1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Greetings Guest!!

    In order to combat SPAM on the forums, all users are required to have a minimum of 2 posts before they can submit links in any post or thread.

    Dismiss Notice

form follows function by "Draconi"

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Storm, May 7, 2009.

  1. Storm

    Storm UO Forum Moderator
    Moderator Professional Premium Wiki Moderator Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2004
    Messages:
    7,469
    Likes Received:
    361
    Form Follows Function

    When we shipped the original Kingdom Reborn client it featured a completely redone map. There was a new waypoint system, icons for locations, and an overhauled look and feel. In fact, you could say the "new look" was more of a "ye olde looke" straight out of the Age of Discovery. A yellowed parchment with faded colors, crinkled edges – far more realistic as a "map" than the old UO way of doing things.

    Unlike the 15th century Europeans, however, our own explorers quickly discovered that this absolutely gorgeous remake of our old map was mostly useless. In fact, the parchment version essentially diluted the critical detail that the Legacy client offered, combining large swaths of terrain into abstract blotches of mute hues, rendering distant obstacles and paths invisible.

    So much time was spent on the new look and new functionality that when we finally shipped KR, well, the map wasn't even as functional as the Legacy version.

    Where the older client would overlay player houses and other objects on top of the map, the KR version couldn't. Then again, it would've looked horrible for the housing art to be dropped atop the beautiful hand-drawn look of the map, so it became a cut feature, amongst several others.

    For Stygian Abyss, we approached it from the opposite direction. Much of the unnecessary fluff was pulled out, and we replaced the map with the same kind you'd expect in Legacy – a full bird’s eye view of what's actually in the game, and redesigned the look of the map around how it should be used.

    Our lesson learned was that in KR, we tried to make the functionality match the new look (often by cutting features), without success. In SA, we’ve done the opposite, letting the form follow the actual functions the players need.

    Thankfully, the engineers have pulled off miracles to get this done, delivering a map system for SA that's actually a complement and improvement over the old one. The artists, too, integrated the result beautifully into the UI. Now it works like Legacy, but has a full Atlas mode (finally giving our players a way to see the whole map without using a 3rd party app). It's even rotated correctly (at a tilt) by default!

    Some might miss the parchment look and feel of the KR version - that's understandable. Yet given the choice between the Google Maps of UO, versus a pretty piece of parchment, we wanted to err on the side of giving players more freedom.


    there are pics of it on facebook
    http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=79091827098&ref=nf
    hope the link works
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Coldren

    Coldren Sage
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 13, 2008
    Messages:
    741
    Likes Received:
    115
    Thank you SO much for posting this. I don't have a Facebook account, and have no interest in making one.

    Excellent article, Draconi! I agree - Functionality is all well and good, but if the form isn't accepted, it will have adoption issues. I think that was one of the BIG issues with KR that thankfully it appears that you are addressing in SA.

    Here's to hoping for the best for the new client! I want Function AND FORM, dag nabbbit! *Rattles his old-timers cane*.
     
  3. Storm

    Storm UO Forum Moderator
    Moderator Professional Premium Wiki Moderator Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2004
    Messages:
    7,469
    Likes Received:
    361
    I know alot of people dont have them so I check facebook everyday and see if draconi or other designers have posted articles if so I try to post them here ... for the ones who do not have it...

    oh and did the link work just curious?
     
  4. Coldren

    Coldren Sage
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 13, 2008
    Messages:
    741
    Likes Received:
    115
    I get to a Facebook login.. So.. Not quite sure.
     
  5. Storm

    Storm UO Forum Moderator
    Moderator Professional Premium Wiki Moderator Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2004
    Messages:
    7,469
    Likes Received:
    361
    ok thats what I thought you have to have a facebook I will try to copy the images over later if someone else does not get to it first
     
  6. I've always wondered where Draconi got his nic...

    I noticed that on a map in a book, in the Midkemia series from Raymond E. Feist, there is a city on the SW coastline called "Draconi."
     
  7. Thangorodrim

    Thangorodrim Guest

    Nice work, Storm. Thanks.
     
  8. Phaen Grey

    Phaen Grey Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    1,053
    Likes Received:
    7
    Looks good, a nice addition to the game.
     
  9. PsychoKinetic

    PsychoKinetic Journeyman
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 24, 2008
    Messages:
    252
    Likes Received:
    14
    Awesome. Nice work Draconi and team.
     
  10. Storm

    Storm UO Forum Moderator
    Moderator Professional Premium Wiki Moderator Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2004
    Messages:
    7,469
    Likes Received:
    361
    I have read that series it was a long time ago I knew that name was familiar !! I may have to go to library and check it out :)
     
  11. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    3,154
    Likes Received:
    708
    I am glad the team comments are coming back. But I don't understand why this is all being posted elsewhere besides the main UO website.
     
  12. T'Challa

    T'Challa Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    1,969
    Likes Received:
    15
    Because it's Facebook, and Facebook is "cool" and "trendy"

    Just like Myspace was last year. It shall pass, never fear.
     
  13. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
    Professional Stratics Veteran Alumni Dread Lord

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    17,382
    Likes Received:
    4,706
    I wish I was cool...
     
  14. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    5,320
    Likes Received:
    528
    ...

    Going back to the look of the original ingame map was a good idea. While I have supported the advancement of the graphics in the game, this is one area where they were correct in going back to the original look of the map.

    The "classic map" was one of the early UI tweaks that we did as modders because of the way the new map looked.
     
  15. Hildebrand

    Hildebrand Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2005
    Messages:
    1,697
    Likes Received:
    1
    Insightful story. Thanks Draconi.

    Thanks Storm for posting.
    I'm not cool enough for Facebook or Twitter.
     
  16. Crysta

    Crysta Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran Alumni

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    2,418
    Likes Received:
    73
    Y'know, i'd love to see a large version of the original KR map.. I don't mean the one it uses now,either.. I mean the one that looked exactly like a real map.. i'd love to see the whole thing again.
     
  17. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    5,320
    Likes Received:
    528
    ...

    I have the first beta version on a DVD that would have those files, but nowhere to upload them.
     
  18. Draconi

    Draconi Most explosive UO Legend
    VIP Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2004
    Messages:
    1,223
    Likes Received:
    53
    Orrrrrr it's just way easier to post stuff that doesn't clutter up the Herald, on a place that has a strong UO and Ultima community.

    :)
     
  19. Storm

    Storm UO Forum Moderator
    Moderator Professional Premium Wiki Moderator Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2004
    Messages:
    7,469
    Likes Received:
    361
    lol good idea
     
  20. Borric

    Borric Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 21, 2008
    Messages:
    338
    Likes Received:
    22
    What? Where? I am the biggest Feist fan out there, hence my name. I've never noticed this. I am going to look in any books and see if I can find this.

    Also...

    Nice look to the new map. I signed up for the SA beta, so hopefully I can see it first hand.

    Thanks,
    Borric
     
  21. D'Amavir

    D'Amavir Guest

    Hmm. A place that has a strong UO and Ultima community. And a place where you can 'post stuff'. Hmm. Maybe someone should make some sort of fansite where game developers and players can come together to talk about the game itself. We can call it Stratego! Or Strategery! It just feels right.
     
  22. Hildebrand

    Hildebrand Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2005
    Messages:
    1,697
    Likes Received:
    1
    Easy, you say?
    Perhaps it is easy for them to use these new sites.
    I fear I might have to join the dark side.

    But didn't they say Facebook is addicting? That's all I need now. *rolls eyes*
     
  23. Draconi

    Draconi Most explosive UO Legend
    VIP Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2004
    Messages:
    1,223
    Likes Received:
    53
    rofl - "And where my posts remain in one place, not subject to the whims of threads and flamewar."
     
  24. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
    Professional Stratics Veteran Alumni Dread Lord

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    17,382
    Likes Received:
    4,706
    *chuckles* I can see your point.
     
  25. Kariny

    Kariny UO Lake Superior News Reporter
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2004
    Messages:
    568
    Likes Received:
    59
    Perhaps we should ask stratics to offer a forum for locked posts for devs instead? They can post without feedback from gamers or flames.
     
  26. D'Amavir

    D'Amavir Guest

    Yes, because the fansite Strategery would have no capabilities of locking threads or making them unable to be posted to. Gotcha.

    But you are right. Using some 'popular' social network that people have to sign up for in order to be able to even read to get out UO information makes much more sense than using an existing UO fansite to do so. Much much much more sense.

    Carry on.
     
  27. Nok

    Nok Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    1,041
    Likes Received:
    33
    Or add a RSS export mod to the dev's Facebook pages that can be imported to the fan sites. ;)
     
  28. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
    Professional Stratics Veteran Alumni Dread Lord

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    17,382
    Likes Received:
    4,706
    It makes sense to me.
     
  29. D'Amavir

    D'Amavir Guest

    Too logical. After all, this is the same company that has apparently outdated screenshots on their OFFICIAL SA website while they have supposedly updated screenshots on Facebook. After all, where do you imagine players would go looking for screenshots of a new expansion for a game? The official website for said game or Facebook? Be real. Facebook of course.
     
  30. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
    Professional Stratics Veteran Alumni Dread Lord

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    17,382
    Likes Received:
    4,706
    I expect "fans" will find the info and bring it to the sites. Much like how this thread started.
     
  31. Storm

    Storm UO Forum Moderator
    Moderator Professional Premium Wiki Moderator Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2004
    Messages:
    7,469
    Likes Received:
    361
    That would be my plan :) I am on here all the time anyway so might as well do something useful
     
  32. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
    Professional Stratics Veteran Alumni Dread Lord

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    17,382
    Likes Received:
    4,706
    Thank you, Storm. It is much appreciated. *nods*
     
  33. Draconi

    Draconi Most explosive UO Legend
    VIP Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2004
    Messages:
    1,223
    Likes Received:
    53
    Well, outdated in the sense that they're development screenshots from areas of the game we're still building, since the expansion hasn't been released yet :)

    Makes sense though, maybe we should tag them specifically as "In Development"
     
  34. D'Amavir

    D'Amavir Guest

    Look, over your head, its the point you missed. Is there not an updated screenshot on Facebook showing an area that the current OFFICIAL website still shows with an old screenshot?

    I wouldn't know since I don't use Facebook. I did, however, see two different versions of the same screenshot. One, from the OFFICIAL website (still there I believe) and one where someone claimed it was from Facebook. Is that not true?

    Again, I would imagine that if you are going to put up new screenshots of something that you would do it on the official site where most people will be looking for them.
     
  35. D'Amavir

    D'Amavir Guest

    Don't get me wrong. I totally appreciate the effort that people like you make to supply us with information. I just think that if you are going to 'post stuff' about your game you would do so in a place more related to the game itself. I don't know, like the official website or the main fansite for it maybe.

    Adding more places people have to go looking for 'new' information because the official places don't have any is a poor idea. Look at Twitter. Last updated April 24th.
     
  36. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
    Professional Stratics Veteran Alumni Dread Lord

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    17,382
    Likes Received:
    4,706
    I disagree. It is Draconi's place he can post what he wants. You can look if you wish. Think of it as a blog... Draconi is by no means required to subject himself to Stratics... yet he does regularly. *shakes head* I don't know why...
     
  37. D'Amavir

    D'Amavir Guest

    Of course its his place and he can post what he wants. Just like I can point out how stupid it is to use a non gaming place for this sort of thing. Its the beauty of freedom. People have the freedom to do dumb things and others have the freedom to point those things out. Ahhh, America.
     
  38. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
    Reporter Professional Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter Royal Knight

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2000
    Messages:
    18,973
    Likes Received:
    5,460
    Thanks Draconi! And tell everyone excellent job!....

    Please while your working remember that I need to save my journals... (The only other 3rd party app that would keep me from making the switch to SA... UO Journal Converter!)....

    Don't forget my new dyable underwear!

    And then speech.... I can change the speech in 2d to things much more eye pleasing and easy on my eyes.... can't do that in KR...... Still a few things needing addressed in the switch from 2d to any new client.... But you are making excellent strides. (Still wishes you all would please pretty please change the default color of the 2d emote to something that actually shows up in the in-game journal).
     
  39. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
    Professional Stratics Veteran Alumni Dread Lord

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    17,382
    Likes Received:
    4,706
    Why do you say it is a "non gaming place"? It is about a game. It is written by a a game Dev. It is open for any gamer to read...
     
  40. D'Amavir

    D'Amavir Guest

    Facebook is written by a game Dev? Really? I never knew that. And its about a game? Really? Then you won't mind me posting some other face book links here that I found? Since its all about a 'game' and all I assume its ok?
     
  41. Draconi

    Draconi Most explosive UO Legend
    VIP Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2004
    Messages:
    1,223
    Likes Received:
    53
    Well, for a non-gaming place, its done well to have a thousand members sign up for the fan page in less than two weeks :)

    Like any fansite, since we don't have an official one, we'll tend to release exclusive content to all that are interested. I've happily posted on UOForums, the Lost Lands, Stratics, and even my own blog (now defunct, and only personal things) for quite some time.

    Unfortunately, blogging about ***work*** simply isn't possible, unless I do it under the auspices of the company. Having an official dev page on Facebook allows me to do that, so I happily do!

    Keep in mind, many of the other fansites have gotten exclusive interviews and screenshots long before Facebook ever appeared :) This trend will continue, because the UO community, and the Ultima community in general, is spread out and not necessarily interested in refreshing the SA site every day hoping for an update.

    But updating the site, you bet we will! There are entire sections greyed out now that will be chock full of tons of information, compared to the teasing morsels we give to the fansites.
     
  42. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
    Professional Stratics Veteran Alumni Dread Lord

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    17,382
    Likes Received:
    4,706

    *smiles* Really?
     
  43. Kariny

    Kariny UO Lake Superior News Reporter
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2004
    Messages:
    568
    Likes Received:
    59
    I believe what we are trying to get at is that these sites weren't originally recognized as sites EA/Mythic would allow their employees to post information on concerning their project.

    I may be wrong but since they have announced it in the herald that they gave the ok for devs/programmers to do such. That's why we are going to see more doing it.
    Either we will have to adapt or just wait till we axcess the information through other sources.
     
  44. Muu Bin

    Muu Bin Guest

    No idea what Facebook does, don't have an account, and don't really see a need to have one. BUT... from what I hear about it, isn't there a possibility that people can stumble across it based on tag names associated with it? If this is the case then this may be an indirect way of "advertising" the game to Facebook users. Again... I have no idea if this is how the website works but if it does... then it may, just may, attract new players.

    Just a thought :p
     
  45. D'Amavir

    D'Amavir Guest

    And how many people went to the official SA site to find outdate information? Got numbers on that?

    You honestly don't see the difference between UOForums (IT HAS UO IN ITS NAME) and Facebook? Really? You don't? Honestly?

    Again, you don't see the difference between a fansite and Facebook? I would say I am shocked. But, sadly, I am not.

    [/QUOTE]

    I would imagine the least you guys could do, and that's the least, is actually update a very bad screenshot when you clearly (as evidenced by the updated one) have a better one to show. Do you really not want people to buy SA? Honestly, you have the pic (supposedly) and yet the one that got nuked on on these very boards is still up at the official site?

    As for people having to go to the official site to see if there is an update, no. That's a much worse idea than having them go to 2000 other sites hoping that something new is out there for a game that so many people are interested in. Of course, that's only logical. After all, why would you want to check one official site when you can check a million unofficial ones instead?
     
  46. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
    Professional Stratics Veteran Alumni Dread Lord

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    17,382
    Likes Received:
    4,706
    Welcome to the 21'st century. Face book and Twitter are being used quite successfully as marketing tools by almost all corporations.
     
  47. Uriah Heep

    Uriah Heep Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran Alumni

    Joined:
    May 26, 2008
    Messages:
    3,834
    Likes Received:
    2,364
    And I will gladly take any information from the team, anywhere I can get it.
    Be it Facebook, UOForums, Stratics...wherever! :thumbsup:
     
  48. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
    Professional Stratics Veteran Alumni Dread Lord

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    17,382
    Likes Received:
    4,706
    I would venture to guess the the face book pages are as close to "official" as we will get. I appreciate the Mythic folks posting here. They are by no means required to.

    If you are talking about the mess that is Herald/UO.com... Well... That is what it is. I just hope they are busy building the future. That stuff is way back burner material.
     
  49. Draconi

    Draconi Most explosive UO Legend
    VIP Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2004
    Messages:
    1,223
    Likes Received:
    53
    Oh, there's no disagreement there. :p

    And yes, I'm quite clear on the difference between fansites and Facebook.

    Facebook is a communications platform like Wordpress, Blogger, or even a content management system like Drupal. Sure, it's good for just friends hanging out, but an entire portion of its functionality is dedicated to creating and managing fansites - we *inherited* the fan community that already existed there before we even founded an official page. A simple search for "Ultima Online" will show this amongst the dozens of unofficial pages.

    All we did was open another door for UO :)
     
  50. Mayadevi

    Mayadevi Guest

    Excellent work Draconi !

    Now can us cooks pretty please have my wield-able rolling pins or frying pans ?

    *grinnies*

    Mayadevi

    PS. I PM'ed you a concern about SA, 'cause i don't have a facebook account.. yet...