after the last "fix" to factions. There is also nothing wrong with the existing orni from doom.

    It disturbs me that people still have the 5 year old mentality that it is only fair that they get the same thing others have though they did nothing to earn it.

    As far as stats, they should stay for those who still play factions for the structure. It is an instrumental part of raiding/defending.

    If only they would put a veteran faction group together to work on factions instead of listening to people who played factions very little if at all.
     
  24. SlobberKnocker

    SlobberKnocker Slightly Crazed

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    agreed berethrain.

    this topic to be fixed the right way is in dire need of an experienced pvp focus group.
     
  25. Lythos-

    Lythos- Lore Keeper
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    Here's what i wrote: "It's been my opinion for a long time that factions should be scrapped and faction arties be incorporated so everyone could have them."

    Understand now? If/when factions are scrapped, faction arties should be made available for everyone instead of poofing. There is nothing wrong with arties today, but obviously faction arties are better and shouldn't poof if/when the system is scrapped. It has nothing to do with a "5 year old mentality" even though i currently play factions.

    I've played factions pre points farming era, during, took a break and came back to an even more botched system. I look forward to Chaos/Order and this mess just flushed with the rest of the crap.
     
  26. Lythos-

    Lythos- Lore Keeper
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    A PvP focus group will not work. Pvpers can't even agree on here and omg forget general chat.

    Look at the current nerfs. You have some people that agree and some disagree. Each makes their case based upon what would benifit them personally, not for the greater good of the game. There's only very few people even here that are unbiased. It's really no wonder we never get anything decent with all the mixed messages that are being sent in every pvp related thread.
     
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  27. SlobberKnocker

    SlobberKnocker Slightly Crazed

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    well while that maybe true lythos, taking suggestions and wading through the self serving b.s. that would go along with them is still needed as the bottom line is the players are the ones that ultimately enjoy or indict it.

    take a look at the outcry on the original pub 81 armor patch which has since been tweaked.
     
  28. Picus at the office

    Picus at the office Certifiable
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    I was part of the old PvP focus group and it was a waste of time which nothing came from that I recall.
     
  29. Lythos-

    Lythos- Lore Keeper
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    Correct me if i'm wrong but wasn't that focus group responsible for the change to evasion, tie deathstrike into hiding/stealth and tie tactics into weapon specials?

    I've been known to be wrong every once in a while but if i remember right, that same focus group drove hundreds of pvpers off the game by completely slaughtering multiple unique templates.
     
  30. Berethrain

    Berethrain Slightly Crazed
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    I understood what you wrote the first time and in no way do I agree even if upon dissolving factions should they be distributed. They should be done away with and that is all.
     
    #30 Berethrain, Mar 12, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2013
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  31. Berethrain

    Berethrain Slightly Crazed
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    here is my thoughts on it, currently Devs are wading through loads of crap through all different play styles because these currently affect everyone. Of course a spectrum of players aren't going to agree on the same thing.

    At least a focus group would narrow the view down to something pro factions. Guessing the first goal would be a revert lol but that's not going to happen so it's just wishfull thinking.

    But back to the point, you wouldn't ask a group of players that played in trammel and did pvm about what changes they appropriate to factions. And every time time fel is even mentioned in UHALL a bunch of kids jump in on the argument and crying that it's not fair, all we want is shinies, etc etc etc.

    I'm sure you can see my point.
     
  32. Berethrain

    Berethrain Slightly Crazed
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    Someone was talking about this, they ended up going with ideas from some kid who didn't even pvp.

    The problem is that Devs seem to be like minded and are pro trammel so I can understand why they would lean that way, though it couldn't be any farther from target.
     
  33. Lythos-

    Lythos- Lore Keeper
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    I sure do see your point and it sounds great in theory, but the reality is people will go after their own agenda to nerf the temps they die to and make their play easier. If they do find an honest player it's going to be chaos with everyones idea of a perfect faction game.

    It's a no win situation. Sometimes i wish the Devs didn't respond on here and made the game the way they want so we could just live with it. There's too many hands in the cookie jar.
     
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  34. Berethrain

    Berethrain Slightly Crazed
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    There's no pvp skill / stat tweaks in adjusting a structured system.

    But given history, sometimes they just give the wrong people the cookie.
     
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  35. Picus at the office

    Picus at the office Certifiable
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    Gosh I can't even recall what came from it other than a lot of wasted effort and time from myself and a few other posters. The format was not much different than what you would see here with a mess of different threads and postings in each. Lots of back and forth with people selling this idea and that. I still have the link at home but the site is closed and I can't log in to see the old postings or I would share a screenshot.

    I also managed to get into another closed Dev discussion, SA I think, which really was used by people to prefarm the imbuing items and make lots of gold. Again there wasn't much actuall discussion that helped so, in hindsight, I can see why they don't bother with such effort. Hmm, I guess that is why they don't bother to post much here either.
     
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  36. Cadderly

    Cadderly Journeyman
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    I don't unerstand why everybody keeps saying replace chaos vs order with factions. Why not do both, they did it before. Am I mistaken? Did ultima not have both factions and chaos vs order at the same time.

    Would someobody refresh my memmory why choas vs order would be better then factions besides killing players in any facet? Why was order vs choas so great? I honestly don't remember choas/order being that exciting.
     
  37. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    What do you mean by exciting?

    It is a pvp system. It should simply be a system that promotes pvp. No added eye candy or pixel crack that only promotes ganking and chest thumping like factions does. Not to mention that factions promotes logging out of the game. Never a good idea imo but much less now that there are fewer players.

    Chaos/Order was fantastic because it was shardwide and very simple and it didnt promote ganking half as much as factions does.

    If you want to pvp you simply pick a side and start fighting oranges. No silly voting or rank.
     
  38. Berethrain

    Berethrain Slightly Crazed
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    It wasn't, which is why it was taken out in the first place.


    The only advantage it has over factions is that it hasn't been run into the ground as hard yet.

    Give it time.
     
  39. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    If you think that pvp excitement is manufactured by a specific dev system you are missing the whole pvp experience imo.

    That kinda fake excitement you seem to crave is reserved for filler like exodus and medusa and doom, etc...
    ai generated nonsense that gets boring in a month and is only done afterwards in hopes of getting items.

    Thats lather, rinse, repeat junk that leaves players begging for more expansions just so they can do it again on a differently drawn ai monster that does the same thing as the last 10 did
     
  40. Kage

    Kage Crazed Zealot
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    Hey Goldberg remember what you did before you had a blue/non faction thrower? I SURE DO.... YOU PVPED FROM HOUSES! But finally the devs introduced a new race/skill that even made horrible players like yourself half decent.
     
  41. Berethrain

    Berethrain Slightly Crazed
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    I've pvped in UO for 13 years. Don't fool yourself into thinking you know better.

    It is all subjective, so you also don't need to concern yourself with which I prefer.
     
    #41 Berethrain, Mar 16, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2013
  42. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    I am sorry that I killed you so many times on the field that now you feel the need to lie and rage at me on a website. Or do you only come on the boards to rage at people that dont kill you ingame?

    It was kind of flattering for awhile but now its just kinda weird bro.

    You should also try posting just once without referencing a color or template. It would make you seem less wierd.

    Btw, hows it going begging the devs to not nerf your precious animal form? Must be a heavy load when you are the only pvper on the planet wanting animal form to stay the same.

    Nice char pic in your profile though. I am guessing you have that in poster form on your bedroom wall. Very cool stuff.
     
    #42 Goldberg-Chessy, Mar 17, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2013
  43. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    This has become a personal pissing match.
     
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