1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Greetings Guest!!

    In order to combat SPAM on the forums, all users are required to have a minimum of 2 posts before they can submit links in any post or thread.

    Dismiss Notice

Gargoyles flying ability

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Lord Chaos, Apr 18, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    10,075
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gargoyles flying ability should really take up 1 control slot (considering it takes some concentration to control your flight), to offset that it actually allows you to move around like you're mounted and more.

    This means no more cheating with Greater Dragons, as you wouldn't have enough control slots to fly at the same time, so you'll have to walk like the rest.

    Gargoyles are more than enough overpowered as it is, so nothing wrong with nerfing flying just a little bit.
     
  2. Konge

    Konge Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2006
    Messages:
    1,045
    Likes Received:
    2
    overpowered? Sure....
     
  3. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    10,075
    Likes Received:
    0
    They have some pretty good racial abilities. Not to mention they can fly. Which currently means that they can run around with a GD without the limitations the other two races have.
     
  4. Gelf

    Gelf Guest

    And the other races have there own advantages,which gargs don't have. thats called balance, if anything there still abit below human/elves
     
  5. Konge

    Konge Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2006
    Messages:
    1,045
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ok.

    They get 20 Throwing

    5HCI and 50 HCI cap

    30 mysticism

    2mr

    Berzerk

    Flying.

    small imbuing bonus

    Humans

    2hpr

    20 all skills (they get 3mr/2sr from this)

    higher weight capacity

    Crafting stuff

    Elf

    20 base mana

    75 energy resist cap

    night sight

    Harder to detect

    passive detection

    crafting stuffs

    Humans and elves can MOUNT

    mounting gives increased movement speeds, tamers to care around a decent pet with them (dread, nightmare, ki-rin, whatever)

    a possible 20+% Damage reduction in PvM.

    Gargs can't.

    Flying is the equivelent of Ostard form, but with a longer casting time, and the ability to be disrupted.

    Move on.
     
  6. Vertigo

    Vertigo Guest

    Do you just make this stuff up?
    Where does it say that it takes concentration for gargs to fly?
    Why do you think it's cheating with G. Drags? I do the same on my ninja tamer.
    Does that mean I cheat?

    And if gargs are so overpowered then why doesn't everybody play them? Right now they're the most underutilized race in Sosaria.

    Those are some very ignorant comments.

    Jeeze
     
  7. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Messages:
    6,680
    Likes Received:
    824
    Doesn't flying drain stam quite a bit? To off-set this I'd imagine you would want to have either Focus or a lot of dex. I would think a ninja tamer would be a heck of a lot more powerful than a gargoyle tamer who relies on flying.

    Before gargoyles actually made it in there was a ton of complaining about how people thought gargoyles with their flying would be terribly overpowered. But ever since the release all I hear now is how underpowered they are due to their racial abilities and penalties.

    Flying isn't as good as it's made out to be when you actually try it out. I've tried out gargoyles on test to see what it's really like and at the moment I am not entirely impressed. Some people like them but they're just not that great for me. Humans/elves at the moment are a tad better. Armor is a heck-of-a lot easier to come by and they can actually ride mounts.
     
  8. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2001
    Messages:
    30,881
    Likes Received:
    5,164
    Yes it does. A gargoyle with low dex, no focus and no sr items can get about half a screen before running out of stamina. I tried it during beta. To move around on my gargoyle crafter I imbued SR2 on each piece of her armor.
     
  9. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2004
    Messages:
    2,385
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gargoyles are overpowered... really?

    Oh yes gargoyles are super op when I am imbuing on my mule.

    Oh throwing is overpowered as well right?
     
  10. Of course! I've got it! You're popps jr! How could I have missed that?......
     
  11. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    The limitations the other two races have? You mean having 70 ninja so you can be mounted all the time with your gd? People have pointed that out, but seriously. Also I have gone over the racial abilities before, side by side. You have mr 2, Humans gets mr3. You have flying, removing the ability to be mounted plus needing excess amount of stamina and stamina regen. 20 throwing? humans have that.....30 mystic, 10 more than humans..... what else? oh right, the last ability. Beserk, ok this one is decent but seriously, are you going to allow your health to stay low enough to benefit from this? if you are a dexxer type, soon as you take damage you start healing (assuming you have healing) if not, you wait till you are x and use a pot, or any other way you heal. If you are a mage, you are spending the entire time running away trying to heal, not doing any damage.

    the 5hci over cap.....gives you a 2%chance to hit your opponent over what their chance is, not very "overpowered"

    ....Know what, I have gone on long enough considering the intellect presented here.
     
  12. No, they don't. Throwing is Garg only. Humans can't use it.
     
  13. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    I hope this is a sarcastic remark....Humans have 20 in every skill they can use, seeing as how throwing is only an equivalent I do not see how it matters if i said gargoyles have 20 anatomy, and humans have 20 tactics. Sure the skills are different in name, and slightly different in use.

    My point has nothing to do with the specific skill, it has to do with 20 throwing = humans 20 archery or humans 20 swords, or how about humans have 20 in every fighting skill while gargoyles only have 20 in one?
     
  14. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    10,075
    Likes Received:
    0
    Jeez, are you just trolling? Ninja tamers take up a whole skill set, gargoyle flying ability is for free.

    Why doesn't everyone play them? Lack of equipment in circulation, shared equipment on accounts, they look ugly as hell and not everyone has upgraded to SA.

    Will have to test that again...though I moved around flying for a long long time without any SR at all. Perhaps that was removed in the latest big patch that tweaked gargoyles?
     
  15. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest


    Not everyone shares your opinion. Not everyone thinks they are overpowered (proven here so far). And EVERYONE would upgrade if they thought gargoyles were overpowered, so yea.....2 out of three of your answers do not even make sense, and the third is a standpoint of your own and not a point of proof.
     
  16. Sprago

    Sprago Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend IPKU

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2006
    Messages:
    1,768
    Likes Received:
    169
    if they cant wear near to that of what a human can wear how can they be overpowered i play a gargoyle and they are not overpowered by no means
     
  17. Aibal

    Aibal Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    Messages:
    1,292
    Likes Received:
    170
    Just another case of what popps jr. doesn't like, or want, should be nerfed.
     
  18. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    10,075
    Likes Received:
    0
    This happens all over the board by many people. It is a fairly overpowered ability to by default have a 0 control slot mount that you can't get dismounted from. (afaik, you can't get dismounted or knocked out of flying)
     
  19. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    Uhm....No, if they were overpowered everyone would spend the money, if they were overpowered everyone would change them despite their look. I suppose I should not say "everyone" but.....hmm no real good way to put it how I want to say it, so im going to stick with everyone. Also, as I said it is not point of proof as to why you don't see that many.

    Nvm, I do not even care about your crusade enough to continue this.

    The second part of your post though, Are you saying a lot of people complain and cry nerf? It would be true, but I was just wondering if it is what you meant. Also...not being able to be dismounted? since when? I have not played a gargoyle since beta, and have not seen a single one in pvp, so can't even begin to try and test your theory on that.
     
  20. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    10,075
    Likes Received:
    0
    You forgot the issue about gear. Like if I have 4 chars that share a Crimson for instance and I change one into a gargoyle, that gargoyle wouldn't be able to wear the crimsom (if they can wear that one directly, then take any other artifact)

    I definetly wouldn't switch to Gargoyle (neither would most others I know) on my main chars, even if Gargoyles were a lot more powerful. Its not all about power.
     
  21. You said humans have Throwing. This is an incorrect statement. It was corrected. If you meant something else you should have typed that instead. You didn't put "but I really mean this..." in parentheses, you simply said Humans have Throwing, and they don't. Additionally, Throwing is in no way comparable to archery. Sure, they're both ranged skills, but so is Magery, and you wouldn't say Magery and Archery were anything alike.
     
  22. Sprago

    Sprago Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend IPKU

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2006
    Messages:
    1,768
    Likes Received:
    169
    HOLY**** dude you have no clue to what you are talking about gargoyles can to be dismounted/knocked outta flying.

    Apparently you have never played a gargoyle and have no clue to what you are talking about nuff said
     
  23. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Messages:
    6,680
    Likes Received:
    824
    Chaos...that answered the question about dismounting gargoyles in like 4-5 consecutive FoFs' before the release of SA. Each time the devs confirmed that you CAN indeed dismount gargoyles with a bola and every other item that can dismount players. Perhaps you're the reason they had to answer the same question repeatedly in FoF! Clearly it still didn't get through though, lol.

    So here's an idea. Go play a gargoyle. Go play one to get an idea of what you're trying to argue. Know what you're going to talk about before you talk about it.
     
  24. Aibal

    Aibal Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    Messages:
    1,292
    Likes Received:
    170
    Don't bother, that would be a first for him. He'll never let the facts get in the way of his cry for nerfs. Oh well, I sit here lmfao as post after board warrioring post he makes himself look the fool.
     
  25. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    10,075
    Likes Received:
    0
    Do you have a reading comprehension problem? Do you know what AFAIK means??

    Even if you can be dismounted (its not like I PvP, so I don't really get dismounted as a garg), it still doesn't alter the fact that its like a free control slot mount. The whole balance point for Greater Dragons was that a basic tamer couldn't ride a mount and as such would have to walk around with it, balancing out its power. This can be helped with animal form, but that requires you to have an additional skill on your template, its not just for free.

    I already have a gargoyle. They're ugly as hell still.
     
  26. Vertigo

    Vertigo Guest

    AFAIK, everybody thinks you're an idiot, lol.

    Go troll elsewhere.
     
  27. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    10,075
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well, if I honestly cared about what a few pathetic posters thought of me, I might give a ****.

    And you're projecting, the vast majority of your posts are trolls or flames.
     
  28. LordDrago

    LordDrago Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2004
    Messages:
    1,500
    Likes Received:
    393
    *looks over Uhall threads*

    hmmmm. Looks like Lord Chaos has been killed by a Sampire and a Gargoyle Tamer in rather short order. Yes, these two templates MUST be nerfed immediately if they are able to so easily defeat such a mighty warrior as Lord Chaos.

    Please Lord Chaos: make a complete list of all the rtrest of the templates that own you on a regular basis. Then we can have the Devs nerf them all at once for you.

    \Sarcasm

    Gargoyles, after this last publish, are finally moving int he direction were they are usefull as mroe than mules. There is still a bit of tweaking that can be done, but a nerf is not in order, and control slots is not something that needs to be looked into.
     
  29. sablestorm

    sablestorm Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2008
    Messages:
    1,948
    Likes Received:
    317
    As it takes concentration to ride a mount (lest you fall off), perhaps horses should require 2 control slots. ;)
     
  30. Widow Maker

    Widow Maker Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    Messages:
    1,391
    Likes Received:
    42
    Well..I am not projecting and I don't know you but I did go read a few of your posts.

    Vertigo is kinda right...well..ok..he's right.

    You should really play more or experience what you are trying to post about because you seem to be "mistaken" or "misguided" more than you are close to being right.
     
  31. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    10,075
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ok, lets play then. Can you please point out where I am wrong and misguided?

    This thread isn't, I am of the opinion that it should be balanced by taking up a control slot when gargoyles fly. Nothing I said in the post was mistaken. And people wouldn't be opposed to it if it didn't affect them, but since they oppose it, they know its a problem, but don't want a slight nerf to it being gargs themselves.
     
  32. Shanny

    Shanny Guest

    Well with as slow as the greaters walk they do the flying garg tamer a ton of good 5 screens behind them. Mute point about the control slot for flying.
     
  33. LordDrago

    LordDrago Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2004
    Messages:
    1,500
    Likes Received:
    393
    You seem to make a lot of very gerneral statements about everyone with very little concrete evidence to back it up. I do not think Gargoyles are overpowered, but do not play one, so your statement that everyone against a nerf is a garg who likes being overpowered is wrong. Just like your statemetn in another post that looting script downloads are high so everyone in UO must be using them. It is a very small tweak to the script to have it work on freeshards, and although I still play UO excusively, I have a large number of friends that enjoy freeshards and play there most of the time, using auto loot scripts they have downloaded and tweaked.

    And as far as being mistaken in this thread, you stated that flying gargs could not be dismounted, but they can.

    You really do seem to be Popps Jr. who refuses to listen to any counterarguments to your opinion. Excellent observation Connor_Graham. :)
     
  34. Konge

    Konge Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2006
    Messages:
    1,045
    Likes Received:
    2
    THE point is, Gargs aren't overpowered. Move on. K thx bye. /end thread. Happy new year. Whatever
     
  35. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    10,075
    Likes Received:
    0
    I didn't say everyone against it is. I didn't say Gargoyles are overpowered, I said that it should take up a control slot, thats all, thats merely a tweak. If gargoyles truly are ok with their abilities, then them taking up a control slot wouldn't hurt them.

    First of all its counted how much its used on EA shards for the most of them. And if you compare the usage rate to the actual amount of people looting, then its a large portion of those that use it. And your statement that omg, only freesharders would ever "cheat" is silly to say the least. Most likely you're a scripter yourself trying to downplay how much these programs and scripts are used so EA won't do anything against them, lol.

    No staffer here I have had contact with have not used one, everyone except one I know use it, most people I see use it (its not that hard to spot people using it, especially the EC looter)...you on the other hand have NOTHING to disprove my statements.

    lol, either you're trolling or just don't read so well. I didn't state that, I stated that AS FAR AS I KNOW they can't. It is however irrelevant to the main issue whether they can be dismounted when flying or not.
     
  36. 1. Never used one in the past - Check

    2. Don't currently use one - Check

    3. No need to disprove anything - Check

    :popcorn:
     
  37. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    10,075
    Likes Received:
    0
    So you claim.

    So you claim.

    So you claim.
     
  38. Konge

    Konge Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2006
    Messages:
    1,045
    Likes Received:
    2
    Why aren't you arguing that Animal form should take up a control slot?
     
  39. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    10,075
    Likes Received:
    0
    Because its balanced by it taking up a skill slot. Gargoyles flying ability is racial, so they don't really have to sacrifice anything for it.

    Though that said, it could be argued that Animal Form should take 1 control slot too and I would not be adverse to that.
     
  40. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
    Stratics Veteran 4H

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    7,527
    Likes Received:
    1,914
    The June 26, 2009 FoF Q&A about dismounting as it relates to gargoyle characters is here: http://www.uoherald.com/fof/?fofId=161.

    Also, this June 5, 2009 FoF shows that the developers did discuss internally the issue of whether or not gargoyle flying should take up a control slot: http://www.uoherald.com/fof/?fofId=158. Since they made no change by the time SA was released over three months later (ample time to program a change), I think it's safe to assume they decided against initially releasing gargoyles with such a limitation. They may have decided to take a wait-and-see approach and implement such a limitation only if/when it became necessary.
     
  41. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Messages:
    6,680
    Likes Received:
    824
    What exactly does reading comprehension got to do with knowing what AFAIK means? You never explained what it means in this thread at all therefore it has nothing to do with reading comprehension. Keep in mind also, not everyone is up to date on the current slangs and abbreviations, lol.

    Of course knowing what it means also has nothing to do with the fact that you are still completely wrong about not being about to dismount flying gargoyles. In addition, saying as far as I know before stating something inaccurate doesn't excuse you from being wrong when you're trying to use it as proof.
     
  42. Konge

    Konge Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2006
    Messages:
    1,045
    Likes Received:
    2
    And gargs are balanced by not being able to use a mount, ethy summoning time. Woohoo.
     
  43. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Messages:
    6,680
    Likes Received:
    824
    And of course gargoyles will also need focus or some careful work to compensate for the draining of the stam whilst flying. At the moment at least unless the devs do some tinkering.
     
  44. canary

    canary Guest

    Not that I necessarily agree with Lord Chaos (I don't even know him), but he brings a simple opinion to the table and suddenly I notice 2-3 people instantly start trolling/ bashing him in this thread, unprovoked.

    He wasn't nasty regarding his opinion. He didn't curse regarding his opinion. He didn't come out of the gate fighting at particular individuals...

    Just disagree and move on. It's in poor taste posting to him and trolling 'just because'. I thought we had rules set in place to promote community? Hm.
     
  45. Mapper

    Mapper Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2005
    Messages:
    3,528
    Likes Received:
    110
    A racial ability should not take up a slot, As been said they can't run for long unless they have alot of Dex, And a GD is very slow anyway, So running ahead is pointless because your GD will be stuck fighting stuff you can't see.

    Sorry, totally disagree with you here. :( I look forward to your next thread.
     
  46. Shanny

    Shanny Guest

    Well really if we want to look at balance it really stinks that I have to waste an imbuing spot on my armor/jewels for night sight when elves have it as a racial ability and do not have to give up anything for it. (I do not feel this way, makign a point to LC)

    Different races, different abilities. Strengths and weakness to all 3 depending on your play style and your personal skill set. Perfect balance between every little thing in UO would make it very boring.
     
  47. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    10,075
    Likes Received:
    0
    Don't know you either, but thanks for your observation. :thumbup1:

    Of course people will now excuse it by saying I deserve it because they don't like what I post in general. rolleyes:
     
  48. Stupid Miner

    Stupid Miner Guest

    No. There's no need for this.

    "Cheating with Greater Dragons"?
    That statement's laughable at best. The issue was thoroughly debated throughout Beta testing. The devs are well aware that Gargoyles can Fly with Greater Dragons in tow, and they have been aware since long before SA was released.

    Gargoyles aren't overpowered, and this change is unnecessary.
     
  49. Opaque Words

    Opaque Words Guest

    I personally play a garg tamer and love that I can run and use a Gdragon at the same time, but a gdrag is slow so it wont keep up with you if you are running at full speed you constantly have to stop and let it catch up so no help there the only thing it helps with is being able to run away and that is for a short ways as flying eats up huge amounts of stamina. as for berserk I get no help there as I am a mage and dont use the bonuses it gives. Flying aslo has a casting time and can be interrupted as you are trying to get into the air and since you cant use a mount it means if you get dismounted you are basically stuck walking unless the person attacking you is distracted. The comments you made leave me wondering if you ever tried a garg tamer or just saw one running around with a dragon. Try the character out before you complain about them.
     
  50. maroite

    maroite Guest

    Do you own stock in Kleenex? Cause you sure to cry a lot. I think every post you have made in the past two weeks has been some whine about something you feel is overpowered.

    Cheating with greater dragons? How is it cheating when you can just as easily turn your tamer into a gargoyle and do the same thing?

    Just because you choose not to doesn't make it cheating.

    You're full of crap. I had to rebuild my mage/tamers suit because at first it didn't have any sr on it.

    Now I have 40 sta, and about 8 sr and I still can run out of stamina while flying. Put this into prospective in Fel, when you push through an NPC it can be very hindering.

    Yeah, you also didn't mention that gargoyles CANT MOUNT. Meaning I can't ride a nightmare, ki'rin, unicorn, dreadmare, cu sidhe (BTW Pads can be converted now, not that its useful...) Horse, faction horses, ethereals, do you want me to continue?

    Yeah... he called every garg tamer who uses a GD a cheater. No offense, but accusing people of cheating is pretty inflamatory.

    Not to mention he didn't offer any supporting evidence of WHY it should be changed, and he left out key information about how Gargs are actually balanced, or... underbalanced to the other races.

    We do have rules set in place to promote community, but last time I checked, accusing people of cheating was against those rules?
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.