1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Greetings Guest!!

    In order to combat SPAM on the forums, all users are required to have a minimum of 2 posts before they can submit links in any post or thread.

    Dismiss Notice

Gargoyle vs. Elf for Mining and Lumberjacking ?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by popps, Mar 14, 2011.

  1. popps

    popps Always Present
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2004
    Messages:
    13,445
    Likes Received:
    461
    As in regards Crystal Shards and Crystalline Blackrock does the Elves bonus work also for them or is a Gargoyle better off at mining and lumberjacking these rather than an Elf ?

    The issue is quite relevant since a Gargoyle cannot ride either a fire Beetle nor a Blue Beetle which are very handy when mining or lumberjacking.....

    Thanks
     
  2. Aurelius

    Aurelius Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2004
    Messages:
    2,756
    Likes Received:
    689
    They can have either follow them as normal, and since they can have a fire beetle and two normal pack horses or llamas with them at one time, it probably is rather trivial.... Maybe interesting to know, marginally important if your priority is getting the shards or blackrock, but in terms of carrying capacity, not a major issue.
     
  3. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2001
    Messages:
    30,881
    Likes Received:
    5,164
    I believe the elf bonus still applies, but I haven't actually researched it.
    As you can't mine while riding anyway the fact that gargoyles can't ride at all is less of a consideration
     
  4. popps

    popps Always Present
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2004
    Messages:
    13,445
    Likes Received:
    461

    Thanks for the replies.

    Well, my thinking was more like "if" Gargoyles had been benefitted over Elves in the chances to mine Crystalline Blackrock or lumberjack Crystal shards, then one would have had to make a choice whether wanting the advantage of using a rideable beetle (fire/blue) with an Elf or grab the bonus of an increased drop chance mining and lumberjacking with a Gargoyle but at the disadvantage of not being able to ride any beetle.

    The riding is not really to get there faster but more to prevent the pet from getting killed. Mounting the pet in a dangerous situation can often mean avoiding it to get killed and have to go through all the trouble of emptying the pack, getting it ressed or getting a new pet and so forth.

    If the Elf is still at an advantage, also for the Stygian Abyss resources of Crystalline Blackrock and Crystal Shards then, definately as I see it, there is no contest here and using an Elf is by far more advisable.

    I was wondering whether anyone had done extensive mining and lumberjacking already to be able to tell which is better off at mining Crystalline Blackrock or lumberjacking Crystal shards, whether an Elf or a Gargoyle.......
     
  5. Silverbird

    Silverbird Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2001
    Messages:
    1,405
    Likes Received:
    52
    Gargoyles cannot wear mining gloves. So I wouldnt recommend using one for mining. (Unless he has mining and mysticism for beeing a t-hunter and he would be someones only miner.)
     
  6. Aurelius

    Aurelius Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2004
    Messages:
    2,756
    Likes Received:
    689
    Can't say I've ever found this an issue if I'm sensible about where I go resource gathering - there are so many places where you can mine or lumberjack in almost total safety, it's just never arisen. And of course, if it's bonded, recall out fast and it will come with you.
     
  7. Mr. Smither1

    Mr. Smither1 Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2004
    Messages:
    345
    Likes Received:
    66
    A friend of mine turned him human lumberjack to elf and he swears he gets more shards now. I know when I was searching for heartwood I lumberjacked for like 3 days and I only got bout 2-3 shards per hour on my human char and very little heartwood in termur.
     
  8. gunneroforgin

    gunneroforgin Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 21, 2008
    Messages:
    1,297
    Likes Received:
    30
    Elves have a bonus for finding wood and and others items found while lumberjacking.
     
  9. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    2,416
    Likes Received:
    397
    The mushroom cave in Ish for the win. Add fisher to that miner as well as dexer skills. Gargoyle Pickaxe mining. Firebeetle & 2 packy.

    CBR & Tmaps from spawned rare ore eli.
    Dungeon area, so Niter chance.
    Drop lobster traps in water there (mine a bit while they fill)
    Fish waters also for dungeon class fish, pearls & scales (not yet to see if Ish bait works there)

    Set pick to mine granite. With prospector tool 5 val spots total in area.

    Side bonus. Paragon Rare Ore Eli with a chance at paragon chest ( if lucky same color as named eli gotten from).

    Moleman of LS
     
  10. popps

    popps Always Present
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2004
    Messages:
    13,445
    Likes Received:
    461

    Elves have higher chances for ML mining/lumberjacking.

    Perhaps this works for SA mining/lumberjacking too ??
     
  11. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    2,416
    Likes Received:
    397
    Untill they add a reaper hatchet for spawning rarewood treefolk jacking will take back seat. Backseat to 3 stumps, Brilliant Amber from quest and pottery shards sharing more then artwork.

    Have noticed the higher rarewood distrobution much better in garg lands then anywhere else. Just spiral jack around the royal gate once.
     
  12. Beastmaster

    Beastmaster Guest

    The only way to get a definitive answer is from the Devs. The Devs no longer respond to questions such as these so this thread is a waste. You could try posting it in the ask the Devs and maybe next Juvember when they get around to researching those you will get half an answer, but you may have to remind them what an elf is.
     
  13. Tinsil

    Tinsil Guest

    I don't think a Gargoyle is better off.. Now if an elf is better off at mining those, that's a good question. I wouldn't think so, but I don't have the actual evidence to prove it.
     
  14. Annonymous User

    Annonymous User Journeyman
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2009
    Messages:
    159
    Likes Received:
    0
    a little o.t but not much, and sense you guys are talking exactly about a question that I had last night....

    are elves the only race that can get bark and the different types of woods though lumber jacking ?


    I need a lot of bark, I don't know if I should use my gargoyle or move my lj to a elf....
     
  15. Tinsil

    Tinsil Guest

    You get more as an elf, but should get them as any as long as it's not a trial account.

    I think if you plan on doing very much LJing, it'd be worth it to just race change to an elf.
     
  16. Annonymous User

    Annonymous User Journeyman
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2009
    Messages:
    159
    Likes Received:
    0
    was just trying to save up the bark needed to make a new woodlands suit I got all the wood. I don't know much about lumber jacking just one of the skills I never took past like 30. Thanks for the information though!

    to the o.p:
    Sorry for high-jacking your thread for a minute. Thanks for allowing the trespass though !
     
  17. Zosimus

    Zosimus Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2004
    Messages:
    4,370
    Likes Received:
    720
    Elf is the way to go for ML and SA. I got plenty of Crystalline blackrock in ter mur on my elf. Easier to farm the spawn then mine for them though :p
     
  18. popps

    popps Always Present
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2004
    Messages:
    13,445
    Likes Received:
    461

    Good to know. Thanks.

    By the way, have you also done extensive lumberjacking in Ter Mur or Stygian Abyss with your elf ?

    I am asking, because I am in need of Crystal Shards and the Cavern of Discarded has a really low drop rate, at least for me. I have like a drop rate if 1 Crystal Shards every 2 hours or so.... Sure, I get also other stuff like essences, seeds, and so forth but I really need the Crystal Shards the most at this one time.......

    I was hoping that lumberjacking could be nicer to me for the Crystal shards I need, when using an Elf.......
     
  19. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
    Moderator Professional Wiki Moderator Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2003
    Messages:
    8,457
    Likes Received:
    582
    In my experience:
    Elf for Lumberjacking.
    Elf for mining special resources.
    HUMAN for mining ore & stone.

    I have both elf and human miners, and I've yet to see any appreciable difference in ore quality or amount between the two. There's occasionally a higher return for the special items, but there have been times where my human miner got triple the special gems that my former Guildmaster got mining with his elf at the same time, so who knows how much of that is the RNG being not-so-random.

    The description of how ore works appears to be flawed, after years of testing.
    There IS NOT a 40% chance of colored per spot that gives colored. It instead appears that each resource square has its own percentage for ore quality, so that if a square gives 75% on average colored, it will ALWAYS do so, as long as it's not currently iron-only (and that 75% will kick in if you use a prospector's Tool or garg pick, even then).
    I've seen places where the colored ore percentage was 10% or less; others where it seemed to average 80-90% - and the numbers NEVER CHANGED, regardless of what ore type was there (especially since I only mine with garg pics, and PT are almost always used).
    The Elf bonus that is supposed to apply to colored ore, according to some, appears to be applied as multiplying the chance for colored ore by 1.2, not adding a flat 20% to the (non-existent) 40% that is supposed to exist.
    If a human only gets 10% colored from a spot, an elf would average 12% (would you even notice). If the spot gives 70% colored (rare enough I still keep the dozen or so I found before randomization in a book), an elf would get 84%. It averages out to be the SAME 10% as humans get as extra ore, overall - perhaps less, since most spots appear to be less than 50% colored ore. Add in that most spots average around 8-12 digs, and it becomes even less noticable. That's if the 20% bonus for "Special materials" applies to ore, as it does to mining gems - and I'm still not convinced that's true, as the differences I've seen are well within the margins for the RNG.

    Humans have another advantage in that their strength, especially using a fire beetle, allows them to go MUCH longer mining between stops to unload (via recall or Bag of Sending), and allows them to carry more special tools to the workplace. This amounts to about 500 more ore (1000 more ingots) between stops. If you're crazy like me and mine in Ilshenar, the Abyss, Fel Dungeons or other places you can't recall INTO, this is a bit more important, as each stop is 2-5 minutes taken away from mining.
     
  20. popps

    popps Always Present
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2004
    Messages:
    13,445
    Likes Received:
    461

    Thank you Basara for the very helpfull information.

    By the way, besides Elves and Humans have you ever tried mining or lumberjacking with a Gargoyle ?

    I am trying to figure out whether it is better to still use an Elf or whether it would be better to use a Gargoyle when it comes to mining and lumberjacking for special Stygian Abyss resources (crystalline blackrock and crystal shards....).
     
  21. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
    Stratics Veteran 4H

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    7,527
    Likes Received:
    1,914
    and

    and

    Nice trend you have going there, Popps.

    :thumbup:
     
  22. WildWobble

    WildWobble Sage
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 21, 2008
    Messages:
    596
    Likes Received:
    15
    Elf is best.

    Gargoyal gets no bouns better use a human or elf garg got the shaft.

    And bassera the rng must hate you if you not seeing much diffrence between human and elf in % special ore / wood produced per spot.

    Also a small tip for the crystalline blackrock!

    Shadow iron elementals and Dull Copper elementals near where you tame the fire beetle will drop it fairly often 2 and a half hours farming them and i got 19k shadow iron 1.8k dull copper and 55 crystalline blackrock the other day beat that mineing! And was i happy when i got the crystalline blackrock off the dull copper ele i read somewhere uo guide i think said they do not drop it but they do!! about 1 in 20 elementals will drop a peice though rng factors in alot !!! can get a streek of 5 in 10 elementals then go for 15-20 min with none so be patiant it will come! not to mention over 100k gold killing the elementals and about 200 of each basic gem.
     
  23. Zosimus

    Zosimus Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2004
    Messages:
    4,370
    Likes Received:
    720
    Its random when I would LJ. Sometimes I be lucky and get 4 in an hour then nothing afterwards. Other times it be 1 or 2 an hour and nothing. The best trick I found out later was to go LJ random trees then going back to the same trees. I got an avg of 3 an hour doing that. Just mark areas in your rune book and hit a lot of trees in that area then rinse and repeat.
     
  24. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
    Moderator Professional Wiki Moderator Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2003
    Messages:
    8,457
    Likes Received:
    582
    No, I thoroughly tested it as opposed to assuming that the bonus existed in the form the devs stated (there's a bonus, but not in the form the devs have stated - something that has occurred on multiple occasions, ranging from the 8 year assumption that Tailor BODs were 50/50 normal/exceptional instead of the actual 2/1, to the statements that fish quests go 10/15/20 and hold at 20, instead of cycling back to 10 again).

    Furthermore, I DIDN'T state that humans were good for lumberjacking, so don't try to act like I said something I didn't.

    Wood gives more chops per tree for an elf (as much as double, in my tests), so an elf would be better even if the percentages were the same.

    Mining, on the other hand, with there being NINE types of ore and digs only giving one item base (instead of 10), is a bit more random.

    An Elf loses about 10% of their mining time making bank/house runs (or even stopping to use a BoS), but gets more special materials.

    The additional swings from an Elf, if there are any, aren't enough outside Fel to offset the random 10% chance for an additional ore for a human and the time lost to the additional time needed to offload. PERIOD.

    In Fel, the elf has a SLIGHT edge from possible additional digs (from the double ore not applying to the free ore), but not really much outside the normal RNG for a human. In my experience, the additional digs tend to be to get additional small/medium ore.

    The same holds true for stone, and before the reduction of granite weights for SA, it was even more important to have that carry capacity.

    Have it set for gems and ore, and the lack of real advantage is even more apparent.

    The ore differences pretty much balance out, especially if you don't mine Fel, leaving only the strength advantage as a factor.

    In other words, if you're mining to supply your Imbuer, go with Elf.
    But, if you're mining to supply your Blacksmith, a Human is still an option, if not actually preferred.
    The jury's still out on Stone mining, since the stones weigh 1 each now.