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From UHall: A direct question to the developers.

Discussion in 'UO Spiels N Rants' started by Beefybone, Jun 17, 2008.

  1. Beefybone

    Beefybone Visitor

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    You know the drill. A guy is scripting. He's in the same places, doing the same things, for hours and days and weeks on end. So someone pages, a GM appears, the script sets off a GM alarm, and the professional farmer comes over to where he has a dozen characters all online scripting. He responds to the GM, the GM leaves, and he goes back to scripting for hours and days and weeks on end.

    I know he's scripting, you know he's scripting, everyone knows he's scripting. He's not some legitimate player who farms painted caves or mines for 23 hours per day and stands there yelling "Kal Ort Por" helplessly when you put a bagball on his recall spot because he's just dumb. He's scripting.

    WHY DON'T YOU BAN HIM EVEN THOUGH HE EVENTUALLY ANSWERED? YOU KNOW HE IS SCRIPTING.

    WHY?
     
  2. Emil IsTemp

    Emil IsTemp Guest

    If your attended, you can run scripts all you want... you dont even need UOA to make the macrows.

    If your unattended, your can and should be banned.
     
  3. Fixed it for you. All Scripts should equate to bannage. Sorry!
     
  4. Emil IsTemp

    Emil IsTemp Guest

    Target Next, Attack Last on my F2... I hold F2 down, I target and attack all the monsters on the screen within one second... using normal game mechanics... def bannable...

    :bs:
     
  5. Since when do ingame macros have to be presented when its inferred that this doesn't fall under the player-conceived notion of scripting? If anything, those are Macros. Unless of course you require a separate program to do it for you which you don't :).
     
  6. Emil IsTemp

    Emil IsTemp Guest

    Does a golf ball count?
     
  7. That's pretty sad.
     
  8. Emil IsTemp

    Emil IsTemp Guest

    Aye it is.. only used that one for getting rid of my short terms back in the day rolleyes:

    Want to stop scripting? Remove UOA, Remove any/all macrows/hotkeys, and let everyone click and drag their way around the world.

    Yea, i could live that way, can you?
     
  9. Exactly! Because you know that it would work too which is why you presented it. Right!?...right?
     
  10. Alrich

    Alrich Guest

    UOA/macros != scripting

    scripting is using an automated program to input commands for you.

    Much more advanced then setting up good macros and/or going with the penny-wedged-in-your-keyboard trick. Scripts can run your char around, mine, drop off supplies, get more tools when needed, etc. MUCH different from UOA making your life easier.
     
  11. Emil IsTemp

    Emil IsTemp Guest

    Exactly.. yar! :).

    Well, it would work for a while.. the scripts would prolly still work through a cursor-recording of sorts.. Im all for Punkbuster or a similar progie..

    *smacks head*

    If EA or whomever detects someone looping the exact same thing over and over, or hitting macrows at the same intervals.. they should get the axe. But this is EA were talking about. They weigh their options:

    "Hmm... this guy is paying us money... lets keep him"
     
  12. I agree with you there. Punkbuster is a needed addition and sadly yes, sometimes I wonder if EA doesn't combat scripters because of that reason.
     
  13. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    Why aren't they banned? Because despite having rules setting out that some programs are considered illegal, nobody seems to get banned for using them. Which IMHO is the biggest joke in EA's stance on cheating.

    According to the rules you should be at the keyboard and only use UO or UOA to run macros. This limits the actions you can automate and the length of the macro. You can't legally run either UO or UOA macros 24/7.

    If done illegally however, we can automate virtually any player action (if the script is well programmed) and leave it 24/7. As long as our alarm notifies us of a GM and we respond, nothing is done. And I'm sure there are some scripts which are even automating the response to a GM too.

    IMHO it doesn't matter if you're sitting beside the PC watching TV, if you're using an illegal program which allows you to automate everything in game, you deserve no better treatment than the fully AFK scripter. Because the only difference between the casual script runner and the big guys is the number of PCs they watch.

    Ban the lot of them...If they must be treated nicely 1 strike then the second occurrence is a ban. If you need 3 tellings you're too slow a learner, don't catch your butt in the door as you go.

    Wenchy
     
  14. Hunters Moon

    Hunters Moon Guest

    Could you have used a bigger font? That one just isn't large enough. /sarcasm
     
  15. Tomas_Bryce

    Tomas_Bryce Rares Collector Extraordinaire | Rares Fest Host
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    Developers do not have the mandate to ban anyone. Customer service aka GMs are the only ones with the power to do this. So you are asking your question to the wrong people.
     
  16. Tomas_Bryce

    Tomas_Bryce Rares Collector Extraordinaire | Rares Fest Host
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    We have very little information about customer service department. They hardly ever post here or ask for our feedback, which is surprising since you would think the customer service department would be interested in this. Everyone griefs the developers without understanding that they can do absolutely nothing about it. If people want any answers they better start whining about the CS and not the poor developers.
     
  17. Emil IsTemp

    Emil IsTemp Guest

    We have a customer service department? I never would have thought!

    Oh wait, we have an outsourced customer service department.. i would ask them some questions, but i dont speak hindi, and they dont understand english.. not to steriotype or anything..

    Yes, and then we have the devs.. where Fluff > Fixes.. Granted, they put forth the most effort, and im fairly happy with their performance of late.. but i can wait for pixel crack.. the players cant wait any longer for the fixes.
     
  18. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    I'm sure Jeremy is capable of passing on our kind regards to the CS team :) As none of the CS folks come here, and we've tried the proper channels, the last resort is to appeal to the folks who do speak to us - Jeremy and the dev team.

    Though the developers can do something about cheating. It's in the title...Develop the game so players don't feel the need to cheat to begin with, and help the CS team by automatically flagging accounts who do the same thing 24/7.

    Wenchy
     
  19. Here. Have a beehive.
     
  20. wrekognize

    wrekognize Guest

    I've been watching the same person script for over a year now. They of course wear the darkwood set. I've found two of their hunting spots, and i'm sure they have more. One is in the prism of light, another is in the Dojo in tokuno where the stealables are. I've of course reported this person many times, only to log on the next day and see them running the same scripts. I've also got them killed many times, to which they do not go get ressed and get their body. This person is obviously not at their computer.

    I'm tired of seeing people cheat when I work hard for the money I get. It's to the point where they know they can get away with it.

    The sad thing is that I even have someone in my alliance who I know scripts for ingots. I hate cheating, so I reported him when I knew he was scripting. THE GMs did nothing at all.

    ...
     
  21. Vexxed

    Vexxed Certifiable
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    2 Simple Questions.....



    1) Does anyone have any doubt that the person in question is Scripting? Attended or Not. ( 24/7, Multiple shards, persistance, lack of response to game world changes etc..)

    NO


    2) Should someone SO BLATANTLY breaking the rules continue to play UO ?

    NO
     

  22. You Sir, deserve an award!
     
  23. Joyous2K

    Joyous2K Guest

    I have an in-game macro that lasts about 45 minutes. Quite amazing. I lie down and watch a movie and keep just the bare minimum of UO visible. That way, if some Bagball wants to run up to me and accuse me of something I can minimize the movie and watch to see what happens.
     
  24. galefan2004

    galefan2004 Guest

    Just because you wish it to be so doesn't make it so. Its been the policy of gms to only check for programs if they catch you unattended. If you are attended they really don't care. That comes from a long policy of ignoring attended scripters just because they are scripting.
     
  25. galefan2004

    galefan2004 Guest

    Why do you keep bringing up PB? Its never going to happen. They decided not to impliment it because of a huge uproar of no thanks from the player community. I would never allow a third party program to scan my hard drive. If EA worked a scan of some sort into its own client (like WoW has) I would feel a little more comfortable.

    This is exactly what UOA does. It runs the same things over and over when it runs macros. Those macros are 100% legal. Its pretty hard to determine them from other scripts.
     
  26. galefan2004

    galefan2004 Guest

    You definately don't catch on well. I'll say it again. If they banned every casual scripter they might as well shut down the servers the next day because they just got rid of 60-70% of the player base in one day. EA isn't that stupid. If you want there to be an end to scripting then you remove the reason those casual scripters script in the first place. By the time you've gmed your 10th crafting skill its just not fun to click make last item over and over. Once you have made your 1000th bow for the Heartwood quests its just not doable by hand anymore. Once you have filled 1000 bods it gets annoying as all hell to do it by hand. That is what most casual scripters run programs to do, and those are design flaws that are overcome by programs not programs being used to overly exploit anything.
     
  27. Beefybone

    Beefybone Visitor

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    THEN THE RULES NEED TO BE CHANGED BECAUSE THE GAME IS BEING DESTROYED.
     
  28. Anne

    Anne Journeyman
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    I talked to a scripter one day quite awhile back. I watched for some time and noticed the repetitive actions always in the same sequence and intervals and knew it was a scripter.

    I said "Hi" and immediately got a "Hi" back, which surprised me. I said something further and got the response "I don't speak English". Then I said something else and got the response about not speaking English again, so I said "Bye" and she said "Bye". I stayed there awhile longer with neither of us saying anything and finally said "Bye" again and got a "Bye" back again.

    I imagine these responses were part of the script. It appears the char is attended because it responds. It says it can't speak English so that's the only response you get when you try talking to it and you don't get any conversation to confirm it is attended.

    What would a gm do in this case? :sad4:
     
  29. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    No it's not. Quit whining...la
     
  30. Kiminality

    Kiminality Guest

    Is it really necessary to express yourself like that?
    I find it hard to take anything written like that even remotely seriously...
     
  31. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Just to clear up a few things.

    Based on everything I know about this game and its rules.

    1. Using a 3rd party programs that are not approved, and that interfere with or interact with the game in some way, is not allowed by the rules of the game. This is true whether you are attended or not. "Scripting" usually means automating certain in-game functions. Most of the time, scripting involves using an unapproved 3rd party program. There's one out there in particular that's the really big offender.

    2. Macroing unattended is not allowed by the rules of the game, whether the method you are using to macro is itself allowed or not. You are breaking the rules when you hold down a key with tape and walk away.

    Now, I happen to dislike scripting intensely. The fact that it violates the rules of the game is enough for me. Its effects on the economy and other aspects of the game can be debated endlessly.

    At the end of the day, though, what's really important is that we all play this game. And, thus, we consent to the rules.

    Try playing Chess with someone, and making, say, a Rook move the wrong way. Your opponent is very likely going to object. And he'd be right to do so.

    If you do not like the rules, play another game. Or, accept the fact that no product you purchase is ever going to be perfect, and this is no less true for computer games than it is for, say, cars.

    This isn't to say you can't complain. This is, however, to say, that complaining about the rules and breaking them are 2 very different things.

    However.....I have never received an adequate answer to the following issue. Let's say I'm a GM, and I am looking at a suspected scripter. I appear, and he talks to me, with a few moments' delay. He says "I know it looks like I'm scripting. Me and my friends do this all day in 4- to 6-hour shifts. We sell gold for real money, live off of it, and spend the rest of our time doing fun things in-game. It looks like we're scripting because we do this all the time and have it down. Pathetic? Yes, officer, but true."

    Would you, as a GM, ban that person anyway? Not if you're smart. Banning a paying customer is a very touchy thing. And his explanation is credible.

    When the GMs do seem to catch a scripter, it is because the character's behavior can't possibly be explained in any other way.

    To my mind, the true solutions to scripting are the following.

    Pick at least 2, any 2, of the following.

    1. Punkbuster or some similar technology.

    2. Hiring more GMs and giving them the time and freedom to do their jobs properly.

    3. Ban the sale of in-game stuff for RL money.

    4. Stop making changes that favor scripting, such as the mining changes (rotating veins of ore, in the name of realism? laughable) and the Bag of Sending changes (now, scripting is really the only way to gold farm).

    -Galen's player
     
  32. Orvago

    Orvago Stratics' Finest
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    Using scripts requires a 3rd Party Program. UOAssist is the only legal 3rd Party Macro Program of its kind to use with UO. So if someone is scripting without UOAssist, then they are not adhering to the Terms of Service for Ultima Online.

    http://support.ea.com/cgi-bin/ea.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=306

     
  33. galefan2004

    galefan2004 Guest

    Punkbuster is not a solution. All of the programs have work arounds. All PB does is scan a few things (your windows menu bar and some files) which can and will be masked by players if PB goes live. WoW runs Warden and they still have plenty of macroers in that game.

    I'm not sure this is really an issue. It seems that most of the time gms simply don't respond to players that actually don't need a response, but they do respond to players that need a response.

    This has never been affective in any game, and that includes WoW. Banning the sale of anything that someone has legal access to for money is just not a good idea.

    I totally agree. They could also make changes that remove reasons to script...such as actually being able to get the heartwood quest you want without clicking a hundred times, and removing the ammount of clicks needed to gm certain skills.

    If they changed the systems to make them more friendly instead of more difficult then they would decrease the ammount of scripters. Most casual scripters only script systems that they don't want to click 500,000 times or more to accomplish anything from. Having anything require mulitple clicks as a a means of difficulty is just stupid.
     
  34. galefan2004

    galefan2004 Guest

    Under the ToS many of the programs listed for download on Stratics, and many of the programs I use that should be legal are actually illegal to use. For example, Bulk Order Deeds program (downloadble from Stratics) and the Treasure Hunting Tools program I use are both illegal. Its also interesting that UOAMap is now in limbo because according to the ROC the programs that are UO Pro are being developed by people with the consent of EA, and UOAMap is no longer being developed in such a fashion.