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For those who follow MMOGCHART..

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Arcus, Apr 9, 2008.

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  1. Arcus

    Arcus Grand Poobah
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    A new chart was added yesterday.

    Remember when Jeremy came in an hinted at the last increase being accurate? I'm curious if she will chime in now.

    To me,given the fact that she acknowledged the increase as valid, I can also draw the same about the newly published decrease. Looks like 75k and headed down.
     
  2. Atleast we are not the lowest..Yet
     
  3. <blockquote><hr>

    A new chart was added yesterday.

    Remember when Jeremy came in an hinted at the last increase being accurate? I'm curious if she will chime in now.

    To me,given the fact that she acknowledged the increase as valid, I can also draw the same about the newly published decrease. Looks like 75k and headed down.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    If I knew how to put up a website, I could put up a website saying anything.

    *shrugs*

    Why people keep linking to this thing I really don't know.

    Someone on UO Forums was citing a figure of 35,000 subscriptions for UO. Maybe he got that from some other chart.

    -Galen's player
     
  4. This site has been pretty accurate , if a Company rep tells you differently ,there hiding something [​IMG]
     
  5. <blockquote><hr>

    This site has been pretty accurate , if a Company rep tells you differently ,there hiding something [​IMG]

    [/ QUOTE ]

    It's the same thing with the site I'd put up!!!

    Oh, also, I'm gonna have news, and my site can be believed above 60 Minutes.

    Wicked cool, eh?

    -Galen's player
     
  6. Arcus

    Arcus Grand Poobah
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    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    A new chart was added yesterday.

    Remember when Jeremy came in an hinted at the last increase being accurate? I'm curious if she will chime in now.

    To me,given the fact that she acknowledged the increase as valid, I can also draw the same about the newly published decrease. Looks like 75k and headed down.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    If I knew how to put up a website, I could put up a website saying anything.

    *shrugs*

    Why people keep linking to this thing I really don't know.

    Someone on UO Forums was citing a figure of 35,000 subscriptions for UO. Maybe he got that from some other chart.

    -Galen's player

    [/ QUOTE ]


    I was in your shoes , trust me. Problem is that an EA rep , Jeremy , confirmed the numbers to some degree.
     
  7. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Interesting... We are even with Tabula Rasa, Garriot's new toy, and we are higher than DAoC, EA's other MMO.

    EQ2 only just surpassed EQ at the beginning of 2007? Wierd.

    Most MMOs on that list have had a downward trend lately. A couple of those look fishy too. The fact that FFXI has been at the exact same level (500,000) since the beginning of 2006. EVE has not had ANY noticable decline('could' happen if closed accounts are counted to be taken away).

    ummm, I'm going to have to look up "Dofus", I've never heard of that one before.

    The more MMOs that come onto the market, the more likely to reduce the existing MMOs subscrition levels. A recession can also have that effect.

    I don't see UO receiving much of an increase in subscriptions. For people that have played other MMOs chances are that the 2D client is extremely different from any other interface they've ever experienced(graphically &amp; UI). For that market, KR has the best shot at bringing them in, if it is continued to be updated. Without 'shelf presence' UO looses out on those that pick up games at brick-&amp;-morter stores. It's going to be interesting to see what happans if/when DF hits...
     
  8. Hawthorne

    Hawthorne Guest

    In reference to the EVE online number, if you load up the client it tells you how many people are in game, so it gives you a basic idea of it the game is growing / declining - that's probably why there are so many points on the EVE line on the chart.

    I do wish more games would follow suit and show how many players were playing, I'd love to know in particular to UO. But I get the feeling devs don't want players to see how few are playing, "panic", and move to another game.
     
  9. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    If I knew how to put up a website, I could put up a website saying anything.

    *shrugs*

    [/ QUOTE ]
    The early numbers were from published announcements by the games themselves. Then when they stopped doing that, he got insider information because of the reputation he built with the chart. But in the last couple years it is obvious that he is either having trouble tracking so many MMOs or his sources are drying up.

    In any event, if he didn't have accurate information it wouldn't have been updated for UO. I think this is the first time in the last 2 UO's numbers have been updated.
     
  10. So on a related topic what is the magic number that EA will pull the plug? 50k?
     
  11. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    So on a related topic what is the magic number that EA will pull the plug? 50k?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Well considering that DAoC looks like it's floating around 45k the 'pull the plug' threshold must be lower than that!
     
  12. uk_crafter

    uk_crafter Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    So on a related topic what is the magic number that EA will pull the plug? 50k?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    They'll pull the plug when the game stops making a profit.
     
  13. Guest

    Guest Guest

    EA doesn't release subscriber numbers. I have no idea where these are coming from, but don't forget your grains of salt.
     
  14. Sir_Bolo

    Sir_Bolo Sage
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

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    SirBruce gave an accuracy rating of A to UO data in the analysis page - this supposedly means that he got the number from some anonymous source at EA.

    I find this part of the analysis hard to believe, though:
    <blockquote><hr>

    "As of December 2007, UO had about 75,000 subscribers worldwide, with about 50,000 of those in Japan."

    [/ QUOTE ]

    If there are so many more players in Japan, the Japanese servers must be hugely overcrowded compared to US servers. Why doesn't EA start shipping empty US servers to Tokyo then?
     
  15. <blockquote><hr>

    EA doesn't release subscriber numbers. I have no idea where these are coming from, but don't forget your grains of salt.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    If the numbers are better then why wouldn't EA publish them to dispute this? EA's silence on this just adds power to the published chart.
     
  16. Arcus

    Arcus Grand Poobah
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    <blockquote><hr>

    EA doesn't release subscriber numbers. I have no idea where these are coming from, but don't forget your grains of salt.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I think you owe a little more than that. Last time you gave a "wink and a nod" confirmation of these numbers when they were up. Now when they are down you question the credibility? You want me to find that post?

    Either you were purposely misleading us last time , or you are disputing the numbers to cover up what they show.

    Weak sauce.
     
  17. 'Weak sauce. "

    When the meat is good, you don't want a strong sauce, or you overpower the meat itself. Just a touch of flavor to enhance the meat is all that's needed or you ruin the meal. [​IMG]
     
  18. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    A new chart was added yesterday.

    Remember when Jeremy came in an hinted at the last increase being accurate? I'm curious if she will chime in now.

    To me,given the fact that she acknowledged the increase as valid, I can also draw the same about the newly published decrease. Looks like 75k and headed down.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    So?

    I fail to understand why people are interested in these numbers.

    So.
    Numbers up
    "Wow UO is going to return to its glory days"

    Numbers down
    "Wow UO is headed to the grave"


    Maybe we should realize numbers go up and down and UO will continue to move along.

    Maybe someone can enlighten me on the importance of these numbers and how the effect you and me. Or more so my game play. Or our enjoyment of the daily game playing.
     
  19. utilitron

    utilitron Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    A new chart was added yesterday.

    Remember when Jeremy came in an hinted at the last increase being accurate? I'm curious if she will chime in now.

    To me,given the fact that she acknowledged the increase as valid, I can also draw the same about the newly published decrease. Looks like 75k and headed down.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    That is close to my calculations... (paraphrased below)
    <blockquote><hr>


    Mins. Played this Month: 612734440 as of 3/18/08 @ 4:18pm CST
    612734440/60 = ~10212240 Minutes / 60 = ~170204 Days.

    Now, assuming this information is correct, we can attempt to put a number on how many players might play UO, based on average play times.

    If ALL players played 4/7 : ~56,730 players ((170204/18)/6)

    If ALL players played 4/5 : ~72,942 players ((170204/14)/6)

    If ALL players played 4/3 : ~102,120 players ((170204/10)/6)

    Given the numbers, and assuming they are true, I think it would be safe to say there are probably ~72,942 to 102,120 active players in UO.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    You can see the ticker yourself here

    With a little immagination, and alot of math, you can even figure out how many players are online at any given time.
     
  20. Guest

    Guest Guest

    ummmm, iodized, sea or kosher?

    75% of statistics are made up 90% of the time to fool 50% of the viewing public .. I think. Mebbe not. &lt;shrug&gt;
     
  21. Guest

    Guest Guest

    so lets say 50,000 subscribers.

    50 x $10 (10 for an average 30 days with different payment options)
    500k a month

    6 million a year

    6 million a year pays for the game and support and gives you some extra money.

    bottom line is UO makes money.

    Right?

    Sure it could make more but its making money. Whats the fascination with numbers? I could see if we got a discount on number of subscribers. Then Id be on the numbers. But we dont get anuthing.
     
  22. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    A new chart was added yesterday.

    Remember when Jeremy came in an hinted at the last increase being accurate? I'm curious if she will chime in now.

    To me,given the fact that she acknowledged the increase as valid, I can also draw the same about the newly published decrease. Looks like 75k and headed down.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    That is close to my calculations... (paraphrased below)
    <blockquote><hr>


    Mins. Played this Month: 612734440 as of 3/18/08 @ 4:18pm CST
    612734440/60 = ~10212240 Minutes / 60 = ~170204 Days.

    Now, assuming this information is correct, we can attempt to put a number on how many players might play UO, based on average play times.

    If ALL players played 4/7 : ~56,730 players ((170204/18)/6)

    If ALL players played 4/5 : ~72,942 players ((170204/14)/6)

    If ALL players played 4/3 : ~102,120 players ((170204/10)/6)

    Given the numbers, and assuming they are true, I think it would be safe to say there are probably ~72,942 to 102,120 active players in UO.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    You can see the ticker yourself here

    With a little immagination, and alot of math, you can even figure out how many players are online at any given time.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Online, yes. Playing, yes. Actual subscriptions, no. You have to remember, there are also plenty of people who pay for accounts that may not have played within each monthly time period, for whatever reason (moving, armed services, current disinterest, apathy, so on). Could easily add another 20-30k to the number for all you know.

    The inherent problem with basing any calculations solely on activity is that it is usually impossible to properly quantify the additional inactivity.
     
  23. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Calcs you cite may be incorrect.

    Start with 612734440 as minutes. Divide by 60 for hours then divide that by 24 for days. If I'm correct, that would be (integer math so fractions are dropped):
    Hours = 612734440/60 = 10212240
    Days = 10212240/24 = 425510
    Years = 425510/365.25 = 1164

    Or is my brain so fuzzy from RL work that I missed something?
     
  24. AdamD

    AdamD Guest

    The last time I spoke with someone about those numbers, who was working on UO at the time, he refused to confirm the figure suggest, but, he did say "He has a good source", so I can only assume the chart is accurate.
     
  25. utilitron

    utilitron Guest

    You know what... looking at that I realise I did my math WRONG!

    The numbers should have been higher...

    <blockquote><hr>


    Mins. Played this Month: 612734440 as of 3/18/08 @ 4:18pm CST
    612734440/60 Minutes = ~10212240 Hours / 24 = ~425510 Days.

    T'Amon-from work was right... I must have been tired cuz i wrote down the equasion wrong...
    We are taking the Total "Playable" days (7, 5, 3)per week and compairing to the amount of days that have already passed (18)... that gives us : 18, ~14, ~10.

    So we Devide the total accumulated days, by the playable...
    (425510/18) = ~23639
    (425510/14) = ~30393
    (425510/10) = 42551

    This number represents how many cumulative full days are being played per each actual day. Here is where I messed up... Times that number by 24 to get the total hours played per day.

    23639 * 24 = 567336
    30393 * 24 = 729432
    42551 * 24 = 1021224

    Now we should devide that by 4 to get how many players playing 4 hours would generate those minutes in given time...

    567336 / 4 = ~141834
    729432 / 4 = ~182358
    1021224 / 4 = ~255306

    _____________________________________________________

    So with the right equasion lets say...

    If all players play 3 days a week, lets fing the totals for averages of 4, 6, and 8 hours a day...
    1021224 / 4 = ~255306 Players
    1021224 / 6 = ~170204 Players
    1021224 / 8 = ~127653 Players

    and we'll do the same for 5 days a week.

    729432 / 4 = ~182358 Players
    729432 / 6 = ~121572 Players
    729432 / 8 = ~91179 Players



    [/ QUOTE ]

    That Might give a beter picture for people...
     
  26. Belmarduk

    Belmarduk Guest

    <blockquote><hr>


    1. EVE has not had ANY noticable decline('could' happen if closed accounts are counted to be taken away).

    2. I don't see UO receiving much of an increase in subscriptions. For people that have played other MMOs chances are that the 2D client is extremely different from any other interface they've ever experienced(graphically &amp; UI). For that market, KR has the best shot at bringing them in, if it is continued to be updated. Without 'shelf presence' UO looses out on those that pick up games at brick-&amp;-morter stores. It's going to be interesting to see what happans if/when DF hits...

    [/ QUOTE ]

    1. Eve definatley is getting bigger - I started beginning of 2006 and there were about 15k people online max. Now we have about 40k+....
    Why?
    CCP is COMMITTED to the game
    EA? Perhaps the few devs we still have but NOT EA itself...
    Eve has and has allways had future plans "Ambulation is in the pipe now"
    UO... UOSA ???... KR development is a total joke - Its either been stopped or the devs are REALLY spread so thin than its impossible to have events AND client development...
    This is not against Jeremy or the UO devs- but it looks very bad atm - All prioritys are obviously going towards Warhammer....
    If this goes on like this it would be BEST to reactivate old 3D - Non-2D users - and HELL there are not SO few of them... have no REALLY playable client...
    All Ex-3D users of my guild have quit or are inactive (except me..)
    Obviously UO has so high subscription numbers that a few thousand overall dont matter...

    <font color="red"> REACTIVATE old 3D or work on that joke of a client called KR (which could be a GOOD client....) or HELL let us use other clients we are not allowed to mention (they are in a better state and look MUCH better than KR what I have heard and seen.... </font>
     
  27. utilitron

    utilitron Guest

    Eveen better, lets look to see the comparable values of this month to last...

    Mins. Played last Month: 612734440 as of 3/18/08 @ 4:18pm CST
    Mins. Played this Month: 612722894 as of 4/09/08 @ 1:35pm CST
     
  28. Belmarduk

    Belmarduk Guest

    Just as example..... Ambulation
    And I found this passage VERY interesting........:

    How do you think people have found the Trinity upgrade? Any complaints?
    Well on a new system it performs very well. It does need more memory, so older systems will suffer. <font color="red"> But we’re supporting systems from 2003, but we have to keep our eyes on horizon, we have to move on. More and more people will enjoy the benefits as they slowly upgrade, even if they do so incrementally. </font>
    Do you feel that there needs to be a greater degree of standardisation in PC hardware?
    Well it’s hard not to envy the console developers who know precisely what they are developing for. Not knowing what the player is going to have can breed apathy with developers, they can say “well they just have to buy more memory”, which is really bad, obviously. That said, the organic, component-based process of PC evolution means that the systems can grow quickly and take advantage of technologies. If people want to do that, and to play games like Eve they’re probably just going to have to learn the difference between a megahertz and a megabyte. And gamers will do that.
    And this kind of victim of technology thing is something that you guys suffer more than most: the single galaxy Eve server is now ludicrously complex, isn’t it?

    Yes, the cluster is very big, very powerful. We’re exploring some super-computing possibilities for the future, and I believe we’re looking at having it classified as a super-computing cluster alongside some of the top systems in the world. I don’t know exact numbers, but we have those figures somewhere.
     
  29. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    With a little immagination, and alot of math, you can even figure out how many players are online at any given time.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Going off the assumption that the ticker is updated every second... a couple reads suggested that the mins played this month jumped by 251 each second. It takes 60 people to be playing at the same time to make the mins played this month to increase by 1. 251*60=15060. So approximately 15k people playing at about 2:45 pm EST...
     
  30. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    ummmm, iodized, sea or kosher?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Kosher is the only salt I cook with/have in my house. I haven't had much experience with sea salt. I really dislike the taste of iodized.
     
  31. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I've never played EVE so I couldn't guesstimate on that. It was just that 'most' of the other MMOs at some point had at least a small drop.

    I'm all for the Devs continued improving of KR. I personally wouldn't care to have 3D brought back in the state it was when it was chucked. I consider myself pretty open-minded, but 3D didn't offer me anything over 2D. I kept trying it over the years but it wasn't worth it. I used it when you needed it to access Ilsh, and I liked the idea of the zoom in feature. All outter item layers looked huge and balloonish.

    KR on the other hand offers me more than 2D. It has the zoom in of 3D and a zoom out. The map terrain looks alot more realistic and seemless. The macro system is alot more customizable and can severely cut down on repetative key strokes, without the need of 3rd party pgms. The included world map is loads better than the little radial 2D map(though the 2D map can be a little more precise).

    I use KR most of the time. I do, however, find myself using 2D during events due to the additional lag. KR works fine during normal hunting of Greater Dragons and everything 'easier'.
     
  32. dmodesto

    dmodesto Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    EA doesn't release subscriber numbers. I have no idea where these are coming from, but don't forget your grains of salt.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Here's the thing though, regardless if 10,000 or 100,000 people are playing this game, it will still make more then enough money a month to justify server expenses, and to maintain CURRENT development (at the low end), and FUTURE development (at the high end),.


    And realistically, UO seems to be about the same for the past few years anyway.


    As long as people like our friend Jeremy here are doing their job, and pushing our gaming forward with input from us, we'll be a-ok !
     
  33. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
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    Lots of people seem confused why people would (1) be interested in these numbers, (2) believe these numbers, (3) think that these numbers mean anything.

    Well, to put it succinctly, the number of subscribers becomes a direct catalyst to how much development money is spent on keeping UO alive.

    I believe I read somewhere that the Live Team currently consisted of an astounding 2 team members? Regardless of the number, it's a far cry from what it used to be. Keep in mind too that jobs posted recently have been for development on UO and DAoC -- and by "and," I mean "and co-deveoping for." UO's development is no longer a singular environment, and we're sharing resources with EA's red-headed stepchild. I guarantee that the Warhammer development team isn't spending time on either of the two games (unless there's an art team, but even they're probably focused largely on Warhammer).

    And if you think UO's future isn't in any jeopardy, consider the incomplete KR client for which the latest event was "optimized" for the 2D client. Now, clearly part of that is because of the extremely low adoption of the KR client (why in the world they tried to turn UO into WoW without also changing the perspective is beyond me... the 2D interface was fine, just needed some consistency and updates), but part of that is because they themselves see that the money spent on KR has left them with a development environment that's only going to be sketchy. It's a serious issue that the KR client took a back seat to 2D in this event, no matter how it's painted.

    Which leads me back to the numbers... the lower those numbers go, the less likely that major projects will make it through the pipeline. With the reduced development team that's present these days, even fewer bug fixes, features, and updates will occur. And frankly, now we're splitting that time between two EXTREMELY different clients, so they'll either choose (like they did for this event) to support only one client, or we'll see even less by the way of content, update, and fix.

    Oh, and Jeremy, most of us understand why EA doesn't share subscription numbers. Because even Blizzard wouldn't brag about a seriously dwindling subscriber base.
     
  34. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    1. Eve definatley is getting bigger - I started beginning of 2006 and there were about 15k people online max. Now we have about 40k+....
    Why?
    CCP is COMMITTED to the game

    [/ QUOTE ]
    EVE Online also follows the philosphy of early UO: provide protected zones (guard zones) but put all the really fun stuff outside where there is only player rule. EVE Online continues to grow while UO has done nothing but stopped growing since that was removed.

    Players want to compete, they want to own stuff, they want to win. The only reason UO didn't start floundering right after UO:R was because of Factions. But as soon as the developers stopped working on that, it showed in the subscription numbers. When are they going to realize that lack of attention to PVP is what is causing the biggest impact on players leaving?
     
  35. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
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    <blockquote><hr>

    Here's the thing though, regardless if 10,000 or 100,000 people are playing this game, it will still make more then enough money a month to justify server expenses, and to maintain CURRENT development (at the low end), and FUTURE development (at the high end),.

    [/ QUOTE ]You've got an interesting idea (misguided as it may be) about what the difference between 10k and 100k subscribers is. At 10k, you can be guaranteed that we'll have been compressed onto a much smaller subset of servers, and that all "current" development will have ceased. The game will be available for play (maybe), and there won't be a DevTeam. We MIGHT have a team devoted to bugs, but honestly, at 10k, I doubt they'd worry about that. We'll be on life support by that time.

    Future development? Yeah, at 100k, we'd probably continue to see future development. But it'll be slow and far between.

    Keep in mind that KR has, to this date, been a failure for EA as well. I know they won't share adoption rates, but it's no where near the level they'd hoped. Of course, they only have their own poor development decisions to blame for that.
     
  36. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
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    <blockquote><hr>

    When are they going to realize that lack of attention to PVP is what is causing the biggest impact on players leaving?

    [/ QUOTE ]Because that hasn't been true for years. PvP may have been a reason for several large portions of the player base leaving, but the primary reason for dwindling subscription numbers hasn't been primarily PvP based for many, many years now. In order for that to be true, there would have had to have been significant PvP improvements made since Factions that kept the hardcore PvPers holding on, but unless there are a lot of people who thought, "Well, I could wait four, five, six years for change," there aren't PvPers (and haven't been for some time) who are holding out for EA to make dramatic fixes to the system.

    And honestly, while EA made the worst possible decision they could when they created Trammel and Felucca (alienated existing player communities and created a dead facet in the process), it is EXTREMELY true that EA's subscription numbers GREW after UO:Renaissance, which indicates that the free-for-all, unmitigated PvP was, as EA stated at the time, a cause of declining subscription numbers.

    What caused EA's subscription numbers to fall after that has been a lack of serious client update (they waited TEN years to give it a graphical overhaul -- EverQuest's first major overhaul happened with its second or third expansion -- I don't remember which now), poor expansion decisions (which further split up the playerbase), things like the removal of event programs that kept roleplayers interested, and so forth. Surely PvP and Factions ARE in there somewhere, but the PvP subscriber base has (since UO's inception) been significantly less than its PvM subscriber base. It's just that in the old days, people didn't have much of a choice. Had EA gone the route of Blizzard with WoW, perhaps they'd have a stronger combination of the two playstyles... but they didn't. They took a knee-jerk reaction approach.

    But notice that UO's peak, according to the chart referenced in this thread, was the middle of 2003 -- LONG after the UO:R changes of 2000.
     
  37. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    UO has done nothing but stopped growing since that was removed

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Uh uh...no. Gotta love revisionist history.

    The Trammel/Fel split saw the account numbers shoot through the roof. People were leaving the game because of the frustration with the whole idea of "player policing" before Trammel. Once we got Trammel we had the "golden age" of UO.

    AOS was what caused the major downturn in accounts that got us to where we are now.
     
  38. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    I can only assume the chart is accurate.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Why?

    If EA doesn't release account information, probably for silly legal reasons, then the chart can not be accurate. The best it can be is an educated guess.

    Personally speaking...I don't see fewer people on LS. I have actually seen more of late, and lots of real "noobs". Not vets with a second account that happens to be "young"...but real honest to god noobs that are totally confused about what to do next.

    That's just one shard out of many, but it seems hard to believe it would be that different from the rest.
     
  39. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Well, to put it succinctly, the number of subscribers becomes a direct catalyst to how much development money is spent on keeping UO alive.


    [/ QUOTE ]
    A novel theory. In UO's peak it still didn't do any more development than it does now. How is that relevent again?
     
  40. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    A new chart was added yesterday.

    Remember when Jeremy came in an hinted at the last increase being accurate? I'm curious if she will chime in now.

    To me,given the fact that she acknowledged the increase as valid, I can also draw the same about the newly published decrease. Looks like 75k and headed down.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    If I knew how to put up a website, I could put up a website saying anything.

    *shrugs*

    Why people keep linking to this thing I really don't know.

    Someone on UO Forums was citing a figure of 35,000 subscriptions for UO. Maybe he got that from some other chart.

    -Galen's player

    [/ QUOTE ]You don't actually believe more than 75k play this game, do you?
     
  41. Draken-Korin

    Draken-Korin Guest

    I could'nt agree with you more Yew Ranger, although I very much enjoyed pre Trammel days the downward spiral of an "active" UO began with AOS.

    Watching a guild of over 50 real people, with many more trying to get in but we were rather strict, dwindle with players leaving the game right after AOS hit was sad indeed. Mind you these players did not just leave the guild, they STOPPED playing the game. It may have taken some a month, some a year, but over 50 sunk to around 10 - 15 max in less than one year after AOS.

    Funny how when AOS came about it was explained to the masses as something the players made a HUGE push for. My recollection of AOS was that it was the ONE thing UO seemed to come up with almost overnight and put into play pretty DAMN fast without talking about it FOREVER.

    Wonder why that happened....
     
  42. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    EA doesn't release subscriber numbers. I have no idea where these are coming from, but don't forget your grains of salt.

    [/ QUOTE ]You are the one that put the chart up when things seemed to be getting better. Now that it has decreased you want to back peddle. You messed up Jeremy.
     
  43. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

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    <blockquote><hr>

    A novel theory. In UO's peak it still didn't do any more development than it does now. How is that relevent again?

    [/ QUOTE ]That response is what I'd like to call "Grossly inaccurate."

    Quick, easy, succinct.

    Care to try again?
     
  44. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    I can only assume the chart is accurate.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Why?

    If EA doesn't release account information, probably for silly legal reasons, then the chart can not be accurate. The best it can be is an educated guess.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Considering the high turnover at EA I'm sure there are plenty of former employees and not so loyal current ones that could be this guys insider information source. He obviously keeps them anonymous so is it so hard to believe someone he knows would let it slip? Apparently the Dev's also like to drink at the local watering hole. Someone go buy em shots until they confirm a number of subscribers. [​IMG]
     
  45. 5% Luck

    5% Luck Guest

    I keep hearing about self presence. Phhtt!!!

    Last time i went to a game store the PC section was well 5 yrs old in crudy krinkled boxes. No one(at least near me) uses stores to buy PC games anymore. They download them. For free mostly. I know piracy is a bad idea but it seems to me to go hand in hand with the PC. Ive used many games in the past that in retrospect I wish I gave to maker/designer the money the deserved. I went to a game store and sunk in my chest at the damage WE"VE done as consumers to our beloved gaming franchises. But the market is still there and inspite of a posible ressesion seems to do well. They have found a way to still make a profit.
    I wont tell you I know all the ins and ous of this market but it seems to me to still have a head on its shoulders despite 100s of milions of dollars of theft each year. That said Id have to say either when we do pay, we pay that much too much or, they are affiliated with an underground mobster organization that steals it back!

    These numbers are junk!
     
  46. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    EA doesn't release subscriber numbers. I have no idea where these are coming from, but don't forget your grains of salt.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    My Doctor has me on a low sodium diet. Could you at least comment on the geographic break down of where UO players are connecting from; not raw number but %s.
     
  47. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    EA doesn't release subscriber numbers. I have no idea where these are coming from, but don't forget your grains of salt.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    So, what are the numbers for UO? I guess you won't tell us since, per your above quote, EA does not release this information. Still, it seems fairly accurate, the 75k figure...

    Also, Jeremy asking us to "not forget your grains of salt" is pretty darn misleading. Are we supposed to believe that UO is doing so much better than 75k that to declare a 75k figure would be to take it with grains of salt? I doubt UO is doing that well at all. Maybe Jeremy was referring to UO being far worse than 75k... that would be more believable.
     
  48. Masuri

    Masuri Seasoned Veteran
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    <blockquote><hr>

    Kind of funny how DAOC and UO are on similar rates of decline according to the chart, also I would hope since it seems that UO has more subscribers than DAOC that Mythic has more resources dedicated to UO.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    But DAoC is duplicated by several other games, chief among them that gargantuan WoW. Why would you trawl around in a boring ugly level grind with tedious boring RvR when you could play WoW? It's an easy choice. Whereas the only real alternatives to UO are EVE, in which you are basically your ship (not the sort to appeal to UO players) or SWG, whose skill system, housing, and crafting was nerfed with the NGE class system just over a year into the game, destroying it overnight. So no wonder persistent-world-gamers are still in UO - it's the best one left. That's just not saying much.

    I'd be shocked to discover the numbers were more than a few thousand players off the stated mark - nay, not players - accounts. A lot of us just can't let go, so we pay, and are counted - but that doesn't mean we play. It shows when the liveliest bank on the shard rarely has more than half a dozen people. Even on Atlantic, the biggest of the shards, Britain bank in the evening is a tiny portion of that same bank on Great Lakes was in 1997, long before the game even peaked. You don't need statistics to understand what's happened to this game, and see that there are fewer people playing month by month.
     
  49. Nixon[I-C]

    Nixon[I-C] Certifiable
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    UO's growth after UO:R wasn't entirely down to the introduction of trammel irrespective of what people think. The expansion itself and the marketing, release of european shards and so forth was a large part of the reason there was a spike. There were so many other factors people simply choose to ignore to strengthen the arguement that trammel made UO awesome, but I will agree it certainly made it more marketable and appealing to players who prefered closed box communities - which has ultimately been UO's downfall.
     
  50. Guest

    Guest Guest

    ...

    Generally Sir Bruce's numbers have been accurate within reason (even if his chart has been misused because of it). I have to agree with the reply to Jeremy that the wink and nod a year or so back when it was reportedly bouncing back some has now shown to be a mistake.

    Be that as it may, where are we now?

    Let's see... on the one hand, we just came out of what was EASILY two of the best supported years for UO in terms of Dev activity, events, additions to the game and so on. The down side of this is that right now, even though we do have the event system up and running again for the moment, and although we've had a couple of "fix-it" publishes, the level of support for the game has had a very visible downturn.

    The idea posted here from time to time was "What if UO were sold from EA to another company". Well, we basically had that happen after a manner with UO now under the Mythic banner (which itself is under EA now, so it was kind of done in reverse). With that came our first problem of many that currently plague UO...

    Problem 1 Cross Country moves are hell on Dev Teams. Unfortunately, this happened during one of the better built teams in the game causing the loss of several key personalities. Generally, this would be only a temporary problem, but it appears from what info we are being given (or more importantly NOT given) that the "rebuild" of the team is either going absurdly slow or isn't happening.

    Problem 2 The 2d client isn't going to bring in new blood.
    Sorry hard core 2d players, but it's the simple truth. If it COULD, we wouldn't be having this discussion. An MMOG by nature doesn't end, however by the same token, technology doesn't stop advancing either. Many non-story based titles spawn sequels not to continue a story, but because these titles are self contained and cannot be updated. Therefore to add in new graphics, effects, gameplay enhancements and so on, they have to make a new version. MMOGs break this mold. Since an MMOG is based on a client/server model, all you have to do is upgrade the server when possible and the client when game technology makes the current client obsolete. This leads us to the next problem...

    Problem 3 As it stands now, the KR client isn't going to bring in the new blood either.
    Yep, I'll admit it... why? Because the KR client is still stuck in that weird "not quite out of beta" status. While it's "released", it is in no way finished, polished or ready to become the standard client. The bigger portion of this problem is that currently, there seems to be little to no activity in terms of working on the KR client at all. Unless they have a MONSTER patch they have to be hush-hush about, KR is starting down the same track that kept the 3d client from becoming the standard client as was originally intended when it was initially developed. Dual clients are like dual rulesets... a tough act to balance in terms of resources and simply remembering to cover the same changes between the two (most notable example currently... the lack of artwork for Threads in the new scenario and the general lack of support for the new client with the new scenario).

    Problem 4 UO is a game of choice, however the support for the choice of PvP has been and continues to be SEVERELY limited.
    While I may not be a player that spends their time PvPing, it doesn't take a genius to recognize that PvP has been woefully neglected. Yes, there have been a few recent changes and talk of revamps for Factions, but this goes back to Problem 1. Without a rebuilt dev team and with a LOT of focus on the Event, how do they plan for this to occur in a substantial manner?

    Now I say all of this as a LONG TIME proponent of UO. But as I said before... even a proponent of something, if they are honest, will be able to see the problems facing what they enjoy. I just hope the Devs see the same thing, or otherwise we have yet more problems to worry about.
     
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