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Fishing changes : Can we PLEASE have ML ingredients in fishing chests this time ?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by popps, Aug 29, 2010.

  1. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Dear Devs, thanks for the nice changes to fishing.

    One plea.

    Can we PLEASE have, this time, ML ingredients added to fishing chests like you added SA ingredients to treasure chests on the land ?

    Thank you very much.
     
  2. Fink

    Fink Guest

    Elves don't like open water, so it would make little sense.
     
  3. popps

    popps Always Present
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    But it wasn't the elves who put the ML ingredients in the chests to start with !!

    It was human or gargoyle hunters who hunted Peerless bosses (or got them from elves...), stocked up ML ingredients along with other goodies on their ships to carry them to their homes.

    Unfortunately, the ships were sunk by monsters or bad wheather while sailing BUT, the chest owners were able to draw a Map of the sinking whereabouts so as to try recover the sunk chest later on.

    Unfortunately, they either were killed or the Map was stolen or it got simply lost to be then found by someone else (the player), who goes, fishes up the chest and finds the goodies WITH the ML ingredients inside of it............

    Does it make sense now to you ?
     
  4. NewThunder

    NewThunder Guest

    NO, they are already easily available in game, there is no reason to add another outlet for them.
     
  5. Fink

    Fink Guest

    Quite frankly, it sounds like you're making that up.
     
  6. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    Why does everything in UO have to be about fighting?
     
  7. popps

    popps Always Present
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    They are way LESS easy to obtain than imbuing ingredients which were given several alternate spawn sources AND, on several shards it has become very very hard to put together parties to hunt peerless therefore, many crafters have no access to them other than having to pay exorbitant gold amounts which often surpass the value of the final crafted items.

    There is a whole lot of need for ML ingredients to have alternate spawn sources.
     
  8. NewThunder

    NewThunder Guest

    What shards? Name them. Show your proof!
     
  9. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Imbuing ingredients can create items which are way, but WAY more powerfull and usefull than ML craftables and yet, they are way, but way more readily obtainable and from various sources than ML ingredients.

    I am sorry, but ML ingredients do need, and by far way more than imbuing ingredients, alternate sources of spawn. The fishing changes can be a good occasion to create such alternate spawn sources.
     
  10. Apetul

    Apetul Rares Fest Host | LS April 2011
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    This ^^
     
  11. manufacturedsoul

    manufacturedsoul Adventurer
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    Supreeme already mentioned at the townhall this WOULDN'T be happening so that's a big NO straight from the mouth of a Dev. Quit looking for hand outs pops you won't be getting any!
     
  12. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Uhu ??

    So creating a variety of imbuing ingredients alternative spawns (included in treasure chests) is not handouts but for ML ingredients which are FAR LESS powerfull and usefull it would ?

    Hallo ????????????????????????????????????????????

    Ain't this double standards ??

    One logic for imbuing ingredients but an entire other for ML ingredients ?

    And, ML ingredients are not even a fraction of the usefulness and power of imbuing ingredients and what they can create !!!

    Go figure........

    By the way, did Supreeme explain why imbuing ingredients were given a variety of spawn sources but ML ingredients are not ?
    It would be interesting to know, at least for me, the design logic for this different choice, if that is the case.....
     
  13. Shamus Turlough

    Shamus Turlough Lore Master
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    His explanation was "People are still really excitied about doing peerlesses. We do not want to take away from that excitement by giving out the one thing people do them for"
     
  14. NewThunder

    NewThunder Guest

    Popps,

    Did it ever occur to you that the Dev team can see how many of each resource exist? They must feel that the current rate is a good balance. Since you have not provided any verified proof they are scare, your argument is very weak.
     
  15. popps

    popps Always Present
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    "by giving out the one thing people do them for" ??

    ML ingredients the one thing ?

    IMHO, very, but VERY hardly......

    So now I got to hear that noone uses or needs or wants any of these ?

    * Crimson Cincture
    * Dread Horn's Flute
    * Dread's Revenge
    * Melisande's Corroded Hatchet
    * An albino squirrel imprisoned in a crystal
    * Grizzled Mare Statuette
    * Monstrous Interred Grizzle Armor Set
    * Paroxysmus Swamp Dragon Statuette
    * Scepter of the Chief
    * Crystalline Ring
    * Mark of the Travesty

    That all that Peerless is about is ML ingredients ?

    Yeah right.............

    How much does Crimson Cinctures STILL sell nowadays ? Or perhaps Mark of the Travesty ? And what about Crystalline Rings or the Grizzled Mare Statuette and so forth ?

    There is way, but WAY more than ML ingredients in hunting Peerless bosses and if ML ingredients were given an alternate source this would not make a dent into the desire to hunt for Peerless bosses, IMHO.

    Besides if the Developers' concern was about not reducing interest in hunting given MoBs (which for Peerless and ML ingredients, I think, would not even be the case given the other items still desirable which they still drop...), why do they create new items which make older ones obsolete and thus, not interesting to be hunted for ?

    I mean, if that was the case, then we would not have imbuing at all because imbuing is a hell of a good reason for quite many artifacts not to be any longer interesting.

    So, I am sorry, but I do not think that the reason for not adding extra spawn sources for ML ingredients might be Peerless bosses hunting.

    It just makes no sense to me from whichever angle I look at it from.....
     
  16. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    Most of those items are rare drops. The ingredients are guaranteed to drop every time. Taking those away would make doing peerless a lot less worthwhile, just as Faction artifacts took away from Doom.
     
  17. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Why would it be any different for imbuing ingredients which were added also to treasure chests then ?

    I mean, and merely to make an example, if someone needs more Abyssal Cloth, having it spawn in treasure chests exactly how much does it treats its "rarity" when one can easily make it with a Sewing Kit, 1 Crystalline Blackrock and 10 Bolts of Cloth.....

    Need Crystalline Blackrock ?

    Not only it comes from mining anywhere in Ter Mur; or as loot on an ore elemental on any facet (including Shadow Iron Elementals of the Yomotsu Mines), but it also comes as loot on the ratmen living in the Cavern of the Discarded.

    Not to mention, that it was also dropping from Ophidians with last Event...

    Scarcity considered before adding extra spawn sources ?

    Please, try another............
     
  18. popps

    popps Always Present
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    I dissent.

    When Crimson Cincture still sells easy 16-18 millions and a Mark of the Travesty like 30-40 millions it is a hell of a good reason for farming those Bosses over and over and over regardless from ML ingredients.

    And infact, most ML ingredients sit on vendors at exorbitant prices (they cost more than whatever stuff can be made from them, in many cases...) meaning, that most players hunting for Peerless just see them as annoying items with not much use.

    It just screws up crafters, as I see it.
     
  19. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    I have done Peerless what must be 200 times. I have never gotten a Crimson Cincture or any other of the rare artifacts. If you do them solo, yeah you will get them. But I always went in groups of 4-10 people and never saw one.

    To the casual person, ML Ingredients are why you do Peerless. If you make those easily available by treasure or MIB chest then people will stop doing Peerless.
     
  20. popps

    popps Always Present
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    So now that we can see (just a mere example for the sake of the discussion) Abyssal Cloth in Treasure Chests does that perhaps mean that now people no longer mines or hunts in the cavern of the discarded for Crystalline Blackrock ?

    They still do. They do BOTH.

    Meaning, that should ML ingredients gain an alternate source of spawn players would still hunt Peerless, if they had the chance, because that would mean that chance at getting a juicy nice item like a Crimson Cincture or any of the others.

    What an alternate source of spawn for ML ingredients would gain, would be a new life for ML craftables which would again become a viable craftable, perhaps for starting or returning players since they are not as good as what might be imbued or other types of artifacts.

    What I am trying to say, is that adding alternate sources of spawn to ML ingredients could make, especially now that we have recipes spawning in treasure chests, ML craftables a viable possibility for new or returning players.

    As of now, they are simply not worth the hassle and infact, they are hardly crafted nor used. ML craftables as it stands today, is a wasted resource of the game, IMHO.
     
  21. RedDaTeef

    RedDaTeef Guest

    I have to agree with Popps on this one. I don't really see the difference with this compared to other loot changes they have made. This makes sence to me to give an alternate source of these ML ingredients.
    I've noticed people like to argue (troll) with Popps on these boards and I think that has alot to do with some ppls disagreement in this thread.
     
  22. Widow Maker

    Widow Maker Slightly Crazed
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    It's just that Poops has proven himself to be very very very...very needy and the target of this "need" seems to always be himself. It makes most folks...a little bit ill...one might say.
     
  23. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Me ? Needy ?

    And what should I need if I may ask ?

    I mean, after playing quite a few years I have characters skilled, I have soulstones, I have artifacts, I have gold, I have resources..... I am not sure what all this stuff which I may need could be.......

    Oh, you perhaps meant to say I make requests for the game ?

    Well, that is entirely different.......

    I think I said it countless times and I am not sure how many more times I will need to repeat it. Perhaps I will ask Petra to make a sticky in UHall about it, who knows...

    Usually, generally, most times, when I speak about something which I think would be better for the game is IS, it REALLY is because I think it could make UO a better game regardless whether I may or not have a use for the change.

    I have no personal need of sort or, well, I do have one, be able to play UO cheat-free but that also, I think would be a change to benefit the entire game, overall, long term.

    So, PLEASE, stop thinking that whenever I ask for a change to the game it may be for my beneficial interest because it is not the case, most times. If I see something which I think is not right for the game I say it even though I may not have any particular interest, personally, in that particular part of the game.

    Let's see how many more posts I will need to repeat this again.........
     
  24. Shamus Turlough

    Shamus Turlough Lore Master
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    Personally I have not done a single mini champ since essences started dropping in treasure maps. I get more than enough for what I need to work with from chests now.
     
  25. Green Mouser

    Green Mouser Guest

    The reason given during the Meet was that if you make the ingredients available outside of the Peerless. Then peeps will lose an interest for the Peerless Hunts. I can understand the reasoning can you?
     
  26. popps

    popps Always Present
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    I cannot understand this reasoning because Peerless drop various other things, some VERY VERY VERY valuable (Mark of Travesty, Crimson Cincture or Crystalline Ring anyone ??) which are by themselves a hell of a good reason to hunt Peerless, regardless, and also, the spawning of imbuing ingredients in treasure chests has shown how players still gather those same ingredients also in the other various ways they may spawn.

    That is, having more than one way to get something does not imply using only one of those ways. It can well be, as in many cases it is, that people use all of the various ways to combat tediouseness (i.e. repetitive tasks...).

    Being able to get something in different ways adds VARIETY to the game and makes it possible for players one day to get something in one way and the following day to get it in an ENTIRE different way.

    This, adds to DIVERSITY of game play and make it for a more fun and enjoyable game experience.

    Having, instead, ALWAYS the same one way for year after year after year, it gets OLD, eventually.

    We want the game to be varied, fun and entertaining or boring and dull, repetitive ??
     
  27. Shelleybean

    Shelleybean Certifiable
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    ML peerless have been around for 5 years now without any upgrades in loot or key gathering or AI changes. I like the idea of another way of getting peerless reagents.
     
  28. Gidge

    Gidge Sage
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    This is why the answer seems to remain a no.

    ML ingredients make things that can live forever. Unless you forget to insure them, or lose them to a insurance bug, or somehow it gets stolen or you forget to lock down a container, etc etc.

    The SA ingredients make things that will 'at some point in time' poof. Yes there are ways to make these things last a long long time.


    The SA ingredients also don't have a whole 'experience' involved in obtaining them like the others do. To take away that experience will, as it seems the Developments noted, kill that.

    It is part of what makes those ML items valuable in that there are not tons of them on the market. If a girl can go to any store and buy everything she needs then there is only need of one store. Part of adding a new area, a new expansion, and new items is for us to have different things to do.

    If you keep wanting everything to be obtainable in an easy fashion; what need will there be to explore? Look into the past and see how excited we always get at new content. Do not strip away from new players who can themselves explore and find these new things out, one by one, instead of stealing what fun and excitement they could have just because you no longer wish to have it done that way.

    There IS a reason why we are all still here, don't take that away from others please.
     
  29. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    NewThunder: Lake Austin has a severe shortage of Taint (as in it is NEVER for sale - not even at auction (and working at the auction, I'd see it before anyone else other than my co-workers), and seems to spawn on average about 1 piece every 10 peerless), and most boss-level ingedients that aren't from Melisande or the Effusion. There's also a problem with random freezes & disconnects in many dungeon subservers there, that isn't client based.

    As noted in my previous response (which got removed as I was sleeping after being up 30 hours from driving to and from the town hall, because I wasn't awake to edit out a line of offensive truth), whole parties get hit, rarely with one person left out, none of them with any real commonalities in their means of connection (one party had a satellite user, a DSL user and a cable user from three different states all get frozen - and the only not frozen was the person in either another country, or a 4th state, using dial-up). The danger of freezing up and experiencing total party kill (even if the "party" is you and your pet) makes Peerless a lot LESS attractive on LA than before SA (as, after all, most Abyss hunts have you not far from the silver sapling (if you've already used your seed for the day), or one of the two in-dungeon houses, which typically have a teleporter back to a house in Luna, a bloody ankh that rezzes, or both.

    That answer enough for you?

    I can only answer it so many times for you.

    "If you call for the proof, and you question the answers
    Only the doubt will grow."
    -The Alan Parsons Project, "Ammonia Avenue"

    And, yes - I am NOT for putting this stuff in SOS Chests - Leviathan loot maybe, but not the SOS chests.
     
  30. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    Shamus:

    I talked to other devs at the Town Hall during the break (before that question was asked) who had a completely different opinion than that Dev. Unfortunately, that dev is one of the prime decision makers.

    I also brought up later to EM Pallando that total party kills while trying to get a few taint from some freeze/server hiccup (or perhaps an internet trunk coming into EA) hitting the entire party does NOT add to "excitement" in game - as anyone dealing with an event and their occasional server problems would know.

    Said dev apparently doesn't realize that CC come from Peerless, and frankly, getting a Cincture (or, depending on the boss, a Mark, Crystalline Ring, Chief P's Swampie, etc.) was pretty much ALWAYS the "one reason" (actually the TWO reasons) for doing peerless. Getting peerless ingredients was always a distant 3rd (2nd only if there was nothing worth keeping that was rare boss-specific loot, like the dreadhorn or Melisande).

    Remember: this is also the same dev team that thinks that Chivalry isn't a weapon combat skill like Bushido or Ninjitsu, but a spellcasting skill like Magery, Spellweaving and Mysticism.
     
  31. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    See the above - the "reasoning you understand" is based on a complete misunderstanding of why people do peerless - one you share with Cal, etc.

    Getting the ingredients has ALWAYS been LOW priority (not even CLOSE to being the only one) for Peerless hunts, compared to trying for things like Crystalline Rings, Mark of the Travesty, Parox swampies, or the all-peerless rares like the Crimson Cincture, Totem of the Void and Soul Seeker (the latter two of which are possible off any named ML creature, but I'd venture to guess that most of them that have dropped from 2007-on have been off peerless, or during the hunting of specific named creatures to get peerless keys).

    I've never gone into a peerless hunt with anyone stating "I'm doing this to collect ingredients" as their primary goal. The primary goal has ALWAYS been "PRETTY PLEASE, TNG, DROP ME A CINCTURE!!!"
     
  32. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    You do realize that your position above is inherently contradictory, don't you? Not to mention based on the false premise that it's ML ingredients that are the primary drive for hunting Peerless (instead of the other loot items, which are just as permanent, and a hell of a lot more powerful due to their properties falling into armor/clothing slots that normally don't have their bonuses).

    Once again, I reiterate:

    I am NOT for putting this stuff in SOS Chests - Leviathan loot maybe, but not the SOS chests.

    What I AM against are people making statements based on faulty premises in regards to why people Peerless hunt, and the commonality of such hunting on a shard by shard basis.