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Factions Testing Commencement

Discussion in 'Archive of Previous Tests' started by Phoenix_Mythic, Apr 14, 2010.

  1. Phoenix_Mythic

    Phoenix_Mythic UO Legend
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    Greetings!

    We have been working hard on making some major updates to the Factions system, and we are now commencing public testing of these changes. They represent some significant changes to the Factions system. As such, we feel it is important to do extensive public testing and gather as much feedback as we can.

    First and foremost, please be assured that we will make very sure these changes are as well tested and debugged as possible before publish. Even though these Factions system updates are now in testing, this does not by any means signal our intent to publish them with the next live update. In Publish 65, we added a new feature that allows us to patch out alternative maps for testing while leaving the Live versions untouched. This gives us the ability to keep the Factions changes in parallel development and hold off on publishing them to the live game for as long as needed.

    You are invited to join the public playtest of the Factions system changes. You will find a test shard named "Factions" on the server list. This server is dedicated to testing the Factions changes, but it has all the normal test center features enabled. Please, create a character, join a faction, and come join the fight!

    Please utilize this forum to offer feedback, report bugs, and discuss your experiences. I will be here frequently to take in the feedback and answer questions in depth.

    Here is a quick rundown of the things you can expect to see:

    1> There are now three factions. Their names (Crusaders of Virtue, Guardian’s Legion, and Free Tradesmen) are temporary placeholders, and deciding on the final names is one point we would very much like feedback on. The three factions’ philosophies are all opposed to each other – each faction can find evil in the purpose and deeds of the other two. They have updated blurbs on their recruitment stones.

    2> Each of the three factions has a new stronghold. Two of the strongholds have been placed in newly-renovated mountainous areas. The former Minax stronghold is now the home of the Guardian’s Legion, but the base has been completely rebuilt. All of the bases are completely unique, including their layouts, architectural style, and furnishings. They are designed to present interesting choices for assault and defense.

    3> The score system has been completely reworked. The new system scores players in combat based on the following actions: damaging enemies, healing allies, stealthing, revealing stealth, and fighting in the presence of of town sigils. These scores are designed not to accumulate continuously but instead to act as ongoing ratings that compare players against each other. This means that scores will fluctuate up and down over time based on ever-changing conditions. It is the intent that the new score system measure actual real-world player performance in combat, instead of being a value that accumulates over time. Score is now awarded for overall performance in battle rather than simply for scoring kills or corrupting sigils. As such, it is no longer possible to transfer points between players.

    4> The ranking system has been altered. There are now only 8 ranks. Each rank has a unique name. The names of the lower four ranks are the same for all factions, and each faction has unique names for its higher four ranks. There is also a new Rank 0, named “Deserter”, which is reserved for those who join factions but never fight in a battle. Ranks have some minimum participation requirements in terms of time spent in Faction combat. Ranks are otherwise distributed based on overall player score, with only a very small percentage of players able to attain the highest rank. Assignment of ranks depends on active (i.e. non-Deserter) players in each Faction. A player may only be promoted or demoted one rank per day. The "punkte" speech command now opens a UI window that shows you your score breakdown and gives you a sense of how your performance relative to your faction mates may or may not merit you a promotion in rank.

    5> Faction artifacts now have lower rank requirements, because it will be difficult to attain maximum rank. The highest tier of Faction artifacts will require Rank 5, which is sufficiently difficult to attain but not so difficult that only a handful of players will be able to use them.

    6> There are now in-game leaderboards that update hourly. Each stronghold will have one set of leaderboards for its own faction, and a set of all-factions leaderboards. These will list players in order of overall score, the five sub-scores, and also by total kill count and kill ratio.

    At this point I do not want to go into too much detail about the updates to the score system. In the near future I will begin offering more details about how it actually works. But for now, I just want you to play the system, form opinions about whether the new score system seems fair and accurate, and tell us what you think!

    Happy playtesting! I’ll be joining in, anonymously of course, so I’ll probably see you there...



    (note: the server is expected to go live at 3:00 PM EDT on 14 April)
     
  2. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    Are there any other changes in this? Such as sigil times, silver, stat loss, anything but the point system, names, and bases?
     
  3. Phoenix_Mythic

    Phoenix_Mythic UO Legend
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    Right now the sigil timers and the process for taking towns are unchanged. Updates to town conquest are on the radar for the future, not this initial Factions update.

    Silver is the same, as are the stat loss timers. We are planning on making tweaks to these things as the playtest progresses, with an eye towards including those changes with the first Live publish of this system change.

    Our current line of thinking is to reduce the statloss timer but not completely eliminate it.
     
  4. Merion

    Merion Lore Master
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    A lot of questions arise!

    First off: What are the incentives to corrupt sigils? You don't mention that in the actions that give score points!

    Also:
    I fear this may be tough on semi-casual players like me. I may be as good in PvP as I might, someone who spends all his time in fel faction fighting will be a higher rank than me, even if I'm the better PvPer and would be able to kill him 9 out of 10 times.
    Not sure if I like this...
     
  5. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    Just a few opinions here to toss around:

    Defending sigils takes an extremely long time for little to no reward. If holding a city granted the holding faction some sort of greater power, it might be ok.

    i have no issue with silver, was just curious after reading something about there being alot of silver in the game.


    And finally stat loss. This is only my opinion and some may differ on this, but if i play say... 30mins to an hour at a time, and i walk out and die right off the bat which would suck, the 20minute timer is just irritating, if it was something more like 10minutes, long enough for you to be penalized, re-equip and get back into the fight, i think that would be sufficient. either that or some sort of a calculation for stat loss, bossed on if it is in/near a base, number of people flagged to you, etc etc. oh, and definitly a visible timer, say ur status bar, would be VERY nice.
     
  6. A Rev

    A Rev Guest

    Edit:

    Should read the whole post!
     
  7. Trevelyan

    Trevelyan Guest

    I love how "punkte" is used as the name here, even though it isn't English :D

    So what happens to current faction items?
     
  8. How will it work when it starts?

    Obviously we won't be able to use our faction arties when we have to rejoin so what happens then? Nobody will have points and to be honest I don't even have a suit to play without using faction items... Seems like the start of it will be pretty gay...
     
  9. Arabella

    Arabella Lore Keeper
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    How about the coordinates to the new bases?
     
  10. A Rev

    A Rev Guest

    Most people, not saying all but most, have not become completely dependant on faction arties.

    All it will mean is changing a few pieces about, its not like youll be at a disadvantage...everyone else will have to do the same...so i dont see any problem with it.
     
  11. Trevelyan

    Trevelyan Guest

    Hmm, I only see TC1
     
  12. Storm

    Storm UO Forum Moderator
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    Me also!
     
  13. A Rev

    A Rev Guest

    This is why
     
  14. Trevelyan

    Trevelyan Guest

    No such timezone, but in EDT its already 3:20.
     
  15. Storm

    Storm UO Forum Moderator
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    Thanks did not even see that!
     
  16. Mark_Mythic

    Mark_Mythic UO Legend
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    Since there will be a couple of months between now and when this hits a live server, players will have time to make an alternate suit. All faction artifacts are just replicas of PVE artifacts, so if you really gotta have it, then you can farm it from PVE.

    IMO a good imbued suit is plenty good to start. It's not going to be the tip top, but as you point out, nobody is going to have the new faction artifacts so it will be a level playing field.

    Anyway, we hope you will come on over to the Factions TC and check it out.

    As Mike mentioned, this is just the beginnings... provided there is support from the players to move forward. Cal's not going to let us keep working on it if noone seems to be interested. We are really excited about these changes so I hope you all well at least create a character on the Faction TC and check it out for yourself.
     
  17. A Rev

    A Rev Guest

    No ter mur on faction?

    You cannot use Ter Mur Gate, thats pretty gay!
     
  18. Stupid Miner

    Stupid Miner Guest

    ... not typically something I'd bother to mention but... "PvM" has cultural heritage to UO. "PvE" doesn't. And until we're able to destroy mountains and buildings and pollute lakes and preform deforestization through flagrant acts of conflagration, "PvE" doesn't make much sense. :D
     
  19. Phoenix_Mythic

    Phoenix_Mythic UO Legend
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    The moongate link to Ter Mur has been activated.
     
  20. Trevelyan

    Trevelyan Guest

    Funny, the sigils for CV dont show - theyre on the roof I guess
     
  21. A Rev

    A Rev Guest

    Thank you...now why cant things be so swift on prodo shards :p
     
  22. Trevelyan

    Trevelyan Guest

    Lots of killpoints :D

    [​IMG]
     
  23. Locryn Finck

    Locryn Finck Guest

    I'm sorry, but that just isn't true. Part of the reasons factions have become so prevalent is because people are compelled to join for the prohibitively powerful bonuses to faction items. They are NOT just replicas, they are vastly more powerful and instantly allow for a faction character to assemble a suit better than even the BEST farmable items. 3 MR on the Orny? Crystaline Ring with 3 fcr? Hit chance on the warrior talisman? The list goes on.

    Are you going to remove these bonuses from the new items? Please god do it. Set the pvprs free.
     
  24. lucitus

    lucitus UOEC Modder
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    Another question is here, what is with crafting are crafting people in factions are useless? Is there a new bless system planned or any other goodie for a need of a good faction worker? Artifacts who wants that, if you have a nice with love crafted armor!
     
  25. Freelsy

    Freelsy Babbling Loonie
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    Before going live, is it possible to take a look at the silver prices on Siege? Since its now harder to obtain said items, can we get a reduction in silver prices to that of normal production servers?
     
  26. Nonel

    Nonel Sage
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    The bases are junk. The distances between them, and in relation to moongate locations, is simply too far and the bases are far too open. CV base makes old CoM base look like a stronghold.

    It'll take an army to stop a skilled thief, now.
     
  27. blueturtle

    blueturtle Lore Keeper
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    whats with the secret entrance at the old minax base in the south side of the mountain
     
  28. Phoenix_Mythic

    Phoenix_Mythic UO Legend
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    The intent of the design is for score to rate players on the same scale regardless of whether they play a lot or a little. In other words, someone who plays eight hours a day but sucks would have a lower score than someone who plays 1 hour a week but owns. The low-score guy wouldn't be able to attain high rank because of low score, but the high-score guy wouldn't be able to attain high rank because of low participation.

    The levels of participation required for each rank are actually not that high. Meeting the time requirements should be the easy part. Fighting well enough to raise your score should be the difficult part.

    I'd also like to note that at this time I will speak a lot about the intended results of the design, without speaking much about the details of the design. The details will come later.

    I'm not being coy for its own sake. This playtest needs to tell us whether the system is functioning as intended. For now, I'd like everyone to play the system and make discoveries about it, to be able to offer feedback based on actual experience instead of theorycraft and speculation.
     
  29. Phoenix_Mythic

    Phoenix_Mythic UO Legend
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    I think this would be an appropriate change to make. However, I'd like more feedback on it before making a final decision.
     
  30. Nonel

    Nonel Sage
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    The sig running distance from base-to-base is insane. It'll take entire groups of people running sigs throughout the day, now, in order to keep factions fun and "happening". This isn't likely. Generally through the off hours the only real faction activity that can be found is a thief or two working the sigs.
     
  31. tink'r_toiz

    tink'r_toiz Journeyman
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    I agree with Nonel (I know, not a shock) but I think the devs are out of touch with real factions. PVP may happen actively for a few hours a day but it is the thieves that generally keep the sigs in play and moving to provide the reason for the PVP. With the amount of time it will require to run 8 sigs between bases, very few will physically have the time to invest on a daily basis and the burn out factor will be extreme.

    While the ideal is that factions is a group activity the reality is that it is often one or two lone and lonely thieves maintaining the vigil on off hours. You have basically created an impossible situation for them to maintain the refreshing/running of the sigils. There are many many times that even on an active shard there are no additional faction mates to help run sigs when it is crucial to refresh.

    PVP will not happen at these bases except when sigs are in them. They won't be active but every three days if you don't have thieves willing to invest the time and work to run them on off hours. Refreshing sigils is a vital function to stimulate pvp in factions.

    In my opinion, this is all geared toward passifying the more vocal pvp group and not a well balanced solution to the faction issues. *ducks*... HEY... I said it was my opinion!
     
  32. Vaelix

    Vaelix Guest

    Most of us on Siege agree that faction items cost way to much considering we lose them upon death. I made a very detailed post on Uhall that, sadly, turned into a Large argument.

    However, doing the math, Farming silver with a Mage using EVs in Blighted Grove (Which is basically the fastest way possible) I could turn out about 12k An hour in Silver. A General mage suit will cost 85k In silver (Folded steel, RBC, Feys, Crimson, Orny, Cryst Ring).

    Now with that in mind, your looking at about 6 Hours and 30 Minutes of *Pure* Farming (At the fastest way possible) Before you can make an effective mage suit. Some players can do this, some cant, However, when you add in the reality of the fact that we lose these suits upon death, The price and time it requires players to run effective suits, this really discourages them from pvping at all.

    Some players generally only play for lets say 3 Hours a Day, This means that they need to dedicate 2 Days of their play time to Pure Farming, before they can make a suit for their character, which can be lost within seconds in pvp to a very simple mistake.

    The end result of this is that the powergamers and people who can dedicate much more time into the game have access to the gear, where as the subpar players and those who only play a few hours a day do not.

    Lowering the Cost to that of Production should increase the ammount of players that are willing to pvp, considering it will not take 5+ Hours of Farming for a single Suit.

    ---------------------------------------------------

    This is my post from UHall, sorry to take over this thread, but with the way we've seen the PvP Population decrease within the past few months. Something needs to be done, and The Faction Arite System is the most balanced way possible in the game currently.

    ---------------------------------------------------

    Recently (LoL) Siege perilous has become a ghost town, Many of the preexisting players have begun quitting / deactivating their accounts.

    The main reason behind this, Is the cost of Faction Gear (Silver Costs x5 Prodo Cost).

    Now some players on Siege believe the removal of faction gear will bring more players back and encourage more PvP, However this is a Delusion. Items like the faction gears are required in the PvP that UO has evolved to, Without Faction Gear, Siege Perilous will become a Bushy / Dexxer Fest (With the remaining players that enjoy this type of pvp).

    The Removal of Faction Gear on Siege perilous should not be even considered for the Following Reasons. (We do not have insurance, therefore we lose gear upon death)

    1. Faction Arties (Or Arties in general) are required for Any Mage to Fight *Any* Dexxer, With the Imbalance of HCI and HLD versus DCI.

    2. Faction Arties can be Farmed by almost *Any* PvP Template(Silver). Before faction Arties, players basically had to dedicate their 1 character (1 Per Account) To some form of Tamer due to the Impossibility of Farming with a Non Tamer / Sampire Type Character, Effectively forcing them to have 2 Accounts ( 1 PvPer, 1 PvMer ) In order to actually play the game. Some would argue, just buy the items with Gold. Even gold farming (In ammounts to be able to afford arties) Would need some Pure PvM template, once again forcing players to have 2 accounts.

    3. Faction Items actually encourage PvP, they can be obtained at an Unlimited quanity, thus making it *Much* easier to Re-Equip upon Death. Opposed to No Longer Spawning Cursed Arties, Rare ToT Arties (If they decide to start the drops each year for X ammout of time) or ML Arties which can take anywhere from an Hour to a Week to get the artie you are looking for. (Example Totem of the Void) Which is lost Upon Death.

    ----------------------------------------------------------

    What needs to be done is, Lower the Faction Costs of Arties to that of Production, for the following reasons.

    1. We lose our Gear Upon Death, at the current cost its rather challenging to replace gear very quickly unless you have near unlimited time to farm.

    2. Players that cannot spend Hours upon Hours farming, have begun running Stealth based templates, Which gives them the option of Smoke Bombing when in trouble, Effectively making them impossible to Kill without a Detector. However, when you run a Detector/Tracking Based Character ( I have ) Players which rely on stealth to Survive completely stop PvPing because the reality of losing their gear becomes more apparent. (Due to smoke bombs being near useless against a Intelligent Detector) This results in, Gank Based PvP with Stealth, or PvP Stopping for the day when a Detector comes out.

    3. I have no problem Farming Silver, this is because i work strange hours and am able to Play at times when others are asleep, However, most players can only play on Peak hours (When most people are on) Therefore, farming silver without being disturbed is rather impossible, which *Greatly* lowers the speed at which you can Farm.

    4. A Typical Mage Suit involves the following Artifacts, Faction : Orny, Crystal Ring, Crimson Cinture, Fey Leggings, Folded Steel Glasses, Rune Beetle Carapace. (Or Inquis Gloves instead of Crystal Ring) This is 85-90K Silver. I farm Silver in Blighted on a Mage with EVs, This is basically the *Fastest* way to farm silver. I average 12K Per Hour. Which means at basically the fastest silver farming rate, It takes me 6 Hours at 30 Mins to Farm a Proper Faction Mage Suit (6 Hours and 30 Mins of *Pure* Farming).

    5. A Typical Dexxer Suit involves the following Artifacts, Faction : Storm Grips, Rune Beetle Carapace, Fey Leggings, Primer Tali, Spirit of the Totem, Crimson Cinture. (Possible Ring of Vile, Or Hunteres Headress) This is 55-65K Silver, Once again, At basically the Fastest Possible Farming rate, It is still around 5 Hours of *Pure* Farming.

    6. Most players do not have the time to invest into farming (At the times i listed above) In order to PvP for a *Single* Death.

    7. Alot of us just wanna PvP, The normal prices on production shards for Faction Gear allows this, Replacing a Proper Mage Suit goes from 6 hours and 30 Minutes of *Pure* Farming, to Average, 1 Hour and 20 Minutes, to 2 Hours and 30 Minutes. Thus encouraging more players to log on and PvP.

    8. The Farming Times i Listed are *My* Rates.. 85K of Silver for 6 Hours and 30 Mins of Farming, is *Only* Possbile when left completely Alone, Which for most players, is never the case. Therefore it could take anywhere from 10 Hours to 5 Days to Farm up a Proper suit, Which can be lost within Seconds to a Simple mistake in PvP.

    --------------------------------------------------------------

    With all the recent talk of Changes to the Faction System and all, Im really hoping this will be addressed in Some Sort of way.

    Even a Responce with a reason why it wont be would be much appreciated. Though i do not expect a Dev response, Thank you in advance.

    ~ Skwis.
     
  33. Locryn Finck

    Locryn Finck Guest

    Anybody else want a response on the untruth regarding "Faction items are replicas of PVE items"

    No they are NOT! The bonuses on them have practically ruined pvp on most shards and forced people into factions. It is a HUGE deal, and the Dev gets it wrong? Speak up people.
     
  34. Freelsy

    Freelsy Babbling Loonie
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    Understood. I will post on the Siege Perilous forum and see what kind of response we can come up with. I will report back what I find at a later time.


    Thanks
     
  35. Arabella

    Arabella Lore Keeper
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    Make a thief Mike, and come run the sigils with us. Better yet, make a thief on a production shard that has active factions and run with us.
     
  36. Merion

    Merion Lore Master
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    This! Definitely this!

    Controlling Towns is the core feature of Factions and should be more rewarding.
     
  37. Førsaken

    Førsaken Guest

    QFT.
     
  38. Speedy Orkit

    Speedy Orkit Grand Inquisitor
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    Silver prices on Siege need to be reduced. Plain and simple. 100k silver for a single suit is insane.
     
  39. Kurisu

    Kurisu Guest

    How will this new system effect players who prefer to play alone or in small guilds of a half dozen or so compared to larger guilds that hold a few dozen at a time on the field? Was that taken into account by chance? Is it going to be harder for the smaller based groups to rank and score higher just because they're fightning against more odds and may possibly die more often?

    Also why only three factions? It seems like 4 factions isn't even enough and this is going to be real upsetting to a lot of players I'd think. This is going to make it more annoying when in situations like where same faction guilds grief eachother and help opposite factions because it's going to happen more. Not to mention the inability to put your own pets on the same faction reguardless if they're in your guild, alliance or even considered "friendly".
     
  40. Merion

    Merion Lore Master
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    1. Please keep the faction artis, I like them because they are superior to what you can get in Trammel.
    Also, with these artis and imbuing, everyone can build a near perfect suit. And that is a good thing! Because then PvP depends on player skill again and not on having the best items (which were prone to duping).

    2. You can't get some of the normal anymore - the Tokuno ones.

    3.
    I think this is perfectly resonable

    4. I agree with the distances between faction bases being to far and that thieves are the most active faction players and shouldn't be griefed so much, more the other way round.

    5.
     
  41. Locryn Finck

    Locryn Finck Guest


    Thats the whole point. To have PVP items on par with the elite in the game, you MUST join factions. Hence, any pvpr who wants to pvp at a high level joins factions. What ends up happening? It DESTROYS general pvp. Statloss at spawns kills spawning raid/defense mechanics. It creates roving gank squads and kills solo pvp. Nobody wants to fight 6v1 with statloss, so they simply don't show up. It brings down action across the board in pvp. All because of items. If the items WERE actually just straight up replicas, this wouldn't be an issue. But the bonuses being so MASSIVE force the issue.
     
  42. Skylocke

    Skylocke Guest

    Basically this has been said already, but it is important to bring up so that it may be addressed by the Devs, hopefully.

    There needs to be a larger reward for defending/controlling towns. That should be the primary focus of the factions (along with defending/assaulting the main bases).

    Faction arties are too simply way overpowered. The vast majority of my friends who still play UO only bothered with factions to get the arties. These items need to be adjusted to be on par with the PvM arties, or even a hair weaker. It is just my opinion, but I would like to see progressive steps away from itemization anyways. This is not WoW.
     
  43. SoulWeaver

    SoulWeaver King of The Bearded Ladies
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    I am a Siege Player i to also believe they should be reduced to normal rates. For many reasons we've brought attention to each other you'll see most of us want this change.
     
  44. ATLPvPer

    ATLPvPer Journeyman
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    I'm concerned about this whole "stealthing" being used as a means to gain faction participation. Is there a combination of stealthing along with multiple other factors needed to gain points/participation?
    Otherwise this seems extremely exploitable. People will not be guarding bases 24/7, and it is extremely hard in today's UO to stop stealthers. How to you plan to combat a person with multiple accounts, one stealthing, and the other set to use detect hidden? Both gaining points and exploiting the system.
     
  45. Davy

    Davy Journeyman
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    I agree with this 100%
     
  46. tink'r_toiz

    tink'r_toiz Journeyman
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    I agree the new "points system" can easily be exploited and was just discussing this very thing with another veteran player. Both stealther and healer credit will be an issue.
     
  47. Chap

    Chap Babbling Loonie
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    I hope the devs dont forget how many people are comming back to the game now that you can make a PvP suit without playing 24/7 for months.
    I have in the past days seen people on my shard i have not seen for years, and they all run around PvP,
    just for the simple fact that donating silver made PvP suit reasonable to get.

    If people dont have the time to play alot to get a working pvp suit,
    then UO loses out the people who log in an hour from time to time.
    Please keep in mind PvP is not about items.

    no matter what kind of PvP system there is, it needs people who play it.
    Include, dont exclude.
     
  48. [JD]

    [JD] Guest

    With the removal of the ability to transfer points between players, I am very concerned with the new scoring system.

    There are certain types of characters which will always be more effective with the "battle" part of factions. Currently those characters are PVP mages and PVP ABC archers.

    As a stealth archer I don't have the power to kill many easily. I dismount for my guild and maybe I get a pop shot now and then but getting kills goes to those I mentioned above.

    I receive nothing for my efforts in scouting and relaying information, except dirtnaps when I am discovered.

    My guildmates give me points to help me. With that taken away, I have no idea how I will get points.

    If I read correctly you may begin awarding points for other things which are important in a battle BESIDES just killing people on insane fast connections/computers with 10 years of PVP experience behind us.

    I would like to see things like: stealth scouting, healing, resurrecting of comerades, fighting while statted (showing extra bravery against the odds) etc all add up and provide points. And what of the faction imbuer who made the armor for all the guild's fighters? And of course, the actual killing in the heat of battle.

    All I ask is that you pay attention to scoring for those of us who are not the show stopping uber battle people.
     
  49. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

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    The new bases are begging to be exploited using z-axis tricks. They are also so large that you could never hope to catch someone who is stealthing around. I already spot one way to get a non-faction character inside.

    They are not even design like a stronghold should be. Who builds a castle with a million inter-connecting rooms and entrances? You have no chance of controlling a fight. There needs to be choke points.

    Every base already has a fundamental design flaw: overhang on the main entrance. Attackers won't be able to see anyone inside to target.
     
  50. Vexxed

    Vexxed Certifiable
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    JD... Being the dismounter of the group is indeed an important roll.. Perhaps if someone is dismounted & killed within the 10 second remount timer the person who dismounted them should get a fraction of the kill points?


    STATLOSS is good.... the timer might be able to be lowered but the consequences of say a Despise fight where there's not statloss can be quite lame.. When the possiblity of simply "out ressing" your opponent becomes a Valid PvP tactic THAT'S BAD lol...