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Forged Metal of Artifacts is a stealth nerf to meditation

Discussion in 'UHall' started by War Machine GTFO, Jan 10, 2011.

  1. The new item--Forged Metal of Artifacts--that lets a crafter enhance something at a 100% success rate is a stealth nerf to meditation users, especially mages or if you want to look at it the other way it's an unnecessary buff to dexers.

    So, to be clear on the benefits of this thing, you can craft a piece of armor with a normal material (iron ingots, normal wood, or normal leather), then imbue something to max intensity (say a resist), then enhance it at 100% success rate with this item to increase a resist (or some other things using special materials) over the normal imbuing cap. In other words, using this method creates better stuff. You could do the same thing before, but the chance of success was low and made the cost prohibitive for many (but not all).

    I see several big beneficiaries here.

    Any non-med character can switch to woodland armor, imbue it up, and enhance it with bloodwood to gain 6-10 HPR depending on how many crafted pieces they use in their suit. Does a meditation mage benefit from this? No.

    Any archer can enhance 10 more SSI onto their bow to 40. Sure, a lot of archers already have 40 SSI on their bow, but many of them got it by enhancing then imbuing and that 40 SSI took up imbuing weight. Now they don't need to have that extra 10 SSI take up weight and they can stack more velocity or hit lightning or whatever. Do meditation mages benefit from this? Well, maybe they could put 2 HPR on their SC mage weapon bokutos more easily than before.

    Any non-meditation using character could also use heartwood enhancement to make an uber suit. Heartwood has a chance to add 5 HCI or 10 DI to a piece of armor. A dexer could get 20 more HCI or 40 more DI from their suit using this method (assuming they use 4 crafted pieces)--sure it's expensive because their is a chance of getting something that isn't HCI or DI, but it's a lot cheaper using the new item than it was before when enhancing could fail. Do meditation users benefit from this? No. Not at all. Do they suffer by having to fight archers with 30 or 40 more imbuing weight on their bows than before and 40 free damage increase? Yes, absolutely.

    Every suit benefits from gaining a few extra resistances from this item. Even medable mage suits can gain up to a maximum of 16 in a resist. Sure, meditation using mages can benefit from this, but everyone else benefits from this too.

    Bottom line, non-med using dexers benefit from the addition of this item a LOT more than meditation users do--especially mages. In a few months we'll be seeing virtually every decent non-med using pvp dexer in the game running around with a suit that is significantly and noticeably better than they are running around with today.

    We won't see the same from meditation mages. Gaining 12-16 total resistances does not allow a mage to wear a significantly better suit.

    Fix it. Either make leather armor have more properties, remove properties from wooden armor, nerf dexers, buff mages, buff meditation, nerf focus, whatever. I don't care. Maybe you guys thought dexers needed some extra help in PvP, but I think that's crazy.

    Good job, however, on finding an item that even I, who have only ever bought one item from UOgamecodes, would buy. Now you just need to make UO free to play and you'll draw millions of gamers who will want to buy the new items.

    Also, you guys misspelled Enhancement on the game codes page where you're selling the item. Just a heads up.
     
  2. chuckoatl

    chuckoatl Guest

    Every 40 SSI bow in the game was made by enhancing it after imbuing it. 6-10 HPR isn't going to make a difference in PvP. and enhancing metal armor is just not going to happen. People also are not going to use heartwood to TRY and get 5 hci. I really dont see this changing anything in the game.
     
  3. Sickshine

    Sickshine Guest

    How many bows did most people have to destroy in an effort to raise the ssi to 40? This makes the first attempt a guaranteed success. If you do not see how adding 6-10 hpr to a suit that is already all 70's max hp increase max stam increase max lmc 12 plus mr you aren't looking at the big picture. People will try to enhance hci or di onto a piece to free space on jewels or weapons.
     
  4. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    I have never enhanced a bow to 40 THEN imbue it. Agreed. Besides the chance to break a bow via enhancement is relatively low, I wouldnt burn "$$" on enhancing bows with the said tool.

    6-10 HPR isnt going to make a difference in PvP but 18 will. I personally have a suit running 18 HPR, as a human its a whooping 2 hit point per second healed passively. It's huge in PvP if used right. Stealthers can get redlined and pop a smoke bomb and goes into puppy form and get to 40 HPI and back to full life in no time without even coming out of stealth. However the suit cost me millions to make total pieces for the suit is 5 and the pieces broken during the making of the suit was 28. Using the tool will surely make this type of high end suit much easier to make and save GP at the expense of "$$".

    I have seem a heartwood enhanced suit at 2 HCI each. Not that I would personally do it but it was a blast knowing its possible. BTW its possible to enhance until you get +2hci or di on all pieces THEN imbue at much lighter cost but at the expense of losing 1 mod to hci and unable to break the imbue then enhance over cap resist barrier. And I dont do pre-enhanced suits. (Always imbue then enhance) thats the only way you can peak out a suit.

    It's not game changing addition. It only makes people willing to spend "$$" to have much easier time to achieve the peaked out suit that otherwise would cost a ton of gold to craft.

    It's no different than other games where spending cash and getting certain items to gain advantages over most players. I dont like it but oh well what can we do about it. The said tool will quite possibly be a great seller for EA especially if the players are more knowledgeable of the game mechanics.
     
  5. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    Alot of people have enhanced with heartwood the hard way for awhile now. You can get the resists you want easier with metal armor than leather, although I guess using wood is the best way to go.

    As for the other post about how many bows were broken, I broke 1 out of every like 8-9 bows, since I make them for more than just me that is fairly accurate, so the change is not that big of a deal, a 10% change for me. And it is not really that huge of a deal since most of the people who enhance their stuff have more than enough money/resources to risk breaking the item, or they wouldn't be doing it, but I guess it may hurt in game sales of resources as now they wont waste any. *shrugs*
     
  6. shulginist

    shulginist Guest

    Not many at all. I think I broke maybe 3 or 4 out of 10 bows that I enhanced to 40 ssi.
     
  7. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    So, pretty much anyone that have actually enhanced bows know that it is much easier than tailor/smith items :)

    I'd always thought it was weird.
     
  8. hawkeye_pike

    hawkeye_pike Babbling Loonie
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    What bothers me most is that UO still is going steadily into the direction of putting more and more powerful items into the game. This makes gameplay even more item dependent, unbalances PvP even more (since only players who have the possibilities can use powerful items), and makes PvM even more a joke than it already is.
    This also destroys the feeling of pride and joy for crafters, cause all they now need is to spend a few bucks on a nifty item for 100% success.

    To me, this has only the following effects: I spend even less time in Felucca than before. I moved to a shard where all players in the RP community use non-magic gm-made equipment only, and I use this kind of equipment even for PvM. Which makes PvM a fun challenge again.
     
  9. popps

    popps Always Present
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    I am not sure I understand how this enhancing tool would be a stealth nerf to meditation users.....

    You explain


    I see nothing in the above explained process that might make one think of a nerf to the meditation rate...
    Does the process at some point pop a gump up warning that by enhancing the item it will loose the mage property or that meditation rate will be penalized ?
     
  10. lucitus

    lucitus UOEC Modder
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    Mate my first armor after Stygian Abyss is made like this, imbue and enhance it with high break chance, now also players with lower ingame time got a chance to get such quality piece of armor.

    And it has nothing todo any way with a nerf of Meditaion, how i read it is it possible to enhance leather, wood, metal armor and not only metal armor.
     
  11. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Well, I think this is the natural evolution of a game that so much heavily relies on items to keep players' interest as up...

    I mean, every novelty after a while is no longer a novelty and becomes old. So, for the developers, in a game that relies so much heavily on items, to keep players' interest as up it is necessary to always introduce new items.
    And, unfortunately, these new items cannot be less or equally powerful as those already existing because then players would not see much of a change.

    Hence, the game get always more and more powerfull items.

    Of course, these new, more powerfull items make the current monsters easier to be killed and so the challenge feeling drops and also stronger or more beefed up monsters need to be released.

    Rinse and repeat in an endless circle which, personally, I find repetitive and boring.

    Besides, the enormous number of items, modifiers, combinations among them not only makes playing for the average casual player a royal headache to have to handle all the possible combinations and blah, blah but most of all, make it a daunting task for Developers to have to "try" maintain balance among the various templates possible.

    This, especially when that same game also has PvP, besides, PvM......

    When the balance is not maintained, most players will just seek the same one template (the winning one) and so the whole game looses out in diversity and number of roles played by players in the game.

    This is why I have always disliked item based and I much more prefer skill based.

    Games that rely too much on items get "trapped" in these items vicious circle which drags away development resources from content, storyline and overall game environment.

    The Developers have to spent a lot of their time into designing, coding and balancing out new items and new beefed up monsters to repeat the cycle, endlessly.
     
  12. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    You are paying to make something that people have already been doing since SA came out easier, and faster. The things you noted are NOT new things, people do them all the time.

    If people want to be dumb and spend 7 dollars a suit to not have to collect the extra ingredients in case of enhance failure, then thats their silly problem. I honestly don't see most people getting this item, and if they do I cant see it being more than one or twice in their UO lives. But if they can get dummies to pay for something like this then more power to them. It will just keep the game running longer.

    It wont effect anything. Everyone will have the same items they have now. The ONLY place this comes into play is trying to get the HCI bonus from heartwood enhance etc, which will STILL be a huge drain on resources because what makes it such a pain is getting the random roll of HCI bonus, so who is going to risk spending a dollar per go on an item that only has a 1 in what... 4? 5? 6? chance of being what they want?

    Only someone rich, or really dumb, or both.
     
  13. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    It does not make the game more item dependent. There are no items that these tools can be used to make that don't already exist in massive quantities.

    It will have no effect on pvp other than the possibility of suit making going faster. I mean do you think there are people (let alone dedicated pvpers) out there who make a bow, imbue it, then destroy it when trying to enhance and then go: "Oh well! I guess I don't get that bow!"? Of course not. They just farm up or buy enough ingredients until they make it.
    There are no items not being made because of enhance destruction. Imbuing ingredients are cheap and easy to get if you don't want to pay. It will have zero effect.

    It does not destroy crafters pride. The only crafter who would buy such an item is one who doesn't give a damn about the pride of having crafted an item. If they did why on earth would they have bought the item? To compete with other crafter? This will not effect item sales/competition.
    Crafters will not NEED to buy these items to compete as has been suggested before. It's simply counter productive to spend 6 dollars to 100% make a suit if you could have just instead spent like two hours farming to get the extra stuff. Especially if you sell items/suits regularly.
    I mean really, do you think people will keep shelling out a dollar per item to get some edge in the UO economy? It could run into the hundreds of real life dollars in very very short order. This will not happen, especially when you consider how very little a million UO gold is worth in real money.

    Then you should have stopped going to fel pretty much a month or two after SA came out, because there will be NOTHING new out there as a result of these items that weren't there once they allowed you to enhance after imbuing. That happened like a year ago.

    Just a result of people freaking out for no reason. These items offer zilch but convenience due to the fairly ridiculous cost.
     
  14. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    Well...it doesn't offer anything new, just offers something old in massive quantities. So basically, for some people it makes the game go from a few people having xtimes better items than them, to multiple times that number having better items than them. Of course...I don't believe most of the enhanced props actually make such a huge impact that I feel the need to do the same.
     
  15. Picus at the office

    Picus at the office Certifiable
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    The whole wood armor gives a huge advantage strictly for dexxers is wrong. You could make a 2 MR, 8LMC, 20 LRC, 5 HPI, 5 MI wood piece and enhance for the resist bonus and mage armor with just as much luck as you could for DI or HCI. This piece would even sell on the open market for a good penny if you managed to have any of these mods hit as some mystic dex people would happily use it.
     
  16. Beer_Cayse

    Beer_Cayse Guest

    Prior to AOS crafters COULD produce fine items - on their own and without external aids. Sort of a boost to the ego I would say. Think that could be one of the reasons some of us desire a pre-AOS "classic" shard?
     
  17. jack flash uk

    jack flash uk Crazed Zealot
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    Ultima Online has alot more going for it than just PVP, incase you did not know

    I for one think the tool, is AWESOME for my PVM needs and i have bought 2 so far and intend to buy more

    and stop with the nerf stick waving, there are people paid to make these decisions
     
  18. Alvinho

    Alvinho Great Lakes Forever!
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    I have owned a 40 SSI bow since before imbuing was released your idea is flawed
     
  19. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    I think the real issue here is that the developers have implemented a way to get 100% guaranteed overpowered armor and all you have to do is fork over some $$$. The system was sort of balanced before because you had a big chance to destroy the piece and all the rare imbuing ingredients you collected.
     
  20. Gorbs

    Gorbs Sage
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    Way back when it took longer to raise skills. I didn't have gm magery until sometime in the Fall of '98. At some point, probably the UO:R patch, they implemented power hour. I can't speak from the pvm or rper perspective, but in the pvp community most people were outraged. They claimed that they worked so hard to achieve something and now every Tom, ****, and Harry would have the same character. I thought, "Great! Instead of one 7x character I'll easily make a few more." However, longterm benefit was the the numbers of oranges dramatically increased for us.

    I don't know that this pay-for-play tool will have the same benefit. I do know that all it does is save time and/or in game gold. Merchants may even see increases in sales as more people are willing to use the 90-100% imbues that used the most costly SA ingredients where before they would have stuck with a lower number to deflect costs of breakages.
     
  21. Picus at the office

    Picus at the office Certifiable
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    But really there is a very limited amount of uber armor to be made. If you want it to be medable then we can all quickly see that it is plain leather with 5 mods enhanced with barb/spined/horned.

    Metal is currently trumped by wood so then its either wood with 5 mods and HPR2 or the random stuff from heartwood. Nothing is overpowering unless you take some serious planning for making the suit and even then it's limited for the end results.
     
  22. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    Really people were outraged? I loved powerhour. Quite possibly the greatest addition to the game considering most skills were a long grind. Magery being one of them... I mean full mana to nothing in 5 ebolts or 2 fs + an ebolt or 2 EQ was the huge "time killer" to raise magery to GM.
     
  23. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    Mage armor is one of the heartwood props?

    You claim the items are not dex specific, but here you say anyone who wants it to be medable will be using leather. Your two posts contradict each other. I don't really agree with the "uber armor" issue, since I don't think the possible additions will make such a difference that I would feel cheated, but still your posts to not relay the same message.
     
  24. Viquire

    Viquire Crazed Zealot
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    The only fault I can find with this tool comes from the discussion of the "Whale" in the townhall last fall. They discussed the fact that it would be available from the store, but that they wanted to ensure things that were available through the store could also be earned in some way in game.

    There are several things that are not in any way available through the game that are available in the store. But I can't see this addition breaking things more so in any way than they are anyhow so as to make the game unplayable.
     
  25. ChReuter

    ChReuter Guest

    If you weren't around in 98, than try to imagine gming magery without meditation! Now that was a pain, but it did give you something to be proud of when you hit 100.0.

    Of course I was even happier when I dropped to 99.8 magery due to my own stupidity and some joker camping at skara bank
     
  26. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Meh, I really don't think its going to do anything, the items are already pretty proliferated. If these things were like 100 charges for 10 bucks, it would make a MUCH larger impact anyway, and even then I don't think it would be the big a deal.

    The only enhancement that really matters is wood. And really is only a major improvement with heartwood armor. But like I said, since theres a fairly bad chance to get the mod you want, it would be a HUGE waste of irl money to use the tool for this.
     
  27. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    I basically agree. Although I guess bloodwood might be another option (for the resists, and the 2hpr is not a terrible idea)
     
  28. Lefty

    Lefty Lore Keeper
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    I really don't know why you are worried. PVP dexers will always suffer from a limited supply of mana. As far as swing speed, hci, di. Most already have this capped as well as LMC.

    This tool will mostly serve pvm templates than pvpers who already cover all the aspects needed. Besides how many dexer elves you meet on the battle field? It is common knowledge non med armor kills passive med MR. How many dexers in pvp you see running in ring, chain, plate or studded?
     
  29. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    Just tossing this out there...but...rank 1 faction earings.
     
  30. Picus of Napa

    Picus of Napa Slightly Crazed
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    Yes.

    I was saying that you could use the same theory to make a uber set of armor based upon wood rolling the dice for the mage armor property but who would really do this? 99% of the time a person would use leather simple due to the "hidden" mage armor property but there would be a option for those that wanted to go for a insane woodland based setup.
     
  31. TheLetterQ

    TheLetterQ Journeyman
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    You could simply imbue mage armor..and then enhance with bloodwood and your piece is medable. Easy peasey...Lemon squeezey.

    Q
     
  32. Saint of Killers

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    People wanting perfect 140 luck pieces would probably dig this item.
     
  33. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    Wastes a prop, the point of this would be to get the most props possible, but I guess if hpr was going to be one of the props and med the other, that would be the way to go.
     
  34. Melchior1

    Melchior1 Journeyman
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    I can see both valid points. Alot of the "modern pvp" has very little to do with the suits anyways (I'll leave that alone) but I know a lot of pvm and pvp playing folks who still love the benefits of being human to get the med and focus addition to MR let alone wearing a full medable suit. So yes I can see both arguments. Crafters got kicked in the junk with the introduction to arties. What they should have done is also given new things for crafters to do other than farm relentlessly for resources to make armor with, which is hardly sellable because everyone has a crafter now. Although I don't pvp at all really anymore, I can see how maybe one would believe that there is going to be this multitude of non-med players being reborn and destroying whatever is left of PvP. Meditation still reigns supreme in my book. I guess mages and necros better get hot and macro the mana drain spells. Where there is a will, there's a way but I wouldn't lose sleep over it.
     
  35. chuckoatl

    chuckoatl Guest

    My idea is not flawed. You have a 30SSI runic bow made with ash. Learn the mechanics before you open your mooth..... :)