1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Greetings Guest!!

    In order to combat SPAM on the forums, all users are required to have a minimum of 2 posts before they can submit links in any post or thread.

    Dismiss Notice

Give 2H weapons some love...

Discussion in 'UO Siege Perilous' started by Speedy Orkit, Jul 29, 2009.

  1. Speedy Orkit

    Speedy Orkit Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Messages:
    4,132
    Likes Received:
    9
    5% chance to evade over 1H is not enough.

    -2H are slower, in same cases FAR slower.
    -Very few have decent specials grouping(War hammer for instance)
    -Can't chug with them

    So I am proposing something be done, such as:
    -Balanced property
    -Giving them a damage buff(As in, 2H weapon damage capped at 45, does NOT apply to bows)

    Something, especially macing. Even macing 1H weaps blow. Sure war axes are nice, and diamonds, and maces, but look at their base speed, a war fork is superior with a much faster swing rate
     
  2. Kael

    Kael Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Messages:
    1,728
    Likes Received:
    108
    Would love to see balance on some two handed weps

    Would add a different look if people could still chug and yet use a double ax or something.

    I miss the old macers that would destroy your armour
     
  3. Kage

    Kage Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 31, 2008
    Messages:
    3,471
    Likes Received:
    81
    I think that is a dumb idea. If anything remove balanced from bows.... Or come out with some one handed bow...
     
  4. Speedy Orkit

    Speedy Orkit Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Messages:
    4,132
    Likes Received:
    9
    Most 1H weaps with 120 tact will do the cap of 35dmg, I don't feel that is right, when the same AI weaps do only 35, but are 2 handed, and generally slower.
     
  5. Kael

    Kael Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Messages:
    1,728
    Likes Received:
    108
    Why is it dumb??

    Most people chug pots these days. Why not allow variations in what people equip rather than just see the usual bokuta, kryss or warfork??
     
  6. Kage

    Kage Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 31, 2008
    Messages:
    3,471
    Likes Received:
    81
    You should not be allowed to chug with 2 handed weapon. It's been that way forever why change it now?

    Yes you can chug with bok's, kryss, warforks, dagger etc but all of them weapon have a low base damage.

    You guy all cry about how people play now you let them put balanced on a hard hitting 2 hander and watch how gimp the templates become around here.
     
  7. Speedy Orkit

    Speedy Orkit Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Messages:
    4,132
    Likes Received:
    9
    Exactly. When you can use a katana, or leaf blade, or kryss and knock out 35dmg AI's, why bother to use bladed staff?
     
  8. Kage

    Kage Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 31, 2008
    Messages:
    3,471
    Likes Received:
    81
    If you want to change something change something that would change pvp for the good. This shard is so full of cowards now days it's not even funny.

    -Change how smoke bombs work

    -Make animal form count as a control slot.

    -Make it so stealthers have to count there steps again.

    -Remove the ability to smoke bomb instantly after dismounting someone.

    -Put a longer timer on apples.

    -Make trapped boxes do random damage. 35-100 points of damage

    -Fix Evil omen/para

    -Cap Great Dragon fire breath @ 35 dmg

    -Revmove pet bonding

    -Remove pet specails against players such as Corruption, Bleed, Rage, Dismount.
     
  9. Speedy Orkit

    Speedy Orkit Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Messages:
    4,132
    Likes Received:
    9
    Agree with this as well


    I just don't see how it is fair for a 1h much faster weapon to do the same as a slower weapon that doesn't allow you to chug I guess?
     
  10. TigerDyr

    TigerDyr Guest

    I agree with Kage.

    No Balance for 2h weapons.

    But I agree with speedy there should be a signifant contast between using a 1H and a 2H weapon in the base espesially when there are those advantages with the 1H. So yes Buff the base damage of 2H and lower it abit on the 1H.
     
  11. Rykus

    Rykus Guest

    Couldn't agree more.
     
  12. Mook Chessy

    Mook Chessy Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2007
    Messages:
    1,934
    Likes Received:
    21
    Weapons like the following should not rule pvp

    cleaver or butcher knife (maybe for cooking)

    Bok (its a wooden stick, geez)

    kryss (should never be able to do 35 ai, why have long spear)

    I would love to see 2h wep make a come back, leave the damage the same, just adjust it for the 1h weps, a cleaver should hit for slightly more then a punch, leave the bleed alone.

    Imagine seeing pep running around with hally/war hammer/lance, it would be great!

    They need to make swing speed and damage relative, no weapon with under 2 sec swing can do max damage, something along those lines

    Remember the short bow before they nerfed it, they chopped the base damage 5 if I remember correctly, made it almost useless.
     
  13. Ole Cheapy

    Ole Cheapy Guest

    Word.
     
  14. Mogluk

    Mogluk Guest

    yub yub......



    *returns to oomie wurk*
     
  15. Ole Cheapy

    Ole Cheapy Guest

    Why would anyone wanna see people running around with slow as two handed weps? All that will do is give mages even more power than they already have. Its hard enough to hit a forsaken type mage swing at mx speed already, lord knows we dont want the same hit ratio with an even slower weapon...that would be totally ridiculous. You guys need to be careful what you wish for.
     
  16. Speedy Orkit

    Speedy Orkit Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Messages:
    4,132
    Likes Received:
    9
    LMC needs a lower cap I think as well
     
  17. uomlplayer

    uomlplayer Guest

    You forgot remove faction arties.
     
  18. Black magick

    Black magick Guest

    He isn't saying remove 1 handers, dumb ass. Hes saying there should be a reason to run 2 handed weapons. If a gimplate came out running a 2-h they would run that risk of course.
     
  19. Kael

    Kael Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Messages:
    1,728
    Likes Received:
    108
    I suppose there is nothing wrong with blessed event spellbooks with insane mods or scnp mage weps that can be combined with easy to obtain faction crystaline rings??
     
  20. Ole Cheapy

    Ole Cheapy Guest

    It comes as no shock to me that you are the only one who thought I meant or said anything about removing one handers. May I suggest you start reading these post without involving your personal feelings or jealousy so that you may get a better understanding of the poster words?
     
  21. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2004
    Messages:
    5,126
    Likes Received:
    29
    The 1st one, yes. The second one, no.
     
  22. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2004
    Messages:
    5,126
    Likes Received:
    29

    :thumbsup:

    Only thing I would want to add to that list is:

    - Add stamina to mounts again.
     
  23. Tiberius

    Tiberius Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2008
    Messages:
    2,269
    Likes Received:
    47
    OFT
     
  24. Black magick

    Black magick Guest

    jealousy? You've never once killed me sir, you attempted to once in luna when i was naked, and under 20 health, you failed even then. Perhaps its you that needs to let go of your personal feelings or jealousy involving these matters?

    As far as your post goes, you said "its hard enough to hit forsaken with max ssi", which btw makes no difference on the % of times hit that would be hci. The same hit ratio is already there with two handers, or do you not get the game enough to know you can get the same hci with a 2-h and a 1-h? Your post implied that people would be running around a lot more with 2-h weapons, either making 1-h way underpowered or "removing" them from the pvp scene.
     
  25. Mr X

    Mr X Guest

    Hey Kage way to hijack a thread with your whines. Wah wah wah poor mages. I have not logged in in 6 months because faction arties and recall runes have no business on siege. And you hijack a thread asking for a nerf stick to any template that isn't yours, you still are a winner.
     
  26. sofaking

    sofaking Guest

    I say remove factions and their arties altogether on siege. Let the towns still be captureable but by guilds. and allow non consensual wars at a price of like 1 mill a week. Factions here should be guild alliances and nothing else.
     
  27. Kage

    Kage Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 31, 2008
    Messages:
    3,471
    Likes Received:
    81
    Damn man you have not played UO in six months wow thats cool. I'm not sure who you're but you can go back under your rock and keep hiding like a *****.
     
  28. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2004
    Messages:
    5,126
    Likes Received:
    29
    Never going to happen.

    1. People like the faction arties. The only people who don't like them are the ones who die too often and can't enjoy them.

    2. The Devs have never, not once, not ever in the history of UO removed anything they've intentionally implemented via a publish or expansion.

    3. The faction stuff is here to stay... see number 2 for the reason why.


    The more likely thing to balance PvP, is to offer non-factioners a better supply and resource of obtaining decent gear. Such as boosting the abilities of our crafters to make good gear (such as more runics, more often,) keeping ToTs on, beefing up the loot obtained from Peerless and the ML arties gotten from ML named creatures as well as adding [cursed] artifacts to the loot tables of the mini-bosses and DF in the Doom Gauntlet.

    Thanks.

    And Mr. X, you haven't logged in for 6 months because you're gimp ass character is obsolete and you can't get cheap kills as easily. Waaaaah waaahh waahhh
     
  29. uomlplayer

    uomlplayer Guest

     
  30. sofaking

    sofaking Guest

    Im hoping thats what imbuing will do. Provide a more level playing field, so that one can more reasonably compete without being in factions.
     
  31. uomlplayer

    uomlplayer Guest

    The devs won't remove things they implemented intentionally,but they WILL CHANGE thing's.
    What they should change about faction arties is remove the extra mod's/resist on faction item's and make it the same as non faction item's,I mean they are already easier to get? why the extra resist/mod's on them?
     
  32. Kage

    Kage Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 31, 2008
    Messages:
    3,471
    Likes Received:
    81
    You do not even pvp who cares what you think... go farm something.

    As far as faction items go they did change something they cost 5x as much on siege and it take a long ass time to farm up a faction suit...
     
  33. uomlplayer

    uomlplayer Guest

    Keep telling yourself that buddy.That's why you are willing to farm up the silver instead of farming doom?:thumbsup:
     
  34. Ole Cheapy

    Ole Cheapy Guest

    I will help you only because I feel sorry for you....If i have 45% hci swinging a kryss at sakie for 60 seconds I get approx. 45 "attempts" to hit him with a 45% hit chance, if you have 45% hci swinging a hally you get about 23 "attempts" to hit sakie with a 45% hit chance...now here comes the part you're obviously not getting...by me having twice the attempts you have due to my swing speed, it increases my chances to hit him more during a 60 second time frame than you.

    Now, go back and reread what I wrote and leave your apology at the bottom of your blabagraph.
     
  35. Ole Cheapy

    Ole Cheapy Guest

    *Blinks* Of course you're gonna live more when you have the advantage of hugging the banks and choosing your fights.
     
  36. Ole Cheapy

    Ole Cheapy Guest

    Untrue, they removed the use of personal bless deeds.
     
  37. Mr X

    Mr X Guest

    From what I read my character is now flavor of the month. I played the template before anyone knew it existed and was faction leader in kill points. I died two times since the faction arties came out and only lost some arties once. But it was stupid. The arties do not belong on siege. And 100000% recalls do not belong on siege.

    I dropped every "top pvper" on this shard multiple times. I have nothing to prove. If I do decide to log back in I am dropping out of factions and will only wear monster loot and barb kit armor. If you want an arty suit go play in trammel. If you want recall runes go play trammel. Plenty of other shards that you will be happy with, care bear.
     
  38. Kage

    Kage Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 31, 2008
    Messages:
    3,471
    Likes Received:
    81
    You never dropped anyone at least bye your self the only way you got a kill on some of the good pvpers on this shard was bye ganking them...

    Now get back under you rock kid... You're nothing but another Cheapsuit talking out of your ass about how good you think you're or was...

    This may hurt your feeling but everything I said was true.

    Mr. X = subpar pvper at best :loser:
     
  39. N49ATV

    N49ATV Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2008
    Messages:
    1,489
    Likes Received:
    0
    I cant agree with all of this.

    -Smoke bombs yes

    -Animal as a control slot sure

    -Count steps...yes and no. Definitly needs to be a skill timer between hide and stealth IMO. For PvP sake, not long. But really. I cant use any skill after hiding except for stealth. So make it a 2s timer. Same with smoke bombs maybe. Smoke bombs hide you, but you cant move for 2s or so.

    -I agree with bomb after dismount. As if your gonna dismount you should be able to be targeted by the others, or the one dismounted. Call it a penalty for being a lamer.

    -I dont think apple timers need to be changed. Since there is no magery spell to combat any of the necro curses, or even the mage curse resistance penalties. So that would give necros more power then they already have.

    -Trapped boxes should be still based on skill. I say they are fine in the damage area (if made with 30 tink). But make it so they dont rearm. The transition from trapped pouches to trapped boxes was a joke. Way back, everyone used to carry 25 trapped pouches. And would pop them when paralyzed. So Explode/Para mages bitched they didnt do damage. So they went to boxes. Now boxes dont do enough damage, or are reusable. I think they should go back to trapped pouches. Which are single use. Require reseting, and give them say 10 damage by a newb mage. and 25 damage at 120 mage. I know this defeats some of the resist, but there are so many other things that defeat skills, such as +20 crys ring, and a -20 mage wep. Or fencing and poison skill for infect strike with no tact. So I see no issue with this.

    -evil omen/Para ya fix it.

    -Pet bonding. No pets should be bondable. With what it takes to train these things. I think bonding is fine. However they need to get rid of logging the pets. And like suggested. maybe make it so if it dies, it loses bond after res, and must be rebonded. id be ok with that. Maybe make it so it loses bonded once it gets back to full health. I know I have resed a drag off at a spawn or something, and someone lures as im ressing, and I cant get away before it pops and gets 1 hit killed. So work with it a bit. No way anyone would be happy with pet bonding completely gone, with the amount of time it takes to train a pet, and how hard it is to get decent spawns.

    -Sure cap fire breath on drags at 35 or so in PvP thats fine. But have that 35 at 70 fire resist. So whatever that works out to. That would discourage naked temps. Not that I agree with Pet PvP, but gotta keep some stuff reasonable.

    -Specials against players. I just dont think that would work with the coding. Since some things are imune to certain effects and such. But its across the board. So how do you make a player imune to bleed from a pet, and not a person. I just dont see the coding working. Now they could nerf any special that a player can not do. But pretty much nada.

    -Then the topic at hand. I do think you should be able to chug with 2 handed weps. Sure they hit hard, but are slow. And if you think about it there is no reason. I think if you have a STR check, and you pass it, then sure. And some weps shouldnt be allowed. But when you go to split wood at home, do you carry your axe from the shed to the pile and use both hands the whole time? How many movies have you seen where a mounted soldier has a spear in one hand while riding. So its not like some of these 2 handers could have a balanced property allowed. Maybe not all.

    But also like stated, with AI etc you can do just as much damage with a single as a double, and well thats not quiet right either.


    -remove faction artifacts, or atleast thier faction bonus. As even if I had an all real arty suit, identical to yours, I would not have as good of suit. So that would balance the PvP more for the non factioners. As for the benefits for being in the danger of factions, I think the availabilty of suits over real artys to the masses should be enough.

    -and as said before, if they were wearable by all factioners, that would be great. Then that would bring the hero/evil dye more into play then eye candy for faction suits. Or have a trade in system for silver credit.
     
  40. uomlplayer

    uomlplayer Guest

    Everything you said is very reasonable excpt the pet unbonding part, there's just too many way's to grief a tamer if it loose's bonding after pet die's.

    Make it so if a tamer attack's another player with a pet it loose's bonding,except for when the tamer get's attacked first, then it's fair game.The tamer should be at least be able to deffend themselve's without the risk of loosing a bonded pet.
     
  41. Ole Cheapy

    Ole Cheapy Guest

    Not exactly...actualluy back then people ran with balanced stats (40 int) so mind blast wouldnt totally own them and they had at least 60 magery on their template for an extra mini heals while waiting on bandage timer and for blessing before battles since you didnt need eval back then. With that said the good pvpers only ran with one trap pouch cuz the macro included opening the pouch then casting to retrap it so you only needed one, and if you didnt have magery to cast back then you really had no business pvping anyway in that era.

    But Kage and the likes of Kage would know nothing about real UO pvping as they are only AOS babies.

    Edit: Surely you dont suggest that a poisoner should need tactics to cast infection strike do you? Why would a poisoner have to use 300 points (Fencing, tactics, poison) just to cast a weapon special? A poisoner has to give up a lot already for his template now you suggest he give up yet another 100 points? Poisoners need love not nerfed.
     
  42. N49ATV

    N49ATV Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2008
    Messages:
    1,489
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well although I had magery back then on my axer....

    100 swords
    100 tact
    100 anat
    100 heal
    100 resist
    100 LJ
    100 Magery

    with 90 90 45 stats, I would never waste my mana on a trap. heals were more important. So I would pre-trap 25 bags. And had a UOA use once macro setup to pop one at a time, as I needed. To prevent the lamers who did explode para explode para, explode fs. If I was fighting someone, I saw no reason to stop and wait for magic trap to cast. Esspecially in a gank. So 25 pre-done. Much better.
     
  43. Kael

    Kael Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Messages:
    1,728
    Likes Received:
    108
    I guess my train of thought is with SA coming out at some point why not reevaluate some things and make some minor changes. SA will bring new weapons and new melee skills.
    I think most dexers are now as reliant on potions as mages are reliant on scnp mage weps. I think it would be fun to reinvent the use of the spear, the hally ect ect. Add some variety to the weapons that you can equip and use that will fit in your template.
    Perhaps the base damage and base speed on all weapons should be reevaluated. There are also hard hitting one handed weps that also carry a high base damage ie- maul, diamond mace, longsword
     
  44. Tiberius

    Tiberius Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2008
    Messages:
    2,269
    Likes Received:
    47
    I ran with both a bag of trap bouches and a pre-set one. the single one was for para explode and 2-3 mages; the other was for when 6-10 mages were after you all spammign para and it was time to get the duck out fodge. Combine with bandy healing and hide it was usually a pretty good get away. Now those ten people just toss a bola at you or dismount you.
     
  45. Mr X

    Mr X Guest

    Never said I was good, but good enough to win 1 vs 3-4-5.... half the 'good pvpers" on this shard were hard to drop solo for the very simple reason they never came out of the house unless they were outnumbering you 2:1. I know I have a bag full of faction stuff from months ago. And I also trashed a bunch of it. I think some of it even had your name on it kage. Well hell there was probably a lot of it actually. Only a perma corpse would come on stratics crying nerf stick. If you really were worth your salt you would not have to cry NERF!
     
  46. Kage

    Kage Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 31, 2008
    Messages:
    3,471
    Likes Received:
    81
    Ya ok Mr. Bushido strike... I remember the only time you ever killed any of the good pvpers and that was when SE came out and you could crit people for over 80 points of damage....

    You let me know when you would like to have a public fight against me so everyone can see how bad you really are.
     
  47. nightstalker22

    nightstalker22 Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2007
    Messages:
    1,099
    Likes Received:
    8
    The problem with 2H weapons isn't with the weapons themselves, but rather with all the other items that make the weapons useless.

    A shield should be the only thing that offers 30% DCI, yet you have jewels and weapon mods that make equipping a shield useless, except for parry.

    A one handed weapon and a shield is obviously a defensive set up, while a 2 handed weapon is for offense, and should be the only way to get HCI ( and wolf form ), as you are controlling the weapon with two hands, you will swing more true.

    Bushido should offer an average of the two, HCI and DCI for 2 handed weapons, but not be as high as using a shield, nor should it offer as much HCI as you're defensively striking, always prepared to block.

    Too many mods on too many items ruined the original intent for the weapons, so now that we're spoiled by it, we want more mods on the weapons too.

    I propose removing and disabling current HCI and DCI mods on jewels and weapons, as they removed UBWS on bows, and implement the above formula for HCI and DCI gains, forcing people to use 2 handed or one handed and shield.

    Add crushing blow randomness on maces ( only for increased damage to metal armors ).

    Add slashing randomness to swords and throwing stars ( for slashing durability of leather armor ).

    Add piercing randomness to fencing and archery and darts ( to destroy ring mail and chain mail )
     
  48. Mook Chessy

    Mook Chessy Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2007
    Messages:
    1,934
    Likes Received:
    21
    Dude, the problem is in your thinking, instead of the amount of times you strike worry about the dameg output (save the ability to disrupt)

    What I am saying is that any good mage know that your max hit is 35, so they just time their heals/mini heals and cast alot more spells.

    My point is that if I had a 2h wep, and a chance at a 60 point shot, the mage might reconsider he casting, he might cast a few more heals.

    IMHO alot of the fun of pvp was taken out when the damage cap came in.

    You can watch a good mage fight and they will let their bar go down 2/3 because they know they cannot die.

    Here is where 2h weps should come in, slower yes but they should offer the possibility of huge damage.

    I hate to go back in time as todays UO is all we have, but I do remember mages casting differently (no im not talking about dagger 5/6). When they knew that a 60 point shot could be comming at any moment, to me that randomness added alot to pvp...

    We all remember the "drive by" kill with a war hammer!!

    Sorry for the long post!
     
  49. Speedy Orkit

    Speedy Orkit Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Messages:
    4,132
    Likes Received:
    9
    My proposal:

    1 handed weapons stay the same. Do not change them, 35 damage cap, 1.25s swing, all that sweetness

    BUT

    Shields - Should offer a MUCH larger chance to parry, and parrying chance should also be based on: fighting skill, tactics, anatomy IMO.

    Two handed weaps: Leave them the same EXCEPT increase their maximum damage to 45. I'm not saying INCREASE their damage, just their cap to 45. Also a revamp of some of the specials would be nice.

    I also do not think parry of spells is out of the question anymore...with mages having a near unlimited mana.
     
  50. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2004
    Messages:
    5,126
    Likes Received:
    29
    My proposal?

    Add an extra tile to the range a character can hit, but limit that one tile to the tiles in front of the character. (this wouldn't apply to archery at all... because of the ranged attack and [balanced] property)

    Example:

    XXX
    X>XX
    XXX

    So if your character is facing east as in my example, you can hit an opponent standing east of you one extra tile away. If your character is facing south... you can hit a character south of you one extra tile away. Otherwise, you need to be next to that player in order to hit. The idea is, is that the direction your character faces and the type of weapon he/she is using is how you can obtain the bonus.

    This would add an element of skill to utilizing this bonus, it would give 2 handed weapons an advantage over 1 handed... especially against fellow dexers and chasing down an opponent.

    I never understood why a spear had the same range of attack as a dagger...


    my 2 cents