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Faction Statloss

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Clog|Mordain, Oct 14, 2008.

  1. Clog|Mordain

    Clog|Mordain Lore Master
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    Who else thinks 20 minutes is to long? With the player as it is and factions only starting to get a look at i think it is. I like the idea of not being able to get straight back in the fight, especially if you run with a LRC suit.

    Maybe the Devs could look at this. Lower it to 10 minutes atleast
     
  2. JoO

    JoO Seasoned Veteran
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    twenty minutes is good. It allows an outnumbered group to be able to make headway against a larger force that may be attacking or defending.
     
  3. Clog|Mordain

    Clog|Mordain Lore Master
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    Change to Oceania, with the small player base, its hard enuff to get a fight, then add in statloss, you stand around twiddling your thumbs for half hour.
     
  4. wrekognize

    wrekognize Guest

    There was another thread on this recently. I completely agree. It's frustrating if you have a bad run, or for new pvpers. If you die three times in a row you're sitting for an hour doing nothing!!!

    Not to mention the buffed up arties the high end pvpers will have along with their ganking.

    What's going to happen? We're going to have lots of people Join, then lots of people quit in a short period of time.

    ...
     
  5. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    I agree, mainly because on my shard, Sonoma, running into an enemy factioner is as common as a GM actually responded to a page instead of canned messages :p

    J/k, but it really is rare. You run into one factioner, you or they lose, and bam, your stuck waiting 20 minutes just to fight that same person again. The limit was good back when factions were booming and on shards where it still is popular, but for small shards, it's kind of a pain in the arse.
     
  6. Kiss Of Death

    Kiss Of Death Babbling Loonie
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    Faction items will be given to the best pvpers of the shards, the best faction item, the highest rank u need to use it, they also cannot be reipaired etc, if u lose rank u cannot wear them.

    It's a fair price for the best pvpers of the shard tbh. The gimp players will just be gimper. Ppl shouldn't be scary of anything, just should learn from the greatest pvpers and try to emulate them in the future.

    P.s. yesterday me and another pker fought 12 Blues ( who came here from another shard , never seen them) in thera sanctum, we killed them all...

    I mean... ok , it might have been frustrating for them , but they'll have a reason to improve in the game, to become better and better, and maybe, a day, good as the best pkers.

    This is the fashion of UO. Good, Evil, Emotions.
     
  7. Clog|Mordain

    Clog|Mordain Lore Master
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    A little off topic ya think? Though with statloss as is, there are gunna be the people who die constantly and within a week they would have got the ****s of sitting doing nothing for 20 minutes while u wait it off.. you cant even go and farm some gold because the statloss carries over to trammel rulesets
     
  8. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    And your thought on the topic of this post is...?
     
  9. Ericge99

    Ericge99 Guest

    Clog, I also play on oceania, and i know what it's like to be out of it for 20 mins. I realy dont know why your complaining though, your in one of the largest faction guilds supporting the most active player base, and here you are whining that you have to wait 20 mins before getting back to the fight. Suck it up, :loser:
    We have to wait it out as well and were only a small faction group.
    We regroup and try again, admittedly we wont be able to hold that sigil for long, but at least were giving it a fair go. :D
     
  10. Clog|Mordain

    Clog|Mordain Lore Master
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    I'm complaining about the lack of fighting once a few people die :(
     
  11. ColterDC

    ColterDC Visitor

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    The majority of these "great" pvpers you speak of, require more than the client and UOassist to aid them in their "greatness"

    If by emulate, you mean go find all the 3rd party programs you can download....No thanks.
     
  12. Cadderly

    Cadderly Journeyman
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    If you on a shard with next to no faction activity then the I find it hard to understand how stat loss is such a bummer. Switch charicters if you can't wait 20 minutes.

    Shards busy with factions I find it pretty easy to fill my 20 minute wait. Getting rez'd, grabbing the correct resources to better your next encouter, and formulating the next game plan to try and make the raid or defence of the base better.

    Different mind set I suppose. I'm about finding a way to stay alive longer or find a way to put them in stat instead of me.
     
  13. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Hmm let me get this straight. I dont have a faction character but lets assume I make one and usually you start out in a high rank as Ive heard craft players start at then get silver from someplace else. After that buy the high end items in silver then stay in trammel with high items pvm with no stat loss at all and no problem and never look back again? If im right is there something wrong with that or am I just going crazy?
     
  14. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    That still doesn't change the fact you have to wait on playing that character for 20 minutes cause you lost against that rarely seen faction enemy.
     
  15. Cardell

    Cardell Lore Keeper
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    There is something wrong with that, you aren't going crazy, the people implementing this are...

    And faction stat loss is fine the way it is. If you haven't play it for years then you really have no way of actually knowing what factions are like and have a pretty weak base of experience your making your suggestions off of. When you first join and you die, its all 'boo hoo im in stat loss. waa waa this sucks. I want to be fighting'. But when people realize the play style in factions is totally different they will realize the stat loss is an absolute necessity. Take it from someone who has been in factions every single day since they came out. I've guarded hundreds of times and trust me, the 20 minutes is JUST FINE....
     
  16. Cadderly

    Cadderly Journeyman
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    *shrugs* dunno what to tell you man. It's a choice, if you don't want to have to worry about 20 minutes then you don't have to worry about that rare encounter with a faction enemy.
     
  17. Clog|Mordain

    Clog|Mordain Lore Master
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    I'm talking about having no one to fight after the enemy faction(s) die. If i die, i generally do change chars and keep going.
     
  18. Demonous

    Demonous Rares Fest Host | Ches Jul 2010
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    if u can't handle statloss, don't join factions, statloss is what makes factions fun, id never play it if statloss didn't exist
     
  19. Ailish

    Ailish Lore Master
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    No. No. NO. NO! Especially now with the new items, factions do not need to be made into glorified champ fights. Again, NO! Learn how to fight/play while in stat loss or get over it. The other option is leave it behind. I will be honest ... I spend most of my faction time in stat loss ... and I keep stealing, keep throwing spells, keep swinging, whatever it takes.

    If I feel the need to take a break, I take use that opportunity to restock, repair, and regroup.
     
  20. Budweiser

    Budweiser Guest

    Agreed. Stat loss for 20 mins is fine. I have played in KDL on many shards for Factions. Use the time to regroup, set up def's. restock yourself and others. If there has been a huge fight and your side has won then thats a good time to regroup your people that are dead and set up your def's, etc for when a reattack happens. Or if you just lost then you JUST LOST.....you can be an asset even in stat loss, I used to toss ex pots at the attackers during my stat loss time....what fun ;)
     
  21. Ailish

    Ailish Lore Master
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    I call bull****. You telling me you never earned a single GP until all your chars were GM+ in skills? YOu sure as hell can farm gold, or silver, or fight or do whatever else suits your fancy ... but not until you get your head out of your "I can't do anything but sit when in statloss" mindset.
     
  22. Ailish

    Ailish Lore Master
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    Explode and conflag pots (just have some alternate EP jewels!), mindblast, lighning, fireball, clumsy, feeblemind, fire fields, maybe even e-bolt, blade spirits, natures furies, pixies, a pack of frenzied ostards (maybe a bake kitsune or two), weapon still swings, maybe not as well, but it still does damage (If I can kill a champ in stat loss you can hit a player!). Think outside the box. Or, go sit on your duff. Choice is yours.
     
  23. maremmano

    maremmano Adventurer
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    yes really all people say it
     
  24. JoO

    JoO Seasoned Veteran
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    saying stat should be shorter because their aren't enough factioners on your shard isn't really a good reason. Besides you can still cross-heal at the vey least while in stat so its not like you have to go stand in the corner.
     
  25. drawn

    drawn Journeyman
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    Why do we even HAVE stat loss for in the first place?? If someone can explain why stat loss is good I am open to changing my mind on this.

    My experience with factions has always been 5 on 2 and obviously after losing to those odds and then adding insult to injury for having to wait is :coco:
     
  26. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    Ever been to a sigil sit? If you can not put the attackers into stat, you are doomed trying to defend the base.
     
  27. drawn

    drawn Journeyman
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    ahh... thank you and that does make sense. I was never involved with factions back in the day when it was super popular - nowadays all I ever see is people fighting at yew gate :( ty :)
     
  28. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    The Yew gate/Luna(on Siege) aspect of factions is the least factions has to offer, in my humble opinion. That is why I think the new faction items are "jumping the shark" so to speak.
     
  29. Shayne

    Shayne Guest

    Use the timer to your advantage!! Go tame something for an hour!! Long has it been that you could only do this to magery to train it to 120 in a DAY, try it on harder skills!!
     
  30. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    You can't gain skills during the 20-minute skill loss period (other than by putting on jewelry or other items). Skill training during the skill loss period is a waste of time.
     
  31. Anakena

    Anakena Seasoned Veteran
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    An old proposal was to allow the timer to run offline so that if you die you can log off and the next day you are not supposed to stand 20 minutes doing nothing.
     
  32. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    Factions and stat loss was created pre insurance days, right? On Siege, odds are if you are in stat loss you are very likely to need to re equip and get every thing back in order before rejoining the battle.

    Back to the point. There is a penalty for dieing. Statloss makes faction battles at faction strong holds interesting. There is no rule that you can not continue to battle if you still have gear. It will be a diminished capacity, but you can still participate.

    I strongly disagree with the idea of getting rid of statloss. It is an important part of the system if you are actually in a faction fight. One that matters any way.
     
  33. Lord Patapon

    Lord Patapon Guest

    Is the statloss timer is running while logged off (or on another char) ?

    Because if it is, 10 mins statloss is totally ridiculous, because of the fact that you can now have several faction chars on one account; this said, I understand those out there who're playing a lesser populated shard (or a non-active faction shard), but I don't think the whole system should be changed because of that.

    Faction is meant to be big battles; in those conditions, if killing a guy means nothing, what is the point ? A good old guild fight or FFA at Yew Gate is worth the same (for what it is ... yeah, house running is not my cup of tea.)

    The Factions, as it WAS working, always had sufficient people needed to play it.
    Of course, there was some peaks of population at some times, but basically, we had all we needed, and the system worked well enough to avoid massive quittings.

    EA Mythic gotta get it right, because factions may be a very good card in UO's hands; I hope they realize this. (and Im sure they do ... just unsure about the "screwing up" part, which can - and has - happen.)

    [email protected]: thanks, mate !
     
  34. JoO

    JoO Seasoned Veteran
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    the clock is only ticking while logged into the character.
     
  35. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    Agreed - this thread has some incredibly stupid arguments for reducing stat loss timer.

    "Well my shard is empty, I don't want to wait 20 minutes so I can 1 v 1 the same person?"

    Ya, lets change the game mechanics for the only 5 ppl that play your shard. 20 minutes is perfect the way it is. If all you do is just 1 v 1, why would you need to be in factions for that?

    If you want faction fighting come to Great Lakes, factions are booming.
     
  36. Anakena

    Anakena Seasoned Veteran
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    The ability to gain skills during statloss was removed a few weeks after factions were implemented. I don't remember seeing any changes since then.
     
  37. Arabella

    Arabella Lore Keeper
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    Well said!
     
  38. Radun

    Radun Guest

    ya i think it's the lamest thing about factions.... they should at the very least change it so that you only get statloss if you were in/around a faction stronghold
     
  39. Clog|Mordain

    Clog|Mordain Lore Master
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    Hell even in fel in general. Cause once in statloss, u cant even go do in a trammel ruleset..
     
  40. Clog|Mordain

    Clog|Mordain Lore Master
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    I live in australia, playing great lakes would just be a bloody bath for me, i'd constantly be in statloss :( 2 steps, 1 min pause FTW
     
  41. Ailish

    Ailish Lore Master
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    Again, you are quite capable of doing things in Tram while in stat loss. My god, what did you people do before your chars were "uber"? I spend so much time in stat its not funny ... and I never stand around waiting unless I am told to. Get over it or get the hell out of factions.
     
  42. Sneaky Que

    Sneaky Que Babbling Loonie
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    I think skill loss is a very important part of factions and needs to stay (maybe shorten to 15mins but no more). However, being in the same shard/faction guild as the OP, I can understand where he is coming from. In the near future I don't see it being as big a problem for us due to the impending explosion of faction activities.
     
  43. O'siris

    O'siris Journeyman
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    i tried factions back in they day and liked it then so i decided to give it a go. im currently in stat loss at the moment. and it does suck, but hey it was worth it when we were doin a two man sigil run and droped the opposing force giving us enough tijme to set up a defense. so yeah it sucks but is to necesary to get rid of. hopefully i wont be in stat 5 mins after i get out
     
  44. Nexus

    Nexus Site Support
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    I think it's too short...make it where you have to actually rebuild the skill. Factions is already getting the best equipment in the game let them have a real penalty for having it.
     
  45. Specialshoes

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    I really believe 20 min is much to long. Just me personally cause I like to get back in it right away I would like 5 min. I am not good at pvp. Nor do I feel like grabbing a couple third party apps to make me good at pvp. I want to pvp because I do enjoy it. Mind you I have only killed like three players in eight years.
    I like the idea of factions cause your character is fighting for something. I like the idea of a penalty for dying. With the small populations and the relative ease of getting re-equipped to fight (Remember before insurance some of that 20 minutes was to get yourself new gear). It needs to be alot shorter.
    I would even like to see ten minutes.
     
  46. Zyon Rockler

    Zyon Rockler Guest

    I think we have 2 completely different views. You have one side saying penalty is important for balance and the other side saying to much time is wasted.

    I think way to much time is wasted. If you work and that takes up 10 hours of your day and then you decide your going to play UO because you love being in factions but have a limited time of maybe and hour or 2 and you die, you might not want to keep playing the game or at least you might just decide to leave factions.

    What exactly is the reason for having this timer? People say it should be longer and that this timer is a good thing but I really don't understand why. I still have not seen a reasonable explanation why a player should sit idle for
    20 minutes.
     
  47. Zyon Rockler

    Zyon Rockler Guest

    Here's an idea, leave the timer the way it is, don't change stat loss but give a player a way to remove the stat loss immediately by maybe entering the enemy stronghold and touching some kind of orb. This way the timer would affect players attacking enemy strongholds more then the defenders.

    This is because if the enemy dies attacking the stronghold, say he attacks TB and TB kills him now he must enter the stronghold of TB and touch the orb or wait for the timer.

    This is just an idea, i'm sure there are many possibilities to completely satisfy both sides of this arguement.
     
  48. Traveller

    Traveller Guest

    Feel free to read the thread if you are interested in reasonable explanations. Faction is the only system where killing the enemy actually means that you are weakening his side instead of seeing him back fully healed and stockpiled in 30 seconds. While you might not be comfortable with that, stat loss is one of the few things in this game that achieves its intended purpose and does it well. So obviously players want to change it.

    Besides, your statement that you have to stand idle is incorrect and only shows both a lack of understanding of factions and how much players in this game have been spoiled. You can STILL be of help, even in stat. Probably not on the front lines, but a crosshealer, even at reduced efficiency is always wanted. An archer can easily recover 120 archery with items (even on siege if he stockpiles disposable +10 archery jewelry), thus being more useful than not being there. Even if your character is useless for anything else while in stat (which boils down to poor planning when designing the template), a ghost scout is not to be scoffed.

    If you don't enjoy it, log on an unfactioned red and attack enemy faction chars with it (guard zones have been lifted in the contested cities, if I remember correctly).
     
  49. Traveller

    Traveller Guest

    I don't think so. The core issue here is that one side want the death of an enemy to affect enemy forces overall strength, while the other side want to come back into the fry immediately at full strength.

    I cannot see how the positions may be reconciled. Personally I think that those who do not understand why statloss is there (not saying that they have to like it, I don't like being in stat loss either :) ) do not understand the nature of a group effort like factions, but just want the shiny new items.
     
  50. Phaen Grey

    Phaen Grey Lore Master
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    I think without knowing all the reasons its in place or how it works it should be re-evaluated for the shard populations and then changed being made to factions. What worked in the past may not work well now and need tweaking.

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