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Factions, Points, More Items, Stronghold ect

Discussion in 'UO Factions' started by Bama, Jun 7, 2009.

  1. Bama

    Bama Guest

    Ok can I ask why faction armor works in Tram? Why is it that a sytem developed for PVP is benifiting non PVP. I have a mjor problem with this. Oh three shards I play factions, on all three the top ranked folks are thieves and tram based PVm'ers. They steal the sigs dead of night get those points over and over, honor them to their tram charecters then never go to Fel, except when they went to join and buy the Faction items. Now Im sitting in Fel ranked 7 with my points and get to ten and die and drop again. I know I can do the same thing steal with a thief and try to dead of night it. (and working on it soon too) But some people have ccounts in every faction, same name say DOG-C DOG-M ect adn their sole purpose is to raise the points so high that others cant wear level 10 stuff. I see the stratagy here, but is it really as the faction sytem was intended?


    The stronghold's diggernt shards have variations, Origin- doors in Brit, ect. Between all the different factions in general there are great variations. Com short walk from enter to sigil post wide open, guards right at bridge if you own town if not kinda SOL, Shadow lords LONG walk stair casses and 2 one tile doorways. Front room trwo doorways and you can cast outside para fields and poison fields though walls. Brit base short run with 2 two-tile slots. Minax Short run 2 Wide stairs and 2 two tile coridor spots. Heres the thing..
    Can we not make all bases like Minax per'se. Out of towns in the middle of no where same size same runs same tile choke points. Or all bases like Shadow lords, or all like com or all like Brit... See I dont care, Just make them equal.

    The Items we have for factions now are too much, why do we need more items Im hearing that the AOF is inline great, just what we need every mage running it with even beter support armor because they dont need the LRC stuff now.


    The times need to be visable for sigils , Its annoying useing an egg time to figure out appoximately how long there is to guard them. Yes Guard them Not the dead of Night stuff. In this for the faction PVP, not the sneak and hide.

    When holding a sigil to recorrupt it it should be on your post for 15 min to restart time NOT grab it run into your house and wait 15 min log and get another to reset timer. No house entry should be allowed when carrying sig.



    If you agree with me fine if not fine, But please no name calling or anything just posting an opinion and a wish list. Thanks
     
  2. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    I don't really care if trammies have the items, but if they want the reward of faction items then they need to bear the risk of being killed (in trammel rulesets).

    Expand faction pvp to tram and I'm a happy camper.
     
  3. mutau

    mutau Guest

    i 2nd that idea!
     
  4. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    Play Siege. I know it's been said before...but we don't have trammel, and an orange in fel is orange everywhere...la
     
  5. Omnius

    Omnius Crazed Zealot
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    seriously.... Are you really complaining about thieves playing when you're not even logged in?
     
  6. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    You should get used to it. Thieves are blamed for all bad in the game when hackers and cheats can't be...then again, thieves seem to have always been looked at as cheats anyway...la
     
  7. people just hate when there stuff goes missing out of there backpack and your running away laughing :danceb:
     
  8. Omnius

    Omnius Crazed Zealot
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    I played a thief for 9 years of UO. I'm just shocked people are actually accusing thieves of being a problem when they aren't even playing UO.
     
  9. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    There are theives about...we stick to the shadows and are rarely seen, also the majority of my stealing is just to annoy people.

    Steal there bandies/cure pots and fukiya dart them, fist deathstrike and watch them quickly hightail it when they cant cure...sooooooo funny!
     
  10. Black Majick

    Black Majick Certifiable
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    Ill agree. Make them usable in Tram rulesets and make the wearer attackable or make them unwearable in trammel rulesets.
     
  11. Divster

    Divster Guest

    why not simply base ranks on a set lvl of points instead of a percentage of the total faction wide lvl of points? seems the main gripe is over people hogging larger amount of points and not even engaging in pvp therefore making it harder for people to reach upper levels?. If for example there was a set level requirement for each level everyone could achieve the higher levels and at the same time not have to worry about people who get the points and then sit in tram? Its not as if the points mean anything beyond thr ability to access different ranks these days with the point farming thats going on.

    btw i do like the idea of tram being fair ground for faction fighting :p
     
  12. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    Setting the rank to a set point amount would not really work, and it also defeats the purpose of the ranking/point system. The idea is you should be actively involved in factions to keep your rank, so setting it to x points would be the same as removing the ranking or the points all together. I honestly don't understand the point farming, most likely because i don't understand how they can kill the same person, honestly I still don't gain off of some people who i killed 3 months ago, I took a three month break and when I came back it insisted I had already killed at least 4 people, Tho i just assume they could have been at -6 points, I have not even logged on since then because of that. Ok got off topic a slight bit, but i have to disagree with making rank a set number. wipe the points, remove the double and triple point bonus' make the items fel only or move factions back into tram (my only grip with the factions in tram is not having people to rez you, other wise This is idea is fine with me)
     
  13. Invertigo

    Invertigo Guest

    While I agree that factions should be in trammel as well, most would complain that order/chaos is supposed to be both facets and all. What I'd like to see is the faction items unusable in tram facets. This has a couple of advantages.

    1. Takes away the trammel point farmers.
    2. More people would hunt in fel leading to more PvP. If the items they worked for could only be used in Fel why would they go to Trammel to hunt?

    Ok only two I can name off the top of my head, but it's a start.

    Vote for faction arties being purely for factions! Circle one:
    Yes or :danceb:
     
  14. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    Your points on the matter do seem to be the best I have seen. Tho once again I do not really care either way, will always end up being the same for me heh.
     
  15. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    Order/chaos hasnt been around for an age!

    Since warring guilds i believe. So thats a mute point, however the rest i kinda agreed with.
     
  16. Coragin

    Coragin Guest

    Sorry to be a smart ass here, but to answer the original question as to why trams can use the items? Its quite simple, I cannot believe you have not come up with it on your own...

    They pay the same amount per month as you do for the same content. They just get it a different way. Plain and simple.

    As far as theives stealign in the dead of night, well it just makes sense....duh! Theives since the beginning of time have done this. Steal what you want when there is not a crowd. Honestly this is like complaining that cat burglers dont steal in board daylight with the jewelry place open for business. Just dumb.
     
  17. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    Except you missed the point that the same items were only implemented to boost faction PLAY this means in fel only, it is (to the best of my knowledge) the first push to play in fel since powerscrolls were put in. Oh no double resources (was that the same publish? I cant remember) Either way they were not implemented for people in tram to use in tram they were implemented to get people to PLAY factions and you cant do that in tram, they should have just left Factions in tram, but the problem I see with that (and the main reason I think they made the right choice) is non-faction people can not interact with faction people in tram if it is turned on in tram, and if they are allowed to do so in tram then it unbalances the system (same argument that is going on right now with the alliance thing) They need to wipe all the points, and get rid of the double/triple thing that way there would be no way inactive people could keep up with active people since the points would change daily, Aside from that I do not know what to do to fix this, but the quote above was just stupid -.-. As for the stealing, its not the stealing part, its the entire cycle can be done with out anyone else being around, Factions is meant for pvp and war they need to change the sigils back to 10 and 3. hell i would be ok with 24 and 3 but w/e, or limit it to only during x server hours, whatever works.
     
  18. Coragin

    Coragin Guest

    I see your point C&D, however, Trams using these items dont effect factioners in any way. Except in my case where Im on a low populated server and they are abusing the points system. Still thats a code flaw.

    I PvP with only one toon, but I have two in factions. The one I do not pvp with actually uses MORE faction items than the one I do. Simply because his template is setup to do peerless/doom/champs. But mostly peerless.

    Now if they would change the following, I think all would even out.

    1. Make the ranking system "X" points is "X" rank, not percentage.
    2. Lower the amount of time for sigel stealing from 10 hours to 6 hours, or even three. And one char can only do it once per day. (prevents farming points while making it so you do not have to be on 12 hours straight to do it)

    As it sits, I dont care if trams use the arties, hell they are nice. But, the big problem is the way the ranking system is set up, allows Trams to exploit the points system and block legit factioners from reaching level 10. Other than that, the only thing I can tell you on why pvp is dead from specific interaction with my guildies and friends...this is them not me.

    1. If I wasent attacked on sight everywhere, I might goto Fel (This is not meaning factions, it means just rampant killing outside moongates)

    2. It sucks working a champ spawn to have someone come in at the boss wave and get ganked while you are already dealing with a boss and now 3 or more players.

    Thats the main two reasons I have been told people dont goto Fel. Now, while I say adapt, keep trying and learn simple tricks to stay alive, for the most part, they are right. But PvP for me helps keep the mind numbing boredom from setting in from PvM. Which is why I pvp and do high end monsters like peerless, challenge.

    Hope this helps.

    Oh on a side note, a friend I had convinced to join factions with me gave up, because he kept getting ganked by 4-6 people near the faction sign up stone. Funny thing was, they were in the faction he was trying to join. Its things like that, that cause trammies to not want to join in on pvp.

    Lets face it, the vast majority of just kids pvping has ruined it for anyone wanting to come to Fel with mindless killing for no apparant reason at all. In all essence, pvp'rs shot themselfs in the foot by their own actions. Kinda sad really. Its always fun to get that perfect kil or defend against the odds and come out with a win and not an OooOOoOO. lol
     
  19. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    Ok I do not have time to read your entire post (I will get around to it later) but I will comment on the bit I read.

    1. the point system should be based on activity only, so a percentage is best. if you changed it to being x = x then you have no competition and no reason to participate as you will always be x rank.

    2. the sigils times are 8 hours and should be lengthened, how shortening them helps is beyond me, if the times were longer it would allow for people to fight over as intended instead of completely finishing it with out anyone ever noticing (especially on small population shards)

    I don't care if they use them in tram really either but the point stands that the arties were meant to get people to actually play in factions, not go score the points so high that you will never have to set foot in fel again while you sit at luna bank.

    Well...I didn't submit so I read the rest and will reply to it all.

    People who go to fel to pvm should stay in tram. It's pretty much that simple, that or learn to pvp it is not so hard to stay alive even on small pop shards dominated by one huge guild. Or anywhere really, Numbers does not = ability. I am sorry but its that simple "trammies" don't go to fel because they are trammies, not because of anything else. Nothing wrong with that of course but seriously you can not argue that someone who wants to pvm and gets pked and then complains should not be in fel, you go there for the fun of fighting, it does not matter if you win or get ganked it is the thrill of pvping, and pvp is lively as ever. Think of it like this if you want to pvp and go to fel, you have a 100pct chance that you will be fighting someone with in seconds of getting there long as you know where to look, if not it will be minutes. Only other reason to go there is for better rewards, and this comes with a risk that you are well aware of before you go there. I see no real reason why people who stay in tram should benefit from a system for pvp, so keeping the items fel only is the best way to Balance the system. Don't want to die in fel? make friends, the people in fel are not that unfriendly, Sure some are horrible but then I think people from tram are no better if not worse. Where you play does not get you quality of players, both rule sets suffer from the same people who play the game.

    I really do not have anything against fel or tram, I play in both they are both good for what they are meant for, But allowing a (now) fel only system go over to tram, mind as well just make them one facet again the "few" fel players can not possibly over power the entire trammel player base, lets face it there are more people who spend most of their time in tram than there are people who spend their time in fel, its sort of simple just gather more people than they have (usually the larger guilds are made up of mostly weak players and a few good ones, so you stand a good chance of numbers vs numbers)
     
  20. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    Coragins posts shouldn't be taken seriously when it comes to factions and "how things should be". He doesn't PvP.

    Here is what it comes down to. If you want the reward of using cheap faction artifacts, then you should have to deal with the risk associated with being in factions. If you're in factions, you should be an open PvP target in trammel as if it was a guild war.

    As for people getting raided on the last level of the champ spawn... duh? I'm not going to waste my time working it up from the beginning, but if you do I'll gladly take it from you every time I see it happening.
     
  21. Coragin

    Coragin Guest

    Lynk ~ Babbling Loonie

    That actually fits you perfectly.

    I wrote...

    This is why you are the babbling loonie...

    Babbling loonie!

    I am so glad there is a firefox plugin that you can ignore entire posts by people in message boards. You are now added to it Lynk. You may have a high post count, but that does not make you a valued member of the community, well liked or even smart.

    The reason you are added to ignore is, of all the posts I have seen by you, that is all you do is attack people. Thats not what community is all about, but maybe you are too stupid to understand there are other ways of communicating than flaming and trolling.

    Goodbye to you sir, I assure you, reading your messages will not be missed.
     
  22. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    I've been playing in factions for just over 2 1/2 years now. I'm not great at the PvP part of it, but I do try. And if my faction characters (or any character I have, for that matter) die in Fel, I accept it because I knew the risks of going to Fel.

    When the rules were changed last year to eliminate faction balancing, allow more than one character per account into factions on the same shard, and to eliminate the effects of the "no beneficial acts" rule for faction characters while in Trammel, I was not terribly happy with the changes but understood that the developers made these changes to encourage large guilds to join factions. I believe the developers assumed that if the guild leader put the guild into factions, only the folks who really wanted to PvP would venture into Fel and put themselves at risk. Their characters would, however, still be able to participate in activities in Trammel with their guildmates in pretty much the same fashion as everyone was already used to. Life would be peachy-keen for the mega guilds who wanted to accommodate their PvP-hungry members AND their members who wanted nothing to do with PvP or Fel.

    If the changes had stopped at this point, I doubt all that many people who love factions would have stayed unhappy for too long. Heck, we benefited because now we could throw a few more characters into factions and maybe just maybe if we were really addicted to factions could consider closing an account or two. And no more having to worry about whether your latest addition would be able to squeeze into your faction of choice or would you have to use yet another account to dump a useless character into the shard's dinkiest faction to satisfy the balancing rule. And yeah, it was kinda nice to be able to have a stranger rez you in Trammel if you died somewhere inconvenient. But gone were the puzzled reactions of "hey how come I can't heal you" that kinda made your day when you were in Trammel because you knew you had to depend on your mates or be able to fend for yourself in a real pinch.

    So we putzed along last summer and then the bad news started to come down. (At least I thought it was bad news.) Arties for factions. What'll they think of next. I wish I could tell you how things went in the focus group, but I can't. I'll only tell you that my personal reaction to the faction arties and all the other goodies has been to boycott them. It was only last week that a guildmate finally convinced me to get the gloves for one of my archers so she'd have a little more oomph behind her attacks. Got a few of the powders to keep them repaired and one or two potions. All now neatly tucked into my archer's bank box. My faction archers on the other shards have no faction arties and my thieves and tamers....still wearing the clothing they had on the day they joined factions. (And before you ***** at me that I play a stealth archer, save your breath. They're all pally archers, no hiding, no stealth. Always visible, always attackable.) What they have is serviceable and that's good enough for me. Faction arties could all break tomorrow and I'd be perfectly fine with it. Figure it would get a lot of the riff-raff out of factions. Perhaps some of the people who joined factions because of the arties might stick around because they've learned how much fun it can be when you do it with folks who think the same as you and who have no respect or tolerance for the cheaters it brought into the fold or the folks who only joined so they could excel at PvM in Trammel.

    Do I want factions to spill over into Trammel? No, not really. I'm just not good enough at PvP at this point to cherish the idea of always having to look over my shoulder everywhere I go. I'm also maxed out time-wise and funds-wise building characters. I just don't want to build more non-faction archers. My head hurts thinking about it. I just want things to go back to how they were...factions is in Fel and it doesn't spill over into Trammel. Come up with another way, please, to give people who don't want anything to do with Fel a better way to get useful arties to support their PvM characters. That's what I really want....
     
  23. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    Good, so you won't be offended by my follow up post reiterating how bad you are at UO and every idea you've ever posted is about as useful as a DVD instructional video on making a paper airplane.
     
  24. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    Just wanted to add another thought here about why I hate the introduction of the faction arties so much.

    It seems to me that the way the point system has been changed (including points for thieves) has in many cases served to put a lot more emphasis on individual faction characters. I believe that people who have been in factions for a while generally understand just how vital teamwork is to having fun in factions. (Note that I said "fun," not "success.") However, I think that the point system changes and the arties have totally distracted many folks, especially those who have never been in factions before or left it long ago. All those things do is put undue emphasis, in my opinion, on what someone achieves as an individual. The points and the arties and the shortened corruption and purification times totally overshadow and devalue what faction guilds and alliances achieve as a group.

    The teamwork in factions is what made me love being in factions. It's what keeps me in factions now. Points mean nothing to me as a novice PvPer. It's nice to have enough rank to be able to ride a war horse, but even that "perk" has less meaning to me than knowing I will have a good time, win or lose, doing stuff with guildmates and playing cat-and-mouse or fighting with an enemy.

    Eh, I've said too much today now. Sorry if ya got bored trying to get through all my posts.
     
  25. Omnius

    Omnius Crazed Zealot
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    No good factioner runs without a guild. Even if its small. I run small faction guilds with an emphasis on team play. as a result we all obtain high scores, die rarely and nobody cares about points so long as we're all rank 10.
     
  26. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    What do you think of having to satisfy any one of the following requirements within the previous 72 hour period in order to be able to equip any faction arty:

    (1) Touch the stone in your faction's stronghold (i.e., the one in the sigil room).
    (2) Touch your faction's sign-up stone.
    (3) Steal a sigil.
    (4) Carry a sigil.
    (5) Remove an enemy faction's trap.
    (6) Kill an enemy faction character inside his or her stronghold.
    (7) Kill an enemy faction's NPC guard.
     
  27. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    Edit: Sorry this is long but I suppose it is needed to actually explain things =\

    I personally have no real objection to this, but I can think of a few (since I recently spent more than 72 hours away).

    (1) To easy for the current people in tram to do with out any real danger (trust me its easy to touch the stone, just buy a bunch of runes poof in touch recall)
    (2) see number one
    (3) This one could work I suppose since I doubt many faction thieves would play in tram or they just don't use the current artie sets.
    (4) most likely to easy considering thieves can enter houses and this removes any danger to the event so again to easy for people in tram to do.
    (5) Don't know about this one?
    (6) This might not be so bad it could improve faction fighting but the trouble I see with this is everyone flocking away from their base or to their base only and then you would not really be able to meet it as enemies would be locked in the opposite area of where you would need to kill them for the rule (if you change it to inside ANY base that could work better, but I still think it would be easy for people who don't intend to fight in factions to do this and not have to worry about anyone killing them, especially on the smaller pop shards?)

    Now aside from each point I think it would affect people who rely on some of the arties for their suit and do not have replacement items and do not get to play ever 72 hours or even less often, but this to me does not matter I play handicapped all the time I just don't think other legit players who actually cant do those things for possibly a month at a time (I know someone who can not log on while they are away for work and it is usually for a month or more that they are away) but of course this argument could be void by understanding some people might have less than 30 points and still not be able to use their items when they return since they would have less points than required, but its not always the case and could still become a problem for some.
     
  28. Omnius

    Omnius Crazed Zealot
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    yeah it's typical of many multi shard pvpers to play some shards more in stints. You might ignore one of your shards for up to a month before things get you interested in the pvp scene there.

    Keep in mind, most big time pvpers play 3 or more shards.
     
  29. Altec

    Altec Guest

    i like the fact that all the strongholds are not the same.

    And one thing i think that could fix the rest of these problems is more control over your own faction. I think you should be able to vote guilds out of your faction. I also think u should have to be in a guild to be in factions. this would solve alot of problems. Factions is ment to be a team sport work with your guild and other guilds in your faction to control towns and control sigs and most importantly your own faction. all that would have to be done is each guild leader of a guild in a faction gets a vote once a every 2 weeks to vote a guild out. if a guild gets a majority vote against them they leave and cannot return to that faction for a month.

    I also think they should only allow so many guilds into one factions.

    This would most likely get rid of all the trammy guilds in factions and all the guilds that join factions just to steal a factions traps or to attack members of the same faction.
     
  30. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    I agree with some of what you say Rob, but people could exploit this rule by just making a new guild to rejoin and grief.

    It's nice that the strongholds are different, but CoM desperately needs a better base, that one is extremely difficult to defend. Not a single fieldable passage in the whole base.
     
  31. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    It is more difficult but they also can utilise faction guards if they own the towns?

    I think it would be nice to see more control of factions, i also think it would be nice to have a "faction sig" of some sort so that SL and Minax can do as COM and TB do and place guards outside there bases.

    Some new addition to towns would be good, maybe a faction imbuing?(post SA of course) at the moment all there is to fight for is horses and vendors. I just think it might be nice to add something, im not sure what, to boost interest in the towns again...oh and bring back the old timers.
     
  32. Altec

    Altec Guest

    yeah you could make a new guild and rejoin but maybe they could design factions so that just because u are in factions does not mean u hold control over a base. That way you do not lose all your points when voted out you just become baseless and become orange to all factions. Who knows maybe people would prefer being a baseless faction if they liked fighting everyone.

    When you are baseless you lose access to the turn in spots at the bases and rank 10 is not achievable by a baseless faction member.
     
  33. Clovenator

    Clovenator Guest

    I guarantee if they made it to where factions could fight in Trammel then half the newbs that join wouldn't be in factions anymore. They need to just do that. I'm tired of all these trammies joining factions to reap the benefits, but not to truly earn them.
     
  34. Altec

    Altec Guest

    wellu should know that is not going to happen becuase uo made a huge move in othe direction when the made it that bene rules did not apply in tram. it is very rare that uo moves backwards after doing something even if it turns out to be a mistake.