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Getting some ideas and feedback vendor search

Discussion in 'UHall' started by cazador, Dec 28, 2012.

  1. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    Does anyone think it would be cool to have with vendor search maybe in moonglow a auction house?

    Where u can set buyout/time/cool downs ..cross shard support if they remove check and turn it into a gold balance per account and for a gold fee you can xfer it to another shard?
     
  2. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    I just would like a shard based vendor search. I don't want any stupid auction house please don't make folk any lazier in this game. I think a vendor search that gives the name of the vendor and the facet with co-ordinates is JUST FINE. I know my way round a sextant. I mean that's going a bit far.

    I don't think it would be a good deal at all to do things across shards.
     
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  3. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    We should, I submit, not discuss vendor search in the same breath as auction house.

    They are related only in that both involve the in-game commerce system.

    Beyond that they are entirely separate proposals and as I recall a previous team's conflation of the two prevented the vendor search from being seriously considered on its own merits for quite some time.

    -Galen's player
     
  4. Lady Laurel

    Lady Laurel Seasoned Veteran
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    I would love them to implement the in-game vendor search, but PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE no Auction House!

    And I really do not think that it would be a good idea for a cross-shard ability. Yes, it would make it easier to get some of the things that I want, but I do not think it is a good idea in the long run.
     
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  5. CovenantX

    CovenantX Babbling Loonie
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    Auction House would be fine. There just needs to be a limit on how many auctions you can hold per account. maybe 5 auctions per account each week or something like that. so it wouldn't become the Only place to sell stuff (town takes a 15% gold tax) would make it a little easier on people without vendors.
     
  6. KLOMP

    KLOMP Sage

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    Dear shop owners,

    I hate to break it to you guys, but nobody really cares about visiting your place. I know you think your shop has "an identity" and you carefully decorate it to reflect that, but in reality you're a set of sextant coordinates pulled off some goldseller's search site. If you charged 50gp more than the other guy instead of 50gp less, we'd be at their place and not yours. We don't even go inside and look at your decor, we just click the vendor name from outside. Most of us would be just as happy, or happier, buying things off a menu. Sorry.

    Yours truly,
    About 95% of your customers
     
  7. Njjj

    Njjj Journeyman
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    I would vote yes for the search and no for the auction and cross shard.

    I dislike the idea of an auction, and cross shard trading, b/c it takes away from the sense of immersion in an alternate world, with merchants following good business practices in order to maintain loyal customers. (Advertising, maintaining stock, etc). Although the vendor search does this to some extent as well, I would like to have it for these reasons:

    1. The third party version already exists.
    2. Luna on most shards is so full of "dead" vendors, browsing has become a tedious time sink.
     
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  8. Njjj

    Njjj Journeyman
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    I disagree but accept the possibility that I'm a 5 percenter and don't realize it.
     
  9. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    You're right that was one of the best things about UO in the past people standing at the banks casting gates and sending people to their vendor houses with good deals and etc..and considering EA hasn't fixed the scripting and most probably never will we have a 3rd party site making the Luna real estate doubled in value nevermind the prices of items due to its easy accessibility where an actual EA ran vendor search would most likely put that search to shame(hopefully) why not as the old homage goes..if you can't beat em join em..too bad it may be too little too late for many things
     
  10. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    What are cons to an auction house?
    - devalue of character xfers..that alone would rule that out in a buisness sense for EA


    A few pros
    for the people who aren't willing to give gold in hopes to receive the item on the other shard..
    -could eliminate the scamming aspect of it..which may or not exist which in sure It does to some degree
    -it could eliminate xsharding to buy items and xsharding them back which in my eyes would be a pro for me as u maybe not you and definitely not EA in drop of character transfer tokens or even making shields semi useless ..

    So with that said 99.9-100% and xsharding wouldn't happen but how is a shard specific auction house a bad idea?..maybe I am not savvy enough to understand what it's basic function is

    My idea is this
    - Me I have a super awesome bow
    -You eh it's ok ill pay 10m
    -the next guy oh ill pay 15

    Maybe bad for the buyer but definitely kosher for the seller especially with a buyout tacked in..maybe ban same IP's to stop run up of tally

    Chessy has an in game auction ran by RBG and they seem to be very honest people and have been doing it a long time so maybe something like this would kill an in game event like that so that would be a con

    To me I know where I'd go looking for deals

    People wouldn't be inclined to post in stratics trade forums?

    ..anything would be more constructive then OMG gheyyy lawl!
     
  11. Blood Ghoul

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    I vote Yes on the vendor search. Long overdue
     
  12. Njjj

    Njjj Journeyman
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    I keep a rune book with vendors outside luna who dropped runes on ground at one point, and maintain stock on good items. At least half of my go-to vendors are in this book. They were able to make a loyal customer due to their proactive approach to running their shop. So I think some of that old timely feel still exists, so long as you take 3 zeros off all the prices.
     
  13. KLOMP

    KLOMP Sage

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    What are these items you're buying all the time? When I need a Hat of the Magi or some imbuing materials or whatever, I just type it into a search site and run to buy the cheapest one. What do you do?
     
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  14. Thrakkar

    Thrakkar Slightly Crazed
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    I'm running from north to south, from east to west on every facet, checking every single shop, clicking every vendor, opening every single bag. Then after about 15-16 hours I've seen them all, then I buy from the vendor with the most beautiful deco, even if it's the most expensive one...
     
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  15. Njjj

    Njjj Journeyman
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    For imbuing ingred. or other consumables, there are vendors that I know keep these well stocked so I go there first. For something like an arti, I would spam chat for it. That said, I do want the in game vendor search. I just choose personally not to use the third party sites.

    Caz, you make a good point about the player run auctions. I really enjoy these, because they are the largest gathering of players aside from em events. Also, one of the things I really love about this game is that players CAN run their own auction, and do it anyway they like. This way it's an event that people look forward to. To replace this with a gump would take something away from the game.
     
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  16. KLOMP

    KLOMP Sage

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    So yeah, irrelevant minority.
     
  17. Winker

    Winker Babbling Loonie
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    Here is the problem, if the Devs spend the time and effort in making a vendor search option ingame, it will have to be better than the one thats free to use on the internet. If its not as good as the one 99% of us are using on the internet then its going to fail and be a waist of Dev time and effort.

    Personaly i would say leave things as they are and spend the devs time more wisely.
     
  18. Thrakkar

    Thrakkar Slightly Crazed
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    How the 3rd party sites do it:
    Running a script, which moves a toon presumably AFK through luna/new magincia, checking every vendor, checking every bag and logging all the items. This script will run in certain intervals, the shorter the intervals, the more accurate are the results.
    Pros: Are there any? Can't think of just a single one...
    Cons:
    - unnecessary server load
    - use of scripting/afk-macroing
    - vendors have no control about it, since everything will be found, as long as it has been scanned
    - results may be inaccurate, since scan-intervals are rather big
    - user has to struggle with coordinates or similar to find the vendor
    - user has to visit a website, where also gold and other items are sold and might be tempted to support them

    How a good in-game implementation could(!) look like:
    The search will be executed in real-time directly against the database of the shard, getting an accurate first hand result. Then a rune could be generated and placed into the backpack of the char.
    Pros:
    - no afk-toon running around and clicking vendors in intervals
    - the actual data is searched, thus making the result as accurate as possible
    - player merchants have control about the items in the search result. I.e. the could add some additional descriptions; exclude items or complete vendors; when selling containers (i.e. full suits), contents could be browsable or displayed too
    - the system could generate you a rune and you just have to recall there
    - EVERY vendor could be part of it, not only the luna & new magincia ones
    Cons:
    - no cross-server search (but IMHO I don't need it and that's a service the 3rd-party sites will continue to provide, just that they won't have to run their scripted toon and use the in-game search on every shard)

    And the devs have to be aware, that it all comes down to usability and search-functionality. Because lot's of players want to filter their results for lots of different things. A quicksearch is cool, but when it comes to advanced search option, the more the better. And to be honstet, the search-options of the 3rd-party sites are crap too...
     
  19. old gypsy

    old gypsy Grand Poobah
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    Shard vendor search, yes. Auction house and/or provisions for cross-shard buying, no.

    Personally, I think the purpose should be to decentralize shopping and facilitate ease of commerce on the shards we call "home", wherever the vendors may be located. Nothing more, nothing less.
     
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  20. DerekL

    DerekL Certifiable
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    - Server load. (The script the devs are running has to run somewhere - they aren't going to add hardware.)
    - Just like the 3rd party tool, it will only be as accurate as the most recent search run. (I seriously doubt it would be implemented as a real-time search of the entire shard... that's quite resource intensive.)
    - Limited to dev time and energy. (A major consideration considering how long some bugs and oddities have lingered in game.)

    Though after pondering about it, I'm against vendor search. It rewards the player who prices the lowest vice the player that works the hardest, and it'll be the a serious blow against the independent craftsman (who've weathered so many over the years). Let's keep Wal-Mart out of Sosaria.
     
  21. Winker

    Winker Babbling Loonie
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    #21 Winker, Dec 29, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2012
  22. old gypsy

    old gypsy Grand Poobah
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    Not really. Players aren't likely to price things so low they can't turn a reasonable profit; and if that profit proves to be too small, they won't stay in business long because it's time-consuming to maintain a stocked vendor.

    And what's so bad about Walmart? I spend more time (and money) at Walmart than I do at Tiffany's. :)
     
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  23. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    Well I think the search site benefits big money vendors and I think that's where the problem lies..people who have tons of money are going around buying low reselling high that wont change I think it's more about giving farther out of Luna vendors a shot at selling items and actually making Luna rentals cheaper..some Luna rentals are 1m a week that would change giving the smaller guy a chance at actually selling his forges and smaller items and not having to jack prices to compete with vendor rentals to turn a profit
     
  24. Mitzlplik_LS

    Mitzlplik_LS Journeyman
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    Pretty much this ^^
     
  25. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    I'm sorry but I for one would rather have an in-game search engine ..... I am sick and tired of supporting Luna... I hate LUNA. Wish it had never been built. I miss when shops had to WORK for my gold. When a good vendor actually put some work into their shop not only making it nice and pleasant to go to but they had things well laid out and labeled and they were ALWAYS in stock.... Many luna vendors are LAZY they cram crap onto their vendors don't label the vendor or the bags they put in forcing everyone to dig thru bag after bag of crap to find one thing they want... And then go weeks on end empty bag says it has 10 items in it... well yes they are all 10 empty bags!!!!!!!!

    I welcome an in-game search... not so fond of it dropping you at it's door but whatever.... I'd rather it just gave you facet and co-ordinates.
     
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  26. old gypsy

    old gypsy Grand Poobah
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    Before Luna, I used to actually enjoy traveling the land and finding vendors carrying (usually) reasonably priced items. With an in-game vendor search I believe more players would make use of their sextants and actually visit these shops. The search feature would be a valuable enhancement to the game, in my opinion.
     
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  27. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    Vendor Search

    Points of Access

    - Each town bank would get a specifically hued Bulletin Board which would handle the Search Interface allowing players to walk up, access the board and search for their desired item(s).
    - A house add-on would become available as the same hued Bulletin Board which would do the same thing.

    Interface

    -A searchable menu comes up which should have tabs for specific types of items such as Equipment for Armor and Weapons, Resources, Housing for addons and decorative items, and Clothing (others can be added or the types of tabs tweaked as necessary) which would bring up a list of those specific items if a direct search term is not entered.
    - Searching for an item should bring up results that can be sorted by price or location
    - When an item is found, it should display the item (with mouseover on the item graphic or name showing the tooltip for the item thus showing mods on an armor or weapon piece), price for the item, Vendor Name, and location information (sextant coords, nearest major city, etc)

    Vendors

    - Would work the same as they do now, but would have an additional function to link the vendor to the Search system (so those who do not want to be part of the search system for "purity" reasons can opt not to do so).


    I don't think UO needs an Auction House system or anything that makes X-shard trading any easier. I personally wish X-shard trading hadn;t been allowed in the first place.
     
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  28. Thrakkar

    Thrakkar Slightly Crazed
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    Script? Are you serious? The shard-server has access to the database, obviously. They just run a database query and get the as-is result from the DB.

    There is no "search run". And since it's just a database query, it is in real-time and not resource intensive

    Updated regularly? An in-game search doesn't have to be updated in the first place...

    And pictures? In-game you can have the item itself and the tooltip.

    And people don't have to add anything to something, since it's in the game and thus in the database already.

    Location with map? How is that an advantage over the rune itself?

    Easy of use, free to use, fast results, search entire vendor are rather pointless arguments.

    The only "advantage" is a search over all shards. But as I already pointed out, 3rd-party sites will still provide this feature in the future, so your precious 3rd-party sites won't go away, they even will become more accurate than ever...

    Sure, the server can handle it, but that doesn't change the fact, that it is completely unnecessary.

    Maybe some guys don't know all 3rd-party sites.
    Maybe some guys won't support a bunch of scripters.

    Results can be a few hours old. And I wouldn't be surprised, if the script scanning the vendors alerts the user, when it stumbles upon special bargains, so that the 3rd-party site can buy the cheap item and sell it for real cash.

    Yeah, let's support scripters. The economy is already beyond repair, why not make it even worse?
    One could mean, you're promoting these sites...
     
  29. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Why do people think that an official vendor search would somehow involve a scripted bot, like the unofficial ones do. At the teams' end they can see from behind the scenes. The sites use a scripted bot because they can't see behind the scenes.

    An official vendor search wouldn't even necessarily devalue Luna because a vendor search would be used to find something that you're specifically looking for; in Luna you can stumble across things while you're buying what you came for. And the vendor search sites offer services besides the vendor search, so excellent odds are that they will continue to exist.

    The first time I personally heard of an auction house for UO being mentioned was by Producer Cal when he mis-heard a request for a vendor search as a request for an auction house. So it's frustrating to me when people mention auction houses and vendor searches in the same breath.

    Given the nature of UO it's rather far from a pipe dream or fantasy to think that shops do have an identity and that customers do pay attention to deco. Not all players play this way but many do.

    All in all I am simply not persuaded by the arguments against an official vendor search. If someone really likes the price of an item, it's not like traveling to the shop is so onerous that no one will travel. And if it is, well, then they should have the choice to pay for the convenience.

    -Galen's player
     
  30. Winker

    Winker Babbling Loonie
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    Can i have some of what you have been smoking....Please?

    Just for the record, i dont care about scripting or who does what and who has what and how they came by it. Scripting is here to stay, I can except that can you? So lets drop the Scripting Bull.

    So now that we have stripped out your Scripting argument, there seams very little left in your argument. The fact is we already have a vendor search. If they are going to make a Offical one it has to be better or 90% of us will still be using the website and i dont want to tie up the dev's time with a useless project when they could be spending the time else where
     
  31. old gypsy

    old gypsy Grand Poobah
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    As someone who prefers to rely on in-game mechanics (I've never even used UO Assist), I would enthusiastically support and make use of an official in-game vendor search feature. I can only speak for myself, of course, but I'm inclined to believe that the majority of UO players would greatly appreciate it if the Devs follow through with this.
     
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  32. Thrakkar

    Thrakkar Slightly Crazed
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    LOL.
    First, i don't smoke.
    Second, you just seem to read, what you want to read.
    Third, if implemented correctly, the in-game search will be far superior than any 3rd-party site. (Re-read my previous posts, since I have no intention to repeatr myself).
    Fourth, your precious 3rd-party sites will stay, no matter what they will implement. So why are you complaining?
    Fifth, please don't speak for 90% of the player base, because that is something you simply can't do.
     
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  33. Winker

    Winker Babbling Loonie
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    Well since the 3rd party search site is here and working NOW and the Devs have yet to come up with anything your just wishing.

    You would rather the devs waist their time on a search system that we all ready have.

    Ps. If the Dev's wanted to put a stop to the 3rd party search engine site they could, instantly! But they wont! Why not?
     
  34. Thrakkar

    Thrakkar Slightly Crazed
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    Yes, because IMHO it's no waste of time. One of the main arguments is still, that just a fraction of vendors is available. Even if the vendor owner has the opportunity to add his shop to the site, a lot of people don't do it, for whatever reason they have. These sites are restricted to an opt-in model. The devs on the other hand can give us an opt-out system (which is also way better IMHO).

    That is a really good question, which I raised myself on a few occasions. Never got an answer though...
    Maybe they currently are afarid to loose players, if players can't search anymore, but they will, after they implemented an in-game search. Who knows...
     
    #34 Thrakkar, Dec 29, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2012
  35. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    Really and just how would they do that? It's up to EA not UO to take care of this.
     
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  36. KLOMP

    KLOMP Sage

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    If all it gives you is sextant coordinates I'm not even going to bother with it. If they're not willing to break the hearts of a few kooks who think running through an empty forest on your way to a shop is important gameplay, they shouldn't even bother developing a vendor search.
     
  37. old gypsy

    old gypsy Grand Poobah
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    I would use it. I know numerous others who would use it. Access to an in-game search feature would enable every player to list their vendors without having to go to an outside source over which the Devs have no control. I would trust our Devs over any independent website that was developed for the ultimate purpose of making real-world profits.
     
    #37 old gypsy, Dec 29, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2012
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  38. startle

    startle Siege... Where the fun begins.
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    How shall I put this.... Ummm, I really am trying to be diplomatic here, but at some point just plain old common sense has to force it's way into this conversation. There is only one valid reason to oppose the implementation of an "In-Game Vendor Search", and I think that most everyone here understands that (or you should anyway). The only reason to advocate for the "status quo" is quite simply that the "status quo" benefits you. Come on people, we see through your pathetic transparent arguments. I'm sorry, but it's becoming quite tiring - hearing those few of you who just can't bear the thought of any change in our "status quo"...

    Well, our "status quo" is this:
    Sosaria has become a wasteland - in terms of both player interaction and the decline of the player base in general. That is an opinion, of course - understood.
    However, my opinion is based on my active involvement in UO on an almost constant daily basis for over 14 years now. I enjoy Sosaria - and there isn't any region that I don't visit on a fairly regular basis, for one reason or another... So the decline in the player base in general and player interaction in particular is both readily apparent to anyone who cares to observe and quite disheartening to those of us who do...

    I attribute this to 2 things:

    1-The creation of Luna​
    2-3rd party vendor search's​

    Luna began the consolidation of vendors into a very convenient, very safe location. What made Luna particularly devistating to existing towns was that it included virtually everything that you could want/need into a single, jampack'd location.... Stable/bank/tailor/mage/jeweler/blacksmith/provisioner/you-name-it/Luna has it... This alone, made Luna the most marked rune in Sosarian history... You could do just about anything you needed to do in terms of resources/banking/buying all in one place, all at once, and in the safety of a gated community, so to speak...

    When you add to that the ability to see every single Luna vendor's inventory without ever leaving the comfort of your home thanks to these 3rd partys, the demise of everything else was and is an ongoing process....
    I know that I'm not alone in my wish to see balance back in our lands again:
    Yes Mal, Luna is an abomination....
    And I'd mostly like to side with you on the "not so fond of it dropping you at it's door" option rejection. Having just the coord's would encourage travel and interaction, which would be good, but how many times do I have to run thru a jungle for it to become ever-so-boring? I mean, jungle's are annoying things.

    You're only as old as you think you are, "old" gypsy.... ;)


    Yes, there are many of us who do appreciate other player's imaginations in personalising their homes. We don't always have to be killing something or someone to enjoy the experience of UO.
    And your second point is well taken, Galen.... There will always be a place for the 3rd party experience...

    Come'on devs, give it to us.... Save your own bacon here... !
     
    #38 startle, Dec 30, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2012
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  39. Winker

    Winker Babbling Loonie
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    Simple line of code to stop them accessing the dll file. Thats the Dev's job not EA. Could be something as simple as a password protrecting the dll file. Without access to the dll file they cant run their 3rd party software. Not many software companys will allow you free access to there dll files like UO does
     
    #39 Winker, Dec 30, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2012
  40. Eaerendil

    Eaerendil Professional Mall Santa and Legendary Piglet
    Professional Governor Stratics Veteran King'sYewHighlanders

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    Didnt we have a thread about this issue? Anyways, here my 2 cents:

    Vendor Search: Yes (and they will do it...)
    Auction House: No!
     
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  41. Thrakkar

    Thrakkar Slightly Crazed
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    Dude, are you serious? Everything that is client side is being decompiled, hacked, cracked, reverse engineered, utilized, abused, you name it. Regardless of any protection...

    The only thing they can do is to monitor suspicious behavior, then send an GM and if they get no response, ban them.
     
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  42. Winker

    Winker Babbling Loonie
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    Hell since they changed the MUL files no one has yet to publish any software to "decompiled, hacked, cracked, reverse engineered, utilized, abused" them. There is not enough interest in UO for people to waist there time on "decompiled, hacked, cracked, reverse engineered, utilized, abused" the files the way they used to.

    They dont even "monitor suspicious behavior" they only react to reports made. when they turn up to talk to the char in question, as long as he answers them they dont give a flying hoot.

    Software protection is simple they just choose not to do it. Its about time for you to wake up and smell the coffee
     
  43. Thrakkar

    Thrakkar Slightly Crazed
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    Wow. I honestly don't know, wether I should cry or laugh, when reading this. This is so pointless. I give up. I'm out of here...
     
  44. Winker

    Winker Babbling Loonie
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    :drama:
     
  45. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
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    I wonder how many times the Plague character name has been dropped on the GMs door.

    Shard transfering was a bad bad ideal from the start.

    Compressed NPC area of Luna and housing layout made it the PLACE. New Mag was no competion with the gate still in the boondocks and the have to pay more money to have stalls factor.

    House sign option that puts its vendor search option on a spread public boards. Vendor is just another container in the game that the house signe vendor search helps avoid the search. Ability for a fel red to hit a board and by enhanced bandies of a vendor anywhere in the game. The lack of naming a vendor/shop correctly your loss. Have chat like option to ignore a shop like on chat to thin the list.

    New vendor type. Has a one week or two week display time of a single sale. On the 7th or 14th day it is a 24 hour bidding war. 24 hour loop stats and ends on placement time. Highest bid made of character still logged in has gold pulled and item/s transfered to their bankbox. Vendor owner can place a first starting bid once. No higher bid item removed to the house sign.

    Luna should of had public runbooks by the paladins on the west side of the bank. Runes from non Luna vendors could be dropped into the book to avoid the dropping of runes. At server up the books are wiped of runes. No Trail account or young player use of public runebooks for rune dropping. Players like the wooded vendor shope they will mark there own rune. Only runes marked in a house can be placed in theese public books.

    Devs just need a few month long full revert at random times of the year. Players will have the pucker factor when buying from sites. And the sites will have their massive headache to save face. Not like neither party can complain. And neither are good for the game. They are the Devs, and they can blow whatever smoke they like and we have to believe it. Just toss in a nice invasion after the refresh. Nice quest once by an account that adds the month age back to the account.
     
  46. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    So the solution to rl $ sites is random month reverts? I'm not seeing how the entire customer base would feel about that lol
     
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  47. Vor

    Vor Grand Inquisitor
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    Right... okay... that's got to be the strangest idea I've ever heard on these boards. Are you seriously suggesting that? It's hard to tell if sarcasm is intended when the comment is in written form!
     
  48. startle

    startle Siege... Where the fun begins.
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Gilfane

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    Strange is being a bit to kind... :coco:
     
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  49. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    I think I may be the only one who supports a game-wide vendor search who thinks Luna will still have a place in the economy, and who does not hate Luna.

    -Galen's player
     
  50. startle

    startle Siege... Where the fun begins.
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    I don't actually "hate" Luna, I only hate what it has become - almost since the day of it's inception... And unless there's some kind of Magencia-like meltdown, Luna will always be with us - for better or worse. Luna will still have a place in the economy, it simply won't be the only place... It must lose its grip on the reins.... Sosaria must get it's middle class back.
     
    #50 startle, Dec 30, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2012
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