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Give us a purpose in fel.....

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Zosimus, Jan 8, 2010.

  1. Zosimus

    Zosimus Grand Inquisitor
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    Just throwing some ideas out to the pvpers and maybe the pvmers who would take up this cause. I have played or play other Mythic/EA games. DaoC, Warhammer Online, and UO. Now playing all 3 and back into UO full force for a while now I see some of aspects of the other 2 games that I would like something similair thrown into UO but with its own uniquness to keep UO different then from the other games out there. Instead fo new expansions lets revamp and work with our current expansions.

    For example Daoc and Warhammer both have similar open RvR fighting but with a purpose. Keep and tower attacks plus defending your lands and attacking other lands. In DaoC and Keeps, Battlefield objectives and City sieges in Warhammer. In UO we have spawns and factions. Now my preference would like to add more of a purpose to going to fel then raiding/defending a spawn and yew gate fighting. Like give us a purpose to defend the faction cities as an example. Let us lay siege and the message comes up that Britain is unde siege so all TB can come to its defence.

    Instead of just turning red let your pvp kills mean something. I mean in War and DaoC your RvR kills meant something. Special mounts you could buy, special abilities from other classes in DaoC. You could get some nice rvr gear in War in the open rvr lakes or keeps.

    In both Daoc and War you had many different races but you also had sides. Daoc battles are epic since you have 3 sides to choose and could be fighting one side and here comes a zerg from the other side. War has 2 sides to choose from. At one time UO had Chaos and Order. I would love to see something Done with Chaos and Order.

    Instead of new expansions lets revamp PvP and have more of a purpose to go in fel. There are many possibilities to do with UO since thers is no limit. Im not asking to nerf classes or change the game totally. I want UO to be UO but we need more in fel then double resource to lure people into fel.
     
  2. Let me derail... now

    There really is no point to PvP but

    1 Factions.
    2 Enjoying the challenge to win.


    Insurance killed any point to looting.
    Insurance killed PvP stealing.

    Im not sure what could possibly be added that cant be addressed by number 1 and 2. Thats what it boils down too.
     
  3. Stupid Miner

    Stupid Miner Guest

    You already mentioned Factions does this to an extent. Could use some improving, though.

    Um, Factions already has these.

    Again... Factions.


    So... your post is basically just wanting to improve on Factions?
     
  4. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    Wow you can cross out #1 lol :p chokes ftw!
     
  5. Miriandel

    Miriandel Seasoned Veteran
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    Unfortunately... none of this does work.
    The downfall of Warhammer proved it once more, open PvP only leads to zerging and, while I enjoyed EVE online fleet warfare for several years, ganking is the lamest form of PvP IMHO.

    I probably deserve some good spanking for saying that, but the closest form of decent PvP available today is WoW arena or battlegrounds. Too bad the game mechanics are horrible and the lead designer hasn't the slightest clue about... well, about pretty much anything.

    Back in UO's early days, PvP was gorgeous because items didn't have the importance they have now (good luck engaging in PvP nowadays without a 120 combat skill powerscroll and top notch gear against 45DCI dudes) and, to be honest, the best PvP I remember of was the tournaments we organized weekly.

    After returning to UO in july and building up decent characters I was hoping for some nice PvP and was highly disappointed. How could someone even think about spending an evening PvPing when the first death means go watch TV for 20 minutes?
    Unless you have multiple accounts, chars, whatever.
    Clearly, PvP is not the main concern of the dev team. Not even a concern at all, probably.
     
  6. Death Adder

    Death Adder Guest

    I fondly remember farming for hours to get the fortification/invul plate and swords of power/vanquishing I used to dominate in PvP... those were the days :)
     
  7. Wakiza

    Wakiza Guest

    Ironic, I fondly remember killing people and taking there vanqs, and then using them to kill more people.
     
  8. Freelsy

    Freelsy Babbling Loonie
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    Siege Perilous :thumbup1:
     
  9. Thank you

    My vote is and will always be, get rid of insurance. Wanna save the crafter? Forget imbuing and BODs, get rid of insurance.
     
  10. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    I think we'll soon be seeing something new that will replace factions. My guess is that it will revolve around "loyalty" and your "loyalty rating."
     
  11. Astrel

    Astrel Guest

    UO has always been items based, the difference in the present time is that now everyone can make their own uber weapons and gear and powerscrolls are easy to obtain. In early UO gaining skill depended upon the general total of such a skill among all players on a shard, meaning that the more GMs there were the harder it was to gain an increase, so even reaching 80 in a skill or stat was difficult. And there I was, with my 80 in swordsmanship and a GM made sword and armor facing off against a GM Archer Dread Lord in invul armor and a vanq heavy xbow that would kill me in two hits (so much for the good old days).

    Tina is correct, there do appear to be some plans afoot to revise the current factions.
     
  12. Miriandel

    Miriandel Seasoned Veteran
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    Pass me the pipe, please, that's some good one you're smoking there :party:
    Gaining skill, especially sword you mentioned, was dead easy, it never took me more than a week to build a combat character.
    Should you mention taming, smithing or resisting spells, you would have ground for discussion, but swords?
    Come on, you can't be serious...

    Back in the days, I only used GM crafted gear and could face anyone. Those vanq weapons you mention didn't exactly grow on trees and wore off fast, they are more anecdotal than anything else.
    The last red mage I met (having 120 macing myself) just sat in front of me while I was helplessly weaving my mace in the air not hitting him. That got me wondering what happened with the game I used to know, the best PvP game of all time.
     
  13. Disease2

    Disease2 Guest

    Sorry Mirandel but you are wrong, if you played in 97 when UO first Launched then it was exactly as Astrel says, it was based on the total of GM's, I remember having the pride of getting to GM Swords, it took ages.

    That was at the same time when you could have the keys to your house Stolen out of your back pack, always copy one and leave it in your bank or you lost your house.
     
  14. Astrel

    Astrel Guest

    Yes Mirandel, the obvious giveaway that you did not play early UO was in mentioning your 120 macing; this was years before 120 skills were introduced. I also remember that anyone with 95 str was godlike, and usually only some smiths got this high. Anyone with GM in anything was godlike, as you didn't see that many, so it was kind of impressive to actually see one. Another peculiarity was that spells like ebs would follow you for miles.

    I was always getting owned by orc mages, who used to camp by themselves, and even reapers with their powerful flamestrikes were tough. People used to keep things like LLs in their houses for training resist, as you could gate any monster to your house and fence it in with boxes. For your average char, killing an LL usually turned into a long epic battle. I remember that it took me almost 2 years to gain GM resist on my tank mage, but GM resist was very effective in those days so your average group of 2 PKs with around 70 magery each was usually something to laugh at, and they never stopped running once you returned the attack.
     
  15. Miriandel

    Miriandel Seasoned Veteran
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    I don't know how you guys played, but getting GM swords, archery or fencing took me 7 days casual play back in 1997, not more, that's pretty much the only thing that didn't change from the day I left in 2000 until returning last year.
    The only skills that could be considered silly to raise were taming and resist, while resist, at least, could be macro'ed.
    Even becoming GM smith, which was insanely hard, didn't take more than a few weeks.

    Anyway, who cares, those are memories, the topic at hand is PvP.
     
  16. Astrel

    Astrel Guest

    Methinks you are talking about 2007, that sounds about right. As for having 120 skill, powerscrolls did not come into UO until Pub 16 in July 2002, a good five years after early UO, so, sorry, you were obviously not there.
     
  17. Mitzlplik_SP

    Mitzlplik_SP Guest

    No way did it take a few weeks to GM smithing. I remember it was so tedious I wouldn`t even do it. My friends GF ended up making the first GM smith in our lil clique and it took her MONTHS. I`m not calling you a liar of course so no offense,but I think your memory is a lil off about the old days.In reality there wasn`t alot you could do casually in a week. What I do remember is being effective with GM armor and weaps and I seldom had a vanq. Lots of power weapons for me but it wasn`t that big a deal.

    As for the complaints about zergs and whatnot,I`d hafta say get used to it. Even IRL we zerg. Armies don`t go out in tiny lil numbers to achieve their goals. DAoC was a zerg fest yes,but when two zergs met.....it was epic. To think a game company is going to be able to put a stop to the zerg factor is just wrong unless you just have 8x8 instances or somthing. If its open battlefields,there will be zergs...period.

    The zerging was not the downfall of WAR btw. It was prolly more to do with it not living up to the hype that EA spread about it. When the floodgates opened everyone realized the huge battles with lots of players was not possible. Lots of server crashes,lots of instability,lot of complaints and the fixes were slow in comming and word from EA that things were being handled was also slow and sometimes non existant. That was the main downfall of WAR.
    The only game IMO that handled mass pvp good was DAoC. Instead of creating a whole new game on a different engine etc....they should have capitalized on what made DAoC great and improved upon what they had instead of discarding the old and making something totally different and unfamiliar.
     
  18. Xenobia

    Xenobia Lore Keeper
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    I didn't pvp but I loved the adrenaline rush I got out of UO every single day I played. And the silver vanq that was THE THING to own. They would drop an ettin in no time! hehe Ahh the good old days.
     
  19. Disease2

    Disease2 Guest

    Maybe Mythic should use the DAOC engine and create UO 2/UOX like EA promised manytimes and failed to deliver.

    Warhammer was over hyped and thats why it failed, also people over estimate the percentage of people who want to PVP as a choice. UO was great in 97 because you had no choice, the only concensual part of PVP in 97 UO was when you concented to leaving town :)

    As soon as you ask people do you wat to be mining and have someone come up and attack you for no other reason than to kill you, the majority will say no, thats why UO introduced Trammel.
     
  20. Der Rock

    Der Rock Guest

    ?from wich point of view?

    1.scripting and cheating killed pvp
    2.imbalance killed pvp
    3.dry looting the players killed pvp
    4.stealing killed pvp
    5.stupid assassine behavior at champ killed uo (killing a player surrounded by monsters and half of hitpoints,then ambush him and 1hit kill him,lamest thing ever)
    6.as long as it is possible to kill a player in a sec or two,most people dont like to pvp

    and,many things in uo are still to scripter,cheater friendly.
    it is fact, that most people dont like to be only cannonfodder for the crank ;)
     
  21. Black Spirit

    Black Spirit Guest

    How are we to gain loyalty, and how will it work.
    Thx.
     
  22. sevan

    sevan Guest

    LOL That's UO I remember...
     
  23. sevan

    sevan Guest

    Not trying to start a 2d vs 3d or content vs graphics thread - but yeah I had renewed hopes that when EA came under the Mythic umbrella that we can would finally get 3D UO
     
  24. legendsguy

    legendsguy Sage
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    good point. in uo you die in a split-second before you even know what happened.
     
  25. hawkeye_pike

    hawkeye_pike Babbling Loonie
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    (What is Rvr?)

    Separating PvP from the rest of the gameplay by game mechanics (PvP zones, PvP switches, instances, facets) has always been a failure. In all MMORPGs, PvP is considered an essential part of the game. If a game designer cannot solve the problem of player griefing in a different way, he is probably not good enough for the job.

    Inventing Trammel and Felucca was an emergency solution for UO back then, cause players were leaving the game because of rampant mass-murdering and cheating. However, although the player numbers increased after that change, the drawbacks were so immense that it damaged the game until today.

    One of the basic concepts of UO was (and that's what made UO special) that the players would govern themselves. It didn't work out cause the game was not ready for it and lacked of possibilities to prevent evil in an undivided world.

    I can think of good solutions for this. Those who are interested can read about it here.
     
  26. Zosimus

    Zosimus Grand Inquisitor
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    Well to reply to a couple of posts. Factions should be more then what they are atm. DaoC & Warhammer gives way more reasons to RvR then UO does with factions. Items, yes can be said comparable but the main focus of fel is who controls the spawns. My point is make it a reason to go to fel, be a red and pvp. Power scrolls and yew gate is a little old. Faction revamp was nice but still needs work.For example: Land and city control, city sieges, access to a new non-raidable champ spawn if you prove your faction worthy where you can gain special items if you defend or win the siege.

    RvR is Realm versus Realm. Great concept. You choose a side and play that side. Dont like that side then go play the other side but either you have to have mutiple accounts or delete your chars. No trash talking between the sides since ya limted to only dissing your own realm you chose to play on lol.

    The topic is more to throw out ideas and maybe the Dev's may listen or run with an idea. We have the land mass but not the masses to keep them full. Lets use what we have now and improve. Malas could even use some improvement.
     
  27. spivey

    spivey Guest

    From what I remember, the only skill that was a pain to gm was taming. Gmd my smith with the help of the Power Hour. Also, during power hour, we would get a boat and put a player on the boat to work his resist. Get 3 mage and cast Deamons and have them attack the player, while the mages healed. Back in the day, there was no limit on how many Deamons could be cast, just mana was a factor.

    My experience with PvP. Had a char that could not even fight a mongbat and I had him out working lumberjacking. I ran into a red and he cut me down, but did not loot me, as I had nothing of worth. (Like a mongbat) It's one thing to be a criminal, but a totally different thing when the PKr is more like a serial killer. Kill just to kill.

    Another time, had my mule out minning. Filled up a whole cave with ore, PKr was hiding, then pounced on me. He took all of my ore. This, I did not have a problem with, as there was a purpose for the kill.

    What broke me from PvP was a speedhacker. Soon after I got my warrior to good stats and could hold his own, I went out with a friend to do some "FUN" PvP. We run into someone---with a lot more skill that our chars---that was also moving in stuttering, fast speed. We could not catch him, and he could catch us easy. Went to Tram after that and never looked back.
     
  28. Disease2

    Disease2 Guest


    Power Hour was not in the original UO, Power Hour was ages after, so again it's no comparison.
     
  29. Hmm started a tammer in 1997, its now 2010 and i just got him to 118.3.
     
  30. Freelsy

    Freelsy Babbling Loonie
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    Power Hour and the Bone wall in deceit FTW!!!

    Nothing was to hard to raise. I didn't start playing until 1998 though...maybe things changed in a year...
     
  31. Surgeries

    Surgeries Grand Poobah
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    When everyone already has a crafter...like they do now...what's there to save again?

    Oh yeah...open looting and stealing! :mf_prop:

    What was I thinking!! All the Fun and Excitement!!

    Man I almost fell for that!!

    :lol:
     
  32. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    The only answer to this that I can think of is the supply of resources. If they can get rid of the damn scripters, and work it so that resource supply takes too much time for most players to supply all their crafters, then we might be able to get back to something like what it used to be.

    Other than that, maybe this poster is just talkin' talk he's heard and hasn't thought through, but generally agree with your sentiment.
     
  33. kaio

    kaio Sage
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    shard vs shard ala' wow's battlegrounds could be alot of fun.