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(Player News) From the EM Moderaors Site

Discussion in 'UO Europa' started by Bobar, Jul 17, 2013.

  1. Bobar

    Bobar Babbling Loonie
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    EM Event] The Godfather Death
    Please visit coming Sunday the 21th of July at 19:30 BST/GMT (20:30 CET) the EM hall!
     
  2. Shakkara

    Shakkara Slightly Crazed
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    Thanks for posting it here.
     
  3. R Traveler

    R Traveler Babbling Loonie
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    I tried to wake our news reporter yesterday without success.
     
  4. Mapper

    Mapper Crazed Zealot
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    :p I saw your icq thank you. And thank you Bobar for beating me to it. :D Sounds like an intriguing event.
     
  5. Adol

    Adol Certifiable
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    I'm sorry, but this was the worst event I've seen on Europa in all my years of participating. So much so that for the first time ever, I am pondering an official complaint.

    For those who didn't understand what was happening, and that was many, so very many of you, here is the basic outline. There were 10 Torches locked down in Peerless Boss rooms across both facets, 5 in Trammel, 5 in Felucca. Except only one person could take it when you got there, as it was set as a Stealable. Yes, you had to be a Thief, so even before it began, the vast majority of those involved who weren't part of a clearly favoured minority had no hope of reward.

    Now, I arrived late so I can't describe how the event started; what I can state however is that the EM was not in Event chat as Europa is set up traditionally to join, and that there are still books scattered around the hall telling them to do... later he would state he'd mentioned before he would be in General instead, and apologised if that was not clear. But it was no use for many people who were thus left completely in the dark because he didn't go to the assumed channel. What was worse was that the insane greed of people also kicked in, and no one was telling each other much of what they'd found out at all either. However, whilst the event was going on, he would return to the Councillors Hall briefly; but he completely ignored the roleplayers to joke around with the usual potty mouths and braggards instead. I'll be as fair as possible and state perhaps he didn't understand some of the roleplayers, especially those who roleplay with a "lisp"... but no effort was made to explain what was supposed to be happening locally either until it was almost time to go.

    And then what happens? He starts broadcasting in General the locations, which would be fine except... some are in Felucca remember? Thus ensuring the majority of the player base quickly dropped out because they expect waiting gank squads. It was a complete misunderstanding of the Europa community; there aren't many large guilds left, even fewer who are interested in PvP. Now... I actually am part of one of the largest alliances. Do you know what my experience was? After I worked out what was supposed to be happening, and passed what I could on in Event and General, I went to go farm Paroxymus keys for the alliance members there. It took an hour to do as they were dropping insanely slowly for everyone it seems. So slowly the EM finally gave up and just left us too it. What a fantastic end to the evening. Who could possibly have guessed it would take more than 3 hours to get 10 different sets of Peerless keys when people weren't even sure that was the target in the first place? But I managed to get all 3 keys myself from the slimes. Well done me. Except... oho ho ho, I don't have a thief. I passed them to one of our guild members, they immediately ran out of the Trammel Paroxymus over to Fel, and whilst I tried to get a Putrifier off my greater dragon so I didn't trail it across the entire dungeon, and I could swap characters and join them; but they'd already got the thief the torch before I'd even got across the river-tunnel.

    Currently, debate seems to be that the torch is worth somewhere perhaps as high as 500m. And despite earning all the keys, I wouldn't even have SEEN it unless Europa Trader posted a link in general chat to it;

    [​IMG]

    Whilst half the squad were idly kill the Fel Paroxy just for the sake of it, someone announced they'd gotten the Trammel one too. Had they? The EM had given up as well so there couldn't be any confirmation. But as only a Thief can have it anyway, why bother?

    Do you know what the next announced event will be? It's a PvP competition apparently. Hence why I'm still fuming so much I'm considering that official complaint. The playstyle bias is now blatantly obvious. There was the usual trolling from halfwits at the event about what the purpose of them is; and it's not about rewarding a particular sub group above all else. There was literally no new content at all except locking down a single item for a Thief to collect at Peerless rooms.

    And look; I'll even be completely fair... he may have been overworked; it's a completely false economic saving to reduce all the EMs down to 1 per shard (bar for Atlantic). Yes, that's what I've heard is the actual plan. We are getting just one official EM not two back. And one may not be enough to run events completely and efficiently, and thus end up driving more away. Maybe we were asking too much of our stand in EM.

    BUT EVEN SO, that doesn't excuse atrocious event design, where you can't work out what's happening if you try and join in; where you can't take part unless you know plenty of people; where even if you got a group, they may not treat you honestly.... At least one group I heard of that was set up in the Councillors Hall at the start of the event had those who worked out the Peerless part ask them to stay behind "for now" out of pure greed, and left them sitting about for 2 hours not doing anything. And there can be no excuse at all for a drop like the above that only one skill set can take. NONE AT ALL. And the next one being designed for an equally minority interest again is just outrageous.

    Mythic needs to SERIOUSLY reconsider halving the EMs. And they need to hurry up and hire someone who knows the Europa community and can provide full time, dedicated service. I gather the EM today was going to help with the Governor redecoration soon; but that's not enough... not when the soul of the server is being further ripped out by atrocious events such as today's.
     
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  6. Wizal the Fox

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    Well, I liked the event. The EM clearly stated at the beginning that you needed a thief in the team to steal the lights. So I immediately logged on mine. Fox is one of my favorite chars but I can rarely use his amazing 875 skills abilities, so I'm glad for once he was basically the best char for the event and got the torch.
    Sadly I'm too honest (even for a thief) so I had to sell the torch so we could share across the team. Too bad... I liked that item...
     
  7. Europa Trader

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    I liked the event, as it was. It is nice to see something else on Europa that has been in the past. Also this event favoured the Thiefs, next event favours another group of players. Rather than in the past favourtism has been towards one specific group of players, now its mixed up a bit. Also remember this EM is just filling in until Europa gets their own EM. Some things might not work out, but at least they get tried. I have seen far worse event in the past on Europa, and I don't like the group/party events myself, but this is still MMORPG and not single player, even tho many might have a loner playing style. Like me :)
    All information was given in the beginning of the event, only thing was that some people already picked teams or was there with guilds so they got a headstart while others was still trying to figure out who to be in party with. I partied it up with some people, took us some time to get keys, after that a few left and we went in to find out the tourch already been gotten. Then some decided they rather do the peerless boss instead of just trying elsewhere.

    The EM left in the end, well lets not forget, they have a schedule and hours they work. They do not get overtime, and should an EM expect players not being able to to that in 2 hours or less. Looking at the amount of players attended it should be possible. Remember, it was basicly get the keys, get in and steal the tourch, then you could go out.

    I seen many times at events on several shards including Europa where things that was planned did not go well at all, but EMs learn they try things, and if people really are upset, I'm sure they can apply to become EM and try and do a better job. Can't please everyone, so give it some time. Let the EM try some events that might be for other communities or playingstyle than it has been in the past.

    I'm sure that the EM would like, if anyone has some suggestions for events or maybe some feedback just send him a message.
     
  8. Wizal the Fox

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    Overall there were 2 things that were not that good I think:
    - Since peerless keys are alive for 7 days now, some people obviously had some keys before the event even started.
    - The EM beeing new to Europa, he did not know that events usually use a dedicated channel to talk, so he used general chat. I know that many people were in fact not logged on general chat so didn't get the EM messages during the event
     
  9. The Mule

    The Mule Journeyman
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    My guild was at Fel Prox near the end. The EM showed up and said it was still in there and that he was done for the evening. We finally got the keys and when we went in the torch was not there. To say the least we were frustrated. Now reading Adols post its more frustrating if it was gotten earlier on and he led us to believe it was still in there. We did however manage to get the Doom and Fel Meli before the end of it. It did take a bit of work to get the keys, but it was a fun event none the less.

    Not every event should be set up so that everyone wins, and I like the idea of having to recruit X type player to be effective. Since this event was set up to be a team event I do wish however the team got an item and not just the special character. We decided to roll for the 2 torches at the end.
     
  10. Morgana of Monglow

    Morgana of Monglow Journeyman

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    I "can" understand those who complain about only one item was released while an entire team worked for it. What i can't understand is : the EM stated really CLEAR at start on what to do, what's required and so on. Till the last torch i was reading "what's next ? What to do now ? While the Em told all of us, using also the general chat, bout locations, how many torches were left etc etc.

    But please let me say something and try to not get me wrong :

    WE, EUROPA players, we did the event. Thieves had those shiny and bluish torches and to ? To sell, maybe, to Atlantic ppl ?

    So we did all the stuff for nothing but some money ? Not a "flag", sort of Event remembering for the Server and his population? Not something to remember : Hey, i was there !

    I'm sorry but this was, is, and always will be totally OUT for me.

    I have a HIGH skilled thief character but i played with my tamer-mage and only did melisandre, once. Then i left to make room for someone else ( guildies ofc ).

    Still, i'm happy 'cause i was part of the stuff. Because my goal is to have fun ( trying to ) doin something with my guildies / friends. The bunch o' pixels (aka item(s)) doesn't matter for me.

    But that's me.

    Morgana
     
    #10 Morgana of Monglow, Jul 22, 2013
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2013
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  11. callum_fitzhugh

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    Interesting.

    I did raise my eyebrows a few times last night and was genuinely surprised at the event design. Being positive I thought it was a brave gesture to blatantly base an event on just getting items which are going to be valuable and only gettable by one class who would HAVE to work as part of a team. So the team gets the reward but who gets to keep it? I have to hand it to the EM for having a go at this. I can see those who like event items either loving this or hating it. It was different though and cudos to the EM for having a go.

    As to whether it was clear what to do I am not entirely sure on that but the EM did speak in chat but maybe Europa players are more used to the Event Channel being used.

    I was surprised at how well most players behaved during the Godfather Death story which the EM told via UO Wedding or something. I liked the story [you can find it here if you missed it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godfather_Death ] and thought it was a nice touch. It was a good excuse for an event. I liked that. Whether there is a place for God and the Devil in UO lore is another matter for nit-pickers to decide on.

    For a stand in event to keep Europa going overall I think it was different and brave to run it. I had expected more negative reaction here as I can see both sides of this one. I didn’t have any weapons or armour on me and would have tagged along at the back if it had been a "traditional" EM led event or role-played a bit but the event design wasn’t for me [but no complaints as I have said I wasn’t even equipped].

    My constructive criticism would be that the RPC Professor Grimm literally popped up and started off on his story without an introduction to who he was or why he was there. I know Iljian tried to rp with him but I could see that not working as Iljians character talks with a lisp. And the EMs first language clearly isn’t English so I couldn’t see that working well =)
    So please Professor Grimm maybe we can have a short rp event to find out more about you?

    One thing I didn’t like [and I am a purist] is when the RPC spoke OOC in brackets to explain something about a German real life game and also when he pointed a player to a UO guide website – I would prefer that was done privately or in General chat =) [But again the EM was trying to help us out so good one =) ]
     
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  12. Shakkara

    Shakkara Slightly Crazed
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    Totally inexcusable that so many people were excluded from participating in this event.

    Don't like that he took a real-world german story instead of fabricating something new that fit UO lore (like something not including God and the Devil).

    Hated how he then introduced Phex (thief god from another game's setting) into UO.

    Go home and never come back.
     
  13. Europa Trader

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    Very rude post there, how many times has there not been stuff that does not fit UO Lore, to many to even be counted. We still celebrate different holidays in UO and EMs also plan things there.

    I hope the EM will stay until Europa will get their own EM, but I hope the one we get is as good as the one that is standing in now. Make events for everyone, if you actually looked at a some of the stories some of them are mainly from DnD and just changed a bit to fit into UO. But easy to dislike something that might seem different, but has been going on for years. Maybe not on Europa, but on other shards. Good that Europa finally has some change in events.

    But I guess you rather have no Events, if they do not fit you. I'm sure the EM can go back to do it on Drach only again, and Europa can just keep going without an EM until one has been chosen.
     
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  14. Bobar

    Bobar Babbling Loonie
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    Well to be fairly brief this is the first time in my years of doing events that I have been disappointed. I have no problems with the story (relevant or otherwise) but at the end spent at least 10 minutes without a clue as to what we were supposed to do. References to the fact that there is no light in the Abyss didn't make me think there would be nothing there just left me wondering what we were to do there. It would prob have helped if Event Chat had been used as we are used to but AFAIK none of the party we formed knew or were using General. It could have been a good event for me as Sparrow is a thief but as things were he might as well have been a Tailor. I will allow for the fact that the EM was just filling in for our lack of one but his probably established (on Drach) method was certainly foreign to what we are used to. It seems we have a division between those who were happy and those who were not. I fit quite comfortably in the latter group.
     
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  15. Shakkara

    Shakkara Slightly Crazed
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    Holidays and such might not be ideal but I don't really object to them that much as long as they try to fit them into the UO theme as much as possible. Taking stuff from other games or books is not only just lazy, it's also questionable due to intellectual property rights, which means we can't really play with that sort of material on a larger scale. If it is too hard to come up with new content that fits the UO lore, perhaps they simply aren't the right person for the job, as being an EM requires creativity first and foremost and some game design skills secondly. This aspect was also quite lacking, as the EM didn't seem to understand the consequences of his actions when he determined how the items would be distributed.

    On the other hand I do like how one particular group of players was excluded: itemcampers from other shards. So that part of it wasn't bad.

    No events are always better than terribly frustrating events that are a total waste of time and still make me extremely angry due to poor design the day after.
     
  16. Jonathen

    Jonathen Sage
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    Well, my tuppen'orth as well I guess:

    This event was incredibly frustrating, but also more inventive than many I've attended in the past, and the sense of achievement in finding a torch counted for more than if the whole group got a trinket.

    The story at the start dragged a bit for me, and I admit Relem gave some grief regarding the use of 'God', 'earth' etc. Nice idea though, something shorter & more UO-themed might have worked well.

    I avoid using chat even during events, don't mind if that makes it more challenging, but am disappointed if fairly crucial information is passed that way. Fortunately I have guildmates who relay that information. Teaming up requirement could have been announced in advance, for the sake of those who don't have immediate access to a trusted group, but I've been to group-oriented events before and joining people on the spot wasn't a big issue - does require more assistance from the EM though to make sure no-one's left out.

    Ultimately, it was hard work for little/no tangible reward - but that doesn't make it a bad event. Think I'd like to see more on the theme of a puzzle/challenge for the sake of it, not for a chance of an item. Only thing that really would have improved it for me is a more defined end point, I quite enjoy running around not really knowing why, but if it seems like I'll be doing it for hours I start to lose interest ;)
     
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  17. Adol

    Adol Certifiable
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    As far as I know, it was collected a few minutes after the EM left; I could get a "latest time" it was there by from the chat log, but frankly I'm too disgusted to check. You wouldn't have seen people farming keys as I got them all Trammel side, and then some of the alliance would have just gone flying past you straight to Fel Paroxy. And left the two of us who'd help get the keys behind.

    I am however not exactly sympathetic to you, The Mule; you got two out of ten torches, and are frustrated that even with odds so stacked in your favour you couldn't get a third? At present in Europa Trade someone is asking for a Felucca Castle for his torch, and someone else is prepared to give him one for it. You thus earned roughly around 600m last night alone, 900m had you got a third, and that no one but a thief could have any chance of at all.... And people think that's fair? And I'm also frankly staggered people are so blasé about events that make people work all evening, with poor communication, to reward a very narrow set of players with absolutely no chance of anyone else getting one.

    Whether you had fun or not is quite beyond the point. Any event which gets one of the pillars of the community, and I'm not referring to myself but someone you'd all likely know, "spitting nails" in ICQ to me afterwards and within an inch of closing her account outright is an absolute disaster. Any event which has half the participants waiting in the Councillors Hall because they don't have a clue what is happening, or have been abandoned by greedy teams, is a disaster. Any event where the EM doesn't have the sense to just ask at the start of the event what channel people normally use... is a self inflicted disaster. If I can pop from channel to channel and try and keep the public informed, I expect the EM to do so too. These events should be about COMMUNITY, giving people a sense of engagement with the true heartbeat of the game, their fellow players... the result, even if you managed to work out what was happening, and found people you thought you could trust, was to encourage colossal greed and the resulting bitterness is... a... disaster. Yes, it's easy to say now the result should have been a team reward; BUT THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN SPOTTED AT THE DESIGN PHASE.

    Here's some similar designs we can consider for future EM events;

    * The players are sent to gather resources for a mystical spell that will put the power of the Umlaut automatically over everyone's words, and thus ward away Evil; It turns out the ingredients must be baked into a cake, that only 10 GM cooks present at the event can make, and then they get to keep the cake. The cakes crackle with fireworks effects not found elsewhere in game.

    * The players must all go to Felucca and fight PvPers as living embodiments of blót to the PvP gods. After an evening being destroyed, made to feel incompetent, and dry looted if their insurance runs out, the top 10 PKs who actually kill the most of the roleplayers is rewarded. With let's say a Skull Pole renamed to something Teutonic, and when used triggers the Corgul explosion or the Crimson Dragon flash that still occasionally crashes the EC.

    * The players attend an Oktoberfest, for no apparent reason, and then are gotten so drunk they are all forcibly married against their will to each other inside the Wedding Chapel. However, only the female players that are sexiest to the EM are rewarded with rings that mannequins and vendors can equip, which shoot nearby players with cupid arrow effects. Everyone else just has to put up with loveless marriages, or find a way to shoehorn divorce laws into medieval Britannia.

    * The players go to find the Hooby Jooby birds again... a happy time in EM roleplay past for all on Europa. Except this time they're not just renamed chickens, but bright red Greater Chickens with the stats of a Greater Dragon, mysteriously all named Richtofen, and with the Beetle "Subdue" code. The players help beat down the dragons, and then the tamers get to tame them...

    That last by the way? That's technically illegal, EMs aren't allowed to gift unique pets. Hence why I deliberately drew the parallel... They're all terrible events. But they are also all identical to the one we just experienced, except for the sarcastic phrasing. Every one involves a pre-determined winner, with a reward which requires other people to sacrifice themselves and their playing time for you to get it, with an item which has considerable worth due to both uniqueness and decorative application.

    And the second suggested one is going to be the next EM event. It's a PvP tournament that the stand in EM seemed to think we'd all be attending. You're not going to though, are you? Which is the only reason it won't be an equal disaster; that is, until people find out whether there was some other stupidly over-desirable limited drop or not.

    As I say... I'm frankly staggered there could be any divided opinion on this. It's not a question of the EMs personal qualities or not; put your goodwill to him to one side and look at the actual facts... the event did not, and cannot work on Europa. Indeed, someone inside the EM hall said, as we all just sat around not knowing what to do, putting trash talkers on ignore and trying to filter out bragging from one guild they'd already done what the EM said wasn't done whilst asking for personal rewards... "It didn't work on Drachenfels when you tried it there either!" ... It was just atrociously designed and appallingly operated.

    Campaign for both Emile and Adris being replaced as soon as possible.
     
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  18. The Mule

    The Mule Journeyman
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    Just the bold part, I don't do events to get an item to sell. When I do get an item it goes in my collection. If you're going to the event just to get an item to see how much you can sell it for then you are sadly missing the best part of the event.

    Let me catch you up. The EM showed up and talked for a bit, told a story,( its out there you can find the script) about a thief... He then said there items of light were placed in both tram in fel in hard to get places in the hardest part of the dungeons. There were no lights in the Abyss. You would need a team that included a thief. My guild had 4 players on, to include one with a thief. We quickly recruited an additional 6 that didn't have anyone as to give everyone a shot that we could.

    Players were able to gather the first ones quickly, in fact the first one was found within minutes. We got the Doom one within 15 minutes. Within the first hour he was giving the locations of the ones still not collected. You cant blame him for talking in gen chat and not event chat, this isnt his shard and was perhaps doing it the way he does it on his.

    I didnt end up with one, one of my guildmates did, the other went to someone my guild recruited at the beginning to make a party of 10. We all rolled for the two at the end. I would have loved to rolled for a 3rd. Sorry it was not a cookie cutter, run here, click this, kill that, get reward. I hope to see more events like this in the future.

    There have been a lot of events where those that do the greatest damage to monster X gets a drop. There was never any complaint for those events. What about the pure thief that have no fighting skill? They would never do as much damage as a tamer or thrower sammy. Or events where just anyone that did damage gets a random chance, what about those that show up as a healer.


    I disagree! That is the entire point! Not everyone is going to like the event. But some are. If an EM runs events like this, then a PVP, then click here for reward, I think he would be doing a good job and would cover a lot more players likes.
     
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  19. Adol

    Adol Certifiable
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    As do I... which anyone who knows me should know. I've been to enough events, haven't you noticed me roleplaying or sitting at the back healing and ressurecting people for the last 3 years? What, have I suddenly become a different person? That people are now forgetting who the people they even play with actually are because of the distortive effects of the event design and the financial rewards involved should already be raising red flags in people's minds.

    I know. I happen to catch up very quickly, which is why I was able to get involved in the hunt at the time, despite being an hour late, and why my snark in this thread later involved inappropriate German connections for events. Lovely for me, not so lovely to the poor sods left behind in the Councillors Hall who just got the roleplay elements and than an uncommunicative EM. I even said why he might have been so; EA expects 1 EM to do the work of 2 now.

    I simply stated that to remain accurate in my reporting. I didn't see the explanation. I had access to personal skills and wider social resources that allowed me to catch up. Most did not. Indeed some where left behind deliberately by their teams in the rush for financial profit.

    Yes I can. All he had to do is ask what was easiest for his new community. Or alternatively;

    [​IMG]

    I don't know about you, but when I go places, I ask if they'd like me to take my shoes off before I go in, and then I pay attention to the decoration when I'm in there...

    Except it was a cookie cutter event. The mechanics of it were literally "Spawn > Stealable > Peerless Room" . Which for the players involved going to dungeons and mindlessly killing the creatures for the keys, and then "Click this, Thief gets reward". Good luck doing that if you were a crafter. Good luck doing that if you were a healer even; the randomizing Top 10 Damage/Healer code doesn't apply to a stealable.

    That you honestly can make that argument without the slightest amount of awareness as to what actually happened at the event we both attended is astounding; I know why, you were able to successfully take part; and winners usually do think the game was fairer than it really was. But really, you can't see that the only EM created content was spawning an item in peerless rooms?

    Except there was. Which is why the code was modified recently to include healer support in fact. There have been complaints about this for years. Complaints I also agreed with, because I am viscerally against unfairness in game experience. This is also why the "Royal Investigator" system has been created. Have you been following that? You just needed to write reports in the most part, and any character can do that... And that in turn is because EMs have been trying to widen out the involvement in events for everyone.

    What indeed. Again, that you can't see the problem with hypothetical events which were actuallly MORE open to other characters, than this one which rewarded ONE SPECIFIC template, and only one with a social network in game they could rely upon, is once more... well, I'm running out of words for how unbelievable it is. And again, you seem to be unaware that the Healing code has been in for months. I know I was rewarded more in the last few months than ever before simply for playing as I always had, sending pets in then standing back to heal and resurrect people. I couldn't outdamage the Sammies or Throwers (Tamers haven't been dominant in PvM for well over the 3 years I've been back)... but I certainly have been outhealing everyone for years.

    Except the game is now on life support, and if you infuriate everyone but those who enjoyed a specific event, by the time you get to the 3rd, or 4th event there won't be anyone left to come to them and EA will have decided to pull the plug long before.

    So let's go back to the start again; I'm not interested in the item. Do you know what my experience of the event was? Agonized ICQs from close friends that the cut-throat nature of the event was upsetting them, followed by later as the details started to emerge, and people heard what their teams should have been explaining to them was, as well as the actual ending and final item's availability was, absolute disgust and the desire to leave the game entirely.

    Then, because I posted just a sample of that disgust, I've been bombarded with pointless drama off game and in PMs on these forums... some of which came from simply mentioning that there were people upset by actions taken in the heat of the moment, and justifying involvement in a set up which encouraged cut-throat competition between teams.

    And having no, absolutely no introspection or awareness at all that this isn't good for the health of the game.

    I'm not interested in the money, in game or out. I'm not interested in racing my "friends" to get to an item before they do. I'm not interested in passive aggressive justifications for why I was right to do that. I'm interested in making the game better for all involved. And this event absolutely, completely failed to do that. It actually made a lot of my friends hate Ultima Online, and it's made me even less interested in paying any attention to it when even the good I've done for friends and community is so rapidly forgotten in the desire to get to event's end. I was there passing information in chat to everyone, in both channels, and I was an hour late. Do people not even remember that?

    No, I look at what it's done to people I know, and how disconnected from reality the arguments people are making to justify what they've become are, and frankly I and many people like me don't want to take part any more. At least if they'd made Alaster the temporary EM, we'd be light heartedly joking about rare Pants, and the community would be together still. That to me is worth far, far more than events like this.

    It used to be to most of you too.
     
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  20. Wanda of DCi

    Wanda of DCi Visitor

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    First, I would like to thank the EM; I appreciate them pulling double duty while the search for Europa's new EM continues. Second, I would like to congratulate those who were able to take part in, and complete this event.
    That being said, any event where the "winners" are predetermined is poor design. Any event that causes arguing amongst the community is bad for the game overall. Any event that causes friends, groupmates, guildmates or alliance members to alienate, step-on or exclude eachother simply because the event encourages greed should never have been tried in the first place but, more importantly should never be tried again.

    In addition to what I've stated, I agree with Adol on all the points he so clearly put forth above.
     
  21. Alaster The Insane

    Alaster The Insane Journeyman
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    and aron is wrong : i'd do a bad EM, even temporary.

    But... i agree with him.

    An event which divides community as that one, which shows the worst part of people i love... Well, i can't say it's a successful one.
    Oh yeah sure, people like europa trader loves that, he could cross shard items as usual for a lot of bucks, and, if he hasn't got the item, he buys it and sells overpriced. Yeah, cool.

    You all forgot we're on UO for one thing : playing a game, and having fun. Anyway, i may seem anarchist on that point of view but... when money is involved, virtual or not, it can kill the best friendship.

    It's not the pixel crack we're going for. Wake up people. If you play UO for that, then realize the 1M gp price rate went to 30/40$ to less than 1$ in few years. When i see one torch been sold for 1 billion, i wonder where all the people saying "ahah UO is fun" went.
    Wake up. Wake up please.

    I don't blame the EM. He tried something, it didnt work. I blame... those reactions.

    Undies stealing may be boring to some, seem old after a while. I agree, and i should renew my jokes. But that doesnt withdraw the fact.... we here for fun. Bad jokes, but getting together and having fun.
    I'm on UO for playing a game. A game ! i don't care about money, some of you may have already seen those "omg alaster is mad operations", where i give 1M check for people handing me a pair of pants at luna.

    Wake up guys. Than event was clearly, and the outcome proves it, poorly thinked. It was evident such things would wake the worst even in the better people. That's why i been afk quickly, and didnt care about that pixel crack.


    To me... UO is way more than that.
     
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  22. Morgana of Monglow

    Morgana of Monglow Journeyman

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    Ppl missed what "having fun" while playing a game and WHY we play a game is.
    So we don't deserve another Em here, on Europa. We already have those who whine 24/day while fighting pvp.
    Does we need more entertainment ?
    Nah.

    You, Alaster, you're totally right Sir.
     
  23. Europa Trader

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    You play the game in the way that you enjoy it, I play it in a way I enjoy it. A lot of people enjoy collecting these items, a lot of people enjoy attending events for fun and a lot do it just for items.
    If you want to keep items from events on Europa that is your choice, I rather see the items in some of the Museums of the big collectors, so people can see it, rather than just hidden away. But I do not only have chars on one shard, I attend rares fest, I communicate with rare collectors, traders, players from many different shards. You might be amazed what is outside of Europa shard, everyone can buy and sell items if they want. Maybe attend a few events around on other shards, and see how it is, make a char on a Asian shard try talking with the players there. Like I said we enjoy the game in different ways.

    I'm happy to see that Europa has a standin EM, that actually does something new. There was item drop, that was great, also for players who might want to make some gold. If you want the items to stay on Europa, you can buy them if you like.
     
  24. Shakkara

    Shakkara Slightly Crazed
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    Only if you have enough gold. I now have 500k gold and never had more than 60 mil in my entirity of playing UO.
     
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  25. Morgana of Monglow

    Morgana of Monglow Journeyman

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    Well said Hotep !
     
  26. Raze(tmg)

    Raze(tmg) Journeyman
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    hi there not been on here for a while but id like to put my side of what has gone on with adols post acros since part of your group used my used MY thief to do the event
    right for a start i see that with your post u seems to think this was a plan to basically get the item for there self ?
    right ill put a few coment acroos adol:-
    1- u cannot take tamers in proxy due to the proxy leaching off the pets
    2- lack of comunication between the party since they had to use other chars to do it

    thats end of them and id really ask why people post this on here rather than actualy logging on there char rather than just for events and talk to the people involed??
    thxs
    raze
    ps adol why dont u log on and talk about whats gone on
     
  27. Europa Trader

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    If you got an event item and sold it then you would have a lot of gold. Basicly the econom of Europa compared to other shards, is bad because people did not get event items to sell and because not much competition in the past from any traders
     
  28. Alaster The Insane

    Alaster The Insane Journeyman
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    Yeah perfect ET. You're talking about economy, while, the.. "left sane people" are talking about fun.
    I don't think we talk about the same thing.
    Oh yeah, sure, spending 1b to you for an item, or getting it (bargain or not) and selling it overpriced is cool to you.

    Well. If you'd really been an Europa settler, you'd know this, as we all event attending people, something like that, bro, we, sorry, find it smells a lot.
    I repeat. 1b man. Did you.. wonder there are small players not gathering more than 1M of their bank boxes and suits ?
    Do you understand such things aren't only stupid, but killing UO as we know it ?
    Do you understand there are people like me here to have fun, and hating the gp monger you are ?
    Do you understand that event divided a bunch of people which are less than the crabs itching my balls ?
    If yes, you can get back talking to me. If not, the cocoon of my drunkness will tell you "you smell" if you try to access it.
     
  29. Alaster The Insane

    Alaster The Insane Journeyman
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    i see that, it drives me mad.
    There are two conceptions here : event items for money, and...
    events items cause it's an emotionnal care.

    I guess, no wait, i'm sure... the second option is mongbat pee to you. If you ever remember what a mongbat is.
     
  30. Morgana of Monglow

    Morgana of Monglow Journeyman

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    We don't waste RL cash to buy "in game" currency ( a.k.a gp ) , that's why we are poor and a bad shard on economy even if there are some players who work for a certain website who sell goodies, or are involved with it. This makes a big hole from "normal" players and who's billionaire. How many players we actually have, who play since upto 10 years ? And how many of them farm gp doing hunt and so on ?

    Because it's more than clear to me : gathering one billion isn't 5 min work. And even if you're one of top crafter o' the shard, you don't sell 1 top-quality sampire or pvp mage suit at day.

    Last but not least i totally agree ( yes, once again ) with Alaster bout event item = emotional care. But stuff prices gone MAD since gold seller(s) and traders . That's why who get something valuable tend to sell it.

    But this kill the game. Enuff said.
     
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  31. Alaster The Insane

    Alaster The Insane Journeyman
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    ET : stop arguing, your point is no match. You're one of the persons who wasted europa economy, and you try to save the not defendable.
    Oh, sure, AoS wasted economy, SE was a waste, SA brought alternate regs farming which did harm... but you, people like you. You should have a bit of introspection. Cause you did way more harm to us.
     
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  32. Shakkara

    Shakkara Slightly Crazed
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    This is a bit of a contradiction here, isn't it?

    Many people want to keep the event items that we get on the shard.
    Many people don't have the gold to buy the few items that we get.
    You now tell us "well you don't have the gold, because you didn't have enough event items to sell"

    Yeah, makes total sense to me.

    I tell you what, I got ONE event item from all these events. It was a alchemy kit or something. Then the shard crashed, and when I logged back in, the item was gone.

    The event was replayed next day. But because it was now known that an item would drop, dozens of players in high end suits from other shards came over. It was a total lag fest and at the end I had died countless times as I couldn't move out of the acid pools and I didn't even get looting rights on the boss monster. I don't think any Europa players got the event item that day.
     
    #32 Shakkara, Jul 27, 2013
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2013
  33. Alaster The Insane

    Alaster The Insane Journeyman
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    Shakkara : bringing common sense since 15 years.

    Oh, and, for the record : i never had an event item apart the clickies one.
     
    #33 Alaster The Insane, Jul 28, 2013
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2013
  34. Europa Trader

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    Since a lot of people do not know how much the economy is based on the event items these days, it will not really make sense.
    Look at asian shards, for many years they NEVER got event items, because it was counselors who ran the events, and at most they got was a click (vending machine item) that actually ran for over 12 hours. So there was so many items there. Many asian players like other players on other shards, did not have a lot of gold. But they got the EM programs, they started getting a lot more event items, many players there are now a lot richer, even if you think they sell their items, they might be able to buy other items they rather like. But they also had a lot of players coming over and buy items when they are there anyway, so extra gold for players on their shards.

    Europa did not get many real event items, and most players there where happy with it. Because then the "greedy" players and xsharders did not come and attend the events. But game has change so much, with Shard Shields, it is a lot easier for players to transfer items and PS and all that they need on each shard to make chars for events there. So now they do it more often than before. but also because there is a lot more gold in it if they get an item.

    I make my gold trading, if people do not want to sell me items its up to them. I do not buy for myself, if I buy an event item today, its because a collector asked me to try and buy one for them. If people want the most gold for their items, they should always post it on stratics. If people are happy with what I pay, then I'm happy. For me it goes both ways, if people need items, a few people can get some items at what I paid and others will have to pay what I would like for the items. But in the end I trade and I need to make profit, if people want something that they can not find other places, they can ask, and I will ask around. I got a few special items for people who has been looking for the items for some time. I even still look for [First Edition] Books for someone else.
    But what Alaster has not figured out yet, is that most of my gold that I make, also in cases stays on Europa to be used there. If you actually look at people who figured out how to make a lot of profit these days, its kindda simple. Buy a lot of lvl 6-8 T-Maps and get some Pardons scrolls or buy the Forged Pardons. Take it to ATL sell it for double or tripple as much as you paid. There are many ways to make gold. The reason why event items made many players richer, was that they actually sold the items and used some of the gold to start making more gold.

    But most players where happy with the EMs before, and not many complained. But now that the items are going up in price a lot, its good for sellers bad for some buyers. While some buyers are both they do not mind. Without a gold sink, people will get richer and richer, while many items will go up in price. If you only play Europa that is fine, but don't think that the other shards are bad, or that it does not happen there also. People adapt and learn to figure out how to deal with it. Btw. Most of the items I sell also comes from other shards, and many other traders do the same. Its cheaper, easier to get more items, it is not only event items that is being transfered around. But at least event items will be displayed in most Museums around the shards. Some people might never have visited one of them, you should really go just check out a few.
    If you do not like making chars on other accounts, there are still a few old pictures and new ones up from some of the museums. Many might have changed now.
    http://stratics.com/community/threads/display-your-museum.196550/
    Event items from many shards, in one place.
     
  35. Leto

    Leto Journeyman
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    It isn't the economy, stupid!

    That joke would probably work better in the US, but it'll have to do :D



    Oh, and I fixed this for you. Welcome ;)
     
  36. Europa Trader

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    Disrupt the events... I guess this happens when EMs favours one certain group of players. But it would be same for all shards right, just some EMs get more respect from these type of players than others. Every EM and their events are different, some are good at finding a balance and you actually see very few players doing this.

    When people have a lot of gold, there is not much they can use it for in the game, so they buy up rares and event items, that is more or less what they can use the gold for these days.
     
  37. Shakkara

    Shakkara Slightly Crazed
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    Blah blah.

    Sorry, but that isn't the economy any of us cares about, as few of us play the game that way. I think that people like Made In USSR or the people selling beetles for 1000GP in New Magincia contributed a million times more to Europa's economy already than you ever will.
     
  38. Alaster The Insane

    Alaster The Insane Journeyman
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    europants trader, as i called you when i had a glimpse of interest to you.

    There is one big question.

    How would you buy or pay for fun ?

    The answer really interests me.


    edit : rofl i just saw. Shard shields as an excuse... yeah. Get a 1 year account before talking to us bro. You'd look less stupid.

    "I need to make profit"
    you on duty or on a game ?
     
    #38 Alaster The Insane, Jul 28, 2013
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2013
  39. Europa Trader

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    For me trading is fun, going around other shards, talking with people about items I need and they need. Buy items and sell them. Find items that people might be searching for. All you might see is a person who buys items and sells them again.
    But we all see things differently, and we all have fun in different ways.
     
  40. Alaster The Insane

    Alaster The Insane Journeyman
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    i ask the moderators to excuse me, i'm going to double post, but it's really needed.

    ET. Let's be clear. You're spilling what we call in france "mauvaise foi".

    For the lucky people knowing nothing about france (yeah, you're lucky !), it means, well, it's a subtile way to mean "you know, but you don't wan't to tell, so you use a tricky way to do so".

    ET, let's be honest. All your excuses, and they are way damn bad for the people knowing you, will never fix the harm you do.
     
  41. Alaster The Insane

    Alaster The Insane Journeyman
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    and for the fun question you bring. Where is the fun in billion tradings ? I missed the part you help the the beginners etc...

    So yeah, you have your (i wonder how comes you didnt use that word already) playstyle, and there is another : the life of the shard.
     
  42. Europa Trader

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    The problem with your logic, is that you still only look at Europa. One day you might learn, that traders has very little to do with this. Now I'm a Trader, I trade on other shards, so do a lot of people from all other shards. But Europa is still one of the only shards where this is a problem. So either the people on the other shards earn a lot more gold and get more items to sell, since there is a lot of people who do trading the same way as I do. Or maybe I am actually right, because there is so much more going on in the game, than just on one shard.
     
  43. Europa Trader

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    If you do not enjoy trading, you might not understand where the fun is. Where I help the beginners is in things you do not see, but you might be able to ask Mim from New Player House. Or when they are in need of items I hand them the items or gold, if I'm around.
     
  44. Wizal the Fox

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    I'm sorry Alaster but while I don't share ET's fun with trading, on Economy he's right: The more traders there are on a shard, the better the economy is.
    Look at Europa: this is THE most expensive shard of the entire game. As a result, shops don't sell much, and people don't put their stuff for sale.
    ANY artifact on Europa is more expensive than on ANY other shard. Ressources have reached crazy prices too, and you can't find most of them in any shop.

    There are NO good reforged item are for sale, and when I put some on my vendor myself, even at lower prices than Atlantic, nothing sells. And my vendor is in Luna.

    A few other examples from last week:
    - I wanted to buy a clean SSI5 ring. Couldn't find any. So I Asked people on ICQ, on stratics, and general chat and in the end got 1 offer to sell me a stupid ring for dozens of millions. At this point I cracked, picked up a Wakoku shard shield and bought the same ring for 500k.
    - I wanted to sell an extra luck suit I had. No buyer on Europa after 1 week. I xferred it to Atlantic and it sold within minutes with multiple offers.
    - I wanted to buy a stupid gargish clockwork leggings. The cheapest on Europa was 1.3m. I bought it on Drachenfels for 200k, from a Luna shop.
    - Just refilling BASIC resources is a huge pain. Only a handful of shops carry barbed leather, DC/shadow ingots, at high prices, and they don't refill very often. Regular leather is usually found on shops at 3 times the prices of Fel NPCs!!! POF, forged metal charges, eveything is at least twice the price of the most expensive other shard. Some resources you just don't find at all for sale anywhere (try buying granite for example)

    I have experienced so much pain buying or selling anything on Europa that now I just buy and sell on the other shards whenever I can. And it's really not a choice but out of necessity because frankly I would have preferred to use my 16 year account gifts for something else than shard shields... There is really something wrong with Europa, and clearly it's not the number of players that makes a difference, it's the total lack of traders, or should I say "arbitragists" that normally make the commerce flow...

    So no really, ET is not harming the economy, he is helping it: For instance I bought many ressources and artifacts from him that he brought from other shards and sold at much lower prices than Europa shops...
     
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  45. Barian

    Barian Always Present
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    My play style is fun
    Your play style is tedious
    His play style is detrimental to the well-being of UO

    Play styles are completely subjective, the important thing is that YOU have fun playing how YOU want to play.
    At base UO is a sandbox game, you play how you want.

    Lets not turn this ( most excellent ) discussion thread into play style bashing PLEASE !!


    And Wizal, if you want basic resources why don't you try to find someone who's main play style is the gathering of said resources (that would be me btw)
     
  46. Morgana of Monglow

    Morgana of Monglow Journeyman

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    Resources ? Yeah there are so many who farm them but only for themselve. And basically because kinda everyone craft "on their own". Let me say somm : everyday there's some crafters who scream for free repairs , crafting, help etc etc on our lovely western Britain bank. How many came in and just ask for weapon/armour fix ? Not many...Unfortunately i'm really busy and i can't attend as i used when it started but believeme...i had the chance to repair somm once..by 15 days . True, ingots price gone crazy but that's because mining spots gone "random"...also no one ask for stuff repair 'cause repairing deeds...THIS killed the "crafting part" - i mean - where to go, who to meet ( trusted crafters ) , and so on. Time ago you had some "certain spots" to looks for. Now...it's totally random.
    Europa prices are the most expensive ? Sorry but i doubt that. I made a lev 1 character just to visit Luna on Atlantic...and i was just shocked bout theyr prices. Also, Eu shop vendors tend to compare prices wich Atlantic, wich is wrong ( my opinion ofc ) . Rest of what i call "fun shops" are owned by ppl who doesn't know anything bout the market. I keep seeing just iron ingots who cost upto 14gp per...and ofc it makes me LOL more and more. It's just those "new" players who don't know where to farm....eg : one of best spots for barbed is the white wyrm spot....really EASY to kill, some nice money and plenty of barbed hides....go look around and you will see that spot it's empty, 24/day. I remember that we had to do turns on Elder Gazers spot, when they gave some nice money ...pah...
     
  47. Wizal the Fox

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    Ok, Sadly I have a new example since I happen to need a crimson cincture [even altered since it's for my garg]... I'am not cheating on my proof as I have posted my request on the Europa trade forum yesterday... so let's see what we have here:

    11 available for sale across all shards today:
    - Europa 49m
    - GL 38m
    - ATL 37m
    - ATL 35m
    - ATL 35m (altered)
    - ATL 35m (altered)
    - GL 32m
    - GL 32m
    - Asuka 30m
    - GL 30m
    - Catskills 25m (altered)

    I'm sorry but those are facts, not blahblahblah...
    So what is my choice really? Do you seriously think I will buy the one from Europa?
     
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  48. Morgana of Monglow

    Morgana of Monglow Journeyman

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    Well at that price i hope NOT ! I visited Atlantic just ...humm...two monts ago ( maybe ) .. 49m is a NO NO for sure so you're absolutely right.

    Jeez....prices gone really MAD on Europa *faint* .
     
  49. Aurelius

    Aurelius Babbling Loonie
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    I'd be very careful regarding item 'values', just because some people ASK for that stupid a price doesn't mean it will sell at that price. I can stick any item up for sale for 500m if I wish, but people won't buy it.

    Given the number of folks with 'free' travel to other shards with shield tokens, on top of the regular shard transferring, it seems to me that the price will generally even out over time - or in certain cases very rapidly indeed. Realistically, we don't have 'shard values' as we used to, we can expect some variation in prices for shard populations but over time those will settle to sensible ranges based not on what people want to make, but what things actually sell for.

    The paradox of proper gold sink, which takes out the cash running around the game rather than just transferring it between players, it that every time it's raised, people scream and the devs back off. Largely the problem is we've never really had a fully thought through gold sink, where the only way to get the (ideally deco only and showing off piece of bling) item is to pay out gold, certainly not the turnin system where so many items can be paid in, or the bizarre governor's 'pay 2m a week forever if you want other folks to access a trade deal'.

    Making anything available only via gold draws the reasonable enough response that things should be available to anyone through gameplay - which I'd completely agree with were we starting the game up NOW, but we're not. The issue to be addressed is that we need to drain some of the ridiculous amounts of gold sloshing around out of the system to make it fairer for everyone to get the desirable things to help them play the game.

    The problem needs surgery, but it's not likely to ever get it, based on past history - just more anaesthetic and painkiller to keep things 'functioning'.
     
  50. Wizal the Fox

    Stratics Veteran

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    Yes, but that's precisely my point: that takes arbitragists, aka traders, to do that. If people with shard shields only use them to bring stuff for themselves (as I do) it's not going to even the public prices. That's why traders are important and the lack of them on Europa is hurting the whole shard. That's why I'm not bashing ET as most of you do hehe