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Global Chat Content

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Bethany_lg, Feb 24, 2010.

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  1. Bethany_lg

    Bethany_lg Journeyman
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    As you can see by my post count, i almost never have an opinion I care strongly enough about to discuss. I've coming here everyday for years and years. I'll start by saying I really like the global chat system. It has added to gameplay in several ways, from trading to hunting to just increased communication across the shard.

    But having a system with no one to police it is irresponsible. I am not easily offended, and I have a colorful vocabulary. But I have read things that have made my jaw drop. Read multiple instances of racial, cultural and homophobic bigotry. And it's bothersome that the only way to avoid it is to withdraw from the community, and let those that would abuse the system take control of it. There has to be a better answer than that.
     
  2. DevilsOwn

    DevilsOwn Stratics Legend
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  3. Aran

    Aran INFRACTION INFRACTION INFRACTION!
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    Don't like it? leave, make your own channel.
     
  4. DevilsOwn

    DevilsOwn Stratics Legend
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    that part, Aran
     
  5. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    I've been thinking about this, and I think a potential partial solution is to change the name of the default channel to "General--Trammel," like it was during the testing period for global chat.

    Let's face it; most of (indeed, almost all of!!) the offensive dialogue comes from PvPers chewing one another out, and chewing out non-PvPers when other PvPers weren't available. During the testing period, I was often able to get them to leave by pointing out they were smack talking in the Trammel channel. Most of the time they would clam up; presumably they went to the Felucca channel and continued as they were.

    Right now, there's a "General" channel and a "General--Trammel" channel. Not only does this imply that Trammel is the specialized audience, which clearly isn't the case as most players never leave it, but it also means I have no argument to use to tell smack-talkers to leave. The presence of a good argument seems to matter more than you'd think it would.

    As of now, telling them to leave would be like telling someone who posts in U-Hall to ask for help with his necro-samurai template that he should be posting in the warrior forum. Sure that's a good point, but why wouldn't such a question belong in U-Hall? Just because it would also belong someplace isn't a good argument that it shouldn't be in U-Hall.

    So again, all they have to do to help at least a bit is change the default from "General" to "General--Trammel." While this won't provide us with a potentially effective argument against all of the worst parts of global chat, it will against at least some of it. And of course someone bound and determined to harass isn't going to be swayed by any argument.....But I feel that what I propose is at least potentially helpful.

    -Galen's player
     
  6. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Thank god I make my own channel to go to....

    But really I can't stand the language in the general chat.
     
  7. Bethany_lg

    Bethany_lg Journeyman
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    In all honesty, the boys talking smack isn't what offended me. F bombs are dropping everywhere and other vulgarities are flying by, and it is inappropriate. Like I said my language can be just as colorful, except I would refrain from using it in global chat.

    But what got me today was just outright bigotry. towards races and religions and cultures. People spouting crap that has zero context within the game. Just out and out hate speech.

    The answer can't be as was suggested to just leave the chat, let it continue and never say anything about it. Shouldn't be that hard for someone in authority to monitor a little bit. No big penalities, a little jail time. Timeout for a day or two. Something that might make people think before they type because there may be consequences.
     
  8. Schuyler Bain

    Schuyler Bain Lore Master
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    I don't disagree, but as they seem to be updating the chat system a few steps at a time the new ignore feature is a step in the right direction. At least you can take action yourself if it gets too out of hand.
     
  9. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
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    Just like the game in general policing is a simple and effective tool. Doesn't have to be a 24-7 to work. Random times random servers anything done in the game is investigated and boot to 4th point of contact is applied. Just like the childish antics on chat needs cleaning so do other points of the game. Someone wants to be fouled mouthed on chat while an observer sees it.........Bamm they are not banned but a channel 103.5EVIL is their new and only home. And like minded plp can jion them. Banning is not the only answer the devs just need to rub that left and right brain cells together for ideals. Doesn't take rocket science to know someone is up to no good at the Queen's Forge. There are hotspots in the game and just like players have another system for mindless things so should a GM. How many idiots on chat would not be around if the Library or the Museum turn ins had been observed from the start.

    I just know my Ignore list is growing and I find it funny reading one sided conversations. I like this ignore list for weeding out those I would never want to sell or buy from. Just need to make it apply to the account and not a character like house banning.
     
  10. AesSedai

    AesSedai Guest

    - I honestly haven't looked into this much, but might this be of some help to clean up the global chat content?
    http://vboards.stratics.com/showpost.php?p=1533589&postcount=26

    - Even if they don't respond immediately, once you file a 'harassment petition' the text should be saved for a GM to review...
     
  11. Readydood

    Readydood Guest

    I am one of those people who believes nothing should be censored. If someone wants to spew hate speech, then people should either just ignore him or engage him. I've shut more people up than I can remember by verbally slaughtering them. Then again, I've also been that guy who you've wanted to shut up or die.

    At the end of the day, they are just words and the only power they hold is what you assign to them.
     
  12. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    Welcome to Barrens Chat... UO Style
     
  13. Mitzlplik_SP

    Mitzlplik_SP Guest

    I don`t care about the f bombs so much but it does get out of hand with other things,like race and whatnot.

    Its sad that people can`t even stop their fingers from pushing the buttons. I mean really. I can see a slip of the tongue,happens everyday. Lots of people don`t think before they talk,thats excusable most times. Typing though? Really? Can`t refrain from being an ******* on the interweb or in a game? I think that says volumes about that person. I think it has something to do with RL inadequacies or maybe they can only be a telephone tuff guy because IRL someone would knock them on thier stupid ass quik and fast.I think for these types of people the internet/ingame is the only safe way to be tuff without fear of RL consequences.

    No excuse for it in my book. I`ve got no qualms about ignoring someone. I`m not leaving my chat just cause some asshat feels the need to provoke peaple with their stupidity. I still see everyone I wanna see and still have a nice semi (I don`t mind the occasional swearing)clean game. The only person who is missing out is that f`ing ****** that will never get a reply from me in chat if I`m asked something by him. Absolutely not my loss.

    Ignore is a great thing,if they really irratate ya with racial stuff,report them using that method uptop in another post. They may not have something happen to them right away,but rest assured,if enough report these types of people the problem will be dealt with. Especially since the log will be right there in the GM`s face.

    *Edit* I should mention that lately SP chat has been great. With the absence of the biggest ****** since Sean Hannity ,chats been entertaining to say the least. Props to all you guys who **** talk with a little cooth.:)
     
  14. Aran

    Aran INFRACTION INFRACTION INFRACTION!
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    We need a free-for-all, no RoC chat channel where everyone there knows the risks of being in that channel, so that we don't have to worry about offending the precious little flowers of UHall.
     
  15. No, what we really need are adults that act like adults and don't use the anonymity of the internet to vent their frustrations at being taunted, teased, and beaten in high school because they were the "nerd" of the class. No one would say half of the stuff that's said in game if they were standing face to face. If they did they'd get the crap beaten out of them.
     
  16. Kellgory

    Kellgory Certifiable
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    Problem is that the rules don't get inforced and the majority of the people know it so they say whatever they want. Back in the day when there were more people playing, if you said something wrong they would ban your account and it didn't matter if you claimed it was a typo. Now you can page a GM every day for months about someone using racial/sexual/derogatory language and nothing gets done and you know nothing was done because you see the char running around everyday. Now with global chat, the Dev's just gave them a large audience to spew their filth where in the past they were pretty much limited to saying crap while standing in guardzone on a blue or from their house. So yeah the EA people can mention the TOS all they want and how it will be enforced, but for now as far as the language section goes, they can cut that section out and use it as a coaster or toilet paper. Just my thoughts.
     
  17. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    If I am not mistaken....Much of the RoC is.....vague at best, and all of it is "as determined by the support staff"

    With this being said if you combine certain parts of the RoC you can come up with things that seemingly protect from this type of language, but really its either up for interpretation or has to be directed at the person(s) filing the complaint.

    But I have to say even if people have "actions" brought against them it is never banning, a friend of mine was talking about Jewish people in a very non-negative manner and someone decided to page on him for using the word "Jews" and EA (or who ever you wish to blame) put negative marks on his account for it, no banning just simple marks against his account. Either way it is very speculatory(is this not a word?) or up to the staff to determine what is right and wrong.
     
  18. sablestorm

    sablestorm Certifiable
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    In general, bigotry is outlawed. If you say it in UO, you risk getting banned. Can you not page on these people? I know chat shows up in my saved journals so hopefully there's a way for the to see if these banable things are being said in chat.
     
  19. Aran

    Aran INFRACTION INFRACTION INFRACTION!
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    Spoken like a guy who got a LOT of swirlies.
     
  20. T'Challa

    T'Challa Certifiable
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    You have a lot to learn. Many folks have no qualms about telling you what they think, positive or negative, and have no worries about "getting the crap beaten out of them"

    That said, the hate speech in general chat is ridiculous. I'm not condoning it, but the ignore feature is there. Use it. Don't pull dev time for something that you are completely in control of. This goes to everyone in this thread, not just he whom I replied to.
     
  21. Zosimus

    Zosimus Grand Inquisitor
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    Ok EA Mythic may see this post. I have played 2 other of their games. DaoC and Warhammer online. The way their global works is one side can see what is being said while the other side cant. You talk in global just your side since warhammer has 2 sides and DaoC had 3 sides. Eliminates that bs drama besides ya own side crying at each other but its 100 times better then what we have atm. They just cant do that in UO since their is no side to choose so how to fix it is beyond me besides scrapping it. When ya seeing illegal apps openly talked in global chat that really helps the new player out doesnt it? He is corrupted before he even thought of cheating :p
     
  22. AesSedai

    AesSedai Guest

    - Any chat content that violates the ToS should be reported and the offender should have their account marked.
    Period.
    Otherwise it is a lie for UO to have a ESRB rating of T.
    (Yes I wish it was still M as well, & then having an 'adult' chat room might actually be relevant.. but then a M rating would just allow for even more immaturity & also prevent the teenagers from playing if their parents actively monitor what they play, as they should).

    This really is not the place for us to judge for we do not make the rules.
     
  23. Bethany_lg

    Bethany_lg Journeyman
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    I brought this here because whether or not I like it, a third party fan site is basically our only voice to the the makers of the game. Almost every mmorpg has global chat of some type and I have never seen any thing like the language used in our global chat. And as far as saving journal logs and stuff like that, I have no idea how it's done nor do I want to. I pay to play the game not to take on the responsibility of policing it.

    In general, i am a live and let live kind of player, I am not talking about name calling and the like. That is an entirely different situation, but one that probably should be cleaned up too. Last night one clever wordsmith managed to use the f word 7 times in one surprisingly small sentence. And one conversation was entirely too sexual for a teen game, usually you need a credit card to read stuff like that. Even the offensive things that sent me here...it just doesn't belong in general global chat.

    My intention was simply to say the global chat content is over the top and should be addressed. not calling for sever punishment. Give us a clear code of conduct for global chat. Make an 18 and over chat channel. Be a little bit responsible for the things added to the game, because I don't wanna police you. And I don't want you policing me. We should all be playing not trying to figure out how to word our complaints to avoid getting a canned response.
     
  24. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    Ignore doesn't cut it when it comes to hate speech. It should not be tolerated in any way.
     
  25. Zosimus

    Zosimus Grand Inquisitor
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    Well since its you're opinion that we have a lot to learn discussion is a good way to gain knowledge. We have a right to voice our opinion negative or postive as you even said. Any issue in the game is dev time. IRL ya cant use the ignore feature can you? You can ignore to a point but when its up in your face how much can you really ignore? How would the devs feel about hate language, offensive language, ect ect being said in front of them for hours a night or in front of their kids or family? I doubt they take it to kindly. They need to address it.

    Next time the dev are out to dinner with a date, family or whoever and the table beside them language and immaturity is out of control, then maybe they may know how some of UO community feels. The only difference is in that situation they can go and complain and the offenders either get kicked from the restraunt or asked to be quiet.
     
  26. No, more like you do. How someone speaks to another is directly related to how big they are, as opposed to how big the other guy is, and if what's said can be construed as an insult. Most people don't say whatever pops into their head when looking someone in the face. They censor their own speech before their mouths get them into trouble they can't get out of.
     
  27. How about this Aran... People be accountable for being over the top. Nothing more enjoyable then watching ice holes (like ice fishing) flex feathers in a your momma battle and make fools of themselves.

    No place for that in a game. They should go to ICQ and start their own room.


    Great point OP. It doesnt bother me but I agree that they should be held accountable without chasing you out.

    Make your own channel. Right. The point of global is it is default and everyone has access to it. If you cant be respectful they should ban your account from global chat. You can still play the game. That would be cool.
     

  28. IRL life a 100 people dont listen to you in a split second. Being anonymous breeds this type of behavior. Its not real life. Its global chat. It should be policed. I agree.
     
  29. Ding dong. I agree. Lots of cowards, like me,hide behind the keys. We should be policed. The stuff said in G-Chat wouldnt happen IRL. Sure with peers maybe.

    Could you see 200 people in a conference room and the people spewing racial slurs and vulgar language go up to a microphone and say what they say in global chat.

    Would never happen. Just ban people from global chat.
     
  30. Schuyler Bain

    Schuyler Bain Lore Master
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    /agreed

    It's like I tell my kids... "Don't write a check your butt can't cash." (I did not come up with this little gem, but it has served me and mine well)
     
  31. You are wrong, they arent ALWAYS just words. There is intent in words.

    If you and I are verbally sparring sure they are words and at the end of the day we grab a beer. But you and I know we are sparring.

    However, not all words are just words, they are intended to harm, bring anger, knock down, antagonize, and all that.

    Depends who is who.

    Some are just children flexing muscle.
     
  32. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    Words can be incitable. There's a danger in that.
     
  33. Berethrain

    Berethrain Slightly Crazed
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    It is against the terms of service......there is more to it than like it or leave, regardless of what you'd like to convince yourself of.
     
  34. They might need to make "foul-mouthed adults only-Felucca" and "kiddies only-Tram" channels and remove the appropriate groups from the general discussion channel.

    Personally, I'm not offended by anything they say; if I don't like it, I either join the discussion and put in my own 2 cents worth, ignore them, put them on my ignore list, change channels or leave chat for a while, all depending on my mood at the time. I don't see any reason to stop them from venting their hatreds and frustrations in a non-physical, non-violent format, but there are a few kiddies left among us who don't need to hear the adults-only language and the spewings of hatred and vitriol that sometimes dominate the default chat channel.

    Maybe instead of any default at all, when they first log in, a popup will make them choose between "fel-general", "fel-adults only", "tram-general", "tram-kiddies", "trade", "help", "rants & raves-adults only", "discussions of a sexual nature-adults only", etc. or "no chat".
     
  35. Berethrain

    Berethrain Slightly Crazed
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    Nah, most people should be able to decide the channel for themselves or remove themselves/ignore accordingly as a simple fix. But it doesn't excuse the lack of moderation with canned responses. Those in violation should be banned for a few days like it used to be handled. On multiple offenses the account banned permanently.
     
  36. AesSedai

    AesSedai Guest

    - Personally, I'm not offended by almost any of it either. It actually helps me determine who I might like to play some UO with and who I won't waste any time on.

    But as you have agreed, this is not about us (or me); this is about a game rated T and players breaking the rules of the game.

    By my thinking: If someone breaks a game rule then they should be penalized else the rules will continue to be broken and as a result the game will continue to suffer.
     
  37. We have children (both tweens and young teens) that play this game. They shouldn't have to lose out on part of the game because some jackass with a mouth that's bigger than his brain decides UO is a good place to show his ignorance. The game has a Teen rating. Act accordingly.
     
  38. Aran

    Aran INFRACTION INFRACTION INFRACTION!
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    Lots of crying.
     
  39. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    Banning these people would decrease UO's bottom line so you have to realise there is a valid reason for such dialogue being allowed. Until something over-rides that concern, nothing will be done.

    Print out this thread along with the TOS and mail it to EA's President with a formal letter expressing your concern. I imagine the mere thought of the possible PR & Legal problems if some parent got truely ticked and talked some Reporter into checking the situation out and documenting it would get the problem dealt with PDQ.
     
  40. Jhym

    Jhym Guest

    I can agree with your feelings about the matter, but free speech is a requirement. Otherwise anyone who loved elves could get all ticked off at me calling them pointy-eared nerfherders that haven't done a day of work in their lives and try to have me imprisoned.

    The simplest answer is if it is speech that is definitively against the TOS, you can page on them in chat and EA will deal with it to their capability. You can also ignore the parties entirely (which usually annoys them far more than it does you, since they feed on people giving them attention.) If you were feeling feisty you can just misunderstand everything they talk about and see how long it takes before they go over the line to be fully pageable.

    Smack talk is just so cute, it's almost like they think they are cool or something.

    :popcorn:
     
  41. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    That would be in-game Role-playing. Not the same thing.

    It's the RL related stuff that violates the ToS and shouldn't be heard by the youngsters who play this game. That is the problem.

    Free Speech has it's limits. You can express any opinion you want, just don't be foul-mouthed when you do it. A guy in a park got ticked and rattled off a truely impressive line of swear words. If I recall right he got 30 days for using such speech in front of children. He left the park in cuffs. Civilized society will only tolerate so much.
     
  42. Schuyler Bain

    Schuyler Bain Lore Master
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    Woo Hoo - Someone who understands free speech! Free Speech does not mean a Free for All - there are still rules/guidelines.

    *tips tricorne at Tanivar*
     
  43. Berethrain

    Berethrain Slightly Crazed
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    Post count +1.
     
  44. sablestorm

    sablestorm Certifiable
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    Aye, a person who yells "Fire!" in a crowded place, causes a panic, a stampede, and deaths cannot after the fact say he was protected by free speech. This guy will be in trouble. So remember, the free speech argument isn't a magical uber excuse to say whatever you want, whenever you want.
     
  45. canary

    canary Guest

    Pot meet kettle.

    You do read your very own posts on stratics, right? rolleyes:
     
  46. Aran

    Aran INFRACTION INFRACTION INFRACTION!
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    Freedom means freedom. Any restriction by the government is unconstitutional.
     
  47. You need to read the constitution if you truly think that's what it says. Freedom of speech can't infringe on another's right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Using racial slurs and extensive vulgarities do just that.
     
  48. Yes, I do Mr Kettle.
     
  49. Berethrain

    Berethrain Slightly Crazed
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    This doesn't include infringing on others.


    Edit: What Connor said. Didn't read it before I posted..
     
  50. Aran

    Aran INFRACTION INFRACTION INFRACTION!
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    Declaration of Independence != Constitution.
     
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