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For those who even care....

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Nexus, Jun 27, 2010.

  1. Nexus

    Nexus Site Support
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    [YOUTUBE]_TDJjL6nGhI[/YOUTUBE]​

    Little bit of video I recorded tonight. Shows exactly how absurd UO PvP had become. In this you'll see folks gate hugging, people attempting to gank, all kinds of things. Doesn't matter that it's Chessy things are the same across shards. Figured this would be a good way to not only bring up discussion, but to actually show some examples of how far we've actually fallen on some fronts.
     
  2. Zalan

    Zalan Babbling Loonie
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    I can`t say anything about PvP. +1 for style on the music.
     
  3. Cear Dallben Dragon

    Cear Dallben Dragon Babbling Loonie
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    you should also note that people fight at yew gate because it is absurd. and because there is a gate there they can hug. even if there was not a gate there, i cant go more than two seconds before the criminal i attacked runs into a house. yew gate has nothing to do with pvp. its more like a ******** FFA. there are plenty of videos out there of faction and champ battles that represent UP pvp much better.
     
  4. Nexus

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    Other than Raids at spawns (which on many shards is mismatched in numbers anyways) and Factions on a very few shards, this is PvP, this and as you mentioned House hiding.

    Most shards Factions is nothing but a source for cheap arties, most shards there are one or two zerg, vs a handful of small bands of spawner. That Video is most accurate of the PvP environment you'll find on the majority of shards.
     
  5. Nexus

    Nexus Site Support
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    Wanted something with a bit of edge edge to part of it, yet silly to point out the absurdity of Gate Fighting......

    That just seemed to fit.
     
  6. Yalp

    Yalp Guest

    Love the music.

    But really.. using in game mechanics legally? I can't stand with ya on the complaints.
     
  7. Nexus

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    Oh my point of view isn't use of game mechanics... it's the absurdity of the notion that PvP equates to a Risk vs Reward status justifying everything one does in Fel. This is evidence that the majority of PvPers are as carebear as the Trammies they love to ridicule.
     
  8. The House of Mowbray

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    One word - booooring! Nice touch with the music though :)

    The honour amongst players (especially in PvP) left this game a long time ago!

    In my opinion, the best source of PvP combat at the moment is RP Guilds. They set fair rules and some of them even just use GM equipment! Which kind of reminds me of the old days :)

    It's rare to be pwned by a L33T D00d with his speedhacking, equipment dropping, lame a$$ E*** UO scripts in the RP Guild Wars.......

    Give it a try on a Shard near you :thumbup1:
     
  9. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    Nice music :D From FF7's Chocobo racing!

    As to the actual issue with guard zone hugging and fighting from houses, the mechanics have always been there and folks have been doing it since 97.

    Since not many ventures the lands in Fel anymore, folks looking for PvP action tend not to venture out either and just stick to places that there's guaranteed action, like the moongates and during events in Fel.



    My view is that what's needed are incentives for folks to move out of GZs and houses. Some initial ideas:

    Carrot method - Maybe if victor have not stepped into GZ/houses for at least 5 mins, whenever he kills someone, there's a chance that he/she gets a prize, say a cursed voucher to claim a random mini arty. Voucher has to be turned in to an NPC to claim the arty. Won't know what you get until you turn in the voucher. It can be traded and sold like powerscrolls.

    Also, when the victor gets the voucher, he also get the "highlander quickening" effect similar to when you use a powerscroll. That way others that are nearby will know that he has gotten something and will have an incentive to get him.

    I opt for it to give out a voucher instead of the artie to give it more resale value. Since it potentially can turn into a nice artie. Making it cursed him as will prevent the person from insuring it. Coupled with marking him as a voucher winner will make him an attractive target. Or make him sigil purple.



    Stick method - Victor don't get any insurance money if he/she has stepped into a GZ or a house in the last 5 mins.



    Workable? If 5 mins is too harsh, maybe 2 mins? If mini artie chance isn't attractive enough, how about using the blackrock traders and their list? Peerless regs, BOD hammers, mini-arties. Just throwing ideas out.
     
  10. LordDrago

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    Mechanics would need to be put into place to ensure this does not become a method of "farming". 2 people, or 1 persone with 2 accounts) finds a deserted section of fel, and keep killing and rez killing each other (or just one). Soon, they have hundreds of these vouchers.
     
  11. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    Good point! Haven't thought it out fully yet, maybe limit it to having only 1 voucher at any one time and also do it like the faction points system where you don't get any points for killing the same few chars over an over again.
     
  12. Violence

    Violence Lore Keeper
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    Wait a second, you actually think Yew Gate FFA random-fest is a prime example of PVP?...

    ...
    .....

    rolleyes:

    It's a good place to "start", to compare templates, to improve your reflexes maybe.. And that's all it would have been, if it wasn't merely the best spot to check out the latest speed hack, script, game mechanics abuse or FOTM templates. Nothing at Yew Gate will currently help you determine anything else, it's just a good laugh.

    True PVP? Try Champ hunts while being in a Faction or something.
     
  13. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    Just had to say i love this and its very true. Many of the rp guilds on Atlantic have a "pvp" night with training and combat scenarios. Theres also tournaments and pvp incorporated into rp storylines. I honestly dont pvp at yew gate at all anymore, for the reasons that were in the video lol. It was fun for a while but gets boring. I still "regular" pvp when doing champ spawns, and used to when i defended sigils about 2 years ago, but for me i enjoy the pvp in rp guild settings the most, for the reasons quoted above.
     
  14. Orgional Farimir

    Orgional Farimir Lore Keeper
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    2 things to fix UO PVP. NO INSURANCE and NO LRC suites. Make dying auctually mean something. It is really sad when a mage who dies (and yes that is the only char I play) can rez up and get back in battle in 5 seconds. At least when a dexer dies they have to get some more bandages (oh no i better not say anything because now they might come out with a lower bandages suit).
     
  15. Kaleb

    Kaleb Lore Master
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    I like the video, but all it shows is trailer park PvP, you have to get away from the gate for real PvP, Start a Oaks, Or despise, or harrower. Then you will see pvp in its greatest form in the AoS model.
     
  16. T-Hunt

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    Simple remove the moongate from there...and add it some place you cant put any house ..
     
  17. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    Anti-cheat measures will stop all of that, don't you worry. Now people can no longer script gatehugging or script househugging or script gank.
     
  18. Alvinho

    Alvinho Great Lakes Forever!
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    love the song where can i get a copy of it?
     
  19. Splup

    Splup Guest

    Gate hugging, house hiding and ganking... Yew gate fighting has been all that since people have been fighting at Yew gate, nothing to do with "Nowdays PvP situation".

    If you want something else you need to go make champ spawn or something. Make a champ and before the champ pops up tell in general chat. If you do despice you don't even have use many mins to get lvl 3 or 4 and the raiders coming. Just remember to tell in General chat that coons up soon...
     
  20. Splup

    Splup Guest

    Yes, no insurance is working great for Siege too. The most populated PvP action compared to any shard...

    Or was it dead and if you see someone it's a tamer or stealther or both?
     
  21. Theo_GL

    Theo_GL Grand Poobah
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    Honestly - someone will have to explain to me what the attraction is of gate fighting at Yew gate.

    I mean - what do you expect here? Role playing civil wars?

    Its just a bunch of people standing around running in/out of houses and guardzones.

    I fail to see any purpose in this at all. Seems like a colossal waste of time. I'd rather go mining.
     
  22. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    That's what Yew gate fighting has always been. You want a fight, you go to Yew and you get one, and you don't have to fight someone off while being targetted by a bunch of angry rats. I agree that spawn pvp is the only "real" pvp in UO, but sometimes you don't want the hassle of dealing with all the spawn that comes with the pvp at a champ spawn, and sometimes you just want to fight without the sting of losing a 120 magery scroll.

    You don't want to get guard whacked? Easy - just don't attack a blue in a guard zone. You want to avoid ganks? Use a house or the guard zone to help even things out. It doesn't make you less worthy, it just makes you smarter, and allows you to keep having fun when your only option otherwise would be to leave.

    Yew gate is like the old server down wars. You just come and fight, and there isn't much in the way of consequences unless you are in factions. Ok being looted can suck if you are stupid enough to carry a ton of crap like some are. However the ones that carry a ton of crap can generally afford to lose it.

    It can be incredibly addictive, it can be ridiculous, it can be annoying, and it can be fun. But like it or loath it, it is part of UO, and has been for a very long time.
     
  23. Nexus

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    Can't remember exactly where I found it... but to get it closer in length to the video I had to loop a few portions of it, so you won't find it anywhere exactly like that.
     
  24. Zosimus

    Zosimus Grand Inquisitor
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    I totally agree with the OP! UO PvP is nothing now what it used to be. Spawning sucks because you have spawn and players fighting each other plus trying to kill a champ on top of it. Yew gate is horrible imo. Ya flag somebody they run to the gate. You get guard wacked. If you step outside of yew gate its a gank fest. PvP in UO has no real purpose. Factions didnt fix anything but made it worse.

    Thats why until they fix some of UO PvP I will only RvR in warhammer online and not PvP in UO. I only PvM atm in UO gathering resources. At least in warhammer I have a reason to RvR to defend or take keeps and BO's. Dont want to do that then I can just que for a scenario. I get quite a bit of RvR with a million times less headaches then I do with UO PvP.
     
  25. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    i wanted to see speed hackers - music was Great!
     
  26. Nexus

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    I'm sure sooner or later I'll catch a few :p
     
  27. Evlar

    Evlar Guest

    Might have been better with the Benny Hill chase music...

    :D
     
  28. Beleg Megil

    Beleg Megil Guest

    Like or hate UO PvP and Yew gate and all that, I will say I find the PvPers at Yew gate usefull for me to test equipment and fight tactics on.

    It would be nice if they had a code that if you initiated a fight, you could not run from the fight into a house, though. Kinda like the no recall/no moongate rule. There are probably holes in my idea, but I just woke up. *shrugs*
     
  29. Madrid

    Madrid Slightly Crazed
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    PvP was best during Pre UO:R. Pre-casting Halberd wielding tank mages. There was so much skill involved and it's a shame for those who like to PvP never got to experience that time. You could not have come up with a better system.

    Unfortunataly you had people whine and cry about the inequality of templates and the Dev's caved in and started making changes. More and more changes until it was nowhere near what it was.

    I refuse to PvP because of the BS special moves and the dismount. The dismount is one of the most absolutely ridiculous things ever introduced into PvP.

    This is why their is till clamor for a classic shard and why many freeshards do so well because of the old PvP system where tank mages ruled.

    It's an absolute shame how great PvP once was and what it has become today.
     
  30. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    There's actually a lot of fighting going on in that video outside of the guardzone, so might not be the BEST example to highlight the absurd nature of Yew Gate fighting. However, since it also ends with the guy who doesn't have healer help killing one of the people in the guard zone, and also, since the guy who doesn't have healing help is BLUE, it also is sort of a one sided commentary on Yew Gate imo.

    Generally, the complaint by reds (stupid reds, that is; move the fight!) is that blues "hug the gate," while the complaint by blues is if they leave the guardzone for too long then they will get para ganked/fielded by the group of reds. My best guess is that Yew Gate is an attempt to force duels in a game where duels are never a natural occurrence; it's a group PvP game.

    One thing this video does absolutely highlight is how EVERYONE now depends on Mysticism, both the attacker and the attackees, and how Cleansing Winds, while very, very useful, is still not overpowered enough to save the bluebie who dies at the end.
     
  31. Nexus

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    Hardly, it is directed towards showing how Yew Gate fighting often works and how lame it is. You see people running into the GZ shouting Guards because they were loosing, you see folks run off and come right back hoping to draw a red who flags... it's a good example of how lame PvP in UO has gotten.

    And all to often that is exactly what happens to Blues who venture out. I spend more time at the gate than most folks know observing, I spend time at spawns observing I've seen how PvP goes all the way around. Every "Complaint" given has some validity, I'm not Anti-Red, or Anti-Blue, I call it as I see it.

    Mysticism is a great system, it's well rounded for all types of use. Though I will say the RC is a bit over powered, it's like summoning an endless supply of Dragons (Regular not Greater).
     
  32. RawHeadRex

    RawHeadRex Slightly Crazed
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    loved it.
    dismounting, imho a result of trying to even-out the playing field, if you catch my meaning.
     
  33. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    The main fight captured by the video, which remains inside the GZ, is between only blues. To me, that's the center focus of the video.

    I agree, except unlike a dragon a RC can armor ignore, hehe. Mythic/EA should improve the quality of a mage's regular dispel spell. Using mass dispel for the 100% is so annoying, even in PvM situations, where a mass is the only way to get rid of your EVs at the expense of your guildies' EVs as well.
     
  34. HD2300

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    Arenas

    Arenas

    Arenas

    Arenas

    Many games have Arenas. Also have "equal gear" duel option.

    New PvP supershards, 1 in each of eastcoast westcoast pacific. Allow naked transfers in and out.

    To make it fair have PvM supershards too.
     
  35. Renegade I

    Renegade I Guest

    I can agree with u the speedhacking and the cheat engine has prety much killed pvp i hardley even bother chasting down the hackers anymroe
     
  36. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    Gzones can be lame but its part of the game.
    Takes it away and you will lose even more newbs that tries to PvP with assistance from guards.
    I just stand farther away from gzones when I do gate pvp. I still get gwacked from time to time but thats no big deal.

    Someone mentioned LRC suit and I kinda agree. But I think it will be easier if there's a short statloss for everyone. 20 min for factionsm 3 to 5 minutes for everyone else. Especially when the none faction newbs are zergging it up and I can single them out and kill one of them real fast which will simply get rezzed instantly when they dedicate 5 people attacking me and 3 rezzers and crosshealers against me and myself. Its a battle where I am ****ting all over them yet I just cannot win. :(
     
  37. Stupid Miner

    Stupid Miner Guest

    Er... doesn't this mean fighting at Yew Gate is the same it has been...
    Forever?
     
  38. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    QFT lol

    It's funny how we jumped from Bucs to Yew Gate. No-guardzone ganks at Bucs held our attention for years before Yew Gate became "the" place, yet people kept coming to Bucs anyway. I mean, not to say things haven't changed, the moongates themselves have gone through many ... periods.
     
  39. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    A good place to start will be to goggle for chocobo racing music
     
  40. Beleg Megil

    Beleg Megil Guest

    Um...In your opinion. Mine is, PvP is best now. More template choices, more skills, more options. Dozens of ways to kill someone, dozens of ways to defeat their strategy.

    I was there. It wasn't so great. And a hally tank mage...the way the system was designed, for a while you HAD to play that template or you would lose. And what skill is involved in that? Cast the same 3 spells, arm at the right time, drink your heal/refresh as needed.

    The templates were ridiculously unbalanced. The majority of the players knew this and asked for change. The Devs listened. This is a good thing.

    Why? Pretty much throughout the history of the real world, wherever there was cavalry, there were soldiers specially trained and weapons specially made to knock the horsemen off their horses. Ever see a movie or read a book? The climax of many fight scenes IS a special move. Why would you not want to do that? But if dismounting someone in battle is what really irks you most, you'll probably have to direct your anger toward the Central Asian civilizations that tried to resist the Mongol invaders back in the early 13th century. Mongols used horses, you see, and...oh nevermind.

    You are bitter because you found a way YOU liked to play, and the changes allowed people who liked to have more than one option for a PvP template be able to kick your hally tank mage's butt some of the time.

    The game evolved by player demand, and you either couldn't or refused. The PvP system is loads better than it was as long as people have the brain for it. Thought is required. Its people that suck, not the game.
     
  41. UO currently provides 3 places to PvP:

    1. Moongates.
    2. Champion Spawns.
    3. Personal Houses.

    And by PvP...I mean Gank Squad vs. Gank Squad...hardly anybody solos anymore.
     
  42. How exactly does an arena fit in the UO PvP mode? UO PvP has always been FFA.

    If Arena PvP is all anybody wants why don't we abolish felucca and put them in Trammel? Same thing. I think it's far more important that they work on balancing the mechanics of PvP rather than implementing something so trammies can fight safely without risk (and you people have insurance!!!).

    Or...they could just give us a Publish 15-based classic shard. That would work better.
     
  43. Splup

    Splup Guest

    It's MMORPG afterall rolleyes:
     
  44. It was an MMORPG back then, too.
     
  45. Pawain

    Pawain Crazed Zealot
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    Looks the same as it has always been. Whether it was a guy killing miners or PvMers.

    The video looks like the test center PvP. I love going there with my son during the Halloween testing. At least we would have dismounted the guy. I have never been able to actually kill anyone except with potions thrown into people that run into their house.

    I also like the music!
     
  46. chuckoatl

    chuckoatl Guest

    yes it was, and I got ganked back then too........ whats your point?
     
  47. Beleg Megil

    Beleg Megil Guest

    People always wiped their butts with something besides toilet paper before toilet paper was invented. Just because something has "always been" a certain way doesn't mean it can't evolve.

    An arena would be perfect for the FELUCCA crowd that whines on Chat "I GOT GANKED! U CAN'T BEET ME 1v1!!! OMG CSISVU!" or the folks that claim they could win if it was only GM equipment or whatever. I'd love to see an arena so the whiners can have their bluff called. In fact, I'd love it if the penalty for whining in Chat then refusing an Arena duel was 24 hours of not being allowed to talk in Chat. that has nothing to do with the Trammies.

    No one says take away the FFA aspect and replace it with Arenas. Both can exist. :)
     
  48. Zosimus

    Zosimus Grand Inquisitor
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    If they could impliment the scenarios in warhammer online which is not just about pvp but you have to take over BO or artifacts and carry ect ect then that could be a plus with UO pvp.

    Plus you get random players grps. Good way to bring back order and chaos. Order vs Chaos scenarios.
     
  49. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    I never played warhammer, but uo faction towns and sigil stealing / holding would seem to be the uo version of this.
     
  50. Orgional Farimir

    Orgional Farimir Lore Keeper
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    I played warhammer, and the only reason I still don't is because my comp isn't good enough to run it as my char advances.

    UO Factions is no where close to what Warhammer has. Inorder for a side to win not only do they have to RvR, but they also have to do quests and kill monsters and capture battle objectives, so even if someone does not like RvR they can still help their side win the area.

    With that being said the biggest advantage UO has over warhammer is the fact that there is no "leveling" but instead you can make your character how ever you want and then change him if you get bored or if something better comes along.