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Faction Update: Do we want this on Siege?

Discussion in 'UO Siege Perilous' started by Kat, Oct 6, 2008.

  1. Kat

    Kat Crazed Zealot
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    If, as a whole, we do want this, then fine, but if we have a huge problem with something like this coming to Siege, we should probably speak up about it before it gets here. If past history is any indication, our dev team typically doesn't remove content once it goes live.


    Just for reference, these are the proposed changes/additions...


     
  2. Willow30

    Willow30 Guest

    I am not against the items, but I do think they should be lootable and not bound to the character.
     
  3. Speedy Orkit

    Speedy Orkit Grand Inquisitor
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    Agreed with above posted.
     
  4. Goron

    Goron Guest

    I vote NO as they are.

    The benefits are greater the more points you have.
    Sucky pvpers like myself have no points. Good pvpers have lots of points.
    This just makes the richer richer and the poor poorer... except in pvp terms.


    MAYBE if they are lootable and FREELY USABLE (no matter what rank) as devin suggested I would be for them.
    Then the 'rich' could still buy and give to the 'poor'.
     
  5. GoodGuy

    GoodGuy Slightly Crazed
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    if they are lootable and usable by anyone in factions not messed with by faction rank then i am down.

    but if they are blessed and only usable by whatever you rank is then NO i dont want this bull**** going in game.
     
  6. Goodah

    Goodah Guest

    All that stuff isn't going to matter when you are getting "all killed" by the bagillion greater dragons running around.

    These are only two that we know as of yet, but do these and similar undisclosed consumables belong on Siege?
    1) Stronghold Rune: One-use item that will teleport you to your faction HQ (standard criminal flagging rules apply)
    2) Shrine Gem: One-use item that can be used to teleport your ghost to the nearest shrine
     
  7. King Edward

    King Edward Visitor

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    Either make um crumble like chaos boots if removed so they lose um on death if the player that won wants to destory um (or they stay on the body if the winner doesnt try and remove it) OR,
    Place a timer on um like getting keys too a peerless (2 hours max).
    Claimable once a day.
     
  8. Kat

    Kat Crazed Zealot
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    No one see's any issues as far as balance goes? Faction PvPer's vs. Non-Faction PvPer's? That's my main concern.

    Edit: Faction fighters don't just fight other faction players...
     
  9. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    It will make players stop hiding in the guardzone behind their blue color if they want to keep up. Sounds like a good thing to me...la
     
  10. Patty Pickaxe

    Patty Pickaxe Certifiable
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    Is this stuff on TC yet? Is anyone planning on trying it on TC? I know I am not since I have no interest in factions, but maybe it would be a good idea if some serious faction people tried it out on TC.
     
  11. Speedy Orkit

    Speedy Orkit Grand Inquisitor
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    I play TC about 80% of the time. I'd be happy to
     
  12. AEowynSP

    AEowynSP Certifiable
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    Indeed. My 2 cents I don't want this on siege.
    Yet another imbalance in the system as I see it.
     
  13. Hera - Siege

    Hera - Siege Lore Master
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    I think it'd be a good thing to get more people into factions. The Factioneers are always whining not enough people are in factions, this would definitely help IMO.

    There are some nice items, heck even the rank 1 RBC w/ +3 in all resists is fairly solid.

    It's unbalancing, but not unbalancing in a way that no-one else can step up and balance it out if they so desire. If you don't want to be in factions, that's fine, but you can't whine about the people who are in factions and risk stat-loss/etc who get the cool toys.

    I do agree, there should be a timer on the items, like a 1/day or something along those lines so you just can't stock up on silver and re-equip every time you die.

    I'd also like to see the rank stuff dropped on Siege. We just don't have the numbers to really do this right. Couple this with a max of 1 or 2 faction arties equippable at a time and I think we're doing ok.

    Edit: And lootable/non-blessed on Siege. Don't care one way or another about if <char> can only use it, but it definitely should be lootable. I like the idea about it destroying on pickup, that's a nice way to be able to leave it if you want to be a nice guy or just destroy it if you want to be that way too. :)
     
  14. -Whiskey-

    -Whiskey- Guest

    that teleport garbage needs to be given to the prodo only. i do like the items but is this what siege really needs is more items?
     
  15. HaHa

    HaHa Guest

    Agreed ... la


    ... and agreed about the teleport **** not being on siege.
     
  16. Kat

    Kat Crazed Zealot
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    Hera and Rico make some valid points, but I'd much rather have incentives to fight for towns vs item incentives. Plus, I really think we have to carefully consider the balance of PvP across the board. The Greater Dragon issue can be resolved if the dev team will just get to it, but we don't need more imbalances.
     
  17. Vortex

    Vortex Slightly Crazed
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    Yes, I see this as a major problem. The same way MI is a problem.

    They should take factions off Siege and everyone should war.
     
  18. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    I don't like the transport to the faction stronghold item, but the transport to a shrine seems fine to me. The player will jump into stat/skill loss, so it's not like they can rez and jump back into the fight...la
     
  19. HaHa

    HaHa Guest

    Like what? Maybe more towns you own the more valuable of an item you can have? Or maybe a combination of two. More towns figured in with more points you have = better items to wear ? Not a bad idea with that either.
     
  20. Kat

    Kat Crazed Zealot
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    Well, I wouldn't go that far. I love factions. I just don't want to see more balance issues introduced.

    We've had wars with other guilds and that is great fun, but I prefer a reason to fight and I like fighting well away from the GZ's. Base defense is the most fun there is, even when there has been overwhelming odds against us. Best fun ever!!
     
  21. Hawkind

    Hawkind Guest

    Well I don't mind giving faction rank some actual meaning and reward but I think there are a few things that need to be fixed before they add such a system in place. Just off the top of my head

    -Farming points
    -Hero/Evil System where killing someone in your own faction results in point loss

    I'd like that sort of thing addressed before rank is given meaning.

    This non-sense about the rich getting richer..I'm sorry thats bs from crappy players that just want the items handed to them by better players than themselves. You want something good? Work for it.

    Instead of the items being player bound I would rather have them faction bound so anyone in factions with the appropriate rank can use them once they are looted. Keep in mind they should still be able to be hero/evil dyed.
     
  22. Kat

    Kat Crazed Zealot
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    Your ideas aren't bad! I made some suggestions in a UHell thread. I'll see if I can find it, but the incentives were not item based.

    Edit: I found the suggestions I made in the UHall thread.

     
  23. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    I'd like to see faction crafter involved in these new items. It would be cool if the faction gear had to be made by a player to be distributed, maybe even hold a particular rank to be able to craft them as well as some type of faction quest to gain the recipes. Tinkers, Smiths and Tailors would be needed to make the items, but also they would have to create the items with all the unblessable components in a faction owned town...la
     
  24. Mogluk

    Mogluk Guest

    I say lets take it all!!!!!!

    lets go down in a ball of fury!!!!
     
  25. Kage

    Kage Crazed Zealot
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    I like a lot of the idea but lets be real. It's EA they have made the coding will not waste there time to correct anything unless it is with the following publish.

    I see things pretty much going the way they was listed accept Items on Siege and Mugen will not be blessed.
     
  26. Kat

    Kat Crazed Zealot
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    Well they certainly wouldn't make any changes before publish 56 goes live, but they could opt to leave it out until we and they can come up with another alternative for Siege. Once the publish goes live, I can't imagine they'd remove it. I don't know if they even have the ability to. If so, I imagine it would be a very tedious task.
     
  27. -Whiskey-

    -Whiskey- Guest

    im sure we can get rid of atleast the teleport recall runes
     
  28. Kat

    Kat Crazed Zealot
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    Whiskey - Agreed!
     
  29. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    I'm not, and barring a minor aberration on Mo's part, never have been in factions, however I'd say a lot depends on how they plan to implement these things. Bound to a character does not necessarily mean blessed, and on Siege mustn't mean that.
    The teleport rune is possibly the easiest to disallow, since recall is disallowed anyway, with luck it will be coded as a recall so it just won't work, np.

    Basically I'd say you can't make an informed judgement until you have the relevant information.
     
  30. Kat

    Kat Crazed Zealot
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  31. Førsaken

    Førsaken Guest

    Hmmm imo, the items will make the already Artied out PvPers (me included) stronger.

    Things to think about to make people WANT to join Factions and gain these items:

    1) Stop point farming with noob chars, set it to where the char must be certain age and/skill points.

    2) Maybe shorten the Stat Loss timer to 10 mins. Is that something that would give incentive to the people who do not wish to have 20 min Stat Loss game play in their already tight schedule?

    3) Make owning towns actually worth a damn! Aka maybe having towns unlock such arties? (This will give fights)

    4) Fix the point system all together. Each new day, you should be able to kill someone and get point, unless they're -6. (With this said, there has to be a better way to stop people from throwing alts in another faction simply to farm points/take away for that matter.)

    5) Make it to where Tamer's pets can no longer be in the main part of faction base. I can see it now, who has the more Greater Dragons inside their Stronghold...oh gee golly. Their role should be front line defense. (my 2 cents)

    :flame:
     
  32. Tiberius

    Tiberius Babbling Loonie
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    I think they should be lootable and usable by any factioner in much the same way as hero/evil dyed items are now. I also think you should be able to use your siege bless on them if you choose to do so and ranking should be left out of it on siege. Everyone who is willing to join facions regardless of thier skill level in pvp should be able to take advantage of this. This would be fair and level the playing field IMO. Far as non-faction pvpers go, this would be considered incentive. Yes I am biased on that point since my chars have been factioned for almost as long as the system has been in place; I have never been a fan of the random blue pvp style and have always thought you should either be red or factioned. I do hate to see non factioned reds screwed in the deal though.
     
  33. Kage

    Kage Crazed Zealot
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    I like all of those but damn I really like #5.
     
  34. Rykus

    Rykus Guest

    I see this as nothing but pure laziness on the part of the developers/management. Instead of implementing meaningful incentives to be in a factions, they just do what they've done for so long, re-hash/re-hue/re-release... *yawns*

    There are some good suggestions in this thread already, but none of it will ever happen. I honestly don't believe this current dev team has the skill and creativity to produce anything beyond cheap gimmicks. This will only serve to give even more advantages to those who spend 60 hours a week in game, creating an even wider gap between certain segments of the population, and everyone else.

    $.02
     
  35. Gwendar-SP

    Gwendar-SP Guest

    Agree - my impression is that it will be unbalancing, almost like when faction could get their armor and weapon blessed for 3 weeks.

    More item inflation *sigh*
     
  36. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    No and why the hell should there be? Non-Faction PvPers don't risk stat loss. They don't risk an orange popping out or a bunch of faction guards dumping on them in rapid succession.

    You want to PvP without the Risk, don't ***** about the rewards given those who take that added risk, when you CHOSE not to.

    Deal with your own decision making process if you think it's unfair.
     
  37. Czarina

    Czarina Slightly Crazed
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    has anyone ever mentioned completly doing away with factions and bringing back the old hero evil system? it was basically same thing but only 2 sides plus had some nice benifits. not too mention that alot of it is probaly still in siege coding. so should be too much work.
     
  38. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    So people are "rich" because they don't suck at PvP?

    ...

    There needs to be rewards for being better than your opponent. Not imbalancing ones... but rewards none-the-less.

    I don't think these should be bound to the character, but I do think they need to reward those who are contenders.
     
  39. OldAsTheHills

    OldAsTheHills Lore Master
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    It seems to me that the whole reason to add all of these additions are to
    cause players to join Factions. Non-Faction must give way to Factions so
    that Factions would grow in numbers among those who do PvP.
    There is going to have to be advantages to those Pvpers in Factions over
    the Non-Faction Pvpers.
    Hint: Go and join Factions if you are into PvPing.

    My beef with the developers is that Factions is still a Capture the Flag type
    game. I guess they <devs> could not think of anything better.

    On a good note, none of this Faction improvements help me.

    *stares*
    Yahaxithonix
     
  40. Vortex

    Vortex Slightly Crazed
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    I like that better than the current plan. However, to me, it still doesn't solve the problem of faction people fighting non-factioners (especially pvm'ers). Isn't it enough advantage that you can use MI, plus the fact that pvm'ers are wearing lrc or luck and therefore have lame resists?

    Don't get me wrong, I like the risk of being attacked while I pvm. Heck, if I didn't, I would be on a trammel shard. All I'm asking for is a reasonable chance for pvm'ers to defend themselves. MI has got to go.
     
  41. Vortex

    Vortex Slightly Crazed
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    Thats fine and good for pvp'ers. I see it gives them an incentive to join factions, but what about the pvm'ers?
     
  42. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    There is more to pub 56 than faction changes. *nods*
     
  43. Vortex

    Vortex Slightly Crazed
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    Again, you are making the assumption that all people on Siege pvp. They don't. Kat is saying what about the non-factioners (including the pvm ones).
     
  44. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    My recent poll showed that 2 to 1 pefered being unfettered with that PvP only nonsense. *nods*
     
  45. Kage

    Kage Crazed Zealot
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    What are you trying to say about MI? I can assure you most people if they are indeed raiding your pvm event they are not using MI.

    One reason is because all you have to do is all kill them and that breaks there monster ignore. and the spawn/monsters will then attack them.

    If you are trying to say a tamer can not attack a player with MI on then that is not true. MI only works against NPC monsters and will not work against player controlled creatures/monsters.
     
  46. Vortex

    Vortex Slightly Crazed
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    No, I'm aware that it only works against npc monsters. I was not aware that sending a pet on someone would break their MI. I have never seen that to be true. All I know is that many times when spawns that I have been at have been raided, the raiders are running MI and not having to worry about the spawn while the spawners have to worry about the spawn, their attackers, and their lack of decent resist.

    I have a faction character, so I'll test if MI breaks when someone attacks me with a pet. Sorry to doubt you on this one, but having been raided many, many times with people running MI, I'm gonna have to see that to believe it.

    *edit* Maybe I'm misunderstanding? I know that the pet will attack you, but are you saying that it will break the MI and monsters will attack you?
     
  47. Kage

    Kage Crazed Zealot
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    Not sure if it matters but I would make sure the characters are not in the same guild. Also make sure the char with MI on hits back if you miss the pet then it may not break but 99% of the time you hit the pet.
     
  48. Vortex

    Vortex Slightly Crazed
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    Ok, so they gotta attack the pet?
     
  49. Kage

    Kage Crazed Zealot
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    Yes say you have MI on with a Mage, Fencer, archer etc. Ok they are raiding you. you say all guard me they attack you.. your pet goes after them if they swing or shoot it then there MI will be broken.
     
  50. Vortex

    Vortex Slightly Crazed
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    Interesting....I fear I may have to eat my words on this one :sad4: