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Gargoyles Race Bonus has no minuses ??

Discussion in 'UHall' started by popps, Sep 6, 2009.

  1. popps

    popps Always Present
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    I was reading at the Stygian Abyss FAQ at http://www.uoherald.com/stygianabyss/gameoverview/faq/ and saw the following


    Ok, so it is clear that the Gargoyles receive a Racial. bonus for Imbuing, Mysticism, and Throwing.

    Question is, if they have a bonus in these 3 skills are they disadvantaged in something else?

    If so, in doing what ?
     
  2. Zodia

    Zodia Guest

    Re: Gargoyles Race Bonus has no minues ??

    Gargoyles cannot use archery.

    Gargoyles cannot ride mounts (horses, nitemares, beetles, etc.)
     
  3. Vexxed

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    Re: Gargoyles Race Bonus has no minues ??

    -Gargoyles CANNOT use the Archery skill.

    -Gargoyles CANNOT wear crimson Cintures

    -Gargoyles CANNOT wear Lieutenant Sash's

    -Gargoyles can only wear GARGOYLE or converted to GARGOYLE armor...

    -Gargoyles CANNOT ride Mounts

    Anyway.. those were just off the top of my head and some aren't too bad it just depends on what's what when it all goes live.
     
  4. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    Re: Gargoyles Race Bonus has no minues ??

    They don't have the human or elven traits.

    Humans get
    JOAT
    More resources when mining/lumberjacking (eg 11 logs per chop instead of 10)
    Increased HPR
    Increased backpack weight


    Elves get
    +20 mana
    Increased chances of getting special resources (those gems from mining and brillant amber/fungi/bark from lumberjacking)
    Less likely to get revealed when stealthing
    Perma nightsight
    Can wear both elven and human equipment


    Gargs don't get any of the above. And they can't wear human or elven equipment. Of course, neither human or elves can wear gargoyole equipment either.
     
  5. guum

    guum Guest

    Re: Gargoyles Race Bonus has no minues ??

    Well, as of the end of the open beta, they can't ride mounts, so they have to use flying, which eats stamina like crazy, therefore forcing them to take focus or stam regen gear if they want to go at more than a normal run -- ok for GD-toting tamers, maybe, but bad for most other templates. And they can't use any of the ancilliary gear slots (stuff like crimsons, lieutenant guard sashes, quivers, etc.). Also, gear not made for gargoyles doesn't get the extra armor they need (due to having only 4 armor slots) when converted to gargoyle gear. And they don't have JOAT. And they don't get the +20 mana.

    In fact, since the jewelry slots were changed to use armor mods, I feel pretty comfortable saying that, if anything, they are the *most* gimped race.
     
  6. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Re: Gargoyles Race Bonus has no minues ??

    But any other crafting skill they would be 100% fine like for Blacksmithying, Tailoring, Glassblowing, Alchemy, Tinkering etc. etc. ?

    Aside from archery there is no other skill which they are at a disadvantage from using ?

    By the way, if they cannot use archery, does it mean that not being able to "test" the weapons they make they ALSO cannot use the Bowcraft/Fletching skill ?

    I mean, it does not make much sense to have a character make bows, perhaps expert ones and top notch bows when that character is at the same time not able to ever make an experience at testing them because of being incapacitated to use the archery skill......
     
  7. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Re: Gargoyles Race Bonus has no minues ??


    What do you mean by saying that they are the *most* gimped race ?
     
  8. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    Big potential minus: The poor things will be able to use very few items you might already own. You can't just hand them a suit and weapons you use on an existing human or elf character. Crafting requirements to make new gear (e.g., a chest piece) could be substantially higher than the crafting requirement for a comparable piece for a human or elf character.

    In short, expect to spend a lot of time and possibly gold equipping your gargoyle character and give strong consideration to training Imbuing to create very customized pieces of gear.

    If you do convert some of your existing pieces of gear for your gargoyle to use, keep in mind you will not be able to convert it to once again be usable by a human or elf character.

    Popps, did you get on Retribution and try out anything at all during the open beta??
     
  9. guum

    guum Guest

    Re: Gargoyles Race Bonus has no minues ??

    Re-read everything above the part you quoted. If that doesn't help clear it up, I can't help ya.
     
  10. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Re: Gargoyles Race Bonus has no minues ??

    ...then don't make a gargoyle with Bowcraft/Fletching. Or you could simply have another character of your own test it.

    But anyways, yes, they have plenty of minuses already posted above.
     
  11. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    Re: Gargoyles Race Bonus has no minues ??

    Just in case, Guum means "gimped" as in weak/ineffectual.

    As opposed to "pimped out", which people would have said if the gargoyles had gotten traits for all 3 races...

    I'm guessing gimp probably evolved from shortening "gay pimp".
     
  12. guum

    guum Guest

    Re: Gargoyles Race Bonus has no minues ??

    LOL. Indeed. My apologies for my east coast US slang -- it's a mildly offensive term anyway. I really shouldn't use it. But yeah, I mean that they don't look so hot.
     
  13. Saunders

    Saunders Lore Keeper
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    Re: Gargoyles Race Bonus has no minues ??

    Gimp is an old slang word, meaning lame in the literal as well as the metaphorical sense.
     
  14. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Re: Gargoyles Race Bonus has no minues ??

    Well, you say that "the jewelry slots were changed to use armor mods" and because of that you "feel pretty comfortable saying that, if anything, they are the *most* gimped race".


    Now, last I new the Gargoyles came with MORE jewellery slots and LESS Armour slots.

    Now, my understanding is that +skill items which allow a gimped template are allowed on jewellery items, not armour (saved the few armour/weapons artifacts out there having +skill mods).

    But then you say "jewelry slots were changed to use armor mods" making me think that the more jewellery slots ability was taken away to give more armour ability.

    Hence, I no longer understand how LESS jewellery slots and MORE armour slots can make it for a more "gimped" template.....
     
  15. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Re: Gargoyles Race Bonus has no minues ??

    Doh, I thought a "Gimp" template was a template using up a salad of skills.....

    Like for example a SampireNoxNecroTamer...................
     
  16. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    OK Popps here we go again. On the left hand side of UOStratics main page right above the box that has the skills is a box that says, OMG get ready for it, Races. Now if you open that up it shows, get ready for it, all three races and if you click on them it will, get ready for it, show you the Racial Abilities each race has. Do you or have you ever played UO or did you just read about it?
     
  17. Alezi

    Alezi Lore Keeper
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    Wasn't really surprised to see popps whine about yet another injustice..
     
  18. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    Re: Gargoyles Race Bonus has no minues ??

    Popps:

    Simply put, the gargoyles have 4 "jewelry" slots

    2 are normal jewelry spots, like every other character; the other 2 are the "armor jewelry" slots which only have armor stats.

    No "4 skill jewelry pieces" or "4 armor jewelry pieces". 2 of each.
     
  19. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    And the sad part is, he doesn't even read anything out there before he posts his whine here. UOStratics had the info on thier main page if he just looked.
     
  20. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    Re: Gargoyles Race Bonus has no minues ??

    Somewhere in UO history, "gimp" picked up a different meaning, that may not exist outside UO discussion groups.

    It is often used to refer to "broken" templates that allow players to use skills and equipment in a manner the devs did not originally intend -

    For example, the old Sampire templates that required the user to put on +70 Necro equipment to cast Vampiric Embrace, then switch to their normal armor suit, that eventually required the devs to make it to where you had to have to keep the Necro skill at the level to cast the skill, or drop out of Vampire form.

    In other words, it went from meaning "lame" as in weak, to "lame" as in overpowered through potentially exploitative tactics.
     
  21. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Re: Gargoyles Race Bonus has no minues ??

    Can't use existing head, neck, hands slot items. Can they convert weapons? I never tried. If not, well man, sucks to be them.

    If you ask me they have way more disadvantage than any other race. Thier only ADvantage is that they can move at mount speed without taking up a follower slot, and I doubt that will even last...
     
  22. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    Re: Gargoyles Race Bonus has no minues ??

    They can convert weapons, but the speed and damage change, and you can't get the same combination of special moves on each weapon like you can now.



    So yeah, gargoyles pretty much suck tbh.
     
  23. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Re: Gargoyles Race Bonus has no minues ??

    Wow... yeah they really do. I mean I guess id have to see what weapons turn into what, and what specials those have, but... man they just have to start from square one more or less.
     
  24. Pawain

    Pawain Crazed Zealot
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    popps, Each race get special "advantages". They also do not get disadvantages. Why should gargoyles?

    During open beta, I asked what template would gain an advantage from being a gargoyle. Nobody came up with one other than a tamer or stealther. And the only advantage is that they can move at mounted speed.

    Personally I will be glad that I will not have to see all the wing flapping bank sitters.
     
  25. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    Well if you have imbuing you get a bonus.
     
  26. Re: Gargoyles Race Bonus has no minues ??

    Berserk... when your hp drops below (think its) 30 you lose 5 in every resist and gain 15 SSI, 1 FC. Really helpful when you're dying. They should rename it 'Finish Him!'.
     
  27. guum

    guum Guest

    Re: Gargoyles Race Bonus has no minues ??

    Don't you mean, "I'm dying! Finish *me*!"? ;)
     
  28. Re: Gargoyles Race Bonus has no minues ??

    No I don't. It was a reference to Mortal Kombat. If it had been litererally accurate the reference may have been lost.
     
  29. guum

    guum Guest

    Re: Gargoyles Race Bonus has no minues ??

    Yeah I got the reference...I just wasn't clear on the pronoun's antecedent.

    Coffee time. ;)
     
  30. EnigmaMaitreya

    EnigmaMaitreya Crazed Zealot
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    Crap ..... :cursing:

    I had anticipated converting my Human Tamer to a Gargoyle, my Human Crafter to a Gargoyle and my Elf Resource Gather to a Gargoyle.

    Now that the dot is connected that I should have seen during Open Beta, I am no longer clear I am going to do that.

    The Mage -0 Magery(110+) is so key to that Tamer that I am not sure I am willing to give it up, let alone the unknown about the Skill Mods on the Ring and Bracelet.

    The Resource Gatherer, again I am not sure I want to send him out butt naked.

    The Crafter, *Shrug* she don't go no were anyways so .....

    As to the word Gimp ....

    Although I have seen a few people use the Term as Basara defines it, on both UO and EQ.
     
  31. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    Why would you need to give it up?
     
  32. EnigmaMaitreya

    EnigmaMaitreya Crazed Zealot
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    Because I could find no Mage -0 Weapon they could equip during Open Beta, I settled for a Mage -20 Weapon with Magery @ 120. Imbuing, at least on my menu, only allowed a Mage -20. I did make all the Gargoyle Weapons (as far as I know) and had no reason to believe that a Mage -0 Weapon was possible. Now one may be in there as a Reward from things done in the Abyss etc, but again it is not reasonable for me to expect to acquire one in a short time.

    There is also the unknown in terms of cost and out come of converting my Armor pieces wich have a 101 LRC and mostly crap (mid 40's) resists, with the exception of Fire and Poison which is mid 60's.

    I do not have the Gold to re-do the character(s) itemization in a quick turn around, so any way I cut it, to take advantage of the Conversion Tokens, I would need to do it over a prolonged period of time. With the only advantage to me being the Flying = a Poof Mount, which I can not get (as rewards) for another 2.2 years(?)
     
  33. guum

    guum Guest

    As it stands now, aside from roleplayers, the only folks who are likely to play gargoyles are PVP Tamers and imbuers. Hopefully they'll get a little boost (personally, I thought the two extra jewelry slots made for an interesting compensation for all their downsides), but until then, elves and humans are a better choice for pretty much everything.
     
  34. You can alter say a Staff Of Magi, Swords Of Prosperity. You use a Carpentry tool for the Staff & Smith tool for the Swords. You need at least 100 skill (in whichever tool) to alter.
     
  35. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    Why would you make a gargoyle tamer? Is it for the gargoyles speed while flying? Which pets will be able to keep up with him while flying? I read that a pet at 125 dex can keep up with a non-mounted player and everytime I take out a pet while riding my Cu Ethie I have to wait for them, if I am not mounted they have no problem keeping up with me. So can pet now keep up with a flying gargoyle?
     
  36. EnigmaMaitreya

    EnigmaMaitreya Crazed Zealot
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    Ok, that was something I never even knew existed in during the Open Beta, so how does one alter an Item to be Gargoyle Friendly?
     
  37. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
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    It's an option on the crafting menus.

    You need 100 skill in the appropriate craft and have to be standing beside a soulforge to do it.

    If there is an equivalent gargoyle item you transform an item ... not everything has an equivalent item: for example you can't alter a helmet, gorget or gloves to be a gargoyle item because there is no matching gargoyle item (so whatever you do, don't start altering a sorcerer suit or else you'll be in a world of hurt because you won't be able to alter some pieces and you cannot alter things back!).

    There is no risk of failure. Although you can alter armor, it's best used for weapons only because of the way resists are naturally higher on gargoyle armor.
     
  38. Gelf

    Gelf Guest

    u use the tool for whichever skill would make. for example blacksmith for swords of prosperity, carpenter forwoodland leggings ect. also not all things can be converted no gloves, hats or neck pieces( not sure about pendant of the magi.

    after testing out abit i figured they would become elite class 1A primo bank sitters(or flappers if u prefer).
     
  39. Sabbath

    Sabbath Guest

    I have tried to find this answer on my own but have yet to find it.

    Can someone tell me what would happen to the archery skill points if you converted an Archer character to a gargoyle? Would the points drop to zero? Would they remain and count against the 720 cap but be treated as "zero"?

    I wouldn't dare convert an archer character but I was wondering what would happen.
    Thanks!
     
  40. Pinco

    Pinco UOEC Modder
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    Gargoyles vs Templates:

    Warrior/Archer/Thrower:
    - Human: JOAT give a big advantage in this template
    - Elf: has +20 mana and 75 cap in energy resistance can be usefull (human still better)
    - Gargoyle: berserk if you are near the death (SSI and DI bonus)

    Mage:
    - Human: JOAT is always nice (but is not a must for this template)
    - Elf: +20 mana can be very usefull
    - Gargoyle: nothing (berserk give +1 casting but for a mage with FC capped is unusefull)

    Tamer:
    - Human: JOAT is usefull
    - Elf: can tame cu-sidhe and +20 mana is good for heal
    - Gargoyle: can fly but you can't tame cu sidhes.

    Thief:
    - Human: maybe JOAT for some templates...
    - Elf: hard to be revealed is nice!
    - Gargoyle: nothing.

    Worker:
    - Human: extra weight and collect more resources
    - Elf: better chance to get rare resources
    - Gargoyle: better chance in imbuing skill and a 3% bonus in basic enhance (with 120 imbuing)

    My opinion:

    Warrior: human still better
    Mage: human/elf are better
    Tamer: human/elf are better
    Thief: elf is better
    Worker: if you don't want to have imbuing human/elf still better else gargoyle is nice.

    My answer to the main question:
    Gargoyle has enough minus and they no need more, maybe they need almost 1 usable bonus XD
     
  41. EnigmaMaitreya

    EnigmaMaitreya Crazed Zealot
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    *Shrug* I am reasonably confident my memory is my Gargoyle was transferred a Cu Sidhe and was able to command it. I did need to tame it with an Elf from my other account and I was not able to ride it.

    You can not stealth while mounted either. I pretty much see the Gargoyle Flying, in this context equal to a Poof Mount, one of the Ethereal Mounts, Challenger etc.
     
  42. Pinco

    Pinco UOEC Modder
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    yes, it's true, the pads allow you only to ride it :p

    about the thief, well, human is like the gargoyle in this class no bonus at all :)