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For those who blame our economy crises on "subprime" lending..

Discussion in 'UO Siege Perilous' started by Ole Cheapy, Dec 23, 2008.

  1. Ole Cheapy

    Ole Cheapy Guest

  2. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    ugh... you work in the industry so I have no idea how you can be that ignorant? (making this claim for your title choice to the article listed.)

    The whole mortgage mess comes from the day the American people thought it was a good idea to turn a home... into a commodity. But, few actually realize or even understand this.

    The whole problem stems back to Clinton and Alan Greenspan (Greenspans bubbles) When the clintons pushed for sub-prime lending so "poorer folks" could finally own a home... they were pandering to votes and ****ing this country in the butt cheeks. They even made it so banks had to carry sub-prime debt to deal with freddie mac and fannie mae... and we wonder why we now had to bail them out for this stupid move (and I'm sure blame bush for it too!)

    Home values and prices ONLY go up (or should) with income. That is why homes are worth more in New York, New York than Omaha NE...

    When people started buying homes to sell them at a higher price just because they could... well what did you all think would happen?

    Besides... I've got a bridge in florida to sell you... want to buy it?
     
  3. Mogluk

    Mogluk Guest

    no clue how that one lender is responsible for all our problems, did they state that ALL lenders were charging higher prices for loans and fees to minorities? no, I think it was short sighted that they would chareg economically disadvantaged people higher interest unless they thought to take their home and sell for more profit (which would be even more despicable).

    Have to agree with BR, Clinton and the idea that everyone should own a home is ridiculous. It is similar to the idea that everyone should succeed, that is just crap. Succeeding, owning your own home or business is a goal that you work for and many people fail or stumble several times before they get it right and get the gold ring. Lets make success a goal rather than make mediocrity the norm (because that's just socialism).
     
  4. Sweeney

    Sweeney Guest

  5. QueenZen

    QueenZen Always Present
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    I blame a lot of AMERICANS also. Granted everyone wants a home. But have ya seen some of the homes that some of these new first time buyers and those with sub prime incomes went to purchase with this silly concept ?

    Our first home was a piece of crap nearly on 11 acres of Wisconsin farm *swampland* a house that dated back to the era of Pres. Zach. Taylor. We had to make lots of improvements like .......insulation.....proper wiring, and the like AS we COULD afford it. In the end that home when we had to sell it due to being transferred south...... yet the Wisconsin home and land afforded us and got us a nice *middle class one level floor 4 bedroom home* in 84... . which NOW is paid for about 5 yrs. back. Now when we moved here we even opted NOT to go for the then 95k homes...........cuz we still had small kids to raise and so forth. WE tried not to buy a home OVER our income nor begged for that which we could not afford then via loans..we had quite a downpayment on that 2nd home now paid for. WE do not plan to UPGRADE to some mansion.......we are now retired and have an entire 4 bedroom home for 2 *old folks* :) PAID FOR fricken paid for..on airline wage cuts 2x over the years to nearly 40 % loss of income..and jobs I had also closing down.

    WE MANAGED simply by not asking for nor begging for something above our means....that is the trouble with folks all over USA today..GIMME GIMME I WANT the biggest home NOW.......as new buyers newlieweds above their means trying to get loans they apparently got ABOVE their means. Why could they the feds banks everyone just not go for the 250k houses right off the bat.............DOH ! Homes are work up as we grow mature get more income etc. and PAY our bills living within our means....worked for us should work for everyone whom WORKS for a living or trys to !
     
  6. Hef

    Hef Guest

    Seriously you guys are so biased in your political opinions spouting out the same nonsense over and over. We get it Mo'gluk and Black Rain are young Republicans who listen to Rush Limbaugh and Cheapy is an Obama supporter who defends minorities. The true problem is simply GREED gone out of control. Capitalism is inheritly built upon greed. The "What's in it for me attitude" which applies to corporations, special interest groups, and the average lazy overweight American is what is ripping this country apart. Look at all the corruption and underhanded **** going on in the government and private sector. You guys just waste your breathe with your talking points. America is doomed and will be dethroned soon so just play UO and enjoy your life while you can. :)
     
  7. Hera - Siege

    Hera - Siege Lore Master
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    Not always that simple though. My wife and I lived in Bay Area of California and we were paying about $200 less per month RENTING than it would cost us to BUY. It was a stretch to buy, but it was silly to rent a house with NO HEAT and ****ty locks in Oakland when we could buy one for little bit more per month [$1200 rent -vs- $1400 mortage]. I would have loved to buy a house for $600/month but it just isn't possible there.

    There's a lot of issues with housing, while subprime lending may be the straw that broke the camel's back, there's other factors that seriously contributed to whole reason subprime lending was instituted.
     
  8. QueenZen

    QueenZen Always Present
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    I agree with ya on the Calif. housing prices. My brother went to SanFrancisco back in the hippy era and became a home owner in San Francisco 250k back then...........some long time ago but his home is upaid ie.. still on mortgage.

    Meanwhile of our 3 kids all married and grown, the east coast couple our son his wife 'own' a very pricey Connecticut home 30 yr. mortgage over them, which they will be paying for probably for forever but luckily they both work. Our Indianna daughter and her husband 'own' a nice home there, 30 yr morthgage though for them, they are just newliweds 3 yrs ago. but she has high income as a coronary nurse and housing middle usa is less.

    Meanwhile our other daughter and her husband of 12 yrs both NAVY personnel over the years. . still only rent a small townhome in SanDiego area. Doubt they will own a home any time soon unless they move which he said they may go to Texas yet just cuz calif too pricey..so they tell me.

    Nah we were very lucky over the years...carefully watching our money, buying probably less than we could afford being cautious over the years..but all our home buying was also middle USA prices Wisconsin and down south here...Our mortgage was a 20 yr one and we paid that off and our vehicles are paid off too. But then we always lived in middle of the USA one state or another..bit cheaper.
     
  9. QueenZen

    QueenZen Always Present
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    One can also blame the architects and the realators too to some degree.
    Just around this area of Memphis top of Mississippi, when we were transferred here in 84, the brand new homes being built were 90k 95k basically 3 bedroom one or two floors and around 1800 to 2k sq footage. Then somewhere along the way probably with the SUV generation :) ...the architects realators etc. started primarily building the mega homes 200k 250k large sq. footages, 4 - 6 bedrooms etc. and they seemed to quit building designing your basic...smaller homes middle sizes etc. all new homes went large to gigantic in sizes and CO$t.

    bleh !!
     
  10. Jaimes

    Jaimes Guest

    I agree with QZ: We Americans need to start living within our means. Loans became too accessible, and people became too frivolous about taking them out. I went to a few lectures at my college about this whole mess, and I learned a bunch of mumbojumbo about this stuff which I no longer remember, but suffice to say, almost everyone in America is responsible for the trainwreck we're in right now (every kind of financial institution, most people taking out loans, most people buying/building homes, etc).
     
  11. Lorddog

    Lorddog Crazed Zealot
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    your numbers may be off. there is always more to pay when owning a house as to renting. your escrow could be a hugh amount of it.

    but then the good side is you can claim the interest and items on your taxes so you might be able to make that difference back if it is only $200 difference for real.

    I know with my house I bought near the peak 3 yrs ago I didnt think would be anywhere near as what I am paying now. (yes it is fixed rate) but the taxes jumped and the HOA jumped and insurance jumped.

    Lorddog
     
  12. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    Just a note to all... I am generally tolerant of these types of OT threads. If it becomes a headache to moderate it will be over and the penalties will fall as they may.

    Keep it clean, keep it topical, and do not attack the poster. Debate with thoughts and ideas, facts over attacks...

    Lord knows some enjoy a good debate. Respect one another, even if you disagree with the reasoning and words.
     
  13. Hef, not all billionaires are "overweight" look at the fine man calling himself Bill Gates. Did he not earn the RIGHT to be one of the richest men?

    What about Sharon Stone? Shes pretty wealthy, yet not overweight. Jennifer Anniston, Jessica Biel, Brad Pitt, Jessica Simpson...etc etc etc...Greed is part, especially when these people who take advantage of the people who make them rich, then live somewhere other than the US to keep from paying taxes...The middle class want to watch TV, and go to sports games and root for the home team. And the rich, give us that.

    Its the Rush Limbaugh's, Keith Olberman's that are out there getting stones thrown at them for telling it "like it is". While Howard Stern has probably more listeners due to his lame ass juvenille commentary and entertainment value.

    Wealth is out there for you, you just need the drive to get it. Not all of us middle class are ********....present party excluded....:)

    So who is the rich, the overweight, the gullible?
     
  14. Mogluk

    Mogluk Guest

    Hef, I don't hide the fact taht I am conservative, but I am far from republican. I believe in rewarding those who shed blood, sweat and tears to succeed. I also believe that to a point there does need to be assistance to those who legitimately need some help but it should be temporary, of limited use and more individualized rather than blanket programs. large blanket subsistence programs (welfare, low income housing, medicare, to name a few big ones) have almost unversally shown that although they do help some people they are also the source of immense amounts of corruption by both parties.

    I am in favor of more parties and the creation of blocks you see in the japanese and european parliamentary systems, but combine it with capitalism (as I do believe that capitalism is the source of our country's success). The secret with Capitalism is to keep oversight in pace withthe increase in technology and ways taht big business attempts to make money.

    I am of firm agreement that greed in almost every level of our gov't and wall street has led us to the precipice of destruction. I think the answer will most likely be a swing for a time to more socialist ideals and then a more capitalist swing in a few years.

    socialist economies work for a time but then they try to fight away from it. many of the socialist countries of the last 40 years are trying to break away from sucha tight Gov't hold on their societies. China in its wisdom is pushing to allow a limited capitalist structure within its society, why? becaus ecapitalism makes money, and in the vein power. I don't believe that they will ever be completely captiatlist but watch for them to be the powerhouse for the next 50 years.
     
  15. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    Ugh... Greed is a human trait... if you think you can control it, then you should be running the world.

    I also have no idea where you got the notion that I'm a republican... if anything, I'm a libertarian.

    I think you did make a good point about me wasting my breathe because no one listens... this is merely me getting things off my own chest/mind. People form their own opinions on their own accords whether right or wrong.

    Since we're on the subject and since there are a lot of mis-truths in this thread... for anyone interested in really understanding the housing sector of our economy... take a look at this website.

    http://patrick.net/housing/crash.html

    and whoever said it was right... renting, is the way to go. Buying "a home" is all about smoke and mirrors and with the circumstances of the situation we've put ourselves in... I don't recommend anyone buy a home unless you've thoroughly researched it and perhaps are even lucky enough to live in a buffered area where home values are stable... or are married because waffles love nesting. (As you can tell... I'm not getting married any time soon! ;) )
     
  16. Ole Cheapy

    Ole Cheapy Guest

    Queen I dont know where you get the idea of people buying homes above their income cuz there is no such thng as subprime stated program, the only borrowers who get homes based on a stated income and not income that can be proved with w'2s and paystubs are rich people. Besides subprime borrowers couldn't buy homes above their income even if they wanted to, that's why you have a thing called DTI (debt to income ratio) which will not allow you to purchase a home you cannot afford. So you see your theory is a bit skewed, americans are not buying homes above their income, they're putting their lifestyles priority to their homes which is living above their means, not buying homes above their means.

    Your mortgage payment is more important than shopping or big screen tv's etc. etc. But none of this mortgage mess would be possible without the greed of the banks. it had nothing to do with clinton, the banks greed snd the gov. corruption is why this country is in the mess it's in.
     
  17. Sweeney

    Sweeney Guest

    There is another crisis coming and like a bunch of blind victims you'd rather blame what you know rather than learn the system. Read my previous post and you'll see this is actually the eye of the coming storm.
     
  18. QueenZen

    QueenZen Always Present
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    *grumbles then smacks Black Rain*

    HE wanted the nest not me. Our first home was an apartment, then a rental duplex. BUT HE wanted tool sheds and 4 stall garage for......MORE TOOLS. .. and MORE TOOLS !! HE not I was the one wanting to *nest* in some metal chainsaws saws drills and them other male tools junk galore so an apartment just was NOT big enough for his ............construction destruction tool addictions and motorcycle and boat and guns rifles fishing poles and so forth........SO WATCH IT MISTA..........sometimes it is the MALE of the human species that wants the nest for his male stuffs and male hunting fishing tools etc. CRAP ! LOL :)

    WE were almost kicked out of our first apartment cuz he tried to hide his *our* motorcycle INDOORS...gas drained out IN our apartment instead of the complex's carports.

    AND NOW he owns even MORE crap ! :)
     
  19. QueenZen

    QueenZen Always Present
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    I suppose ye are correct sire Cheapy.

    GREED of banks realators the govt. the feds etc. all lend to this mess in general loaning out mortgage moneys to them whom can not afford it. Heck back in the day hubby and I were LUCKY to even get a loan as newlieweds for a motorcycle, then car, then.............a very very old house on 11 acres in Wisconsin. . back in the day as *just* middle class newlieweds we did not see banks LOAN out loans of any type if they felt ya could not afford it nor they afford to risk giving us a loan back then...and they were tight TO loan too.

    But the entirety of mess of our nation greed coupled with dishonesty clear up to the top of many a ceo bank and govt and fed reserve ...............damn mess. May sound foolish but there always was a reason for the simple commandmant of thou shall not lie ...nor steal CEOs banks etc. govt. too, all they are teaching the nation of all ages teaching sadly in unison is.........mess over everyone, be greedy be dishonest steal from the poor and everyone else, for their own golden parachutes ! :(
     
  20. Shh!

    Shh! Lore Master
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    It had everything to do with Clinton and the Congress. Greed has been around since the beginning of time and is, in part, what drove this country to succeed. Government corruption, not to mention complete ignorance of what drives a "free market" economy, is the ingredient that has been added to the mix. The subprime mess is exactly as it is portrayed: a failure of a "feel good" government with the lack of understanding necessary to run an economy.
     
  21. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    No you can't. Architects only design what they are commissioned to designed. Very few are actual builders. Builders and private individuals are our clients. Are you suggesting when a client walks in to the office and asks for a design of a 5k square foot home with a 1 million dollar budget, that we should just turn them away?

    If we don't get paid...the plans don't leave our office. Try again to lump the blame on someone else...la
     
  22. QueenZen

    QueenZen Always Present
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    Are you a rl architect ? :)

    Agreed.........I guess I just remember the days way back when...even my parents were new home owners there just were not as many (mansions) designed and more smaller middle sized homes ..not that there were NOT gorgeous mansions......never in our *hood* though ! :)

    I grew up in a neighborhood of melting pot america...everyone seemed to own homes close to same sizes but those were all well built for the 1950s era post ww2. :)

    Some of the huge homes utterly gorgeous.. I see now cropping up all over even before there are buyers to buy em.. are like...................well glad someone *can afford em* .....it is not us ! :)
     
  23. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    Yes, I am an architect irl. Builders used to walk in all the time with ideas for their mega sized home subdivisions. I have worked on a number of subs in Michigan. Until I got out of the residential side of the buz, the smallest homes I saw getting built in SE Michigan were 3,500 places. Most were selling for 400k or more. Many of those subs are failing now due to the economy.

    Thank the lenders and the legislators for that. Sure people were dumb for over reaching on homes, but at the same time, the lenders knew better. They knew they would be selling off those mortages as quickly as they could, so they didn't have to worry about when the people started defaulting on the loans...la
     
  24. Ole Cheapy

    Ole Cheapy Guest

    You're right on point with that one. They usually sell them off just days after they close.