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Follow up - Poor Policy on the part of EA/Mythic *UPDATED*

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Ailish, Aug 27, 2008.

  1. Ailish

    Ailish Lore Master
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    So, last week a GM came to my house and broke my curtains for me. I posted screenies of it here, and also sent in a GM review, as well as an e-mail to Jeremy, asking that it be forwarded to the appropriate party.

    I am not sure if Jeremy got the e-mail or not (guess I should start requesting reciept notifications when I send e-mails like that ...) however I did get the answer back from GM Reviews.

    I dont know if this person is the head GM or if they just have another GM answer you when you send stuff in ... I am familiar with the guy as I have seen him twice in game recently for various issues, so he DOES deal with UO. (and yes, the letter was in block with no spaces - this is a straight copy/paste)

    Anyway, on to the poor policy. I understand, have always understood, why GM's can't/won't replace an item that is "lost" - be it by decay or failed insurance, etc. They cannot - without a huge headache - prove that you did have such item and that it was lost by game mechanics, opening them up for false claims.

    However, when it was the GM themselves that destroyed the item (therefor they knew I had it and knew it was lost via their mistake) ... that is where this is a bad policy. No, it isnt a big item, just curtains, but it is the point that since they broke it, they should fix it.

    I wish there was someone like the old Head GM's that I could actually discuss the matter with ... try to get that policy changed.

    Also, what is with GM's no longer having the "GM" tag in their in-game name? When a ghost with no tag shows up next to me, first thing I think is that someone needs a rez, not, hey, here is a GM!
     
  2. Pawl

    Pawl Guest

    dang, i must be , behind time. when did we get curtains for a house?

    that looks like a standerd reply form.

    Gm won't relpace any lost items..

    Question thou, why did GM come and delete it or come in and break it?
     
  3. Ailish

    Ailish Lore Master
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  4. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    The sad part is the GM is probably going to get a bad mark on their record, which may or may not end up costing them their job. Just because he screwed up and wasn't allowed to simply replace a rather common in-game item. If this happened 5 years ago the GM would have simply deleted the curtain and gave you a new deed.
     
  5. Heritage tokens anyone?
     
  6. Sadoul

    Sadoul Guest

    Does anyone remember the AOS launch when player's backpacks were actually falling to the ground? I specifically remember them replacing items for that fiasco.

    Coincidentally, I lost a ton of items to the ban bug at the same time. This was a bug that allowed friended players to your house to ban items to the front steps and then walk away with them. This was the same bug that allowed front doors to be banned in this manner if you remember seeing those. They did not replace any of the items I lost. GM Platinum did come and look and then basically said "sorry".

    I guess I am saying that they have replaced items in the past. But their history has been hit and miss. I think your case is pretty cut and dry. They should give you new heritage tokens. However, it might be the case that GMs cannot create items to curb potential corruption from GMs. Can items be created "at will" in the game by gms or developers?
     
  7. AirmidCecht

    AirmidCecht twitch.tv/airmid
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    Congratulations Ailish, this is definitely a step in the right direction!

    I am glad you got an official response that was not automated. It means someone has reviewed it and can use it as a training experience. Although you have not personally benefited and had your items replaced, we all benefit that you addressed it. Many players would have shrugged in disgust and vented incoherently and then let it go.

    So thank you!

    hrmmmm, wait a second here. I think a round of thanks is due.

    If we cannot get customer service to recognize that when a GM does the boo-boo a bandage with a kiss is in order, then perhaps the players that offered before to help you with curtains will do so again because again, it is the principle involved here, not the actual item. I for one would like to offer whatever I have on your shard as a token of my thanks.

    Hugs,
    Airmid
    (yes I am really really big on customer service)
     
  8. Sebrina

    Sebrina Guest

    Tiss a very good post without a rant... Comprehensive because you included the follow-up. I'd still like to know why the GM showed up at your house in the first place. Was he/she paged?

    I had a picture once that lodged in a very strange possition. GM showed up when paged and simply dislodged it, giving it back to me and told me not to try placing the item back in that corner again...obviously a game bug.
     
  9. Landicine

    Landicine Seasoned Veteran
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    Years ago I placed a boat in a problematic spot. So problematic, that several rocks were going through the deck. This of course made the ship have a "cluttered deck." I pages a GM, and he used his power to move the entire ship to another spot where I could redeed it. I'm pretty sure it is within GM power to move objects in ways players can't. Also GMs can walk between walls and do all sorts of things. Why didn't he just make an axe in his own pack, walk through the wall or floor, axe the item to a deed, and hand it off? Or delete the items and make a new item of the exact same type? There are ways he could have solved the original problem had he actually known what he was doing (by maybe, receiving proper training).

    I know there were times where GMs had too much liberty with their power, and some abused it. However, if they are actually causing problems they are unable to fix, that is just as bad.

    In some ways, it almost seems like we have GMs that have become drones to policy, so much that they can't do their job (the minimum punishment is 24hour ban no matter what, we can't replace items even if we destroy them).
     
  10. Loqucious

    Loqucious Guest

    That is total crap, they should replace your item.
     
  11. Redxpanda

    Redxpanda Lore Keeper
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    I agree completely. It makes no sense to have GMs if you can't trust them with the god power. All you have now are people to ban and say they can't help you with that. There should be no worries about any of them abusing the power.
     
  12. Aboo

    Aboo Guest

    Ailish,

    I am not sure what shard you play, but if I have anything of interest to you on that shard you are welcome to it!

    P.S. I read your original post and the picture you posted says "Napa Valley". I checked and I have several chars there but appears they don't have any heritage tokens. However, they each have a valentine box. You could have all of them and turn them in for points if you like.
     
  13. Infiniti

    Infiniti Guest

    Ailish if you are on the LS Shard pm me and I will give you a Heritage Token. Your posts have hopefully helped fix at least a small part of gm response. :)
     
  14. Ailish

    Ailish Lore Master
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    Yes, I paged because the curtains place on the outside of the wall (in the void of a keep that is inaccessable).

    For those offering tokens, thank you much, I do have a guildmate who will give me one. It isnt that I am game-poor, far from it, they are just a bit hard to find at a reasonable price currently :) Just because I have gold doesnt mean I wish to waste it lol

    You are all correct, it is the principle that I was going after ... and am still trying to think of a way to take it higher up the ladder.

    (Side note, when I was writing that post yesterday, I spent an hour trying to think of the word principle and it simply evaded me! Thank you Airmid for finally providing me with the word!)
     
  15. Wow...... [​IMG]

    I think this situation could have been handled much more appropriately from the jump.
     
  16. Doomsday Dragon

    Doomsday Dragon Visitor

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    I think you make a pretty valid point with all of this. EA likes to twist the rules as needed and use them to cover for mistakes they make. I agree bad policy all around.
     
  17. Elric_Soban

    Elric_Soban Babbling Loonie
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    I wouldn't expect much.

    Aside from the fact that I can still physically log into the servers, I have seen NO indication whatsoever in the past couple of months that UO even has a dev team.
     
  18. AirmidCecht

    AirmidCecht twitch.tv/airmid
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    Thats a bit of a strrrreeeeetchhhh in my book. We've had lots to do, so much so we're just now getting a wee bit of a break. I don't like to blanket blame and why I've hopped on the Ailish bandwagon. She has been respectful and specific on what her problem was with a GM breaking her items in game and what she would like to fix it. I still feel it's a great opportunity for customer service to step up and show they are capable of fixing this one. It's an easy fix and one that shows less ego and more humility towards the community.

    C'mon now, hat in hand, "I'm sorry I broke your items."
     
  19. Ailish

    Ailish Lore Master
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    Airmid has hit it very much on the head ... Customer Service could definitly get some GOOD press for once, if only they will step up and do the right thing. This game is supposed to be about Virtues ... it would be to their definite advantage to remember that ...
     
  20. Ailish

    Ailish Lore Master
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    Well, today I got a reply to my re-petition. It has some interesting aspects, which I will bold, tho they were not bolded in the original mail.

    Okay, this guy is very nice, but it is the SAME PERSON who answered me before. Nothing against him, but if I request a review of the review, should it not go to a person above him?

    Second, the GM's no longer have the power to create in-game items? Okay, that could be a good thing, but it also speaks volumes about how lowly GMs actually are now. Added to the fact that they no longer use official tags in game (thus taking away their credibility to some extent) I am now wonder exactly what use they are beyond moving objects and taking someone to jail.

    I guess now I push on to e-mail Jeremy again, hoping for a response this time. If the GM's cannot fix their own mistakes, apparently I need a developer, whom I get at via Jeremy? This is a sad situation.

    In case anyone is interested, this is the message he was replying to:

     
  21. AesSedai

    AesSedai Guest

    Consider if they did still have the power to restore and/or create items for others. Then consider if they have friends or even their own dummy accounts. That is one example of why I think they chose to make this a blanket policy ~ it minimizes the possibilities of corruption in addition to other benefits.
    But in your case, it just causes pure frustration because the GM is the one who destroyed your legit item; and it probably did cause the GM's file to get a mark as well.. which is probably frustrating for the GM as well, because GM was truly trying to help you out, and the curtains kind of just blew-up on both of ya'll.
     
  22. Ailish

    Ailish Lore Master
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    AesSedai, I understand your point (which was where I said it could be a good thing that they no longer have that power). However, I do not have sympathy for the GM that "assisted" me. It was not just a "who knew that would happen thing", it was a failure of knowing the mechanics of the game s/he was supposed to be supporting. Hopefully this situation gets that GM some more training; but if I make a mistake for failing to know the mechanics of my job, I SHOULD get a mark on my record.
     
  23. AesSedai

    AesSedai Guest

    - Hehe :blush:
    I knew I was feeling a case of the deja vu. ;)
    Probably 95% of all other stuck house decorations would have come out just fine, but the curtains were an exception & we all know that sometimes stupid stuff happens.
    I'm trying to make light of the situation, sure; but I'm not at all trying to begrudge you for being frustrated.
     
  24. Mitzlplik_SP

    Mitzlplik_SP Guest

    Wow,all this over some curtains. :coco:
     
  25. Ailish

    Ailish Lore Master
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    *sigh* It isnt the curtains. Those are easily replaced. It is the principle. What if it had been a pair of Inquis the GM destroyed? A server rare?

    Remember, just a couple days ago a GM didnt know that the corroded box was supposed to be a keepsake, and that it has an issue (announced by Jeremy) and was going to destroy it for another player. Is that okay that our GM's are so *not knowledgable* about our game that they will just destroy things they dont know about??
     
  26. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    I understand the whole thing on the principle. I'm sure if some took the time to actually think it over before posting they would understand it as well, hopefully. I do think they should replace the item just because of the fact that a GM actually destroyed it after trying to fix it.
    It could even happen to really poor people in the game who just happen to have bought a token, suddenly they are out X number of gold and/or effort to actually get it. Not everyone in UO is rich.
     
  27. AirmidCecht

    AirmidCecht twitch.tv/airmid
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    Well done on the follow up letter Ailish! I whole heartedly agree on your point, it is not the curtains but if someone were here saying they deleted something that was irreplaceable the line would be long with daggers and knives poking the point to death.

    Between this and the corroded box issue, it is highlighting to people who should be aware of this that some better training is definitely in order. Thank you again for sticking with it like a dog on a bone.
     
  28. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    This isn't about just some single item in the game, and if you can't see it, maybe you need chlorine in your genepool.