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Fix Mysticism..again

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Mervyn, Feb 7, 2011.

  1. Mervyn

    Mervyn Certifiable
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    I see the devs have sneakily overpowered mysticism again by allowing us to heal through mortal (instead of just removing mortal)

    In my opinion, cleansing winds is stronger now than pre patch 69, since pre patch 69 I had to cast cleansing winds 2 or 3 times to remove curse or strangle, however now it's pretty much guaranteed to remove them.

    My concern is, why was the pvp community not consulted on this change? Was it a bit like the incident when a dev got pwned by fields and decidied to change the fields then everyone complained and it was reverted back again? Is there a dev that plays a mystic who is sick of being mortalled?

    Another minor adjustment i notice is that purge magic no longer disturbs, as it happens this does get my approval, however I'd still like to be asked next time.

    Regards Mervyn
     
  2. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    I liked the other changes to mystic. Example, if someone was cursed, corpsed, omened, strangled, and spell plagued cleansing winds heal amount was dramatically reduced for each curse on the target.

    I don't agree with Mervyn that it should be changed back, rather the level of curse that mortal is considered to be needs to be bumped up dramatically.

    People should not be able to remove a mortal and heal 40 points of damage.
     
  3. AzSel

    AzSel Lore Keeper
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    It heals through mortal?? ffs that is OP....fix pls.
     
  4. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    I already posted this in the test forum section.
     
  5. Picus at the office

    Picus at the office Certifiable
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    Ya its super cool chasing down a group only to have a guy with mortal get healed right up...I don't know who thought that was a good idea...add that to the whole party heal and you got a wicked super gimp issue.
     
  6. TheGhostRaider

    TheGhostRaider Journeyman
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    No matter what, their is always a group of ppl that are not happy. I like the fact that i can heal, specially when you get attack by speed hack and who know what.
     
  7. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    If you're going to gank a mystic, the best thing to do right now is dp/lethal and curse. I guess it is sort of lame about mortal, I noticed it the other day. But yeah, infectious remains the cheapest and most efficient special.
     
  8. hawkeye_pike

    hawkeye_pike Babbling Loonie
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    Nerf away, I stopped using Mysticism 4 weeks ago anyway.
     
  9. Mervyn

    Mervyn Certifiable
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    I didn't say it should be changed back, as a mystic mage myself, i would be happy if the spell simply removed curses and poison and healed 0 damage.
     
  10. PJay

    PJay Seasoned Veteran
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    Whats with this endless tinkering with Mystic? Why cant we get some bugs fixed like magic reflect and paralyse?

    Cheers
    PJay [2.0]
    [Mystic mage]
     
  11. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    Just delete Mysticism. And maybe Spellweaving. Oh wait sounds like im talking about a classic shard.

    Seriously tho, Mysticism is still OPed. If you dont consider any of the actually Mystic spells, compared to magery, (one of the UO basics) The focus that acts as eval int is so much more benefitial than eval (obviously the mana and stam regen is basically a bonus)


    I dont like or really play a mystic (have it on my artificer) but its a nice skill for new young players because its so easy.

    Theory craft: allow mysticism only for players in "young" status :p
     
  12. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    I think everything is fine with cleansing winds except for the fact it heals through mortal. I didn't mind it removing it, but healing through it sucks.

    I still also wish they'd tone down protection-cleansing winds a little. Maybe make it so u can paralyze even while they are casting cleansing winds or something.
     
  13. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    So what are you planning to do if the guy also hops into pro-stone form?
     
  14. Mervyn

    Mervyn Certifiable
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    A Brief history of Mysticism:

    1. Spell plague, already quite nice, was changed from a defensive spell to an offensive spell and overpowered mages.

    2. They changed it's damage requirement from Eval to focus - effect was to make the skill more overpowered, but for dexxers instead of mages

    3. A slight change in the way cleansing winds worked (not a nerf) Spell plague was slightly nerfed, however the spells were broken so that they double disturbed (overpowering nobody, just ruining the game) (this has since been fixed)

    4. Cleansing winds now heals through mortal thus overpowing the mysticism skill more than when mysticism was first released.

    In short, each time people have complained that mysticism is overpowered, the changes have resulted in the skill being more and more overpowered.

    RESULT :thumbup1:
     
  15. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    Use a talisman to debuff, or use the mystic spell to debuff. Then nox :0.

    I have a blessed debuff talisman for that job, hehe. Tally is slow though.
     
  16. Elden of Baja

    Elden of Baja Journeyman
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    Thats when I whip out my talisman of Goat Summoning. Nobody Ever see's it coming, and half of them fall out of their chair laughing and die.
     
  17. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    The only debuff ability besides purge has a 1500 cool down. That's a joke to expect that to work in a tight situation where the target can instantly recast the spell and you have to wait... like I said 1500 seconds...

    If it stays this way I say change Hit Dispel on weapons also. Make it dispel a random property on the target you hit instead of dispelling summons.
     
  18. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    Well prot CW spamming mages can be a pain in the ass to kill. But again we still have noobs with baddie suits that get crushing blow for 70 damage in game, chances are they have no idea on how to make a protection supported suit and will most likely to get crushing blow own for 100+. (Dont worry they will come here and cry about it even tho the special is so amazingly underpowered to any pvpers worth a damn).

    The best way to kill a myst mage is with another myst mage is all I can say.

    It's not hard to explain why 99% of the mages and their grandmas flooded the mysticism cookie cutter templates.

    So I guess for dexers you can start doing some lethal poison (lethal point along drops max cleansing wind heal to a laughable 10-15). At least you can spam until they run out of their gcures and then you can kill them before they get to the bank and grab more cure pots. (Maybe this is intended change since a lot of dexer monkeys want their infectious strike spammathon templates back... just instead giving cures a timer they made it a specialty skill in killing those prot myst noobs).
     
  19. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    Lethal poison isn't really a valid counter.. since everyone uses potions.
     
  20. Klapauc

    Klapauc Sage
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    As much as i hate to jump a pvp related discussion, i have to say this...

    I think the main problem with mysticism, is that you get to much utility out of an investment of 240 skill points. No other skill combination in uo is that powerful for that little investment in skill points, be it pvm or pvp.

    Would like to see a revert back to 360 points , make it require imbuing and focus , then they could add some general purpose spells to it.
    It does not fit into uo skills very well when you can run around in pvm with 240 skillpoints and nothing else and do the same stuff like others who did invest 360 points at absolute minimum.
    Stone form, sleep, colossus , healing stone and the high damage spells are way to overpowered for the amount of points invested, compared to other skills. I think that stuff needs to be fixed long term.
     
  21. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    In the context of a gank, a debuff should get the job done. In the context of a 1v1, yeah, it's not that easy to use a tally.

    I was thinking about something as simple as dismount, rather than hit dispel.
     
  22. Gal

    Gal Guest

    If we're already talking about fixing mysticim how about change it that pixies don't triger spell plauge
     
  23. Merion

    Merion Lore Master
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    Yep, that mortal thing is not cool at all!
     
  24. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    Dev response in 3....2....1....
     
  25. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    ..99 .... .98 ... .97
     
  26. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    Honestly.. that is an awesome idea.

    Making hit dispel act as a purge against certain properties or forms. (i'd say it would suck for all properties tho)

    And hit dispel also takes up the "hit spell" spot, so it would have to be a secondary weapon people can throw on when needed.. totally down with this idea. (lol, fighting a char in pro-stone form, disarm weap with 50% hit dispel, disarm them and "purge" goes off. They go from silly to screwed in 1.25s!)

    Outside of that, i wish there was a true way of toppling this as well with other types of mages besides mystic mages. Necros have a way, but its tight. I'm not even thinking have another "purge" ability, just tone it down...
     
  27. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    lol
     
  28. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    Very true... it is the most "diverse" skill set, so many options...
     
  29. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    then when you finally got down to single digit...
    ... 9 ... 8 ... 7... 6 ... 6... 6... 6... 6... 6... 6... 6... 6... 6... 6...6...
     
  30. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    I dunno.. that seems like it would be OP. I might be OK with it if the 100% intensity was only like 30% or something, or if it was a new mod that couldn't be imbued on a new arty like splintering weapon is.
     
  31. Elden of Baja

    Elden of Baja Journeyman
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    I like this idea of "Hit Purge"

    Protection + Cleansing winds = Damn hard to kill with a dexxer

    Even lobbing shurikens and Chaining out AI's every 1.5 seconds its practically impossible to take out a mysto with protection on spamming cleansing winds.
     
  32. chuckoatl

    chuckoatl Guest

    magery + eval can give you the ability to kill and defence chance. So I guess it's OP too. Out with magery altogether I say.


    Thats a joke for those of you that are dumb.
     
  33. Saint of Killers

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    Protection + cleansing winds enables every awful pvp mage the ability to survive any 1v1 dexxer situation they encounter.
     
  34. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    When I offscreen on my archer and let my bandages kick in I can survive 4-5 myst mage full power dumping me. And when I play any of my mages after "EVERY DEXER" did the offscreen on me (oh yes every dexer and their mom do this to a mage) and got me low and if I start offscreen I will get moving shotted down. I mean what comes around goes around it simply sucks being on the receiving end. And if people start complaining about offscreen and demand a "fix" then expect to see a lot more **** storm of QQing.

    Prot cleansing wind is annoying even if you try to kill that newb as any other mage template than a myst mage yourself. Only thing I found that can overpower a prot CW spamming newb without purge is to do a full power dump with my dread on his ass as well... but then again I will be on foot and I cant do anything if he offscreen in that situation neither.
     
  35. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    Was thinking of completely different fix too. Make protection have a pool much like magic reflect. That way you have to use your head for the proper situation to use it in. Inscribe/mage/eval boosts the intensity of your magic reflect pool. The pool would be depleted after a specific amount of damage is taken (like attunement).

    Or maybe implement everything that's been mentioned.
     
  36. Elden of Baja

    Elden of Baja Journeyman
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    4-5 Mystics? They must be REALLY bad. If they hit you with their PRE-casted explos which... always land... and then threw their Super Pre-Casted Boulders at you.... well.... you'd be dead........... Unless by survive you mean run by without stopping at all.


    Not to "Doubt" your mage prowess, but at what health are you starting to run off screen? Do you use a heal stone or have 50% EP and Heal pots? DCI? Mage weapon/Wrestling? Is every archer you fight either a 60% Swing Speed with 150 stamina, or 50% Swing speed with 180 stamina? If they have any hit spell other than velocity, they can't even keep up..... Do they all have resisting spells? Mana Vamp / Evil Omen Mana Vamp and Hell they can't even touch you. 50% block chance, pretty easy to get off a few mini heals or a gheal. Know your Surroundings? Wall of Stone, Para Field, Energy Field? Oh, or my favorite, keep teleporting around into pens or on-top of buildings.......

    Wait, let me guess. A Fencer archer who Bleeds you, Disarms, then Running Shot/AI. Rocks beat Scissors, Refer to Mana Vamp, teleport, fields, and knowing your surroundings.

    I may not be the best mage in the game, Especially when I'm on a step up from dial up internet, but as you Take every topic and go into "DEXXERS ARE OP/NERF BANDIS", I figured a few pointers into your mages bag o Tricks might help you out some.
     
  37. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    Ohh another mage whooped your ass? You know you don't have to come up with all that stupid ass ur a mage excuses we all know what u play. And if you can't even survive. From x number of mages when you can offscreen maybe pvp isn't for you.

    Not to doubt your mage wannabe comment I love how you said mana vamp as a resort to everything. When I have a disarm archer with 120 resist and I love newb mages try to mana vamp me. Face is I can offscreen vs a mage when I am down to 20 hp safely and my bandage will kick in in 3 seconds while if I do the same on a mage next moving shot with hit spell will hit me for 30 and maybe you play a mage and run when you still have 80 hp with healthstone availiable like a scared school girl but when I do run I already chugged and I am really in trouble. Sorry I don't play as ***** made as certain people.

    But then again I can run in straight line and never stop and survive 5 myst mages can you do the same on your mage with 5 disarm archers moving shotting you down? Points are made.
     
  38. Elden of Baja

    Elden of Baja Journeyman
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    I hope this thread doesn't get locked due to this silly little side discussion.

    ========================================================
    In response to WarUltima:

    I can't "Off-screen", Most of the time I play on a step up from 56k and ping between 130-200. I highly doubt that qualifies me as playing a "***** made" or... umm... whatever you were referring too. Also, I think it would be more like "Lagged School Girl" as opposed to a "Scared School Girl". Wait... who's the one off screening?

    5 Precasted Mage Spells + Spell Triggers or a few dexxers who have to get close enough to disarm me, and their hit spell effects on their bows will lag them back.... and I can use my surroundings to my advantage on my mage and teleport, throw up a wall of stone between two buildings, or hell Even go animal form and drop mirror images in key locations slowing down the pursuers (I play a ninja mage so I can laugh at silly disarm Archer Dexxers). I'd take the Mage V.S. 5 dexxer fight any day VS the Dexer VS 5 Mage Fight. Chances of actually killing one of the five is probably much higher with a mage since the mage can herd the masses and create handy Scenarios for fields/summons etc. As opposed to trying to fight five mages where it only takes 2 of them dumping to kill you, which doesn't give you enough time to do enough damage to one of them.... not even counting the crosshealing the other 3 MAGES not required to kill you can do.....

    Honestly I was just trying to offer you some advice, Every post you make is about dexxers and how OP they are/Bandis/ Being able to run off screen. Figured as someone who "Can't" Just go running for the hills I'd offer you some advice as to how to survive since you seem to have such a hard time.

    Play on some crappy internet where you can't just run like a "Scared School Girl", see if you still PvP(I play factions on this crappy internet BTW), then you can make personal attacks about my playstyle/tactics.

    Step 1. Survive
    Step 2. Wait Until the Situation is in your favor
    Step 3. Kill Everyone

    This subject brings back memories of when 5 archers were trying to kill me on my first mysto mage. I Couldn't take them in an open field fight so I lured them to the SL base. I fielded them off 1 by 1, let them have a short duel with a rising collosus and a poison field on them and killed all of them but the last one who tucked his tail between his legs and "Off-Screened". Situation was in my favor, in any other situation I would of been dead, as they had 4 on one end of the bridge and a tamer archer on the other end. Got called a tile hacker in the end because they didn't realize its hard to teleport across that SL bridge :p

    If you wish to whine about dexxers just start your own thread and you can complain to yourself and that one other guy who listens.

    =========================================================

    I would LOVE to see a Pool for protection, could probably just make it work like the Barding Buffs, After soo much damage it just goes away.

    My votes still that cleansing winds should only remove Mortal, not remove it and Heal.

    While their at it, stop the animated weapons from being cast into peoples houses. Guess noone Learned their lesson from when you could do that with Rising Collosus... or natures furies.... :mf_prop:
     
  39. Vaelix

    Vaelix Guest

    Not to single you out, or make comments about *Your* pvp ability, but none of this makes any sense when you are fighting against players who actually have a clue about pvp.

    Take the SL Base for example, the realistic situation there would be 5 Archers just standing on the same tile waiting for you to try to efield/trap them, then you getting hit by 5 AIs and going down instantly.
     
  40. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    He really has no clue what real world PvP is like. Hes trying to make it sound like offscreen doesnt do **** in PvP (yes its essentially godmode vs mage especially in 1v1) and mana vamp works against 100% of the dexers (hmm 3 out of my 5 dexers run 120 resist).

    He said mages can survive vs 5 disarm archers solo as easy as an archer can run away from 5 mages... He talks about turtling and not about killing anything.

    Real PvP is as following...
    Mana Vamp (2 results):
    1. Dexers has no resist -> offscreen till they are confortable about their mana level then they will turn on you again.
    2. Dexer with resist -> laugh at you like you are some kind of ****** and continue wacking on you.

    Pots/Healing Stone...
    -Most dexers has 50EP anyways, healing stone at most helps you reduce in the amount of total pot you have to carry. 50EP Gheal heals for 30 (10 second cooldown) and 120/120 healing stone heals for 35 (15-sec cooldown before it reaches its full potential again and takes like 8 second to recast IF you run out in the middle of fighting).

    Not all dexers are like you...
    -Quite a bit of good dexers makes balanced template with 120 resists.

    Offscreen...
    1. vs Dexer: they have moving shot, instant dismount, and if they flat out has better connection speed than you do they can melee you down while you are "trying to" run away.
    2. vs Mage: All their spells requires them to be FROZEN in place while you can bolt straight line and survive any mage in the entire UO. Yes they have trigger bombard, once every 5 minutes for 22dmg vs 70 physical... on the other hand assuming unlimited mana there can be Four Hundred and Fifty (450) moving shots during a 5-minute span. Or realistically take my disarm ninja 120 resist archer for example, I can dish out 24 consecutive moving shots 1.5s per shot before I run out of mana. My arrow hits for 15-17 + 8 for my possible fireball + 8 for my possible velocity. And if you stop and try to gheal you take a RNG roll on being hit by an AI + Fireball + velocity then Moving shot + fireball + velocity.

    You can field yourself in a base all you want you **** up on 1 field you are dead. (and if you are just doing whatever you can to be "safe" from an outright slaughtered why dont you just stay in tram?).

    And for dexers just like you said they can see 5 myst mages (or 25 or 50) names pop up and instantly run the other way and never stop they will not die... again... try to run away from 5 (or 25 or 50) disarm archers solo on your mage... thanks for proving my points again. (Oh did I mention mages has no instant dismount and you could have been instantly dismounted if one of the archers happens to be stealthing... and even better now a stealth garg thrower can dismount you from 9 tiles away without you even know it... and bola takes hmmmmmmm 3-4 second and you can cancel it by jumping off your horse I wonder what's better... Oh did I mention dismount shot does upward 50 dmg while bola does 3 damage?...... yeaaa go field yourself inside SL base more... I still dont see how you kill anyone ever on your mage tho... your shard has stupid dexers that their entire group will get fielded in and none of them carry teleport scroll/ring? And most champ spawns (where real pvp happens) dont have a 3 tile chock with no alternative route to get to you... open field fight and try to field yourself in and see what happens... rightttt:eyes:
     
  41. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    Isnt that what every guilds do now? You should see how hard 5+ disarm archer gank squad can lay someone down... especially in this case It's 1 single noob mage fielding himself in and wasting time and life (and in champ spawn even dexers can tele scroll and rp him instantly). And this tactics only works in faction bases and not on the rest 99% of UO land mass.

    There hope he learned something new in PvP today... Human 20 + teleport scroll really works!!! Teleport rings exist!!! and they work too!!11 Also to add more salt to the insult... you can actually human 20 + dispel field scroll too... gobbled? :heart:
     
  42. Mervyn

    Mervyn Certifiable
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    I do like the hit purge idea on weapons, but then i'd like purge magic to be a magery spell. Cleansing winds should heal 0 damage. Job done
     
  43. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    Just get a new hit dispel 50% -20 mage weapon bokuto :p.

    That's all they really need to do is change the way Dispel works and change Mass Dispel to mass unsummon or something of that nature.
     
  44. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    Assuming there would be a chance to resist the purge if it went off?
     
  45. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    Of course based on resisting spells skill. Like it is now. Probably less of a casting intensity from a hit proc on a weapon.
     
  46. Elden of Baja

    Elden of Baja Journeyman
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    I'm dropping the subject where I left it. Guild will be doing 2 more transfers, i'm sure one of the shards we play on will be one that you do as well :)