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Fel Should Be A No Guard Area

Discussion in 'UHall' started by outcry, Aug 8, 2011.

  1. outcry

    outcry Lore Master
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    Who besides myself thinks that all of Fel should be a no guard zone area?


    Reasons why..

    1) Faction people then can heal each other in any town if red
    2) Blues have , 4 other facets to go to be safe
    3) Would cut down the number of blues who come to help factions and attempt to guard whack us when fighting



    Just a few of my reasons I do have more but them are the main points
     
  2. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    it'd place too much of a hardship on it's inhabitants and could make it too hard to play. who wants to get ganked at the bank, losing everything, no thanks
     
  3. Mervyn

    Mervyn Certifiable
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    If you're fighting in guard zones, don't. There's no reason to, no champ is in a guard zone, no harrower spawns in a guard zone, there's no reason to defend faction bases anymore.
     
  4. outcry

    outcry Lore Master
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    we been fighting in our bases for a bit now on catskills

    Also to guy above insure your items and know the risks of being blue in fel, thats the risk you take of double ore... there plenty of safe banks in the other 4 facets for you to be safe on...............


    Still feel that Fel should not have any guard zone , all you blues cried and got Trammel , well time for us Reds, and Faction people to start our own war cry and get what we want for a change.......
     
  5. Mervyn

    Mervyn Certifiable
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    i'd rather have more reasons for people to come out of guardzones than less guardzones, cos the people who were in the guardzones, will just move to where the guardzones are.
     
  6. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    Eh... would have to keep the moongate areas guard zone.

    I can see a bunch of red mystics just holding hail storm up until they hear the audio of someone coming through the moongate and then just dropping them.
     
  7. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Sounds like a great idea to cut down on the population of fel even more. If that's your goal at least. I'd prefer to find a way to get more people to fel, not less.
     
  8. MedeaDF

    MedeaDF Seasoned Veteran
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    Ah, yes. Risk vs Fun. Or was it Risk vs Reward? ;)

    Anyhow...

    But one exception: Guard Rules for Fel where EM held their events. Otherwise its simply not possible to have planned EM events in Felucca (at least on our shard).
     
  9. Martell

    Martell Seasoned Veteran
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    GZ around gates is fine but it would be sooooooooo much more fun if fighting could take place in towns (ie. fields can be thrown and reds can be healed). Also factions should extend to tram to................ but this will never happen.
     
  10. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    Have you really thought this all of the way through?
     
  11. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    They could do that now. Who'd have time to hit their guards macro?

    I agree with turning guard zones off in Fel, at gates and in faction cities at least. Leave like... Occlo... for people who want to live in Fel and have a safe bank.
    If you go through the gate to Fel you should be consenting at that time to PvP.
     
  12. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    At gates? Right, I can see it now, groups of reds camping certain gates waiting for that curious Tramy who wants to see what Fel is like. Nothing like seeing Fel for the first time in the form of a gank.

    No, keep guards at gates. Don't want to fight at gates then don't. Take it elsewhere.
     
  13. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    So remove the gates from Fel on production shards. There's really no reason for them anyway.
    Wow that would make for some cool sigil warfare.
     
  14. outcry

    outcry Lore Master
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    I do agree with you about the events
     
  15. outcry

    outcry Lore Master
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    Yes I have , as Flutter knows I am very passionate about this......... I play both blues and reds and I know the risk if I head into fel on my blue and I die then was my own fault because I choose to go to Fel.....


    You see we have a guild on our shard who only play blues in yew, and our guard zone is whacked we can be by our house a screen away and still get guard whacked by the blues..
     
  16. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    There actually is, getting to and from Fel for those who don't use runes.

    I do agree though, would be some very interesting sigil warfare.
     
  17. yanaki2

    yanaki2 Sage
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    i have a much better idea

    turn fel back into the lush arias that it was before trammel. give people a toggle to turn on/off pvp(blue is non pvp, grey is pvp) . keep the current murder count system in place. reds cant toggle out of pvp till they work of there murder counts.make certain arias automatically toggle you to pvp, like dungeons and champion spawns.limit toggling on and off to a 12 hour cycle. i.e if you togle for pvp you cant toggle out of pvp for 12 hours after you toggeled it on or did a aggressive act(so no abuse of the gank someone then turn blue to avoid the revenge).

    that way pvp can still be around while not forcing the people whom DO NOT WANT TO PVPto be left alone to do there thing. you want to adventure in fel sure you can still be attacked..you want to do things in your house without a group of jerkwads camping your place your safe too. then turn off all guard lcations for people who are toggled for pvp. so they can fight anywhere be it in a town, be it at a moongate or a champion spawn or in some shmucks house.

    also remove item insurance when toggled for pvp.so nothing can be insured. also remove the blessed effect from blessed items while toggled as well.

    so there you have it.

    pvpers can pvp
    non pvpers dont get unwanted molesting
    a WIN-WIN for all of us.

    the only people whom i see that would have a big problem with this is :
    1. the greifer pvper
    2. the greifer pvper
    3. the greifer pvper
    4. the greifer pvper
    5. the greifer pvper
    6. the greifer pvper
    7. the greifer pvper
    8. the greifer pvper
    9. the greifer pvper
    10. the greifer pvper
    11. the greifer pvper
    12. the greifer pvper
    13. the greifer pvper
    14. the greifer pvper
     
  18. rottenbeggar

    rottenbeggar Guest

    do you think they could introduce some sort of bounty hunter system in fel to hunt down reds for cash that would keep the pvpers happy and scared at the same time or would that be an abused system i dont know just a suggestion
     
  19. Martell

    Martell Seasoned Veteran
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    Fel is made for pvp. If you come to fel you should be pvp. If you join factions you should be made to fight other factions in fel or tram. It's pretty simple.

    The system is currently made to cater to bank sitters and pvmers who want to wear faction gear to pvm and easily farm resources in fel, it's stupid. The least that devs could do was allow fields to be dropped in towns so that actual faction fighting could take place or allow red guildies or red chars of the same faction to be crosshealed in gz.

    There are lots of simple changes that could be made to improve pvp and encourage more pvp but since trammies are now the large majority of the game the devs don't want to upset them.

    ps. There are are no "griefer pvpers"
     
  20. rottenbeggar

    rottenbeggar Guest

    do you think they could introduce some sort of bounty hunter system in fel to hunt down reds for cash that would keep the pvpers happy and scared at the same time or would that be an abused system i dont know just a suggestion
     
  21. yanaki2

    yanaki2 Sage
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    fel was intended for pvp? well yes and definately no.

    first off when this game came into being there was no such thing as fel and trammel.

    yes pvp was intended but no where near the way it runs now. the intent was a sort of wild west atmosphere were you had the good guys (blue) and the bad guys (red) where the game encouraged its own communities and these communities would set there own defences and fight off the murderers. there was a bounty system in place. kill people they could donate gold to set a bounty on the killer, the more money the bounty the more people were willing to hunt the charicter.in theory it was a great idea.

    but heres the problem.

    the communities never fully developed, more people were becoming red and too few blues were willing to hunt them.
    you started to get the uo version of snake oil salesmen in the form of scammers.
    reds started to kill everythin that moved,stalking players, camping at there houses and doing all sorts of nasty stuff that made a large number of my kind(BETA players) quit.you think trammel nearly killed uo, you are in lala land there buddy. reds nearly did. dig up some old posts made on stratics back then and you would learn they were dealing with thousands of complaints from players back then about unconsentual pvp.my mom was a councilor, 2 of my freinds were seers and if you heard half what i heard youd cringe. some people think its no big deal because its a game, others its the most important thing in there lives..to each there own.trammel was created to give the masses(and i mean 95% of the shards population) a safe haven from pvp. anyone remember the first week of trammel? didnt you notice felucia become a ghost town faster then you can blink?

    if you think people want unconsentual pvp go check all and powerfull wow and notice less then 5% are on pvp servers.and less then 10% of the charicters on those servers are actually playing regularly? go check it out for yourself...

    dont get me wrong im ok with pvp..to each there own, i do however dont like being forced into things i dont want to do. and before i get the standard greifer pvper rants about being a trammel noob, i have 7 accounts as old as the game is(i.e as old as the oldest server running)and have by far more of my houses grandfathered then newer ones.

    ohh and i pvpd as well

    catskills name was death over 1950 kills perma red with a final bounty total of over 4 million gold when they removed it(with todays inflation it would be about 400 million in todays gold)
    one of my best buds was raistlin on catskills when they removed bounties he had over 4500 kills and a 8 million gold bounty on his head.

    so i aint a newb.
     
  22. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    Alright. I do understand the difference between PKer and PvPer. Likely better than many imagine...

    I am just not convinced that making "Fel" a total kill zone is a good idea. trust me I know how guard zones can be twinked. I also know faction battles can be influenced by non faction folk.

    Granted, the system I play in is Siege. I is different from what most of you play. We kinda like it that way.

    I do realize you likely did not consider the Siege ruleset when you made this post. That is OK. Siege is not your game. It is mine and that of some few others.

    Many suggest that you consent to PvP when you go to Felucca. What if you never left that 'rule set'?
     
  23. yanaki2

    yanaki2 Sage
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    hey rottenbeggar, they actually did, but they were forced to remove it from the game because of some activists in the uk complaining.

    way back when not only could you get bounties on the reds but when you killed a player you could cut them up and take there body parts and if you were feeling a little donner party esc. you could make there body parts into jerky and eat it....yeah that didnt last long though....
     
  24. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    They have also done away with some guard zones in a past event... How did that go over?
     
  25. PitrGri

    PitrGri Guest

    Get out of my lawn... (new magincia felucca)
     
  26. icm420

    icm420 Seasoned Veteran
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    I agree with who ever said don't fight in guard zone areas. Yew gate is where I end up only because I am feeling too lazy to check spawns, and/or despise hasn't been done all day long.

    There are a couple guard zones I think need to be removed, the first is the one outside of the marble cave in t2a... i mean seriously if you made it that far you know what you're in for.. there is a guard zone at the entrance, the cave isn't guards but as soon as you go out again it is..remove this one it's not needed.

    The other is similar to the marble one, but at lighthouse. You are in guards outside in the yew area, that's ok, but then you go in threw the cave, no guards, but outside near the wyvern it's guards again. These are not really needed I mean like I said if you made it that far you know what your in for.

    But really guard zones only effect you if you let them. For example I was fighting with some people over at fire dungeon, they kept chasing these guys outside onto the docks, why I am not sure, next thing you know they are all dead from guard wacks/ganks and I'm inside wondering why I am playing with dumb people. Blues use the same rule reds should use, make them fight where I want to fight. They fight in guards because it gives them an advantage and they continue to do so because they know you will pursue them into that spot. I do not fight in guard zone, if you wanted to 1 v 1 me we can go to my house and do it up nice and safe with 100% assurance of no outside influences. Instead you can sit in guard zone all night while I go fight the people who want to fight or finish your spawn. So with the exception of stupidly placed guard zones here and there I think they are all fine, it's up to the player to dictate how the fight happens or doesn't happen. If you have no one to fight on your server you should look into buying an Xfer token so you can move a guy to a server that has a higher population so that when you get all the blues sitting in guards not fighting you can fight elsewhere. If you plan the move you can have a character ready to pvp on any server at any time.

    Just my two cents
     
  27. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    I'd go for the toggle to turn on/off pvp. and the 'sound' at the moongate can be turned off - silent.
    Maybe a guard zone around an EM, like a mother's skirt?
     
  28. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    I have no opinion on the issue of all guards being removed from Fel.

    But I have to address this argument.

    I have never seen this actually happen. It's been one of those things people talk about as thought it happens, but I at least have never personally seen it. And since I, who have a not good connection, get accused of speed-hacking? I have to put this in the same category.

    When I am not in Factions, I am one of those blues who shows up to the Faction Base fights and attacks reds that either are in a Faction I do not like or that I do not like personally.

    I don't guard whack anyone. I pretty much flag on whomever I want to fight. If I didn't want to fight, or at least wasn't prepared for the possibility, I wouldn't be there at all, or I'd leave quickly. And I've never personally seen anyone deliberately guard whacked in this manner. (One time some moron red attacked me when I was a fresh rez and the healer whacked him, but that was an idiot move and he deserved what he got.)

    Not to mention that, unless I'm totally forgetting about something, this can only happen in 1 of the 4 Faction bases.

    I feel strongly about this because I have always felt that if you couldn't put up with being attack-able by anyone, you should not go red at all, rather than going red and then whining about the consequences.

    Frankly, though, the guard zone never actually helped me as a Faction Red-attacking blue. (People use the term "hero blue.") I in effect can't Holy Light and I can't cast Nature's Furies.

    -Galen's player
     
  29. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    If this is the same thing I'm thinking of, it went over neither positively nor negatively. It was just a change in conditions.

    And it was only Faction Cities.

    -Galen's player
     
  30. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    Point 1 (which will almost solve all point a small bit, but not in totality.)

    Simply make it so that same faction affiliation allows you to heal same faction affiliation with out worry of being guard whacked. It should not be overly difficult to code in a small snippet that would allow you to turn grey and not be guard whacked if you are healing your "partners".

    Now I solved the guard whacking issue, and the issue of not being able to heal reds, all with out removing guards. And with this system the blues could attack you while you are grey (either on accident or on purpose) and you would be allowed to defend yourself, and reds would not just get toppled by blue's because they can be healed by their fellow players.

    I COULD live with out guard zones, but personally I feel we should be working towards like goals, and over all better abilities with in the game, and removing the guards only allows people to grief, my system mostly addresses your issues. (there are a few other blue player griefing issues, but I have not come up with an answer for them yet, and besides you didn't list them.)
     
  31. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    The guard whacking he is reffering to is by either npcs or other players from "performing a criminal act" a.k.a. healing a red. (I make this assumption because he complained about not being able to heal red mates.) I have seen reds get guard whacked all the time, in fact the blues that are not in factions but tend to side with our faction on a specific shard (we only really have 2 factions so they side with us by defualt of not liking the people in the other) have often times guard whacked the other players, because those players flag on them when they join the fight and they personally feel that the fight is no longer fair because they only flagged 1 person but now have 2+ attacking them (which is more or less how it happens everywhere and when considering group play people should help other people. Just my opinion though.)

    I have never had it happen to me that I can think of, but I have seen it happen on two or three shards, although how often is a different topic altogether.
     
  32. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    Keeping in mind that this idea is for production shards. Not Siege or Mugen.(sp)

    To the person suggesting that people (again on production shards lol) are choosing moongates over runes, I'd concede if we could find three people worldwide that play only in Fel that do that.
     
  33. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    If you are in factions you are considered "orange" not blue. (Regardless of your characters murder count) In this instance.
    We are talking about a problem with non-faction blues.
     
  34. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    This is fairly accurate.
     
  35. 5% Luck

    5% Luck Guest

    Now I do understand the base of this argument.. But, I do use vendors in fel towns often. Especially faction vendors when those running them arnt beeing "prickly" but setting the taxes high. Often enough they reduce the prices below that of trammel vendors and for that I shop there. That for me at least means guard zone towns.

    As far as gate fighting.. I know the main reasons the gate is used is for access by anyone,the housing in the area plus a reasonable proximity to the bank. Maybe swapping out bucs den rules with yew gate might do everything that is needed although I am sure there would be less players actively fighting there as a result.

    Some players just wont PvP unless they have -That Kind of Advantage-

    If it was truly a case of guard zones being lame we would simply see more actives at bucs den instead of yew gate.
     
  36. BluDjinn

    BluDjinn Journeyman

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    No thanks I like it just the way it is.

    Uh..... you really should have made this a poll.
    just to show how many people disagree with you.
     
  37. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    Does it have to be a disagreement? Can we not just work together to try and solve the problems presented instead? I am sure his reasoning behind asking to remove the guards comes from a problem he encounters, so we should be able to think of some ideas to fix those problems with out having to argue about it to much. (Although I do not know them and therefor they could just be someone who wants to grief the few legit blue players we have in fel, but I will continue to give the benefit of the doubt.)
     
  38. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    If it were only like that. You see, Siege is already PvP enabled. Some towns and moongates are all we have for guard zones. Those are the places crafters work.

    And yes. Crafters are important. We get one character per account. Try playing with out a crafter. Some of you may have multiple accounts.

    Most of you have the option of Trammel. We do not.
     
  39. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    Kelmo darling, that's why I said it was only a suggestion for prod shards.
     
  40. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    Most of the Dev's have no clue.
     
  41. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    This my friend is the truth.
    This idea is not for, nor would affect anyone on Siege. Nor would it adversely change anyone's gameplay that plays solely in Trammel, plays in faction, or plays a red.
     
  42. Martell

    Martell Seasoned Veteran
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    1)No need for a history of the game.
    2)Yeah Tram and Fel were separated and fel was intended for Player vs. Player interaction. Not necessarily red vs. blue, red vs. red, or blue vs. blue, simply players fighting each other. Yeah there used to be bountys but that was just to encourage people to fight.
    3)Now the way pvp is set up now, especially with factions, red and blue mean very little. It's plain and simple now: Fel is intended for players to fight each other therefore guards zones in towns and certain areas is pretty lame, moongates are somewhat acceptable as some may want to spectate and grief as stupid as that may be, but pvp would be waaay more fun if x-healing and fielding could actually take place in towns. Further the whole point of factions is to fight other factions, if you're not fighting or willing to fight and die you shouldn't be in factions end of debate.

    The GZ in fel should be reduced so that fel can be what it was intended to be. And Factions should be what it was intended to be. This games mechanics are ruled by trammies, it's pretty unarguable. The SA expansion is the first expansion to even try and add to the pvp playing field and we can all tell how much effort went into that.
     
  43. Capt.E

    Capt.E Guest

    Don't fight in towns against blues? How hard is that?

    I agree that Britain needs some major fixing as far as faction bases go. The no red area spells and guard whacks there are total BS.

    If your talking about Serp's docks or some other place, take the fight elsewhere. It's pretty easy, run a few screens away and make them follow you. If they aren't gonna follow, find someone else to fight.

    P.S. guard zones are good because most blues are pvm orientated player or characters. If fel was only pvp then there would be no reason for a blue to go there really. The champ spawns keep a fresh supply of PVM type characters coming to fel, and guard zones help beacuse my fencer-archer can dismantle a sampire in seconds flat.
     
  44. EvilIan

    EvilIan Adventurer
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    Not that I think that any dev will actually read this thread or implement any changes, but I have to agree that Castle Britain needs an update.

    1. All of the other faction bases have the benefit of long choke points 5 or fewer tiles wide. The new CoM base's choke is shorter, and is lacking in objects that block site, but that is a subject for another day.
    2. All other faction bases are far away from a guard zone. Minax and Shadow Lords are literally in the middle of nowhere and CoM is quite a few screens from the guard zone at the farm houses. This is particularly troublesome for reds who cannot defend or heal their faction mates right outside their own base.
    3. None of the other faction bases have ridiculous NPC guards that will hit you for 100+ damage. Whenever a red tries to place a field they get smacked down by the guards. At some level this could be considered a "benefit" to the defenders, but either way, how hard is it to turn off the guard spawn?

    In summary, stop the blue guard spawns and other random blue NPCs in the castle and make a larger guard-zone-free buffer around the faction base. Perhaps only the banks in Britain should have guard zones. Consider adding walls that block line of site in the CoM base.
     
  45. Violence

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    100% Agreed. It's ridiculous. Entering Fel IS a "Switch" for PVP. Why do we need Guards?
     
  46. Mervyn

    Mervyn Certifiable
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    Don't deny my existence
     
  47. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    I usually see Faction reds complain about being attacked; I've seen multiple Faction reds on these boards specifically argue that they shouldn't be attackable by non-Factioners.

    Usually those complaints are tied in to guard zone arguments. So I never make the assumption that what's being talked about is only healing.

    And really, when you consider that 3/4 Faction Bases (and again, if I'm overlooking something please correct me) are not in guard zones? The arguments only belong together unless one objects to being attacked at all.

    And yes, again I will say that I will freely admit to targeting one Faction over another when I'm not in Factions. (Though, granted, if someone pisses me off from the Faction I like, I'll attack him too. In fact once I was at open war with a whole guild from a Faction I would normally favor....But that's a whole story in and of itself.)

    -Galen's player
     
  48. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    I am in Factions and am quite aware of the difference between an orange and a blue.

    I also spoke in my post about being a non-orange who attacked red Factioners. I admitted it openly and, personally, don't see how attacking reds in Fel can possibly be considered a problem and it bewilders me that it is considered such, ever.

    Actually, you could save me this post if you'd have read the one you replied to, as you clearly didn't.

    -Galen's player
     
  49. Merion

    Merion Lore Master
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    Keep the guard zones! Fel NPCs need protection too.
     
  50. Martell

    Martell Seasoned Veteran
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    The point is:
    1) More people would want to PVP if you COULD fight, x-heal, and lay fields in towns. Serp Docks is prime example of why fighting in towns would be more fun. Currently Serp Docs results in reds sitting in a grinder inside fire and blues sitting out on docks and then ends up in ganking the reds who pop out to try and kill those flagged to them or the reds ganking the one person flagged to them. Either way it ends up in a lame gankfest.
    Also, with town fighting possible, fighting wouldn't just be limited to yew gate, which I think most consistent pvpers would consider boring as hell by this point.
    2) GZ are somewhat bad because with them blues never learn how to pvp and hence don't partake in spawns. It doesn't take a genius to realize in about 10min that a sampire doesn't work for pvp (and neither do fencer-archers anymore).
    3)Champ spawn artis are now worth more than scrolls blues seem real content just chaining ilsh spawns.
    4)Lastly what has this game come to that blues wouldn't want to come to fel without guardzones!? Are you really that concerned about losing 9k? PVP is by far the best, skill oriented, unique aspect UO has going for it and sadly it's pretty dead. You wanna solely do quests and earn pixel prizes go play wow, they have far more quests and other redundant bs.