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FC 4 chiv so annoying

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Nadirian_Wrath, Apr 16, 2008.

  1. unlimited mana
    2 tic heals
    1 tic HL/RC/cure
    no overcast

    = no timing. Impossible for a mage to kill 1 v 1

    That is all
     
  2. Guest

    Guest Guest

    *hands a tissue over*

    Ive seen many mages kill chiv healers.
     
  3. Nixon[I-C]

    Nixon[I-C] Certifiable
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    <blockquote><hr>

    *hands a tissue over*

    Ive seen many mages kill chiv healers.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    If it's a mage then that's the sign of a poor chiv mage then. Chiv mages really shouldn't be dying 1vs1 on the field.

    Speaking as someone who plays a chiv/healing/nox mage, it's virtually impossible for me to die 1vs1, unless I lag or make a huge error in judgement.

    This has been overlooked. Chivarly used in conjuction with magery and the +skill items. There should be a cap somewhere along the line. Templates like mine are just wrong and pretty unbalanced.

    As usual Nadir is spot on, there should be a harder cap on Chiv.
     
  4. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I am pretty sure if you are running chiv+Magery you chiv is capped at fast cast 2 so if you think you are casting 4/6 chiv you are not...
     
  5. Nixon[I-C]

    Nixon[I-C] Certifiable
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    He's speaking about killing dexers rather than mages (I assume). My post was more of a reply to Omni. Sorry made that a bit unclear.
     
  6. <blockquote><hr>

    *hands a tissue over*

    Ive seen many mages kill chiv healers.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    yeah bs. harm spray with a 3 tic spread (including targeting and overcast) is the fastest we can consistantly layer dmg. And that's if we are standing still. With the odd delayed dmg spell(firebal,flame,ebolt, etc) followed by magic arrow giving a 1 tic spread after (chant time of first spell) + 1.2sec.

    You can't combo 3 necro/mage spells that don't give huge windows that anybody who knows where his RC/cure/cw keys are can easily heal through. The hardest thing a chiv dexer has to time is CW betwwen harms. And he simply needs to hold down his key till it fires. If a mage does that he overcasts and never gets a target cursor. Makes tight timing between spells that more skilled.

    Anyway 2 teamplay mages can kill 2 anything so np there. Just frustrated a template that requires years of practice to be good can't kill somthing that takes 2 hours to master 1 v 1
     
  7. Redxpanda

    Redxpanda Lore Keeper
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    Tic
    Tic spread
    FC4
    Layer Dmg
    RC/cure/cw
    Overcast

    ARGH!!!

    *Grabs head and looks for excedrin*
     
  8. This is new to me.....duh/.....what is chivalry used for? and is the magery the main offensive skill or are both used equally offense and defense? Please educate me [​IMG]
     
  9. themaster879

    themaster879 Guest

    I don't like 4/6 chiv either but what can you do? :/
     
  10. `Lynk

    `Lynk Guest

    It is hard and you'll never get a 4/6er with your normal poison lock.

    Bleed or a well timed stun punch seems to do the trick. Also, if you let yourself get 1/2 life they tend to get greedy and go for the kill and stop healing after every spell.


    **Edit** Disarm usually helps too, as it takes them from 4/6 to 3/6 (in most cases, unless they are using the orny and no fc 1 wep)
     
  11. Yenji Yasagari

    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

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    I'll put it in perspective for everyone. You cannot kill anyone with 4/6 chiv, if your standing next to them after unloading an explosion poison *lands* harm harm harm harm harm as they are stuck in a field. It is impossible, straight up. A DP dexxer MIGHT be able to do it if they have the VERY best equipment. As of now, its impossible for a mage of any sorts to even compete against 4/6 chiv.
     
  12. NB-Cats

    NB-Cats Lore Master
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    Nadir is right but if he was as good as me he wouldn't care that much.
     
  13. Yenji Yasagari

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    As of now, you cannot even catch a 4/6 chiv in a weaken cycle, on a side note.
     
  14. Cogniac

    Cogniac Grand Inquisitor
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    In the past I have suggested making it a 2/6 cap across the board for all templates, but that usually just starts a massive flamewar. So this time I'll just suggest lowering the cap on chivalry to 3/6.
     
  15. `Lynk

    `Lynk Guest

    any template with Chivalry and 4/6 casting
     
  16. doesn't that 4/6 casting only effect the casting of chivalry spells? If so, the only spell that would make much of a difference would be close wounds, and cleanse by fire. Is that one reason my paladin does so much better than my mage against the fallen warriors? or is this just in a pvp only situation?

    after all, he's still interuptable, even with 110 resist, and 4/6 fc/fcr.
     
  17. Guest

    Guest Guest

    With 4 FC, Close Wounds casts as fast as a Mage with 2 FC casts a Heal, 1st level spell, but CW heals 30s damage, 3 times as much as Heal. As soon as you hit your macro for Cleanse By Fire, it's ready to be cast basically. 4/6 Casting on a Chiv Warrior makes them incredibly hard to kill. However, there's a trade off (Somewhat). Generally Meleers with 4/6 Casting lack HCI/DCI, because they have to focus they're jewelry on FC/FCR. However, there is some VERY nice jewelry out there that has HCI/DCI/FC/FCR. Most 4/6 Warriors you see are using a Orny+Inquis Resolution for 2/6 Casting, then Ring and Shield has FC 1. Orny and Inquisitor's Resolution are pretty expensive (Especially the Inquisitor's Resolution, despite it having the [censored] duped out of it).
    4/6 Casting is the only way a Warrior can heal as fast as a mage can.
     
  18. Guest

    Guest Guest

    There are plenty of ways to kill a 4/6chiv warrior.

    But things should not be nerfed because a template has problems overcoming it. Things should be nerfed because they are broken to the point of extreme exploitation. 4/6chiv it not broken to that point. If it was, there would be FAR more of them running around.
     
  19. A well played 4/6er is impossible to kill with a mage. And by well played, I mean holding down the button until it works. It would be doable (still not fair, but doable) if they put in the same casting system as magery. Meaning you will overcast and be able to get interrupted. It would be best though if this was implemented and had a 4fcr cap.
     
  20. Guest

    Guest Guest

    And I've met PLENTY of Mages who have been able to down a well played 4/6 chiv. It's all about spelltiming and stacking damage, and not doing for piddly spells like fireball and magic arrow.
     
  21. No, it is literally impossible to kill a 4/6 chiv dexer who holds down the keys. You clearly don't know who nadir is to put down his skills by implying that there are mages who are leaps and bounds better than him, heh. Before the rubberband "fix"? It was slightly less impossible, but 4/6 chiv was amazing even vs 4/6 magery, and it's remained superpowerful vs mages ever since.
     
  22. <blockquote><hr>

    Tic
    Tic spread
    FC4
    Layer Dmg
    RC/cure/cw
    Overcast

    ARGH!!!

    *Grabs head and looks for excedrin*

    [/ QUOTE ]

    It's ok. The devs don't really understand it either
     
  23. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    No, it is literally impossible to kill a 4/6 chiv dexer who holds down the keys. You clearly don't know who nadir is to put down his skills by implying that there are mages who are leaps and bounds better than him, heh. Before the rubberband "fix"? It was slightly less impossible, but 4/6 chiv was amazing even vs 4/6 magery, and it's remained superpowerful vs mages ever since.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I don't have to know who he is. I've seen some mages put down VERY talented 4/6 chivs.
     
  24. <blockquote><hr>

    And I've met PLENTY of Mages who have been able to down a well played 4/6 chiv. It's all about spelltiming and stacking damage, and not doing for piddly spells like fireball and magic arrow.

    [/ QUOTE ]


    Not a top mage necro/mage in this game I havn't dropped on field or in duels. Most with ebolt or meteor swarm in duels at one point or another. Only time I kill 4/6 is when they play utterly stupid. If they want to RC every curse and CW the littlest dmg then no. Math dictates they cannot loose. I suppose I could pull it off by playing a 4/6 SW mage after dismounting them.

    ATL GL EU LS Legends Origion Pac some more I'm sure. I spent alot of time xsharding for duels for $. Some I've lost. But I've killed them all at least once. Happy to take broker for gold on real shard and we can fight it out on TC with me playing 4/6 chiv and they educating me on how to drop it with a mage / necro-mage

    34150360
     
  25. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    And I've met PLENTY of Mages who have been able to down a well played 4/6 chiv. It's all about spelltiming and stacking damage, and not doing for piddly spells like fireball and magic arrow.

    [/ QUOTE ]


    Not a top mage necro/mage in this game I havn't dropped on field or in duels. Most with ebolt or meteor swarm in duels at one point or another. Only time I kill 4/6 is when they play utterly stupid. If they want to RC every curse and CW the littlest dmg then no. Math dictates they cannot loose. I suppose I could pull it off by playing a 4/6 SW mage after dismounting them.

    ATL GL EU LS Legends Origion Pac some more I'm sure. I spent alot of time xsharding for duels for $. Some I've lost. But I've killed them all at least once. Happy to take broker for gold on real shard and we can fight it out on TC with me playing 4/6 chiv and they educating me on how to drop it with a mage / necro-mage

    34150360

    [/ QUOTE ]


    Wasn't aware this was going to turn into yet another ego thread concerning PvP.

    It's not impossible. It's very doable. I've seen many mages drop talented 4/6 chiv dexers. If you can't figure out what they are doing to drop them, that isn't call for a nerf. It's call for a change in strategy.

    End of discussion. Atleast on my part.
     
  26. Not trying to brag, just laying out the facts. Happy to do for free to learn this stragegy that seems to elude me.
     
  27. <blockquote><hr>

    Generally Meleers with 4/6 Casting lack HCI/DCI, because they have to focus they're jewelry on FC/FCR. However, there is some VERY nice jewelry out there that has HCI/DCI/FC/FCR.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    lol

    my chiv macers suit is

    4/6 casting
    43%HCI
    45%DCI
    39%LMC
    5MR

    70/70/68/70/70

    120hp 50mana 140stam

    corpse proof too

    I don't ever die...

    for that reason, I don't even pvp with this char... there's no challenge in it.

    4/6 casting should be reduced... its just not fair.


    btw... want to complain about an overpowered skill? Try necromancy.

    Corpse, Strangle, Omen are all almost indefensible unless you have chivalry.

    Apples were nerfed into pointlessness... and unless you have chiv on your template (even then against a necro mage... trying to cast remove curse with its super slow cast time... is rough.)

    remove the timer on apples... we need a way to counter this spell and its not like people carry 100000 apples on them.

    booooooooooooooooo
     
  28. Yenji Yasagari

    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

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    No god damnit. (Excuse me lord) I don't care who you are, no mage, necro or otherwise, can kill a 4/6 caster. If you can do it, I'd like to see it. Hell, come to test and fight one of the many 4/6 casters. 100 million says you cannot drop them on a mage without weaving.
     
  29. Masumatek

    Masumatek Guest

    ...Unless something has changed in my absence, necro is still in a nerfed states. Apples nerfed into uselessness? Nope. They should have never existed in the first place, and they still do, so quit complaining. To suggest that one item being able to remove 40 points of mana, many seconds of casting time, from something that required 200+ skill points to cast on you, all without any casting time, mana, or skillpoints spent on using the apple...to suggest that that something is "useless" is insane and just shows you do not know what you are talking about when it comes to necromancy and remove curse in PvP. Furthermore, remove curse talisman, another item with no costs, still exist and can be used to remove curse. And 4/6 chiv slaughters necros, with one spell that costs less mana, less casting time, and less skill points than the necro's spells....even if chiv casting time was nerfed it would still be good against necros...but you suggest that no, not only should chivalry remain at the ridiculous 4/6 casting, but that we need more/improved ways to remove necro curses, which are their primary weapon?????? Obviously you were one who relied on remove curse apples to spam remove necros from being able to compete and now can't handle them because you never learned how to actually fight a necro, despite that there are still plenty of ways to remove necro curses.

    Also, your post is contradictory. In the end you defend chivalry, but in the beginning you say you never die on your paladin, admitting that he is overpowered, and that his suit is "corpse proof" (which is yet another way necros are nerfed).
     
  30. Yenji Yasagari

    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

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    Heh, catch a necro in a weaken cycle and see how good his precast strangle does. Of course if he is a really good necro mage, its an entirely different story all together.
     
  31. <blockquote><hr>

    Also, your post is contradictory. In the end you defend chivalry, but in the beginning you say you never die on your paladin, admitting that he is overpowered, and that his suit is "corpse proof" (which is yet another way necros are nerfed).

    [/ QUOTE ]

    In the end I defend chivalry? In what fairy tale land of make-believe did you pull this from?

    So... how exactly is what I said contradictory?

    And yes, necro is out of balance too... I cited my reasons.

    I'm sorry but I don't care if you have to spend 500 skill points dedicated to performing a move... it should still be able to be countered and not by only 1 spell available in only 1 skill in the entire list of skills in this game.
     
  32. <blockquote><hr>

    Heh, catch a necro in a weaken cycle and see how good his precast strangle does. Of course if he is a really good necro mage, its an entirely different story all together.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Masamutek plays Siege (I play Siege and Atlantic)

    but, on siege... necro's aren't so overpowered because you can't get around the disadvantages of running the necro mage template on Siege... like you can on prodoshards with insurance and uber items.

    It's more balanced.

    On prodo... with 1 handers and maxed suits with -25 mage weps with crystaline and alchy tali... you can run a necro mage with no restrictions.

    On siege... you can only really run swords of prosperity or staff of magi/pyros and the 2 hander makes it difficult for you to chug not to mention the jewlry set required for running that is more expensive than average.

    So to make a long story short... necros are more balanced on Siege than on other shards... but the apple restrictions bs needs to go.

    Any move needs to be able to countered in this game by any template. PvP in UO is not meant to be rock paper scissors... where unless I'm running the template opposite of yours I'll win.. it's always been revered as skill based... where the smarter, better and more prepared pvper... should come out on top.
     
  33. riley0888

    riley0888 Guest

    i have killed 4/6 chiv warriors with both my pure mage and necro mage... necro mage will be easier to kill though due to the strangle and disrupt afterwards

    the thing is to time your spells (small ones) to disrupt their remove curse and close wound.

    most 4/6 chiv i kill usually carries a shield... so they got one downside is they dont carry potions

    moreover some of them even using vamp form

    another down side for them is their damage and attack are not as powerful as the standard warrior or moving shots archers

    This just a matter of time and tries.

    However, nowadays is getting very hard or impossible to kill 4/6 chiv warrior due to the following reason:-

    1. the rubberband doesnt work that make it a bit harder for mages
    2. the 4/6 chiv warrior will start running off screen and doing confidence as soon as they know they are unable to cast any close wounds or remove curse with your good timed disrupt.

    No.2 is the current problem i am facing also now and have been finding ways to solve this problem... for pure mage, good timed stun punch could be a good option to kill 4/6 chiv warrior who starts running when losing 30% hps. However, it is still very hard and usually fail

    For necro mage, one could cast those revenant on them first and strangle is also a must with all the nerfs... the point is to keep them from using any remove curse, then the battle will be much much easier.


    Another trick is to act like you are lagging and let him hit you for about 30-40% damage, then slowly cast those damaging spells to hurt him little by little, then when he still focus on the offensive moves, its time to change to big spells with stun punch combos to finish him off..

    It is possible but very hard to kill 4/6 chiv warrior with pure mages nowadays.

    The chance is almost 0% if the chiv warrior knows what hes doing..

    When i using my chiv warrior 4/6 casting with spellweaving (gift of renewal, attunement, confidence, evasion, close wound, vamp form, potions, conflag pot, holy light disrupts).. even 2-3 mages on the same screen, i can still stand toe to toe without getting much scratches

    Nowadays pvp is more like teamwork than easy to solo since when get dismounted by a group of ppl, very hard not to die unless u got invisble and teleport items, or smoke bombs... etc.

    Usually when ppl get dismounted, they run to another direction from the enemies... however in some situation this proved to be wrong and should be changed... if get dismounted and your pet is following you, you must stay near your pet and disrupt at least 1 enemy with your attacks or dismount one of them back to wait for the 5 seconds before u can get back to your pet...

    also when dismounted, you must be timing all those remove curse method and heal method such as confidence, bandage heals, in manis, close wounds or whatever...to last for the 5 seconds which u could get back on pet.. or else you will be only seeing grey screen faster if you are just running...

    Especially in area where you are FAR away from the other screen, you should not run to the other direction unless there is support near...

    Anyways, i speak too much... gonna stop here.
     
  34. riley0888

    riley0888 Guest

    i must disagree with you...

    necro is not overpowered... you can still fight a necro with pure mage..

    it just depends on how well you disrupt his spells like strangle, corpse skin and curse, ex fs evil omen combos

    the problem with ppl especially pure mage who cant win a necro mage is because they run too much and they are not well prepared and calm..

    the key is to be calm when playing a mage or necro caster..

    use more small spells to disrupt and damage the necro, and keep your stamina to full even if get strangled...

    i never died to a necro mage with my pure mage at all in my life.

    I play in formosa if you want to try i can show you. I am quite bored because whenever i use necro mage, those necro mages will be running instead of stand still like a man to fight.

    playing mage and necro, two most important thing must have:-

    1. connection
    2. timing and practice.
     
  35. Guest

    Guest Guest

    My Chiv Macer has 3 FC/0 FCR (With No FC on Wep)
    34% HCI (With no HCI on Wep)
    43% DCI (With no DCI on Wep)
    25% Dam Inc (Without Wep, use Stormgrip Gloves)
    40% LMC
    5 MR (GM Focus helps this)

    105 STR/102 Health (No Crimson Cincture, 135 STR/118 Health after chugging Greater Strength with Ecru Citrine Ring, 140 STR/120 Health if eat Petal of Trinsic too)
    120 DEX/124 Stamina (With Jackal's Collar, 150 DEX/154 Stam after chugging Greater Agility with Ecru Citrine Ring equipped)
    66 INT/91 Mana (Human, would be 111 Mana if Elf, but would lose the -10 Special Cost, so not worth it to me)

    All Resists are at least in the 60s. He has 110.0 Resist skill.
    With this setup, i can kill a person with chaining AIs or Conc Blows alone. Love it when a Necro/Mage Blood Oaths me and then gets careless and sits next to me for too long. With my 110.0 Resist, i'm only taking 35% damage back, and i Conc Blow when Blood Oathed, which isn't reflected. REALLY love it when the Necro/Mage has no Wrest and uses a Mage Wep or SC Wep, i can Disarm them and slaughter them with Conc Blows, all with my Mace.
    Only real problem with my Macer's setup is no FCR, need to get Inquisitor's Resolution for him, but they're damned expensive and impossible to Steal in Doom because of all the Script Thieves.
     
  36. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Evil Omen...the most overpowered spell in the game. Completely negates 120.0 points in a skill (Resist), makes next direct damage spell deal +25% Damage, boosts Poison Level by +1, casts as fast as a mini-heal, making it nearly impossible to interrupt, takes barely any Skill/Mana.
     
  37. Guest

    Guest Guest

    If you've seen a bit of Matsumatek's posts, you would realize he expects to be able to walk up to an entire guild of people wanting to kill him, say in Beowulf fashion "I AM NECRO!" and have them all bow down before him and beg for his forgiveness.

    That's what i've been able to gather from any of his posts that are Necro related. He opposes ANYTHING that can possibly counter Necro in any fashion, whether it be an item, a skill or a spell, and he wants Necro further empowered. Siege may have balanced Necro, but no way in hell is it balanced on prodo shards.
     
  38. Masumatek

    Masumatek Guest

    I'll respond to this thread tomorrow since I'm about to sleep but no, you're wrong. I want balance. And I see necro as, overall, in a nerfed, imbalanced state. I do NOT want to be able to just slaughter everyone as you seem to think I do. In fact I'm not even a necro right now. I've always tried to argue, unlike the majority, for what I feel, after thinking it through, would be a more balanced, better game, not simple argue to boost whatever skill/item/etc. that I'm using. And if you actually read the majority of my posts from months ago that you're referring too, the reasons I gave for how I feel about necro are very logical and well thought out.

    Anyhow, we shall start the war back up tomorrow:0.
     
  39. if you have never died to a necro mage on your pure mage in your life, that must mean that you are the best mage to play UO, considering that if you take a top pvper on a scribe mage and put him on a necro, he would be able to slaughter himself. Those who choose to play scribe mages generally do it for the pvp (actual user interaction), not because the template is better or equal to other ones.