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[Fishing] Give Me Your Fishing Quest Results! (Updated 30 March 2013)

Discussion in 'UO Fishing and Treasure Hunting' started by Adol, Sep 9, 2012.

  1. Adol

    Adol Certifiable
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    Yes! You the fisher men and women of the realm, are cordially invited to aid the Great Fishy Work by submitting your rewards from handing in the haddock, so together we can try and develop an accurate understanding of the loot table!

    We now have #713 results, and thanks to the work of "Dibbles, Queen Fish In The Sea" have added a tab for the minimum and maximum level an item appears at.

    This allows me to draw some tentative results... It looks like it's only above 100 (Pinco) or 200 (Dev stated) values of fish that you get Legendary bait. It also confirms my suspicion that there's overlapping levels of reward; you will still get Rare Fish bait at 100 points all the way up to the highest possible quest, you can see Mr Crystal Fish popping up at 160/320 points there (and what a disappointment it was to get that one, fishing fans I can tell you!)

    It's hard to be sure for the best rewards, the Oracle and 120 scroll for instance, as they turn up so very infrequently. But notice the 115 PS does, so far, have a minimal reported value of 100/200 too, which is tantalizingly supportive of that being the break point for the high end quest rewards to appear on the loot table...

    The Devs have stated there are 4 groups of rewards mapped to 4 order sizes. As I'm relatively confident then that one of those Order Sizes is at 100/200 points, and using the second, Dev stated value of 200, at a guess the others are 0-100, 100-200, 200-300, 300-360 maybe?

    There's still much work and analysis to be done though! In the meantime, please add your own results...

    HERE MATEYS

    And bear the following in mind;

    1.) Thanks to the way Google Docs handles security, any editing you do will attach your email address of your Google account to the document in various places. SIGN OUT IF YOU WANT TO DO IT ANONYMOUSLY. (Hnngh, thanks Google Docs)

    2.) Please fill the columns B, C and D and E in only, and we want every EVERY order you get, so we have an idea of how likely you are to get a good one. You don't need to put how many bait units you get. It's always the Points total in Bait, except it cuts off at 100, ie 90 points = 90 Bait. 140 points = 100 bait. Yes really. Damn you, Neptune and your stinginess!

    3.) If you run out of rows, click "Add 20 More" at the bottom.

    4.) We've abbreviated "Order of the Dragonfish Handbook Volume X" to "OotD Handbook Volume X" but just make it clear it's the book and which volume and we'll understand...

    5.) It updates in real time, so don't worry about Saving it!

    6.) And feel free to use the data for your own analysis; the sea be a harsh mistress, and we all be needin' a star t'steer by!
     
    #1 Adol, Sep 9, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2013
  2. The Mule

    The Mule Journeyman
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    Ive started tracking some results because of this project...Ill post them once I have a few to do at once. However here is a little frustrating gem I just got. 108.3 skill....

    From Jhelom to Skara
    10 Yellow Perch - Junkproof Hook


    From Trinisic to FE
    15 Blue Crab
    15 Rock Crab
    20 Mahi-Mahi
    15 Bluegill Sunfish
    20 Walleye
    10 Grim Crisco - Junkproof Hook



    Are you flippin serious!
     
  3. Adol

    Adol Certifiable
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    He he he... I hate to upset you even further, but have a look at the results so far... I'm at 20 fish for every possible type, and I'm getting Hooks at well over 100 points of fish too! I got a 160 pointer (5x20 Dungeon Fish, 20x Shallow Fish) and it turned into 100 Marlin bait. We hid that one in the middle of the list because it was too upsetting to see it clearly near the bottom...
     
    #3 Adol, Sep 11, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2012
  4. Nimuaq

    Nimuaq Lore Master
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    This is a great way of showing how poorly designed the rewards are when compared to the orders. Now, if we (fishers) complain about getting a bad reward just from a single quest, it will be considered as poor rng, that's why we need to have a long solid list of bad rewards, and some bugs as well like the giant koi bait.

    According to the list, you can expect any type of hook, lava lobster trap or giant koi bait, regardless of the order value. You get enchanted fish bait until 100, and get legendary fish bait after 100 (giant koi being the only exception). A 6 liner order with 20 fish or crustacean on each line needs a great deal of time to gather, and the reward should be something that matches the effort spent to complete the order. However, I don't want more rewards randomly added to the code until the current ones are fixed. Unfortunately, the designer of the system left the game about a year ago, and I'm not sure Phoenix and Kyronix understands how bad the current reward system is. Thanks to Adol, we can now show what we're getting after hours of fishing.
     
    #4 Nimuaq, Sep 11, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2012
  5. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    one note - if you choose compile this into something to send to the Devs to show this, remember to add another column for the REAL point totals.

    Most of our previous complaints were misunderstood before, because the "bait point" system is NOT the point system in the game.

    Bait count = ACTUAL point total in the server software DIVIDED BY TWO. This was confirmed by devs who got confused when people started referring to 0.5 point and 1.5 point fish, when all the fish have integer point values in the reward calculation (1, 2 and 3, not 0.5, 1.0 & 1.5)

    It's easier for putting the spreadsheet together to use the bait count, but don't forget that it's a smaller number derived from the actual system (where the max fishing quest of 6 dungeon fish x 20 is 360 points, not 180). You might tell the person you send it to, but there's no guarantee he'll tell the person he passes it off to.

    After all, in the last few years, we've had JOAT for weapon special moves and the extra ingot per item for salvage bags removed as "BUGS" when the devs that programmed them (long gone) made it clear those were INTENDED BONUSES when they were introduced.
     
  6. Silverbird

    Silverbird Slightly Crazed
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    I dont have the data of your request, but i can give you the numbers that I have kept track off. Those are all from my 'new' fisherman on DF. All results are from after the latest changes to the fishing quests and I didnt start with those quests until I had 110 fishing.
    Quests done total: 261
    Quests with a bait rating of 100 or higher: 38
    Out of those 38 quests i got:
    - lava lobster trap 3
    - junk proof hook 1
    - lava proof hook 1
    - dredging hook 3
    - book 5 1
    - 115ps 1
    - 120 ps 1
    - charbydis bait 1
    - oracle 1
    - legendary baits 25

    Notes:
    - I am missing book 6
    - I stopped questing when I got my 120 ps
    - I got the dredging hooks closely after each other. So the streakiness of the rng hit me really hard that day.
    - I got the 115 ps on my 7'th high rating quest but it was my 163'rd quest in total. So the ratio of high quests vs low quests gets better in the long run.
    - I might continue those quests laters, when I have more time/less other stuff to do.
    - I got reports from trustworthy players of getting smelly legendary baits. I wasnt lucky enough for one, but if they are out, there might be extra smelly versions, too.

    Actualy I slowly started on preparing for another fishing project/test. The question to answer is, if you can 'farm' hooks and lava traps only by doing low-end-quests. Setup will be a human without fishing (so joat = 20 fishing) on a classic boat. According to yet known informations, the mongers should only request 1-liners of shore fishes in that case.

    My comment to hooks/traps from high valued quests is, that it would be more fair, if you would get two or three of them for such a quest. Getting the fishes for such an order takes a good portion of time. But I also understand, that some of those unliked rewards start to get interesting when you have reached high level/legendary fishing. That is combining junk proof hooks with legendary baits and/or in dangerous places. Or with the lava lobster trap, which only sense-making catch is the void lobster, for which you need legendary fishing ... (Actually you could use the lava lobster trap for normal trap fishing but it is imho too rare to loose it in plain waters.)
     
  7. Adol

    Adol Certifiable
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    We'll be adding another column to list the second point totals soon... it's easy enough to the calculate the other from either value, but it will have the benefit of making clear all the different terms involved as you say, so thank you for reminding us of that.

    We'll leave the columns we already added to the table calculate your own fish quest size using the Pinco method however, due to it being the only visible value you would see in game anyway; to use the Devs values when it doesn't appear to the players anywhere would add to the confusion I think. If Pinco ever did change those over you'd have a uniform standard and we'd naturally swap to it of course...
     
    #7 Adol, Sep 12, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2012
  8. Adol

    Adol Certifiable
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    Thank you for adding your data to the pile, it all helps!

    Regarding loot... I'll run my idea past you all, and see what you think might be the hidden loot table.

    The Devs stated the following;

    "How is the reward for finished quest decided?
    There are categories based on order size. There is some overlap, but you get different prizes for a small order than you get for a big order. The size of the order is weighted depending on whether you are catching shallow water fish (x1), deep water fish(x2), or dungeon fish (x3)."

    [UO Herald] FAQ Friday #7 - Extra Fishy Edition | Stratics Forums

    My understanding is that the "Different Prizes" is divided by groupings of similar rewards. Let's say as an example;

    Type 1 - Bait
    Type 2 - Books
    Type 3 - Scrolls
    Type 4 - Fishing Gear

    Now clearly as can be seen, you're getting Hooks, Lava Lobster Traps, Bait, Power Scrolls and Order Of The Dragonfish at every level. However, 105 power scrolls are much more obvious whilst you're building up to 20 fish orders, than 110 to 120 are when you get there. And they need to be, because you need to ensure you get a scroll at some point to progress at all. So I suspect that "Scrolls" then has a higher chance of turning up at low level fish orders... that is that the percentage chance of getting that group for your prize is tied to the "weighted depending on" part. But I also think they're all still in the initial loot type table, just at modified chances.

    However, my gut feeling is that there's a second roll too. Let's call it "Intensity". If you're fishing at higher levels, the bait reward clearly escalates to the type of fish, towards Legendary. My thinking is that the "weighted depending on" is also pushing the Scrolls from 105-110 to 110 - 120 too, that is the range of rewards is changed depending on that weight.

    BUT: There's also a percentage weighting applied to that second table of rewards, which means a 120 is much, much rarer than a 110 still when you roll "Scrolls". And certain types of Legendary Bait is much, much, MUCH rarer than others; Void Crab, Charybdis and Void Lobster is my guess for the top end of the table. And you're looking at less than 1% for the Charybdis probably... if not as an absolute but due to the fact that there's just so many other fish types in the "Bait" group you could be rolling instead, even if they're all supposed to be Legendary. (And Giant Koi, who isn't and possibly isn't supposed to be in that column at high "weighted depending on")

    And... in my example, I suspect that the Oracle Of The Seas is in "Fishing Gear" group, with a correspondingly extremely low percentage chance as the top prize. Which would explain why people keep getting the dread hooks, as they're in that group too, and one of only a very few in it, so are almost always what you'll likely roll.

    Now "Books" would be an interesting one; everyone hates the books. They aren't even worth Clean Up Points. So the percentage chance to roll Books in step 1 is probably very small at high levels of fishing. And the percentage chance of rolling Books 5 & 6 in that group are very low, because they are the legendary Books. Can you spot the problem yet?

    You're using Multiplied odds here, in a 2 step process. So the chances of Book 6 are the odds of rolling "Books" multiplied by the chance of "Book 6" on the second table. That's going to be very, very small indeed, and explains why no one saw any for months after High Seas went live. That's the thing that really makes me suspect a two step process. That and Void Lobster. O dream of catching the first one ever! But will I? It's not such a problem at low ends of reward of course, because you're correspondingly closer to the larger odds set for the group, but when you get to an order like I had yesterday of 5x 20 Dungeon Fish and 1x 20 Shore fish (sooo close to the maximum theoritical) and you roll the 100 Marlin Bait, rather than Void Lobster bait again well...
     
  9. Silverbird

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    Just to add some 'crushing' numbers ....

    My european fisherman got 12 times legendary bait. 4 of them for void crabs while my fisher on DF got none out of 25 baits.
    I got my 120 ps on DF from a 5-liner worth of 100 points. The 115 ps came from a 6-liner with a weight of 120. My oracle came from a 6-liner worth 160 pts. (My closest to that were two orders at 140. Both 6-liners and one gave me bait and the other a dredging hook.) Book 5 came from a 5-liner worth 120 pts and my charbydis bait from a 6-liner with 130 pts. To add another oddity ... one 4-liner reached a rating of 100 and rewarded me with bait for the Kingfish.

    Comparing numbers ...
    Out of a total of 261 quests I got 11 ps: 6 * 105, 3* 110, 1*115, 1*120. Assuming that you cannot get a lower scroll from a high order (rating 100 or higher) I got 9 ps out of 223 lower orders and 2 scrolls from my 38 high orders. This leaves me with around 4% chance for a low ps (9:223) and around 5% for a higher ps (2:38). Considering that my numbers are too low to give somewhat closely excact statisticly numbers, I would claim that the chances for powerscrolls are about equal for all orders. (Only that you FEEL, that lower scrolls are easier to get, becourse you usually do way more lower quests but pin your focus to the few higher quests that you get.)

    Speculations:
    I could imagine, that there are two criteria for choosing a reward. One is the rating of the order with the number of lines in that orders as a secondary criterion. I could for example imagine, that the books directly check the number of lines of your orders. Like book 1 for a 1-liner, book 4 for a 4-liner and book 6 only from a 6-liner. While baits are only derivated from the weighting of an order.

    In the start of the clean up, the books were meant to give 50 points each. But some ppl found out, that you were able to copy them with inscription and get points for those copys as well. So all books got removed from the point list. (Not shure, if the fishing books were copied or the ter-mur books. But both got removed from the clean up.)
     
  10. startle

    startle Siege... Where the fun begins.
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    Forgive my denseness, but I'm starting to do fishing quests now that my fisher is 120 and I don't understand what some of the columns mean. For instance, what is "Lines"? I don't use the EC so have no info to put in the Value (Pinco) column. What is Average Lines and Average Value?

    Do you still want people to enter data here? I'm happy to contribute my quests, but don't understand exactly what info you want in the spreadsheet...

    :oops:
     
  11. Adol

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    Lines is just how many types of fish etc you get; so King Crab, Mahi Mahi, and Bonito would be a 3 line quest. It's just so we can check whether the size of the order matters, or it's point total is all... so far it looks like the latter, only the total worth of the order.

    If you're not sure of the total, under the "Calculator" columns near the top of the document, copy and paste each fish type from the list below it onto a line, and the quantity before it, and it will add up your points for you; add that total into the Pinco column
     
    #11 Adol, Oct 13, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2012
  12. Adol

    Adol Certifiable
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    Thank you to those who have started adding their own results now; I accidentally forgot to check my ship over the last week and it's since sunk, damnit. Time to get another one! However, on October 21st, at 10:27am Pacific Time someone either accidentally or deliberately screwed up the entire document somehow. It only takes a click to revert it back to an earlier date, but if someone did it accidentally, let me know here please so I can log in and quickly restore to an earlier time...
     
  13. startle

    startle Siege... Where the fun begins.
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    I haven't attempted adding quest data yet... Do you still want data from 1 and 2 line quests?
     
  14. Adol

    Adol Certifiable
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    Yes please, as we think the reward table is based on points only, so the number of lines won't matter... but it'll confirm the loot table for the lower end of points all the same.

    Someone broke the google document again though last night, perhaps deliberately? So if you do want to submit results, and if you have a Google Account, I can see about giving you the right permissions so you can revert too.
     
  15. startle

    startle Siege... Where the fun begins.
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    I do have a Google Account... Gonna start a "conversation" with you here... **grumbles something about nothing being wrong with the term we ALL became used to as PM***
     
  16. Barry Gibb

    Barry Gibb Of Saintly Patience
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    I don't have a google account but I want to give you my data for input.

    Here are the 224 Quests (in CSV):
    Total Points,Lines,Reward,Type,Charges
    80,3,Bait,Autumn Dragonfish,32
    95,5,Dragon Book,1st Edition,
    170,6,Bait,Yellowtail Barracuda,72
    120,3,Bait,Fairy Salmon,55
    135,5,Bait,Great Barracuda,60
    145,4,"Pole, Lava",,
    100,4,"Trap, Lava",,
    60,1,Bait,Yellowtail Barracuda,30
    180,5,"Pole, Lava",,
    60,2,Bait,Holy Mackerel,30
    120,4,Bait,Autumn Dragonfish,45
    45,1,Bait,Autumn Dragonfish,22
    30,1,Bait,Stone Crab,15
    20,1,Bait,Autumn Dragonfish,10
    30,1,Bait,Giant Koi,7
    120,4,Bait,Holy Mackerel,40
    40,1,Bait,Holy Mackerel,20
    170,4,Bait,Giant Koi,85
    230,6,Scroll,115,
    85,3,Scroll,105,
    60,2,Bait,Giant Koi,30
    195,6,"Trap, Lava",,
    115,3,Scroll,105,
    50,2,Bait,Fairy Salmon,20
    90,3,Bait,Fairy Salmon,45
    120,4,"Trap, Lava",,
    60,1,"Pole, Lava",,
    80,2,Bait,Holy Mackerel,40
    170,4,Bait,Holy Mackerel,85
    80,3,Dragon Book,4th Edition,
    100,3,"Trap, Lava",,
    80,3,Bait,Fairy Salmon,40
    135,3,"Trap, Lava",,
    160,5,Bait,Spider Crab,80
    80,3,Bait,Giant Koi,40
    135,4,Bait,Spider Crab,67
    150,4,Bait,Yellowtail Barracuda,75
    190,6,"Trap, Lava",,
    145,4,Bait,Giant Koi,72
    10,1,Bait,Stone Crab,5
    125,4,"Pole, Lava",,
    95,3,Bait,Holy Mackerel,47
    195,5,Scroll,110,
    90,3,Dragon Book,1st Edition,
    150,5,Dragon Book,3rd Edition,
    50,2,Bait,Holy Mackerel,25
    70,3,Bait,Great Barracuda,35
    170,5,Bait,Great Barracuda,85
    190,6,Scroll,110,
    155,5,Dragon Book,3rd Edition,
    20,1,Bait,Giant Koi,10
    140,5,Bait,Autumn Dragonfish,70
    105,4,Bait,Spider Crab,52
    180,6,Bait,Holy Mackerel,90
    70,3,Bait,Stone Crab,35
    100,4,Bait,Spider Crab,50
    135,4,Bait,Giant Koi,67
    65,2,Bait,Giant Koi,32
    30,1,Bait,Great Barracuda,15
    95,4,"Pole, Lava",,
    135,5,Bait,Holy Mackerel,67
    90,2,Bait,Autumn Dragonfish,45
    120,5,"Pole, Lava",,
    155,4,Bait,Stone Crab,77
    145,6,Dragon Book,3rd Edition,
    195,5,Bait,Crystal Fish,97
    140,3,Scroll,105,
    110,4,Bait,Summer Dragonfish,55
    45,3,Dragon Book,2nd Edition,
    105,3,Bait,Fire Fish,52
    80,2,Bait,Holy Mackerel,40
    260,6,"Trap, Lava",,
    115,4,Bait,Fire Fish,57
    50,2,"Trap, Lava",,
    135,4,Scroll,110,
    110,3,Bait,Spider Crab,55
    130,4,Bait,Reaper Fish,65
    55,3,Bait,Great Barracuda,27
    45,1,Bait,Autumn Dragonfish,22
    120,4,"Pole, Lava",,
    45,2,Bait,Giant Koi,22
    205,6,Bait,Black Marlin,100
    105,4,Scroll,110,
    200,6,"Trap, Lava",,
    185,4,Bait,Great Barracuda,92
    40,2,Bait,Autumn Dragonfish,20
    105,3,Bait,Stone Crab,52
    120,4,Bait,Spider Crab,60
    75,3,Bait,Yellowtail Barracuda,37
    120,4,"Trap, Lava",,
    85,4,Bait,Yellowtail Barracuda,42
    20,1,"Trap, Lava",,
    120,5,Scroll,110,
    150,6,Scroll,105,
    40,2,Dragon Book,1st Edition,
    30,1,Bait,Yellowtail Barracuda,15
    150,5,Scroll,105,
    125,4,Bait,Fairy Salmon,62
    140,5,Bait,Bull Fish,70
    75,2,Dragon Book,1st Edition,
    60,3,Bait,Giant Koi,30
    180,5,Bait,Stone Crab,90
    30,1,Bait,Autumn Dragonfish,15
    30,1,Bait,Fairy Salmon,15
    90,2,Dragon Book,2nd Edition,
    170,4,Bait,Blue Lobster,85
    30,1,"Pole, Lava",,
    90,3,Bait,Stone Crab,45
    85,2,Bait,Autumn Dragonfish,42
    150,3,Scroll,105,
    20,1,Bait,Giant Koi,10
    95,3,Bait,Autumn Dragonfish,47
    200,6,Scroll,110,
    80,2,Dragon Book,1st Edition,
    70,3,Bait,Yellowtail Barracuda,35
    110,4,"Pole, Lava",,
    195,6,Scroll,105,
    40,1,"Trap, Lava",,
    100,4,"Trap, Lava",,
    70,2,Bait,Yellowtail Barracuda,35
    130,3,Bait,Reaper Fish,65
    30,1,Dragon Book,4th Edition,
    60,2,Bait,Yellowtail Barracuda,30
    180,6,Bait,Yellowtail Barracuda,90
    20,1,Dragon Book,4th Edition,
    110,5,Scroll,105,
    50,2,Bait,Holy Mackerel,25
    65,4,Bait,Autumn Dragonfish,32
    105,4,Bait,Bull Fish,52
    155,4,Bait,Blue Lobster,77
    50,2,"Pole, Lava",,
    135,6,Bait,Autumn Dragonfish,67
    120,5,Scroll,110,
    40,1,Bait,Autumn Dragonfish,20
    145,4,"Trap, Lava",,
    170,6,Scroll,110,
    165,6,Bait,Stone Crab,82
    210,6,Scroll,120,
    30,1,Bait,Giant Koi,15
    40,2,Bait,Fairy Salmon,20
    185,6,Bait,Lava Fish,92
    120,3,Bait,Fairy Salmon,60
    125,3,Bait,Yellowtail Barracuda,62
    20,1,Bait,Fairy Salmon,10
    30,2,Bait,Great Barracuda,15
    85,3,Bait,Stone Crab,42
    40,1,"Pole, Lava",,
    155,5,Scroll,105,
    110,4,Bait,Autumn Dragonfish,55
    175,6,"Trap, Lava",,
    90,3,"Pole, Lava",,
    190,6,"Bait, Smelly",Summer Dragonfish,95
    140,5,"Trap, Lava",,
    60,1,Scroll,105,
    100,3,"Trap, Lava",,
    115,5,Bait,Great Barracuda,57
    45,1,Hook,Dredging,
    60,2,Bait,Fairy Salmon,30
    30,1,Bait,Autumn Dragonfish,15
    110,4,Dragon Book,3rd Edition,
    185,5,Bait,Fairy Salmon,92
    10,1,Dragon Book,2nd Edition,
    30,1,Bait,Holy Mackerel,15
    140,4,Scroll,110,
    195,5,Bait,Fairy Salmon,97
    160,4,Bait,Yellowtail Barracuda,80
    150,5,Bait,Blue Lobster,75
    30,1,Bait,Stone Crab,15
    140,4,Bait,Stone Crab,70
    60,1,Bait,Giant Koi,30
    115,4,Bait,Crystal Fish,57
    40,1,Bait,Autumn Dragonfish,20
    105,5,Scroll,110,
    210,6,Hook,Junk Proof,
    60,1,Hook,Dredging,
    195,6,Bait,Stone Crab,97
    60,1,Bait,Giant Koi,30
    190,5,Hook,Junk Proof,
    140,6,Bait,Bull Fish,70
    135,4,Bait,Holy Mackerel,67
    20,1,Bait,Giant Koi,10
    170,6,Bait,Yellowtail Barracuda,85
    95,5,Bait,Fairy Salmon,47
    50,2,Bait,Holy Mackerel,25
    155,4,"Trap, Lava",,
    150,3,Bait,Stone Crab,75
    20,1,Bait,Autumn Dragonfish,10
    20,1,Hook,Dredging,
    170,5,Bait,Giant Koi,85
    30,1,Bait,Autumn Dragonfish,15
    40,1,Bait,Fairy Salmon,20
    20,1,Bait,Fairy Salmon,10
    30,1,Bait,Great Barracuda,15
    60,2,Dragon Book,1st Edition,
    60,3,Bait,Autumn Dragonfish,30
    50,2,Bait,Holy Mackerel,25
    110,4,Bait,Stone Crab,55
    125,4,Scroll,110,
    180,6,Bait,Great Barracuda,90
    125,4,Bait,Giant Koi,62
    10,1,Dragon Book,4th Edition,
    130,5,Bait,Stone Crab,65
    30,1,Bait,Great Barracuda,15
    130,5,Bait,Fire Fish,65
    65,4,Dragon Book,2nd Edition,
    45,1,Bait,Autumn Dragonfish,22
    140,5,Scroll,110,
    30,1,Bait,Giant Koi,15
    55,2,Bait,Yellowtail Barracuda,27
    80,4,Hook,Junk Proof,
    150,5,Bait,Blue Lobster,75
    90,4,Bait,Great Barracuda,45
    20,1,Dragon Book,Fourth Edition,
    30,1,"Trap, Lava",,
    85,3,Dragon Book,Second Edition,
    170,6,Hook,Junk Proof,
    20,1,Bait,Great Barracuda,10
    150,5,Bait,Yellowtail Barracuda,75
    40,1,Hook,Junk Proof,

    EDIT: the strikethrough entries were prior to Publish 70, which corrected the point value of lobsters and crabs from 1 to 2. All of the entries should be disregarded, including the ones which did not yield bait as their reward.

    Stayin Alive,

    BG
     
    #16 Barry Gibb, Dec 15, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2012
  17. Adol

    Adol Certifiable
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    Thanks a lot for that, I'll start working on inputting them to the chart... Some of the early ones don't look right, as they aren't half the value listed, and bait is always the number of points for the quest, capping out at 100 charges, so I won't enter the ones that look suspicious for now... again though, thanks for adding a huge bulk of data!

    I've also taken the opportunity to calculate the overall chances of any particular group of items; as you can see, Bait is pushing 67% of the total rewards now. If anyone fancies trying to sub-sort the information and get at an approximate loot table, I'd appreciated it!
     
    #17 Adol, Dec 15, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2012
  18. Barry Gibb

    Barry Gibb Of Saintly Patience
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    I investigated the suspicious entries in the list. I have noted on my spreadsheet that they were prior to Publish 70: http://www.uoguide.com/Publish_70. Publish 70 corrected the point value of lobsters and crabs (from 1 to 2). I edited the list and struck-through the entries which are effected. You will want to omit all of the entries before Publish 70 (even for the quests that give a non-bait reward). They will cause error in the entire data set. I left them struck-through so you could see which ones they were (if you added them already. I apologize for the error. I got too caught up trying to get excel to calculate the totals and count the quest lines, that I did not check the notes.

    All of the other bait enries check out to be half of the total points of the quest.

    Stayin Alive,

    BG
     
  19. Adol

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    I've added a few more now, and we're up to 442 results; to give you a general idea of the reward percentages, using Nimauqs formula you can expect

    Bait: 67.60% of the time
    Books: 6.99%
    Scrolls: 8.39%
    Gear: 17.02%

    But this doesn't include the quest level or the reward intensity (Scrolls looks deceptively large, doesn't it?)... However I don't know how to design a formula to count the number of times an item appears in Column E as a percentage, or even more usefully, to plot Column E results against either Column C or D to get how likely something in E is at that level of fish... any spreadsheet wizards available to help?
     
  20. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
    Moderator Professional Wiki Moderator Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter

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    Trying to remember - did they ever give the break points between the levels where each PS becomes available?

    If you have that, you should be able to make it to where the data on the first page checks the point value, then have 4 more pages of the spreadsheet, one for each category based on the point value, where the data gets mirrored for specific calculations. But, as it's been 18 years since my last spreadsheet class, I'd be the wrong person to figure out specifics on setting it up.
     
  21. Adol

    Adol Certifiable
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    No, we're having to guess where the break points are too; Nim set it up to record in units of 20 and it may be an even distribution of quests across that spread until you get over 120, but that's about all that's visible... hence I was thinking if you did it entirely by reward type against points you might be able to see roughly where it was... the Legendary bait at least is common enough to show where one should be, and possibly the 110 PS too.
     
  22. Adol

    Adol Certifiable
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    Quest #604.

    Whilst it proves there's definitely a set of baits in the very high end list, this one having not turned up before either... it's just... forthat many fish, which I only have from a solid month of chasing the Legendary, is just... just...

    Well, there are no words, really. 150/300 points of fish. 1x20 Crab, 1x Deep Sea, 4x Dungeon Fish.

    And it was...

    bait.

    *sobs*
     
  23. Pirate Roberts

    Stratics Veteran (LooT)

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    20 of each,
    Black Seabass, Bluefish, Red Drum, Bluegill Sunfish, Dungeon Chub, Snaggletooth Bass= 260 points if my calculations are correct and the prize is....yay 100 giant koi bait, I'm logging out for the night!
     
  24. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    I'm just starting to take up fishing again and hopefully will be working on fishers on a couple of shards in the near future. I'd like to help add data to the chart. However, I'm lost on what to put in columns C and D. I've tried browsing for threads that might explain it, but I think the terminology is still too foreign for me and I couldn't find anything. So if you could help me out by explaining what you want in those columns, it would be great. I'm using the Classic Client, if that makes any difference for column C (it says Pinco's...not sure if that means you have to be using the EC or not).

    Also, do I need to be logged into Google in order to add information to the chart?

    And will it matter if I'm putting in information for fishers at different skill levels and on different shards? The highest fishing skill I have right now on an account that has High Seas is just 90.5, so I have a long, long ways to go and lots of quests to do to get power scrolls.
     
  25. Adol

    Adol Certifiable
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    Hey there Tina, to answer your questions;

    There are two used values for the fish in the quest. The one the Pinco UI uses for the EC, and the ones mentioned on Stratics by a Dev as the internal values. It doesn't change the weighting of the quest, just the way it may be understood by the player. The values are;

    Pinco UI/EC

    Shallow Water Fish: 0.5
    Deep Sea Fish & Crabs/Lobsters: 1.0
    Dungeon Fish: 1.5

    Dev Mentioned Values:

    Shallow Water Fish: 1
    Deep Sea Fish & Crabs/Lobsters: 2
    Dungeon Fish: 3

    As you can see, the Pinco value is half that of the Dev stated. In the EC, you'll get the Pinco value when mousing over the fishing quest chest, so we used those values as the basis of the chart, as that's where most of the results were coming from. But you can work out your quest size by simply multiplying manually each line by the type of fish. Thus a quest that is;

    15x Shad
    20x Snow Crab
    10x Pike
    15x Tormented Pike

    is a 4 line quest, for a total of 62.5 (15x 1, 20x 1, 10x .5, 15 x 1.5) under the Pinco UI, and 125 if using the suggested Dev values (15x 2, 20x 2, 10x 1, 15x 3)

    So fill out the document with;

    Column B: 4
    Column C: 62.5
    Column D: This will autocomplete when you fill in C (it'll double the value in C)
    Column E: What the reward type was.

    If you match the style of the previous results (IE, use "OotD Handbook Volume X" "X PS" etc) it'll also be able to total up the percentage of types of reward at least, as you can see at the top of the sheet. I've yet to find a way to automatically get the percentage of individual rewards unfortunately...

    At the bottom of the screen, you can see a button that says Reward Score Ranges. Next click on this, and add 1 to the table to update the amount of that type of loot awarded. Again, I wish I could do this automatically too, so if anyone knows a way...? Also look at the maximum and minimum for that reward; it's using Pinco values again, so if your drop is outside of those, please update it. IE, the Oracle of the Seas has only dropped twice out of 830 quests, and both times from a 130 point quest, so the Value (Min) and Value (Max) are both 130 for now. If you've got one at higher or lower than 130, change the max/min to what your quest was.

    This is how I've come to suspect there's a break point for Legendary fish/crab baits at 100 points (Pinco, 200 Dev) as none so far have appeared below the 100 point value... Rare fish bait is however turning up at any reward value at all.

    "Rare" and "Legendary" fish are the terms used to denote the two different rarity values of fish as described by the Order Of The Dragonfish books. The rare are the ones like Bullfish, Yellowtail Barracuda that turn up maybe 1 catch in 50. The Legendary are the true trophies of a fisherperson's career, being only around 1 in 1000 to catch. Some like the Marlin are just in the deep sea of Trammel and Felucca, but honkingly rare... but most are somewhere deadly too, like in the Prism of Light or Terathan Keep, or require silly amounts of fishing quests to get both bait and traps, like the Void Lobster. I think I have the world's first production shard Void though thanks to Mim Foxglove on Europa giving me the bait I'd still not got... ;)

    However! My fisher long since got to reputation cap and is getting 20 fish every time, so it may be there's a 95 point limit for "Legendary" bait, which I won't ever get quests for now as it's not a multiple of 20, so absolutely yes it's worth adding your own developing fisherpeople's results!

    Shard shouldn't matter, I suspect there's just one loot table for everyone.

    And no, you don't need to be logged into Google to enter the data... although now google owns YouTube, it's hard not to be logged into Google constantly, the rascals! Sign out and it's fine...
     
    #25 Adol, May 4, 2013
    Last edited: May 4, 2013
  26. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    The COUNTIF function should work for keeping a tally of the various items, as long as everyone spells them correctly on the first page of the spreadsheet. I tried putting that function in on the second tab of the spreadsheet where you're tracking the totals of the various rewards. (You'll see my efforts in the history, I made sure I logged in before I started on it so it would be easier for you to see!). However, for some reason it didn't seem to work correctly on every line where I tried. Some lines it worked, and some it didn't. It almost seemed like the function wasn't looking at lines after a certain point in the first tab of the spreadsheet. I backed out all the changes I made because something didn't seem to be working correctly. But here's a screenshot (below) from when I first had it in there. I used the '$' in the range part of the formula so the range would stay the same every time you copied it and all you would have to change would be the last part of the formula, e.g., where it says "105 PS."

    CountIf function example.jpg

    One more dumb question for you. On some of the quests that I did this afternoon, I was delivering two orders to the same town. I could not figure out which reward went with which quest because they were both awarded one right after the other and with nothing to explain which quests they came from.

    Here are the quests I turned in and the rewards I received on those occasions. Can you help me figure out which rewards went with each quest and any general rule of thumb to use for similar situations in the future?

    • In Skara Brae, turned in one order for 10 Uncommon Shiner (from Vesper) and one order for 10 Haddock (from Moonglow). Rewards were Holy Mackerel Bait and Lava Lobster Trap. Which quest does each reward go with?
    • In Britain, turned in one order for 10 Rainbow Trout (from Skara Brae) and one order for 10 Haddock (from Jhelom). Rewards were Holy Mackerel Bait and Lava Proof Hook. Which quest goes with which reward?
    • In Vesper, turned in one order for 10 Brook Trout (from Britain) and one order for 10 Mahi-Mahi (from Jhelom). Rewards were Holy Mackerel Bait and Order of the Dragonfish Handbook, Part 2. Which quest goes with which reward?
    I have 15 quest results to put in, if I can figure out what to do to make sure I've got the right rewards paired up with the right quests when I had two quests for the same town.

    Thanks!
     
  27. Adol

    Adol Certifiable
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    Ahh, you know how to program better than I do, so I can't say how the document should work! Nimuaq when he was still with us wrote the routines behind the scenes, but I've not got the ability to take that part any further... so this may be where you can really help the community out!

    A real life friend and I just manually counted and cross checked all the data for the second tab, using CTRL-F to search for the number of hits (and I may have slowly drifted from accuracy as I've been manually maintaining it since), but as far as I am aware at least the actual reward types should all match to at least one data entry from the quest results . There may be a problem with the way Google Docs "sees" data in general, because sometimes the auto complete when typing a reward doesn't trigger, even for one I know is there. If you find it easier to merge into an Excel or other spreadsheet, and play with it there, please feel free to do so!

    Regarding the way to tell which quest is which... you can't, alas. I've been staggering my quests by simply not filling all the boxes at once when there are duplicates, so I can be sure which one gives which reward but unfortunately, looking at the min/max an item has turned up at, your quests are 10 Shallow or 10 Deep Sea, which are 5 or 10 points respectively, and either of the listed rewards, for all 3 examples, can turn up at that level of points. One may be slightly more likely to turn up or not, but we've not got the data yet to show that.

    Looking at the data on your behalf, I did however notice that the Holy Mackerel bait is so far is capping off very near to 100, so I suspect there's a few baits set as being "low end rewards"; the others are Fairy Salmon, Great Barracuda, Stone Crab, and Yellowtail Barracuda which all have quite a few results but are all capping at or near 100.

    So I suspect the loot tables are going to shake out something like this; I've used Legendary as a term because it's Legendary fish that are the rarest of baits...

    0----------------------------50------------------------100---------------------150-------------------180
    [Low end rewards-------------------------------------]..............................................
    [Medium level rewards---------------------------------------------------------------------------------]
    ..........................................................[High level rewards---------------------------]
    ..........................................................[Legendary rewards--------------------------]

    Why like this? I've stated all along that I believe there are two rolls made; it comes from the old Five On Friday Dev statement here;

    http://www.uoguide.com/FAQ_Friday_7_-_January_28,_2011

    The first roll is going to be "Type"; as I have often stated, and still believe, that this means there's a roll first for what kind of prize you get; and that, if we guessed the reward groupings right originally (That is, Bait, Books, Gear, Scrolls) you're rolling against somewhere near the percentages on the top of the first page of our document... IE, you'll always get a type of bait about 66% of the time etc.

    The second roll is for the specific loot table, IE what level of book, what type of gear... with the Oracle of the Seas say being Legendary.

    But... I think we can conclusively prove that the second part is still random, although the Devs may not feel so, in how we'll experience it; They may state "Well, you'll never ever get an Oracle of the Seas below X points, because it can't be in the loot table." However, you can still get the medium level reward too, because the Lava Lobster trap say, if that's in the "Gear" group as well, is there all the way to 150 points so far. We can tell from looking just at bait that some of them definitely do run across the entire spectrum of "weight"; Autumn Dragonfish (a Rare fish only) is the clearest example. You might get Void Lobster at the highest level of points, but you're also getting the Autumn which could turn up at the absolute smallest possible quest size as well.

    So I reckon the 4 "categories" are just differing odds on getting either a High or Legendary, with Legendary still being excessively rare but a bit more likely to turn up the larger your quest size was. And the Devs not understanding that, from their perspective getting Zombie Fish bait compared to Charybdis bait might be equal because both have identical ridiculously low odds, but to the player Zombie Fish bait is just yet more bloody bait, where as Charybdis bait unlocks a monster fighting experience... or for that matter, beyond 110 fishing it doesn't affect Osiredon/Charybdis summoning or chance to catch anything, so a PS115 is, in efficiency terms identical to a 120 scroll... but the players see it quite differently indeed!

    Incidentally, I wonder if that 100 point cut off for Low rewards, if I'm right about it being there, is where the cap for non-High Seas boat doing fishing quests is...? It would be an easy way to encourage people to upgrade, as they'd never get near the real goodies then.
     
    #27 Adol, May 5, 2013
    Last edited: May 5, 2013
  28. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    I think I will start doing as you suggested and if I have more than one crate for the same destination, I'll just fill one, claim the reward, fill the second, claim its reward, etc. until I get through them all. That way I'll know for sure which rewards go with specific quests. I will just exclude those six quests for now since I'm not absolutely positive about them.

    I horsed around in Excel and then in Google to set up a spreadsheet to calculate the points for orders that have up to 6 lines. You can find it here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aj2lpjetLFwwdDc0YUhxOVllaHRLbFpWczh0RTQ4NGc&usp=sharing . If anyone thinks it might be useful, just click on File and then Download and pick the Microsoft Excel format. (The OpenDocument format might work too to give you something functional, although I really don't know anything about that format.) I won't be updating that particular version; the data in it is just what I already had. The formulas in it are se tup so that if you misspell or don't completely spell out the name of a fish or crustacean, you'll get an error because it won't be found in the table on the second page of the spreadsheet. (The VLOOKUP function does let you do a lookup and use a value for the closest match it can find. I just didn't use the particular parameters to make the formulas work that way.) Your spreadsheet does have a nice little calculator in it to quickly come up with the point totals though. But I think I will for now be using my own just to keep track of what I did, as I'm just starting out with this.

    I will try making a copy of your spreadsheet, Adol, and see if I can figure out how to get the COUNTIF function working properly on the second page and let you know what I figure out, if anything. I'm not much of an expert on spreadsheets. I've just seen a few over the years that others have made that were pretty awesome. Now when I want to make my own, I usually figure that there's got to be some way to do something that I want it to do, it's just a matter of figuring out how to make it happen. It usually means lots of poking around in the Help section and then lots of trial and error. Sometimes I find something that works, other times I don't and it's back to square one. However, after looking at everything else that's in that spreadsheet and seeing how it works, I suspect Nimuaq definitely knew how to use the COUNTIF function and I wonder if he was having the same problem with it and that's why you ended up just having to use manual tallying. Just something buggy about it.
     
    #28 Tina Small, May 5, 2013
    Last edited: May 5, 2013
  29. LowdownandShifty

    LowdownandShifty Journeyman

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    MMmmmmm sometimes this whole fishing thing... ugh!
    Skill: 110.0 fishing
    20 Spiney Lobster
    20 Crusty Lobster
    20 Cape Cod
    20 Red Snook
    20 Amberjack
    20 Bluegill Sunfish
    Points: 110
    Reward: Lava Lobster Trap :oops: