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FREE solution to eliminate cheaters/hackers. Yes or No.

Discussion in 'UHall' started by HD2300, May 9, 2009.

?

Get GMs to ban cheaters/hackers NOW

  1. Yes. It is FREE

    37 vote(s)
    61.7%
  2. No

    15 vote(s)
    25.0%
  3. Dunno

    8 vote(s)
    13.3%
  1. HD2300

    HD2300 Certifiable
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    Get current GMs to ban cheaters/hackers.

    Have a counter like WAR has Banhammer and display it somewhere.

    EA can do this NOW and it wont even cost them an extra cent.

    Do you approve and will this FREE solution be effective? Discuss.
     
  2. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    If they can find a 100% error-proof way to actually target hackers/cheaters, sure.

    Oh, and btw.
    :bdh:
     
  3. Bomb Bloke

    Bomb Bloke Lore Keeper
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    Unfortunately the legality of UOA makes it difficult to tell legal scripters from illegal scripters. Whether or not the player is AFK is the only real deciding factor.
     
  4. thelust6

    thelust6 Guest

    Some tell tale scenarios; characters taming in jholm bull pen following a set path round the pen and actions - i.e. tame, kill follow path, repeat, recall miners in fell - i.e. chop, chop *recall* twenty mins later chop, chop *recall* hit repeat for recall miners, fletchers completing heartwood fletching quests whether hidden or not, enjoy paging x
     
  5. Sweeney

    Sweeney Guest

    This is why SA should drop UOA's 3rd party status unless it modifies its macro abilities.
     
  6. MoneyMaker

    MoneyMaker Guest

    I think that a counter would go a long way to letting people know that EA is actually making attempts at getting rid of the prevalent cheating problem.

    As far as the statement about UOA, what is the problem with the macros?
    I understand a bit of what your getting at, but that would be a massively long macro. True, there is those who would write a massive macro. Possible solution for that would be a limit to the lines your able to write in the macro, say like 30.
    If I am off of your point, please clarify.
     
  7. Sweeney

    Sweeney Guest

    You are on point in both remarks.
     
  8. Kat

    Kat Crazed Zealot
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    Yes, especially for speed hackers. Scriptors would require more of an effort.
     
  9. Bomb Bloke

    Bomb Bloke Lore Keeper
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    UOA is very similar to the Voldemort program in how it does it's work; basically, from the server side, it'd be pretty hard to tell which of the two programs a given user is using.

    So, say you're running around in a PvP zone with an illegal script active, one which drinks potions whenever you need them (without you even needing to push a button). The GMs could probably tell if you were running a script (or at least, make a pretty good guess) because the script is using random items in your pack at a rate you couldn't possibly keep up with using the client interface while targeting other players, running around the map, de/re-equiping a shield, etc.

    But you might actually just be running a UOA macro, where the only real difference is that you have to push a single button and keep an eye on your health bar yourself. Which is legal. But from the server side, there'd be no way of knowing which script was which... So they can't just auto-detect script-like behavior, they need to detect script like behavior then verify that the user is AFK.

    (Which they won't be in PvP... So scripting in PvP is not an easy thing to deal with).
     
  10. Sweeney

    Sweeney Guest

    This is good evidence for removing UOA from the approved 3rd party status list. I doubt people would quit UO just because they spent $15 for a program that was never guaranteed to remain usable in UO.
     
  11. drinkbeerallday2

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    banning is dumb. just change all their char to female and name them all Taylor Swift
     
  12. Arch Magus

    Arch Magus Guest

    Taylor Swift!?

    Haaawwwwttttttt:D
     
  13. Nyses

    Nyses Lore Keeper
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    There actually is a limit to the number of lines in a UOA macro. It is something like 60 line items or so, I discovered it when I was lockpicking years ago.
     
  14. AesSedai

    AesSedai Guest

    - That would not be a free solution.

    • It costs time & money, or resources, to utilize the existing GM's for this activity (always has / and will take more of their time to do more).
    • It costs resources to shedule meetings and bureaucratically determine if a Burninator Counter is necessary; and it costs resources if determined it would benefit UO to implement one.
    - On that not, they are losing resources from a lot of legitimate players that have been fed up enough with cheating/hacking to stop paying to play (I've always been in favor of more resources devoted to this. Especially including a small GM task force devoted specifically to this as well as having more tools developed for our official 'UO Police' to use. I've also voiced my opinion in favor of a UO BurnCounter on uo.com &/or the patch screen).
     
  15. We're not talking to you until you give us a better hint as to the location of the fabled bamboo stool. :lick:


    Oh, and I voted "dunno" because I feel there is a lot more to this than a simple "free solution".
     
  16. The Craftsman

    The Craftsman Lore Master
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    No thank you.

    I rather enjoy playing UO. If you ban the cheaters and hackers then there wont be enough subscription paying customers left to make UO viable. We need them.

    Its a sad state of affairs that EA got us into this position but, we are where we are and its too late to do anything about it. And please dont give me the "if cheating was banned more people would return to UO" argument. Some would, but it wouldnt make up for the lost subs from the cheats, and this game needs all the paying subscribers it can get.

    Can I also ask the OP to whom this is FREE? The amount of GM resources that EA would have to commit to make this work would be huge. Its just not feasible I'm afraid.
     
  17. The Craftsman

    The Craftsman Lore Master
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    You dont need a long macro. There is a way to loop UOA macros so you only need a couple of lines to auto repeat the macro. Its not legal but it is undetectable I believe. And before you ask ... no, I dont use it.
     
  18. EnigmaMaitreya

    EnigmaMaitreya Crazed Zealot
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    Look, you want to remove Scripters? The only way your going to get this is to encourage the UOTeam to sell the resources / services directly.

    I will repeat this again, this ... scripting function is a Multi-Billion U.S. Dollar (Annually) Business, across all MMROPG's.

    Just consider were you would prefer the money to go ... To the UOTeam directly to support the Team (payroll), the Hardware, Marketing etc .... or to some Anonymous group.
     
  19. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    And please lets not forget about KR. Those macros-scripting will put uoa out of business they are almost superior to all of the feutures. Hit one button continue to craft all day whithout stopping unless i fail for example as well as users can design there own skins for kr and configurations. And SA will be better.
     
  20. D'Amavir

    D'Amavir Guest

    Maybe. They already said that the 'make all' aspect of KR is no longer there with SA. Yes, they said they were 'trying' to get it in by time of launch. But as it stands now, that aspect is gone.

    I do like the fact that players can design skins and UI's for others to use. That was one of my favorite parts of WoW.
     
  21. ElRay

    ElRay Guest


    Its very sad the level of mediocrity people are willing to accept. Thats whats sad.
     
  22. The Craftsman

    The Craftsman Lore Master
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    Yes it is. But you and everyone else accepts that mediocrity. If you didnt then you would cancel your account until EA did something about it. But you dont. Pot.Kettle. Black.
     
  23. Alezi

    Alezi Lore Keeper
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    Too bad the game is unplayable without UOA..
     
  24. I think it being done by GM decission is a terrible idea given how many errors they make.

    Why don't they write a script to detect the input times for commands and if it follows certain patterns they get blocked. They have a database of all the patterns they need already... you know... on that one website.
     
  25. ElRay

    ElRay Guest

    I shouldnt have to quit the game to voice my displeasure over something that should be taken care of in the first place.
    Sorry that I dont bend over and grab my ankles like you do, wave the white flag, and have a warped point of view that the game is only kept afloat by the population of cheaters.
     
  26. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    Yes.

    I think the 1st wave should be a short suspension (unless the account already has marks) to let people know that they are enforcing it. If after they start enforcing this and they choose to continue to use 3rd party apps... then ban them permanently.

    Id honestly prefer a perma-ban off the start... but can accept how many people who wouldn't otherwise use these things have decided to use them to compete with those that do. (even though using it is all psychological and doesn't really give you an advantage.) I dunno... I think it's been allowed to go on way to long without any policing to just go smite the hammer hard on these people... but after the first initial "hey, we're now enforcing this... let it be known" go ahead and whip out the ban stick and go to town.
     
  27. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    I vote yes. Or any similar tool that lets people know cheaters are being dealt with.

    Not going to be totally free though, but can likely be done without incurring direct monetary costs. A couple of manhours to add a counter to UOHerald, hopefully 1 time effort. Plus at least 1 manhour a day for GMs to go after cheaters with a vengence if this has not been done yet.

    Regarding UOA and the program that shall not be named - while certain features may make it difficult to distinguish between the 2 via automated detection routines, it's very easy to tell when an actual person watches. Esp GMs who have tools to see what the person is doing. UOA macros are alot "dumber" and doesn't cater to changing parameters, cannot auto-move your characters, cannot auto find targets etc, cannot auto drink cure/eat apples exactly 0.1 second after being poisoned/omen'ed.

    As to looping UOA, it's also illegal and even easier to tell.

    To give cheaters the benefit of doubt (or a second chance depending on how you look at it), a 3-strike system on the credit card can be implemented.

    You get flagged once, consider this a warning that your accounts are being watched.

    You get flagged twice, consider this your last warning.

    You get flaged 3 times, sorry pal, you are out.
     
  28. Speaking the Truth

    Speaking the Truth Lore Keeper
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    The problem is if you're not a b rate pvper what you're saying is pretty easy to do. For example you see the words of power for paralyze being cast, you get ready to hit your uoa macro to hit your trap box.

    Chugging pots isn't difficult and I have seen countless people blame others in using a script to do it, as if they can't handle adding 3 keys to uoa and chugging. Saying its easy to distingish is laughable. There are so many players that don't believe someone could accomplish this difficult feat of pressing 3 extra keys.

    In addition what someone already said, gms make too many mistakes to have them ban people because bad players would constantly page on ones that beat them and claim it must be a script, there is no way he can handle pressing those 3 extra buttons!
     
  29. ElRay

    ElRay Guest

    Hallelujah, I concur 100%
     
  30. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    I do want to say that I laugh when people think other people are scripting in PvP. You have to really really suck at PvP to think that it actually gives you an advantage. It's inflexible, it's a pre-programmed response, it's exactly what makes PvM what it is. Exactly what PvP... is NOT.

    And yes, I can press my 'drink cure potion' button the second I'm poisoned. But because I'm NOT using a script, I can NOT eat an apple when someone curses me, but instead... save it for when someone strangles me less than a second later. I can also cast my greater heal spell and drink my cure potion before the cursor comes up so I get not only a cure, but a well placed heal. I can save my potions for when I need them, and use my heal pots only when I need to.

    If you're scripting in PvP, then you're a complete newb. No one who's any good at PvP scripts and anyone who's even semi-decent at PvP will tell you this.
     
  31. The Craftsman

    The Craftsman Lore Master
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    Yes you do. You keep on paying EA when year after year after year they do nothing about cheating. Why should they do anything when people like you pay them regardless. The ONLY way to get EA to do something about it would be to vote with your wallet. Even that might just give them the excuse they need to shut it down rather than fix it.

    Get your head out of the sand and face the facts. Cheating is here to stay and theres sweet FA you can do about it.
     
  32. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Really? I've been playing for years without UOA. Not to forget many many many other players who can play without UOA.
     
  33. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    Yes, UOA has a drink heal and a drink cure function, and you can create a macro to eat apples and hotkey that macro too. I have the same macros set up, plus keys on my G15 to disarm left hand before drinking the pot.

    The people you know may not use scripts due to it's inflexibility and limitation, but can you be sure there aren't any b-rate indecent newbie pvp'rs that does this?

    The tell is actually whether a person can hit the hokeys at 0.1 sec intervals consistently 100% of the time while running around toggling specials/casting spells (I mean at the same instant), and oh I don't know, trying to repeatedly drink potions when they have run out (while casting remove curse at the same time) or have customized messages (different from the UOA message) telling them they have run out of a certain potion. That would be a dead give-away.

    Note that this is just one small part, there are others like checking if players are passing IDs of targets to their guildmates, that are very very easily distinguished and dead giveaways. And of course auto-move farming scripts etc.



    Exactly! This is one way to tell if someone is using a script! So, if you consistently see someone eating an apple after 0.1 sec after being hit by "curse" instead of waiting for the strangle he sees incoming, that's when the GM should look at his action logs and monitor what he is doing.

    If the guy does it a few times, ok, maybe that's how he plays or maybe he is guessing that you are forcing him to exhaust his apples supply and won't cast that stangle until he eats an apple. But if he does it consistently at 0.1 sec intervals after being hit by a low level curse even when he sees someone on his screen casting strangle, and he's doing it at 0.1 sec interval consistently even while running around/casting spells/activating specials - that's cause for GMs to be suspicious.

    Just to clarify, I am not saying to just ban these people directly based on "suspected scripting" when they do this. But rather, GMs still need use the tools they have to monitor the action logs and prove that these people are cheating first. And moreover, it's a 3 strike system.
     
  34. Anakena

    Anakena Seasoned Veteran
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    UOA macroes cannot be chained afk unless you use another program. The problem is that other program used for repeating the macro (you can use it too for repeating UO macroes).

    Of course you can build better macroes in UOA than in UO, but I think without UOA, Uo would have lost tons of people.

    Just take the dress macro (the ability to record your suit and later ask UOA to wear the suit) : without UOA, you have to find, drag and drop each part. For jewels it would be a real nightmare without UOA (when you die, they ALWAYS land somewhere under something else).
     
  35. Arch Magus

    Arch Magus Guest

    I kick ass day and night without it..;)
     
  36. Arch Magus

    Arch Magus Guest

    Yeah it's a pain.
    but it's also only a dozen seconds of "work".

    People don't need UOA, they just want it because it's easy.

    why am I even here?
    *rubs eyes*
     
  37. SchezwanBeefy

    SchezwanBeefy Lore Master
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    Too bad I've never used it.
    The only 3rd party program I used was UO Auto Map only for the map. I've never set a macro except to target last item, but that was an in game macro.
    Would it help me in game? You bet it would. But I'm not about to do something against the rules and get me kicked for scripting. Knowing my luck, I'd be the one person they take down for scripting.
     
  38. SchezwanBeefy

    SchezwanBeefy Lore Master
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    I think the system you've created here is the best system overall. It give those who are cheating the chance to stop and if they're not going to (which I'm sure a lot of them would stop, but I'm sure others will keep trying/try to find something better), then it's time to ban them.
    However, isn't the only thing you need for a new account a new credit card number and email? These cheaters would probably come right back to the game.
     
  39. Alezi

    Alezi Lore Keeper
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    UO is playable without UOA when I can set macros to mouse buttons + wheel straight from the game. Until that happens it's not playable.

    EDIT: I'm talking about a PvPers PoV obviously :p
     
  40. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    I suppose my point is that 'cheating' or scripting for PvP in this case... isn't a smart thing to do. It hinders you more than it helps and if b-rate players wants to 'script PvP' then really... what's the big deal? He/She is a b-rate PvPer and will never be A+ as long as they continue to 'cheat' in this manner. So we should police it just to police it? I would say sure if it didn't seem such a pain to go and 'catch' a PvP scripter... but it is a pain, it's time consuming for a GM to sit there and determine if a player is scripting in PvP... and even then, it's by your own description even, super hard to really tell. - it's a totally wasted effort.

    Since it doesn't even give you an advantage... who the hell really cares. What I'm saying is that, we should not care unless there is an easier way to determine if someone is scripting in PvP.

    Now 'speedhacking' is a different story. Even though it's not that big of a deal in PvP, it should be easy enough to police... so I have no idea why they don't police it.

    my .02 cents
     
  41. ElRay

    ElRay Guest

    Uhhhhhhhh, because thats their job? If I did half the job of MY job description id be fired, as would any other decent company would do to an under-achieving employee.

    Again, why should I have to quit, over something that is as blatant as hacking/cheating/scripting? I shouldnt have to accept cheating like you do. I dont have that low of standards. As you can see I voice my dissent, whereas you agree and go along with cheats. Thats where we differ, you and I.

    You say this game needs cheating and cheaters to keep this game alive and I have my head in the sand???

    Classic, just classic. If cheating is EVER going to get taken care of in this game, it doesnt need people like you helping, thats for sure.
     
  42. Pindershot

    Pindershot Guest

    I'm in the "too costly to implement" camp.
     
  43. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    For all things holy!! You don't know what you missing. iF you don't want to use uoassit then at least use kr. Set up macros and indulge in the happiness that it will bring you. Without such abiities uo is only 10% of it's potential.
    Either way try it and I promise you, you wil have a new perspective of uo.
    This goes for anybody not using uoassist or kr macros to play this game.
     
  44. Laina

    Laina Sage
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    You lost me here...

    Isn't this part of what GM's already do? We, as players, see someone we think is scripting/hacking/cheating and page a GM. Last I heard, people were still getting at least temp bans for cheating. Supposedly, you get a couple of temp bans and then 3rd time you are perma-banned.
     
  45. The Craftsman

    The Craftsman Lore Master
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    Its NOT going to get taken care of in this game. Not EVER. 11 years down the line and you really think they are going to do something about it now? If so then you are truly deluded.
     
  46. Mook Chessy

    Mook Chessy Certifiable
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    I need to agree, EA has made it clear that they could care less about almost anything that happens in game.

    Regarding scripting, I have listened to many great pvpers talk about their dump script in vent, one key cast 4/5 spells Explod/OMEN/FS/PS. something like that. You can tell when the Mage never changes it up, this give me no problems

    Speedhacking is a different story, we have all seen the char on foor who is as fast as a mounted players or the best, the char that can cast 7th level spells and still catch you on a full run
     
  47. Speaking the Truth

    Speaking the Truth Lore Keeper
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    A dump script? You can't script pvp like that.. If you disrupt a spell it would mess up the entire combo. I don't believe that any "credible" pvpers use anything like what you're saying.

    As for the whole faster on foot than on mount this is just untrue completely. I had my friend use something to speed him up(he was on foot) vs me on mount. In addition I was on the oppsite coast where I ping worse and he pings low. I was still almost twice as fast as him.

    Am I saying speedhacks don't exist? No. However no one is faster on foot than you are on mount. I tested on the other coast where I ping 100 vs his 30. I think the problem stems from maybe you're a dexer who has trouble vs a target on foot who isn't just running in a straight line, and perhaps you blame it on hacks becuase you can't catch them? Or maybe you call it being on foot when someone has animal form? This is the only thing I could come up with, no one is faster on foot than you are on mount.
     
  48. Gellor

    Gellor Guest

    Without foolproof method of proving someone is doing something illegal, no way.

    EA/OSI has proven too many times over the years they couldn't catch a cheater even if the cheater were dead at their feet with a sign that said "I was cheating in UO".:coco:

    Have they caught cheaters... sure but at the same time they have also nailed innocent people. They do the carpet bomb technique of catching people: throw a "bomb", everyone that is under the area of the "bomb" MUST have been cheaters.:coco:

    They've banned accounts over accidental using of bugs... you know, the use it once and say "oh @#%#". A good example of that is the evil token "dupe" that happened. Anyone that used the dupe more than two or three times got banned. And lord knows, when people start customizing a house, they do it a LOT of times.
     
  49. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    LOL
     
  50. ElRay

    ElRay Guest

    Please. 11 years is exaggerating. I would say the last 2-3 years it REALLY has gone downhill. They USED TO take care of crap like this, back when their was credible UO employees, who knew how to do their job properly.