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For the Record Heartwood Quests are not stupid or dumb

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Lord Sir Scott, Aug 30, 2008.

  1. Lord Sir Scott

    Lord Sir Scott Lore Keeper
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    sorry but i enjoy that Part of UO..

    Thats all i wanted to say.
     
  2. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    I'll freely admit I liked them a LOT better BEFORE they nerfed the rewards down to junk.

    The Bottle Quest was BY FAR the biggest mistake of a quest ever added.
     
  3. Frarc

    Frarc Stratics Legend
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    I must say, with the KR client the crafters quests are easy to do. :)
     
  4. Spree

    Spree Babbling Loonie
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    The bottle quest should have been something from glass blowing
     
  5. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    Technically it IS something from glassblowing. The problem is that it was a stacked something you could buy off of NPCs as well.

    You can make potion bottles from glassblowing.
     
  6. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    You enjoy carpal tunnel and tendinitis?

    :sleep2:
     
  7. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    Mark as Quest Item... it's a beautiful thing.
     
  8. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    So... your not clicking the mouse five thousand times, but twenty five hundred... instead, before you get something decent?

    Good 2 Know.
     
  9. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    Right now I'm not, but I did last Town Hall meeting and it worked out well because it netted me a LOT of Spring Cleaning points. Not having to click 10 items constantly WAS much nicer.
     
  10. love2winalot

    love2winalot Guest

    No quest in the game should be able to be done more than once. How many damn crossbow bolts does the stupid boyer need to see? Yes, it is stupid, and ********. It does not matter if scripters like it. :gun:
     
  11. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    There's no interaction... it's not like a real quest, which is the problem that I have with it... it's a repetitive task, that's it.

    Imagine if they had implemented it this way instead.

    You open up a quest, which is to set up a small army of 10 NPCs with armor, weapons, potions, whatever... in order to accomplish some kind of heroic task (such as slaying a dragon and saving a princess) and depending on how well, what you made is... determines the chance of their success.

    It is not the 10 items you pick, but the first 10 you make for them (otherwise people would just automatically pick the best.) and each person requires something different (say you have a mage, a knight, a bard, so on and so on...)

    So, your job in this "Quest" is to equip the hunting party. You make arcane clothing, suit of platemail, weapons, potions, shields, spellbooks (full), so on and so forth, completing the quest order... once you have completed it... the hunting party sets out to accomplish their task.

    2 days later (or x amount of time) you receive notification via pigeon (some kind of in game messaging system) that the quest is over and they have returned from their adventure, ready to share the spoils with you... or to tell you that they have failed.

    You get a hand full of good items, a good chance for a runic, gold and various other things... as well as a detailed report of how the adventure went and what took place... with many different stories to read and parties to equip and just different things to do.

    I think it would even be awesome if, you could get 10 or so of your buddies, and they actually DO the quest, but can only complete the quest, wearing your items which were marked for the quest. Where everyone shares the loot.


    And that's just off the top of my head.


    And now we're sitting here discussing how handing in 10 of the same item, 5 billion times is actually worth someones time.... or maybe we're discussing how cool it is that we're not making them 1 at a time, but 10 at a time... like that isn't the same damn thing.

    ....


    This game could be SOOOO much more interactive... it's not even funny.
     
  12. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    I must disagree.
     
  13. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    You disagree that he enjoys that part of UO?
     
  14. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    Indeed. :scholar:

    It is humanly impossible.
     
  15. Frarc

    Frarc Stratics Legend
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    Its funny how people give silly remarks on what other people enjoy!

    I don't like PvP and don't even wanne do it . But i can understand that people enjoy doing it. Let people play and do whatever they want as long they have fun.

    Kinda selfish to think that your own playstyle is the only fun and right one :lick:
     
  16. Beefybone

    Beefybone Visitor

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    You're broken inside.
     
  17. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    The remarks are silly, because I was kidding... well, not about my opinion of it, but his... as I'm sure Kelmo was too.
     
  18. GarthGrey

    GarthGrey Crazed Zealot
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    Yeah, I especially liked the way Tiamat and others abused the hell out of it,and then made postings begging the Devs to change it, which of course they did..
     
  19. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    Different strokes for 'special' folks.
     
  20. Surgeries

    Surgeries Grand Poobah
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    That was so fargin lame.

    They should have deleted all of the L33t stuff Tiamat got, and THEN changed it.

    Every single item...and taken away all gold begotten from the abuse, as well..:gun:
     
  21. Hanna

    Hanna Guest

    Actually people with active normal lifes or high stress jobs, often enjoy that kind of thing, mining is a good example, most people find it horribly boring, but can be a very relaxing play style.
     
  22. Pawain

    Pawain Crazed Zealot
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    I enjoyed the old rewards. And I sure would not call myself overpowered because I use them....

    Heartwood sure did empty when they nerfed the rewards.

    Now they are handing out 100% LRC suits with 70 resist and call the bottle quest rewards overpowered?
     
  23. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    Please...

    it goes to show how little you know about the KR craft system.

    Let's see...

    Not counting the clicks to get the quest, and get the reward, with KR, you set the "mark as quest item" and the "make number".

    After then, you only have to click ONCE per quest.

    Like this, for an archery quest

    0. Open your fletching tool, select item you are going to make (assumes same quest every time)

    1. Set Mark as Quest item (never have to reset it, either, once it's on, it's on, and of course only marks stuff you have a quest for)

    2. Set Make number to "10"

    3. Get the quest you want (may take one click, may take 20 - but it's pretty much standard that people do the same quest over and over).

    4. Klick the button to make the item. in a few seconds you have 10 marked items.

    5. redeem the completed quest (takes 2 clicks, regardless of client)

    Repeat 3-5 until your tool runs out, then switch to a new tool, reloading with wood as necessary.

    That's
    4 clicks to set up (open tool, selecting item, mark as quest and make number)

    random number of clicks to get the right quest each time (minimum of 2 - one of which is to accept the offored quest), by reclicking the NPC without closing quest window.

    3 clicks to complete each quest

    material reload is extra, and one extra click for each new tool (as long as you stay in it remembers the settings - have to repick the item to be made on each log-in, but the others stay active, barring some forms of client crash).

    If I set up 2 open packies, and don't count the clicks to reload the wood into my pack (or to move quest rewards out of my pack when I started getting heavy - which hits around 30 quests), I could do the following (assumes 2 250-use tools)

    2-4 clicks to set up my first tool (make number and mark as quest may already be marked)

    25 quests from the first tool = 150 clicks, plus the number of quests I clicked through as rejects.

    Click once on second tool to open it - it remembers the other settings, so no changes needed.

    25 quests from the second tool = 150 clicks, plus the number of quests I clicked through as rejects.

    Total number of clicks: 303-305, plus however many quests I rejected for being the wrong quest of 6 possible choices. I would have to average 14 rejects per quest done to get to 1000 clicks. That's far less than 5000 or even 2500.

    I typically go to heartwood on my archer/bowyer, to train arms lore doing the quests (And hoping for a runic tool). I take 2030 wood (1 packy plus 430 wood on me) for 29 quests. On average, it takes me 35-45 minutes to do those 29 quests, with about 20% the time wasted trying to get the same quest over and over. If I could get the same quest over and over again on demand, it would take me about 30 minutes per trip.
     
  24. feath

    feath Guest

    It really depends on the criteria of 'stupid'.
    Potentially, I see this move as having one of the deepest impact on the game I've seen yet.
    You guys aren't following the food chain.
    The heartwood quests are done, basically, for two reason. Kits and recipes.
    The kits, as we know, have gotten out of hands of the elves and into other, shall we say, more worldly hands. Changing this part of the game can, and very likely will, make a huge impact.
    The normal recipes could also be impacted.
    no more pendant of the magi, stichers mittens, britches, scrappers... those and more are recipe driven. I've managed to get all my recipes. There are players coming up behind me that haven't. Will they be able to get them? just selling the recipes themselves is an income. How will this change?
    If those recipes become harder to get - oi.
    Take a look at the vendors now. I used to stack pendants, mittens, britches and scrappers in my vendors, and need to keep them stocked constantly. I dont now - I don't even make them. Because of the cost of the reg's needed to make them, it cost MORE to make them than anyone will buy them at.
    The loss of these items will impact players, as they get worn out, tossed out or lost.

    Yes, these items aren't high end - they aren't HoMs or Ornies. But the new and mid-range players can't afford those items. They can afford britches and pendants. if this is lost, how will it effect those players?

    heartwood quests, while very repetitive, can be done by anyone, and has the penitential to influence the game strongly. Messing with it can be consequences that might not be seen right off, but it WILL be seen at some point.
     
  25. Jhym

    Jhym Guest

    The problem with the quests is that from a story and game perspective they make no sense. Why in the world would Elves need footstools and broadswords and tinker's tools? Not to mention millions of them. (Plus, isn't it interesting that the supposedly peaceful elves need so many weapons and armor?)

    The quests need to be retooled to make them more interesting and less 'put token in wall, press button, DING, get pellet'.

    An example, make them a bod-like system, where you get a contract to make specific items. The items would be semi-randomly selected from the items you the character can make. The rewards would be as random, but the better quality you give the bod items the more likely you get something better (consider it a luck bump for exceptionals.)

    Ah, but then people would have to THINK and INTERACT, rather than press a button and take the pellet from the wall.

    Silly humans.
     
  26. AesSedai

    AesSedai Guest

    - Aye, I enjoyed them too (& even after they drastically lowered the quality of the rewards); until the unattended 'players' began to take over.
    It took some time and that made it rewarding.
    Unfortunately cheaters do not spend time, thus it quickly became unrewarding.
    So as a result, I stopped trying and I lost my desire to buy the rewards.
     
  27. Sindris

    Sindris Guest

    They are tedious, boring and they practically REQUIRE scripting to be a worthwhile use of anyone's time.
     
  28. Coppelia

    Coppelia Guest

    That makes them so intelligent now you said that. :danceb:


    Heartwood quests are for bots.
     
  29. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    Heartwood quests and fishing are good activities when you have somethin else you're doing at your computer desk (i.e. folding/hanging laundry or listening to a Town Hall Meeting).

    I was at D&B's on LS for this meeting, but last one, I was in Heartwood cranking out Tinker's Tools quests in KR for junk talismen and recipes for the Spring Cleaning turn in. Got a good number of point from them too, so it was well worth it IMO.

    Another good time is when I'm doing a small desk project (i.e. sorting real life collection items for whatever reason). I can let Fishing or the crafting run, do some of the project, change spots or fight a serpent if fishing, or turn in the completed crafting quest and start a new one and go back to the project.

    Not unattended because I'm always at the computer when I'm doing this.
     
  30. Yeah, the 40mil I've made over the past few weeks by doing every quest while sitting in front of my comp (using KR of course) was a complete waste of time.....

    :coco:
     
  31. Lord Bishop

    Lord Bishop Seasoned Veteran
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    Um yes because 40 mil = 40 dollars rl cash nowadays so spending a week doing mindless quests is a waste of time and possibly your real life.
    Just my opinion mind you and not a personal attack of your enjoyment :hug:
     
  32. What does how much the gold is worth in RL money do with the fact that doing the Heartwood quests can be lucrative? I'm missing the connection here.

    I also didn't mention the blessed Curse Removal talismans I've gotten for my tamer, nor the blessed Vermin slayer talisman that I sold, nor the several bows that I've enhanced and now sit in my archer's bow collection, nor the upgrade of several of my crafter's talismans for some of their skills. All that would add up to quite a bit more. Then there's the 2.3 million Spring Collection points that I've gotten from turning in the recipes and talismans that I get from each quest, which will end up turning into at least a couple of hundred million more. :lick:
     
  33. Badskidmarks

    Badskidmarks Guest

    Okay I've seen reference to this bottle quest before....which one is this exactly?
     
  34. Lord Bishop

    Lord Bishop Seasoned Veteran
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    Connor I was basically saying you spend to much time at the computer. I never understood how you could have 10X the normal amount of everything ingots, wood, craftsmen quests, bods. You name it you got it and still only be one person. Do you outsource your labor? Just baffles me how so damn much of eveything you do and you still have time to post on every thread. AMAZING!!!!
    :lick:
     
  35. Simple. I play smarter, not harder. :lick:
     
  36. GarthGrey

    GarthGrey Crazed Zealot
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    Connor hasn't fooled everyone LB, he just thinks he has...
     
  37. I don't know what you think that I think I'm fooling anyone about, but I certainly haven't tried to fool anyone about anything. Everything I say I've done I most certainly have. If you have proof to the contrary please feel free to post it, otherwise you're statement is just that much hot air.
     
  38. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    This.
     
  39. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    There are people who Bot it, illegally - I was talking about doing it by hand. Frankly, filling quests with a minimum of clicking is about the only thing that works right in KR crafting.

    Of course, you've probably never read the guides I've done that show that the optimum means of training Bowyer/fletcher is USING the heartwood quests - and you can train up arms lore in the process, or as an afterthought by having it go up, while you try for runics.

    Frankly, it's the carpenter, tailor, tinker & smith Heartwood quests that need retooled, to allow them to "take over" for New Haven quests, once the character skill hits 50 (they can, in places, but not for the whole training process - see my studies of the training process on UO Craftsman). Maybe they'd seem a bit more intelligent to you, then.
     
  40. Lord Kotan

    Lord Kotan Slightly Crazed
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    What makes them so easy? just curious
     
  41. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    Heartwood crafting quests in KR:

    Pull off mobile health bar from appropriate NPC
    Double click Healthbar until you get the quest you want (same as 2d to this point)
    Open crafting tool
    Select item to make
    Check "Mark as Quest Item"
    Check "Make Number" and choose 10 (or whatever the number of items desired)

    From here you repeat from the break

    Click Make Now
    Double click mobile health bar to turn in
    Double click mobile health bar until you receive quest
     
  42. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    Open the KR crafting gump for the tool
    You set the "Make Number" to the number of items.
    You set "Mark item as Quest item"
    (note that these will stay set, even if you log out or change to a new tool of the same type).
    Now, choose the item to be made.

    As long as you have the materials in the top level of your pack, and the required number of uses on the tool, you can make all the items for that quest AND mark them as a quest item with ONE click of a button

    1. Get quest (2-whatever clicks, to get the one you want)
    2. Hit the button to make the items (ONE click)
    3. Get the reward (2 clicks)

    Compare that step 2 to what it takes in 2D. Depending on the quest (10 to 25 items), that would be

    2.a. either 1 (UO Assist) or 10-25 clicks to make the items,
    2.b. then 10-25 clicks to mark the items.
    2.c. all of which will take 2-3 times longer than the KR method, due to the "time hiccup" that occurs trying to mark items too quickly.