1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Greetings Guest!!

    In order to combat SPAM on the forums, all users are required to have a minimum of 2 posts before they can submit links in any post or thread.

    Dismiss Notice

Gardening FoF Less Than Desirable...

Discussion in 'UHall' started by RaDian FlGith, Aug 15, 2008.

  1. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2002
    Messages:
    2,442
    Likes Received:
    323
    Okay, honestly, here are two things that bother me about this:

    1) Honestly, if you look at the original cross-polination setup, aside from certain plants having physical similarities (which I expect some of us will sit down and map out as soon as we know which plants are being produced), if someone could logically explain to me how one crosses campion flowers and lillies OR poppies and bullrushes, and both of those combinations give you snow drops, I'll be happy to accept the answer given by Sakkarah, but since I'm betting no one can, I'm going to decry this as programmer's laziness.

    I mean, honestly, it's not about the realistic combination of plants. Water plant + prickly pear cactus = snake plant? Tribarrel cactus + prickly pear cactus = barrel cactus (or couldn't you just split a tribarrel into three singles?)? It's about the minigame of cross-polination. It's about having fun. No one looked at the original system and said, "Wow, those combinations made sense." Because, by and large, they didn't. I bet any of us could have mapped out similarites between the plants sufficient enough to make it work.

    2) Really? The art investment in creating a couple of new plants is that intensive? Are you kidding me? The art team supposedly created new art we were supposed to be seeing 2 months ago, and that's still not happened. So, uh, come on guys. If you're that desperate for art time, maybe pay someone in the UO community that does good artwork a small stipend to create art for you on an as-needed, contractual basis?

    So instead, what will happen, is people will get tired of looting the seeds, especially since there's no control over what appears, and the gardners will either have to go hunt for them on their own, or certain plants will just be unavailable. I don't understand why this is a good design decision. Gardners have not yet ceased gardening the old plants -- of course, there's still an ever-present mini-game there. See, you failed to understand that the gardening was as much about cross-polination as it was growing the plant. What made the Tokuno system bad was that it was limited in scope. You've just done the same thing.

    I'm sorry, but this answer bothers me the most. Again, I'm going to have to call programmer laziness on this, and it's answers like this that REALLY make me see this as a small bone thrown to the gardening community to keep them mildly interested.

    I honestly don't care if you like how they looked hued. You really have two choices in that matter: (1) You could recreate the original artwork and create properly hueing items -- you know, like chairs and banners, and such -- but I suspect no one on the current design team knows how to do that, or we wouldn't have clothing pieces that were designed in full-color KNOWING that they would be rehued -- and of course, this would require that over-worked art team to do something; (2) you could have simply realized that while YOU may not like some of the colors, some of us DO like how the colored plants look in among other plants, and in your decision, you've robbed us of the opportunity of further choice in our personal decorative designs.

    I mean, honestly, since you're taking extra time to get this publish out, why not hold off another month and do this gardening thing properly:

    (1) Add cross-pollination (just make it a new set, the gardners will be happy)
    (2) Seeds (this is a gardener's lifeblood... you're literally killing them with the current method)
    (3) Add a couple of resources later on down the line... it shouldn't be too hard to plug them in.

    And while you're at it:

    (4) We need sugar to be somewhere other than on paragons.
    (5) We need vanilla to be somewhere other than on paragons.

    And if you tell me that the cocoa tree will produce cocoa, sugar, AND vanilla, I'm going to redirect you to your answer about plants having nothing in common with each other and wonder what's going on.


    If you ask me... these design decisions are further proof that UO is in the wrong hands. At very least, its gardening system is.
     
  2. Inspector

    Inspector Guest

    Honestly who cares about some stupid plant's that after the first little rage almost nobody is going to use at all, look at bonsai trees and other crap plant's nobody wants them.
    I want the new expansion not a bunch of stupid plants.
     
  3. phantus

    phantus Stratics Legend
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2003
    Messages:
    8,369
    Likes Received:
    10
    /agree with Radian

    I want to refrain from throwing around the word lazy as far as programming but I don't buy the reason for the proposed half ass solutions either. Delay it rather than make it rubbish IMO.

    Let me state, for the record, I'm not a horticulturalist. I'm tired of seeing half ass systems added to UO. I feel the resources being spent on UO only allow for this type of thing to be added however.
     
  4. Sarphus

    Sarphus Guest

    No offense to the gardeners, but we have no idea what's on the dev schedule. All we know is that the devs decided to push pub 55 back and merge content from 56 into 55 to make a larger publish. Looking at the facts, I can't see any justification to invest more than a man-day to mapping out the plants into the cross polination system.

    Also, I fully support the decision to have the plants grow in their default colors. I've always felt that the hued plants were ugly and have always sought out the default color ones exclusively. That being said, I'd be in support of a plant dye tub to let players hue their plants if they really want to make them look like that (yuck) assuming it doesn't take much dev time to do that.

    You made a point that people will eventually just not pick up the seeds to sell them. I disagree. I'm a capitalist and I believe that if there's a demand for the seeds, someone will meet that demand if the price is right. I think the value of the fully grown plants will be reflected in the cost of the seeds. If not enough people are picking up seeds, gardeners will be willing to pay more for the seeds until people decide it's worth picking up the seeds.

    If I felt the devs had a fairly open schedule where they could easily sacrifice devs for long enough to do what you're asking for without impacting other development I would be in full support of what you're asking for. I don't feel that way at all... SA is WAY behind schedule and we have a story arc in full swing that presumably requires dev effort.

    Or maybe you think it would be better to put the new plants on hold for a year or few until the devs can hire enough devs to address mini-games. I'd prefer to have the new plants sooner rather than later... I love house deco :)
     
  5. Sarphus

    Sarphus Guest

    I don't see the proposed gardening update as a half ass improvement...
     
  6. phantus

    phantus Stratics Legend
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2003
    Messages:
    8,369
    Likes Received:
    10
    Compared to the current plant system it's half assed. Should be evident even to those not interested in plants.

    I notice you feel dev time should be spent elsewhere and I'd rather have things other than plants myself. However, you mention SA. Just so you know, the Dev DO NOT mention SA. The reps DO NOT mention SA. No one mentions SA except the players. When there is some type of statment that makes me believe there is a reason to have devs not work on plants then I'm with you. Right now they have nothing coming I care about.

    I'm to the point the point I don't care about story arcs. I don't want to know about the council murders. I don't care about avery. I want to know if we are getting a real expansion or not. I sure as hell know what is going on with WARHAMMER but unfortunately I don't pay for that game.
     
  7. Sarphus

    Sarphus Guest

    Don't care about the story arcs!? me neither, but the story arcs are a minigame for some people. Touche! :sword:

    When I compare this addition to the plant system, I see it as being simpler than the old system which could lower the entry point to gardening. I think it'll be easier for newer players to get into gardening when they can go from seed to end-level plant without needing to do all the cross polination. Then when they understand how to actually grow plants they will find out that there's an even deeper gardening system they can explore.

    My statements about use of dev time are based on the assumption that pub 55 will ROCK and the gardening updates are just a small portion of pub 55. I base these assumptions of the fact that the devs have decided to bump it back and include pub 56 content in it. I'm hoping there will be something for everyone in it too. I think we will have a better idea of what pub 56 looks like after the next town hall meeting.

    About SA... just because the devs aren't talking about it doesn't mean it's not being worked on. The more the devs talk about SA when it's not close to being ready for release, the more frustrated players will get. I don't think SA is coming any time soon, but I'm most definitely not counting it out yet.
     
  8. phantus

    phantus Stratics Legend
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2003
    Messages:
    8,369
    Likes Received:
    10
    Without going into the new player talk I just don't agree. This doesn't float with me. Gardening is easy work. It's the work part that makes it worth it. It's not just easy. That might make sense. *shrugs*

    My statements are based on many feelings by myself and other I've talked to about the current arcs and the recent publishes. They have been in a word, lackluster. The last good event was the candle of love. Destruction of Magincia was ok but only because it gave stuff. The content wasn't really anything to speak about. The last event was terribly flawed. Not beating that horse any more.

    I'm not counting it out either. I believe it's not going to be what it was supposed to be. I think it will be a download and 1/5th what it was expected to be because the game just doesn't have the resources to make it right any longer. There needs to be some light shed on SA from the devs. Simply put. There is no good reason to keep this information secret or quiet. The only reasonable excuse to not talk about an upcoming expansion is because of delays or problems with it.
     
  9. Demonous

    Demonous Rares Fest Host | Ches Jul 2010
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2006
    Messages:
    2,218
    Likes Received:
    49
    agree completely
     
  10. Flora Green

    Flora Green Guest

    Completely agree, Radian.
     
  11. / begin rant
    First of all, I want to apologize ahead of time because this post will probably not be very polite, or nice, or whatever.

    I am sick of these lame excuses for why the gardening sub-game isn't done right... it's a simple coding fix to rehue the plants in the way the colored plants were intended to be done in the first place, yet we got some excuse on it not being possible and they were going to fix the issue in KR. I'm sorry, the excuse we have for "properly hued plants" in KR is a joke. Those are the most hideous representations of the plants we have been growing for 10 years and love that I can think of. I know the plants can be rehued properly in the legacy client. I've seen it done. End of discussion there.

    Whatever! Seriously... that excuse of no possible logical correlation... doesn't fly. I mean let's take

    (Exhibit #1) Rushes + Prickly Pear Cactus = Small Palm

    Oh yes, those two parent plants share so much in common with their offspring. *smacks self in head* Do gardeners look ********?

    Plants are the lifeblood of gardeners. The cross pollination system (however unlogical it may end up being) will be the godsend of the devs to us gardeners. What will make you guys understand we don't CARE if plant 1 and plant 7 have not a single thing in common with plant 4, just as long as we can breen plant 1 and plant 7 to make plant 4! And for those of you who don't understand what I just said then sit tight and listen and maybe learn something. The current plant system is done on a linear table. There are 17 total plants... labeled 1 through 17. You take plant 3... breed it with plant 11... the child plant will be plant 7. There are only two plants in the current system which you can only get by cross-breeding to the same plant. That's the #1 plant (campion) and the #17 plant (tribarrel cactus). And for the record I'm only going by 100% crossing charts... not the 50/50 charts.

    We thrive off the mini-game of crosspollination... and yes, the surprise of mutant plants (black & white) is a compelling reason to keep crossbreeding, but for gardeners who do this as a source of meager income, this is a death notice... and yes, some of us players actually do make up our incomes growing and selling plants... and that's far better than exploiting and duping that other players have been doing as of late, yes?

    Do I think this new proposed system will end up like bonsai? Yes and no. I think the new plants (or at least hope) they will be more a decorative bonus to everyone, moreso than the bonsai. But I actually think the new plants will end up like the rare colored plants from the bontanist quest... you guys remember fire plants, magenta, pink & aqua??? Do people still buy them? Occasionally for particular decorating needs, but do you seen hoards of people camping out the quest and solen hives to get them? Hell no! Why? Because the random drop of the seeds gets old... it's absolutely ridiculous when you are trying to decorate something in a certain way for an event and need one pink campion flower and can't get the damn seed to drop because it's random.

    Again, we don't CARE if the chart doesn't make sense... in the same we don't care that the current chart doesn't make half the sense....

    (Exhibit #2) snowdrops + small palm = rushes
    (Exhibit #3) poppies + barrel cactus = fern


    Hmmm... need I say more?

    In response to the first part... it wouldn't take too much time to allow them produce seeds... that's fine, I think you'll hear a unanonymous voice from the gardening community saying we'll patiently wait for the system to implemented correctly. We don't want a rushed & thrown together, half assed system. We want a correctly done system that is in line with the current one. It doesn't have to be a 5th tier, it can be an entire linear table on it's own and by all means, make the two sets of plants not cross with each other! Do whatever you have to, however long you have to! We're patient, we just want to see it done right.

    Now in response to the second part: the market will be flooded, of course it will, it's a new hot item... but in two months noone will bother with the new plants....??!?!?! ARE YOU BLIND!?!?!?! DEAF?!?!?! It's been how many years now since the original table of plants was introduced? Yet here we are... we're still growing those same plants... happily might I add! Make the rarer, more desireable plants in the fourth tier of the new table... that way it's going to be at least a month before anyone has any of them, much less full sets of the seeds in stockpile....

    And for all you people who are going, "Who cares about stupid plants." Well, who cares about whatever it is in this game that you enjoy doing most. Leave us to our game and we'll leave you to yours. If you don't like plants, then take your happy rear in another thread and post about something you care about.

    /end rant

    *puts on flame-proof suit*
     
  12. Fink

    Fink Guest

    That's what first generation plants do. First gen is the "simple" part.

    You harvest the basic seeds and from those grow first generation plants. After that, to use your words.. "they understand how to actually grow plants", and should they decide to cross those plants into 2nd gen etc.. "they will find out that there's an even deeper gardening system they can explore." It's already in place, no real need to duplicate it just to rush some plants out. Most gardeners would prefer a well-rounded system to a quick & dirty hack job.

    I don't think it's lazy programming that they're cutting corners here. Games programmers don't punch in of a morning and say "I'm going to do the very least I can", they actually mostly like their jobs. I'm sure they'd want to do a heap more but, as in all forms of human endeavor, there's some killjoy counting the beans and knocking inspiration on the head.
     
  13. Erekose

    Erekose Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 23, 2008
    Messages:
    429
    Likes Received:
    0
    One of the things I love about UO is the depth and detail. It entertains so many playstyles that they are almost limitless. I do not begrudge those (like the sweet Nakasha) who love their gardening.

    That being said, with all the things going on, all the questions about the coming expansion, bannings, KR, PvP, bugs, the Event, etc. it would have been nice to have some actual substance this week.
     
  14. Eslake

    Eslake Guest

    And by the same token, many of us can't see a justification in investing more than a man-day in the story arc, or PvP, or [insert any other aspect of the game].

    As you yourself point out, the story arc is important to some. And gardening is important to others.
    Neither is more justified than the other, and there is nothing that makes them more or less important than any other aspect of the game.

    I am glad we are getting new plants, and I will be out there collecting seeds to grow them.
    But because of the way they are being implimented, I will have no reason to be growing them after 2 weeks.

    As I said in the other thread, this is like 99.5 meditation. It is useful and certainly better than going without, but to stop so close to making it much more useful is just insane.
    (although in this case it would be more accurate as an analogy if GM meditation gave a bonus of +100 MR)
     
  15. Shelleybean

    Shelleybean Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2003
    Messages:
    1,856
    Likes Received:
    51
    Agree, but at this point I'm happy to get anything new for gardening. The lack of cross pollination is a huge disappointment. My biggest concern is:
    This is no different than shelling out tons of money for peerless reagents, except in this case you won't know what seed you are buying. My understanding is that all the seeds will be labeled the same. You won't even know what seed you bought until after the plant is grown. I don't mind hunting, but I hope I don't need a group of people to obtain one seed.
     
  16. Flora Green

    Flora Green Guest

    Shelleybean,

    Agreed. At the very least they can label them better than all 15 seeds "peculiar" and stick them on mid-level monsters. I'm sure they can come up with 3 more adjectives to describe the seeds. In two weeks they should be able to make those 2 minor adjustments. They need to realize that not everyone wants to be forced to kill things to enjoy the game or buy seeds (of all things) off of overpriced luna vendors. These are plant seeds, not crimsons. Otherwise, despite my frustration, I AM glad someone is paying attention to gardening.
     
  17. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2002
    Messages:
    2,442
    Likes Received:
    323
    Apparently there are a significant number of players that DO care about the plant system -- and, no offense, but if the game is reliant upon the Expansion Developers to do stuff that the Live Developers can do, we've got issues far greater than the plants and SA.

    Okay, but they already did the ground work as it was. In fact, they could have simply taken the existing system, copied the code, substituted new plants, and voila, there'd have been a whole addition to the gardening system. Instead of taking time to make the system vibrant, we're getting "Here's my half-baked idea for gardening, Love Sakkarah."

    Yes, because, you know, simply using the existing system with existing colors would have been Difficult™. That's just what we need. A "Plant Dyetub." Seriously? Again, I understand that SOME people dislike the colors... that's fine. Don't use them. But I am so tired of people using their own tastes to dictate to others why something shouldn't be in game. This is the same argument used for "neons" and while some people don't like them, others do, and since the game is about variety, variety should be available.

    We'll see, but history, in the form of the bonsai, is on my side.

    SA isn't behind schedule. KR is behind schedule. And since one needs the other to survive, OF COURSE the other is "behind schedule." And, uh, the code for the existing plant system is in place. It would not have been difficult to adapt that code to the new system.

    Right... because it would be similarly difficult to introduce a new ore color or a new wood color or add a new craftable to tinkering menu, right? The codeset ALREADY EXISTS. She simply chose the lesser codeset -- the bonsai codeset -- and copied and pasted it fifteen times instead of using a more vibrant codeset.

    Then, no offense, you're blind.

    Because they've been doing so much lately that ROCKs, right?

    Okay, but realize that if UO's being developed only by the Live Team, and not a multi-team situation as in the past, UO's got some SERIOUS problems, and whatever expansion is next will, most likely, be the last.

    I disagree. One can both enjoy their job AND be a lazy programmer. Even if Sakkarah likes her job and feels like she's doing a favor to the gardening community by not introducing things because of her own personal beliefs, she's being lazy by not fully investigating the desire of the community, lazy in the decision to not make a more full system, and lazy in not fighting for the artistic materials she needs to get her job done properly.

    A lot of people are fooled by the phrase, "You wouldn't believe how difficult it is to do some of these things." On the other hand, many of us who are programmers understand not only how easy something should be in the context of a properly written program, we ALSO understand how easy something like this should be in the context of the UO codebase as we understand it to be.

    And in the end, it's a frank disappointment.

    Oh, and I probably didn't mention, I'm not a gardener either. I think I dabbled with the system for about a month after it came out, but I didn't take the time to map my cross-polinations, and so never really got into it. I grew a few bonsai after they came out. None of this makes me feel like, "Well, since I'm not going to benefit from it, it should be a simple system."

    Again, to the detractors, the codebase is already there for a rich, vibrant system. That's not what was chosen, and what was chosen was a weak, insufficient substitute.
     
  18. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2008
    Messages:
    3,657
    Likes Received:
    9
    Aside: I just did the Naturalist's quest for the first time in KR - very cute sound effects :)
     
  19. Hyssmaye

    Hyssmaye Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2004
    Messages:
    342
    Likes Received:
    9

    I've only done it in 2D - didn't realize KR was different. I will check this out, thanks :)
     
  20. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2008
    Messages:
    3,657
    Likes Received:
    9
    (it's been a long time since I did it in 2d either so I may have just forgotten what was there)

    alas, I may have overwatered my last bright green seed trying to remember how to use the plant growing gump. *starts searching around for any stockpiles*

    edit: all is well - found a large stockpile I set aside long ago back when I was using vorpal bunnies to train my pets :)
     
  21. Sarphus

    Sarphus Guest


    Fair enough...

    I think the devs should do a poll in game to see where gardeners are on this. Maybe the proper course of action is to bump the gardening update back and implement it using the cross polination system.

    I certainly don't want to rain on anyone's parade. I just don't want to see a disproportionate amount of attention put on gardening updates at the expese of other systems. Then again, the existing plant system is alive and well years from when it was introduced, so maybe it's worth the investment.
     
  22. Sarphus

    Sarphus Guest

    I wonder if the devs could release the current gardening expansion as planned, but then plan a future expansion of it where the new plants are first tier plans that can be cross polinated into future plants.

    if the devs did it right, they could release one cross polination tier at a time and expand it as they have time.

    So they could do the first tier plants this year.
    Second tier plants next year
    third tier the following year and so on.

    Just a thought.
     
  23. Sakkarah_

    Sakkarah_ VIP
    VIP Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 13, 2008
    Messages:
    371
    Likes Received:
    0
    From the FOF

     
  24. Eslake

    Eslake Guest

    Let me hazard a guess at the Big News.

    Arbitrary Moster Type X
    invading
    Arbitrary Town(s) Y
    due to something to do with
    Mysterious NPC(s) Z
    And some minor lore will be thrown in to fit the formula.

    Am I close?


    I really hope I'm not.
     
  25. Strawberry

    Strawberry Guest

    I don't have any gold to buy seeds from hunters, I spent it all on colored leather, bones, peerless reagents, and golem parts rolleyes:

    The plants should at least be self-pollinating so that a gardener who has all 16 seeds can continue to grow plants every week without having to hit the dungeons.

    Here's an idea: put the seeds on trees. Say the wind stirred up by [random plotpoint] blew the seeds in from a distant land. Then a GM lumberjack would get them sometimes instead of bark or fungi. Maybe have a few lodge in rocks on the mountains so miners could get them. The resource gatherers for crafters are supposed to be lumberjacks and miners, not mages and sampires.
     
  26. Shelleybean

    Shelleybean Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2003
    Messages:
    1,856
    Likes Received:
    51
    We do thank you for the new seeds and plants. Soon enough, you'll see happy posts with screen shots of the new plants, new house decorations, etc. etc. :danceb:
     
  27. Ashyn

    Ashyn Guest

    Usually it's the player base that has to be asked, "what part of 'fantasy-based' game do you not understand?"

    It doesn't have to make sense - it's a "make-believe world" where all things are possible.

    Are the developers starting to lose focus on that as well?
     
  28. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2008
    Messages:
    3,657
    Likes Received:
    9
    I'm not quite as dogmatic as that ... it is nice to have overlap between different playstyles. I think it is important that at least some seeds come from creatures. But I do like the harvestable seed idea. I also like the idea of the elves giving out seeds in heartwood as a rare reward or some spawning on the ground reagent-style, or arising from magical experiments in exotic fertilizers.

    Some day down the road, once we're done with gargoyles and pirates, we'll have to lobby for an agriculture-centered expansion :)

    *puts on straw hat*
     
  29. phantus

    phantus Stratics Legend
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2003
    Messages:
    8,369
    Likes Received:
    10
    I have nothing against you or the effort you have put forth on the plants. Sometimes the fact we apreciate your efforts get lost in our fervor for a better UO. Doesn't mean I don't think you can do better. The above is just not something that is going to quiet anyone. We have heard we are going to be hearing something soon for far too long. You seem to be one of the few people that are involved in the game that actually play it so I try my best to treat you with some respect. I'm not going to the town hall. The last ones were lame with no info. Why should I look forward to another one?
     
  30. Cyrah

    Cyrah Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    982
    Likes Received:
    300
    It seems this game has become what might have been. I am trying so hard to be polite and to appreciate what has been done.


    To hear that I got crumbs again because a whole cake is is coming is just old.

    Who is an artist for UO? Who can do art these days, no not who can, but who is allowed to?

    There are 4 groups and the same monsters always give the same seeds from their group? Is this so? This will be like the items to make ugly chocolate, a million per for while then 300 gp. Oh happy day...

    Years to get new plants, and this happens. :(
     
  31. Sarphus

    Sarphus Guest

    I certainly don't fault the devs for the amazing things they're adding. I'm just trying to give ideas of how the system could be implemented as planned in pub 55 and that implementation could serve as a foundation to build upon with later content to be added a year or 2 from now.

    I'm assuming the dev schedule is pretty packed for the next year or so.
     
  32. christy1221

    christy1221 Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    1,329
    Likes Received:
    18
    Or you can get one from begging, but only if your a gm begger. Ok I through in the gm part because I gmed begging last week LOL :lol:
     
  33. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2008
    Messages:
    3,657
    Likes Received:
    9
    I was working up begging until I started losing karma ... I'm trying to keep all my characters on the straight and narrow karma-wise, but I've always liked the idea of having a wandering monk of the virtues being given small tokens in his travels :) )
     
  34. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2002
    Messages:
    2,442
    Likes Received:
    323
    Regine, not to put too fine a point on it, at this point, most of what I hear from Mythic these days is tantamount to an excuse. Kingdom Reborn was released WAY too early and remains incomplete. Unless this wonderful, upcoming thing at the Town Hall is KRv2.0, and fixes the mistakes made in its developments, I'll have to say I'll be immensely underwhelmed.

    And while I suppose I "appreciate" that adding new plants wasn't even in the plans, putting in a half-baked decision just to keep people happy for a brief moment or two is no excuse for the current design being implemented.

    Further, since we're already behind on the "this is coming Late Spring, make that June, hold on, we won't talk about it because we're way behind, and people should just understand that we can't plan a year in advance and share anything about the game, and since we aren't even sure, at this point, that we're going to make AUGUST with our 'big plans,' let's just keep stringing them along..." I have to say that being excited about the next Town Hall just isn't on my radar.
     
  35. galefan2004

    galefan2004 Guest

    I don't agree that all of the items that drop from paragons for the chocolate system need to be availabe via plants. If that happens then you lose a bonus for hunting paragons. Ilshenar paragons already aren't hunted that much simply because the reward normally does not equal the work. If they do make it so the chocolate is taken away from the Ilshenar paragons then they should at least throw them a bone and give them a lesser chance to drop ML artifacts and can the junk artifacts that no on in their right mind would use (cavorting club anyone?).

    I do agree about the plants. I don't know any really good systems that rely on the RNG. The problem here is not only does it rely completely on the RNG but it makes you wait 9 days to see if you got junk or not. If they want to make it rely on the RNG exclusively then they should make the grow time be 2-3 days with a 50% chance to bump that time with fertile dirt. If they want to keep the 9 day grow time then they really need to label the seeds. People get burnt out fast when trying for a certain plant when the RNG keeps giving them the same old junk.
     
  36. galefan2004

    galefan2004 Guest

    Funny how you have been growing plants for 10 years when seeds didn't enter into the game till 2002.

    There is a HUGE difference between spending development time on an activity that 99% of the population does (hunting for example) as compared to an activity that 1% of the population does. Gardening needs a complete overhaul. Seed growth time needs to be reduced to 7 days with a 50% chance to bump each growth with fertile dirt. Fertile dirt needs to drop off of a high end monster in about 100 per monster (maybe a valorite ore elemental seeing they are basically the big brother to the earth elemental). The current system just makes you wait way to long for a finished result and that starts to make things seem more like work then fun.
     
  37. galefan2004

    galefan2004 Guest

    Power of positive thinking? That would make it a 3 year system. Do you honestly think, given the current state of UO, that UO will still be here in 3 years?
     
  38.  
  39. galefan2004

    galefan2004 Guest

    Not to be offensive but you guys promise new and revolutionary things with each and every town hall and deliver the same old wattered down crap. So, you expect us to believe that this time will be different? At this point, it falls on deaf ears.
     
  40. galefan2004

    galefan2004 Guest

    In a WoW podcast, the lead developer said that they know the final patch for an expansion before they even release the expansion. I really don't get how UO has such a different method of operation. I would hope they have their plans done for at least a year in advance, and if they know what they plan on accomplishing with each expansion why can't they just lay out what they are planning on doing while letting us know that it might not actually happen.
     
  41. galefan2004

    galefan2004 Guest

    I was just kidding realy but the plants didn't come until towards the end of the solen invasion event arc and that would be 2002 I believe (maybe late 2001).
     
  42. AesSedai

    AesSedai Guest

    - that makes me think of this...
     
  43. Flora Green

    Flora Green Guest

    Heh. I think the 10th anniversary disaster is proof they don't. :p
     
  44. kittykat

    kittykat Journeyman
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 11, 2001
    Messages:
    287
    Likes Received:
    0
    In all fairness to the UO devs (and other companies as well), WoW developers are (likely) the only ones that can and do take as much time as they feel necessary to put out an expansion. They have the (unusual) leeway to do it their way in whatever time frame they choose, without being pushed by the company to hurry up and crank out that money making expansion right now, yesterday. I would assume that gives them the time to plot out in detail how their expansions are going to go and what will be patched when.

    That's not to say that UO devs don't have year or more long plans, but they are probably more subject to the constraints of the "make money now" company policy - that could sidetrack them from their intended goal or change their plans completely.


    Can't remember when the plants came out - but can give a bit of a time frame at least. Back when AoS was getting close to release, Augur was working on the 5th gen of plants and had to scrap them within the last month (or so) leading up to AoS's launch because they were running out of time and had to work on other stuff for the launch. So whenever AoS released, it was, I'm guessing, at least 6 months before that that plants came out (possibly longer, just can't remember).
     
  45. kittykat

    kittykat Journeyman
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 11, 2001
    Messages:
    287
    Likes Received:
    0
    Oh I did want to comment on this (forgot to in my other reply):

    I must disagree completely with this statement. Gardening does NOT need a complete overhaul. It's quite fine the way it is. It isn't meant to be easy (as in snap your fingers and your done) or quick, and in fact if it had been done differently it would have lost appeal long ago as everyone had that instant gratification thing that happens with so many now unused portions of the game before people moved on to the next big thing. Plants are just time consuming enough to not being overwhelming to the game, and yes it does take some actual commitment to get them grown, but on the other hand they are something that are appreciated even years later. In fact, I just have to quote Sarphus from earlier in this thread (even though he's sorta on the opposite side of this arguement from me *laughs*) - this is the single most accurate and well put statement I've read throughout all these threads:


    Indeed it is worth the investment *grins* - and galefan2004: I'm of the mind of, if it ain't broke, don't fix it *smiles*.
     
  46. galefan2004

    galefan2004 Guest

    And yet they crank out their expansion faster than EA does for pretty much all of its games, and Blizzard's team isn't as huge as you seem to think it is. A great deal of the people on the WoW team are also working on Diablo 3 and Starcraft 2 as well.

    I'll agree with this, but its one of the reasons EA doesn't do very well in the gaming industry overall (other than cranking out sports games). Thinking of how to make money quick in the MMORPG world instead of figuring out how to make the most money in the long term is not a great idea IMO.
     
  47. galefan2004

    galefan2004 Guest

    Lets face it...99% of the population already moved on, and most of the remaining gardeners only grow plants for the purpose of producing oarnge petals.

    The only things appreciated at this point are oarnge petals. Green thorns don't even still have an "appreciation". Most of the decorative plants are either thrown out or stuffed in a chest somewhere.

    It is broke as evidence by the fact that 99% of the player base won't even bother with plants and most of those that bother with plants only grow the exact same plant over and over to get oarnge petals. The biggest problem is that 9 days is an insane ammount of time to grow one plant. Sure they might be bumped by fertile dirt, and then again they may not, and fertile dirt is a pain to farm in bulk.

    All I would really like to see is for them to cut the timer to 7 days with a 50% chance for fertile dirt to bump that timer each growth and add fertile dirt (x100) to valorite ore elementals or another similar creature so that you can honestly get it in bulk.
     
  48. Eslake

    Eslake Guest

    While I admit I only play on SP and LS, on those 2 shards at least, it is a lot more than 1% gardening and most are growing numerous types.

    Go for a walk some time (not to hunting spots, but just walk around looking at houses). You will probably be surprised at how many are still actively growing any number of different plants.
    (and while you're at it, note the complete lack of growing bonsai ;) )

    I don't think the age of plants should be changed, per se, but that the name of the plant should indicate its type after about 3 or 4 days rather than waiting until it is adult.
     
  49. galefan2004

    galefan2004 Guest

    You are using those 2 shards as a cross of the population and those 2 shards are possibly two of the least populated shards in the game. My experience has revolved around GL, LS, and Legends and I have honestly not seen very many people getting involved with plants.

    You are assuming I don't do that. Back in the day you could actually find gardener shops. Today you are hard pressed to find anyone selling plants, but you can still find plenty of people selling oargne petals (but never enough vendors selling them) which leads me to believe that no one is actually bothering with plants outside of oarnge petals.

    That might work also, but I really do not like having to wait 7 days just to find out what the plant is. That is my biggest problem with the system. I personally won't grow plants again because 7-9 days is just to long of an investment for oarnge petals when they don't sell for all that much.
     
  50. Legacyee

    Legacyee Guest

    The one thing I would like to see, is somewhere to put all my seeds
    I have too many but can't throw any away (just in case i need them for a new decor)
    So Devs please give us a seed box, something just like a bod book :)