how about items that are stolen/looted from blue players, who aren't members of the thieves guild, are tagged with a flag 'Stolen from: <name>', which is only visible to the perpetrator, and to detectives that use forensics on the item, which would make the status known to everyone. if a detective recovers the item, the detective can turn over the item to town guards, who will deposit it in the victim's bankbox, rewarding the detective with justice, fame, and karma. (the stolen flag could even be a trophy for some thieves and murderers). this would apply to items that don't stack. equipping visibly stolen tagged items result in a karma hit, and rapid decrease in your virtue stats. the stolen flag would wear off after some determined duration. vendors won't associate with stolen flagged items (whether visible or not), so the perpetrator would have to fence the item person to person only until the flag wears off, which means a detective could forensics it during trade negotiations. forensics should also be able to remove/dispel disguises and incognito, along with revealing thieves guild. high forensics should boost detect hidden by preventing hiding/smokebomb/invis use for 10 seconds upon reveal. i had more, but i seem to forgot in my last train of thought. i'll add more later maybe. obviously this would be of best use on siege and with roleplay guilds.