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GO TO UHALL AND POST IN PASSIVE DETECT!

Discussion in 'UO Siege Perilous' started by Lord_Puffy, Mar 28, 2008.

  1. Lord_Puffy

    Lord_Puffy Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

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    i know there are some who wont agree but we got our petball fixes by all posting...


    lets make this shard be a little more visable populated.... I mean I can see why no one wants to come here when 90% of the people are hidden.
     
  2. Rykus

    Rykus Guest

    /signed

    It's ridiculous that the 'veteran shard' is the easiest shard for stealthers.
     
  3. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I disagree. Passive detect on Atlantic completely negates stealth. If they tweaked it, I might not mind, but somebody with no DH on their template should never be able to passively detect a stealther with 120 stealth.

    Vets on this shard have lots of methods to handle stealthers. Earthquake, conflag pots, explosion pots, chain lightning, poison strike, meteor swarm, not to mention tracking and detect.

    It might be better to vent about smoke bombs instead. Those do make hiding and stealth somewhat overpowered.
     
  4. Perhaps they mind speedhackers, people dropping houses on them, etc...

    Edit: Did I mention scammers?
     
  5. Guest

    Guest Guest

    my quote from uohall:

    <blockquote><hr>

    the only problem about stealth itself is how you dont have to use the skill anymore, once you are invisible in any way, you can just keep walking and dont have to care about anything. the real problem however are things like stealthing in animal forms, attacking out of stealth and instantly swinging and the ability to hide no matter what (smokebombs) - even if its just after attacking someone. im sure passive detect would help, however thats not really a solution to the problem, its just a way to make it a little bit harder for stealthers. more has to be done than just tossing in passive detect.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    so yes, while i agree that passive detect isnt the right thing, i disagree that there are ways to detect someone in an effective way. unless the stealther is sleeping, you will never be able to hit him with earthquake, meteor swarms, explosion pots or chainlightning, he can stealth way too quickly in animal form. conflag pots have a too big delay and a too small area to actually reveal someone. poison strike im not sure how youd want to reveal anything but afks with it. tracking still has the old problem of the arrow being delayed and usually quite a bit off. detect is quite useless due to the chance to reveal someone compared to the speed it can be used/hiding can be used.

    but as i said, stealth isnt the problem. its mainly ninjitsu combined with it or hiding. as of right now it doesnt matter at all of you get detected or not. if you do just instantly rehide, if they flag on you either smokebomb or just run at full speed in animal form (which youll most likely be in already) and hide around a corner. there is no way you can get a stealther who knows what hes doing, not with 30 people trying to get him. if he doesnt give you a chance to kill him, you wont. and he can always pop out of hiding doing an instant 40 damage resskilling or getting a killshot of on someone and instantly be hidden and gone again.
     
  6. Guest

    Guest Guest

    what people dont seem to understand is that noone is trying to nerve the defensiv power at all. its the offensive power coming with it. we have the luck right now that no guild does it properly, otherwise you couldnt walk around on siege at all anymore.


    <blockquote><hr>

    think that passive detect should be tied to a person's DH skill, or perhaps comparing tracking+DH to hide+stealth. I think that smoke bombs should have the same restrictions as hiding does. I'd be willing to consider prohibiting stealthing in animal forms - or at least restricting stealth to walking speed while in animal forms.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    ps: from what i know, passive detect actually is compared to someones detect hiding. the princip would even be good too. every step you make gives a check with everyone in range. not only the peoples detect and your stealth play a role, also the range is calculated in and the closer you get to someone the bigger the chance of getting revealed. the problem with passive detect is that when you walk up to a group of 10 people and get somewhat close, even if each one of them only has 5% chance to reveal you and getting closer to them wouldnt increase it, every time you make a step, you have 10 checks going on with each of them revealing you with a 5% chance. that is where passive detect fails pretty much.


    pps: im still a fan of back when you had to count steps, didnt have forms or smokebombs. back then, nobody cried about how weak stealth was. but now its impossible to change it, because everyone will cry how useless stealth will be even if you only do the smallest change to it.
     
  7. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Lol, maybe we should shower Krystal with gifts so that she can train us all to be leet archer pk's.
     
  8. Guest

    Guest Guest

    the sad part is she was so good with the chiv template. the only thing killing it was her not knowing when to stop staying between 10 enemies.
     
  9. Guest

    Guest Guest

    mmm dude its not that hard she still pk' and pvp the same way she did back when I was in Zen.... From a house...
     
  10. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Yeah, I know. It's not that hard. I used to run such an archer on Atlantic, and I'd almost never die.

    However, I also couldn't take anyone down on my own very often. I could get in the dismounts and gimpy lasthit kills or rezkills, which racked up my kills, but I couldn't do much on my own. I got tired of it and came to siege.
     
  11. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I don't think passive detect is the way to go.

    I rather saw tracking back to be possible ay 20.1 in tracking, no matter of the stealthers skills. At least if close to each others (7 tiles).
    I also wish exp pots and field spells to unhide stealthers again. At least if close to each others (4 tiles).

    This way, a stealther will be safe as long noone know he is around but if discovered, he should be in trouble.

    I too want visible players [​IMG]
     
  12. I honestly think the petball changes will decrease the number of stealthers around. I know many people went stealth just to avoid the stealth pet ambushes. Now that jsv is not running stealth tamers I don't mind running visible at all.

    I didn't go out against you much shak tho because you ran bola+petballs with mage support. I have died to you enough that I learned my lesson and just stayed inside when I saw you around. Since I knew the petball changes were comming, I figured I might as well wait rather than adapt now.

    Don't worry k0c, there will be plenty of goron and strangelove to kill for some time to come. I have no plans of going back stealth.
     
  13. Guest

    Guest Guest

    i hardly doubt it, i dont even believe anyone saying it has to do with the tamers. jsv didnt change how they run tamers pretty much. they always had a few, but they were as dangerous as wild dragons. just standing around and if you ran into them they might attack you.

    when i came back, i was first playing a sword dexer with an ornate axe, then changed to an archer. but quite soon i figured out that i need to change my template. and no, the problem wasnt tamers at all, they didnt bother at all. the problem were that every second guy on the shard was a stealth archer. so yes i started playing a tamer. but guess what, at least i had neither hiding nor stealth. you didnt have to be surprised all of a sudden having pets on you. you had the choice if you wanted to stay around and get attacked or bail. doesnt make it less lame, but at least more avoidable. but i can already tell you guys, i was playing it yesterday. it still works absolutely perfect as defense against the popping out stealthers. so ill for sure stick with it until the stealth situation gets better [​IMG]
     
  14. Jeremiah (JSV)

    Jeremiah (JSV) Visitor

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    passive detect is ********, you should have to actually use detect not just be able to run around and reveal people who have invested skill points in their template.
     
  15. Alas, I have not seen you on the pvp field until AFTER jsv toned down the tamers. When was the last time you saw dyno out and about? how about twilight, dyno, beorn all at the same time? It used to be like that nightly. Not anymore. And, I don't understand how youc laim they were like wild dragons? They didn't bring their dragon in until after you were dismounted by a stealth archer.

    <blockquote><hr>

    you didnt have to be surprised all of a sudden having pets on you. you had the choice if you wanted to stay around and get attacked or bail. doesnt make it less lame, but at least more avoidable.

    [/ QUOTE ]Exactly. So tell me- am I a house hiding lamer when I stay inside? choosing to avoid you? According to your guildmates, I am. (I've never seen you talk that [censored], but your guildies whine all the time). So I would come out and get myself killed. After doing that 5, 6 times, I realized it wasn't much fun. I don't enjoy fighting k0c 1v8. So I have started doing exactly what you suggest, I 'bail'. But I find that to not be much fun either. I want to pvp. But I want to at least die *trying*.
    Taking 80 damage from your super dragon while off screen doesn;t give me much of a chance to fight back- usually it kills me. 1 bite + one off screen fire breath kills Goron at 95 hp. Due to my lack of mage skills, I have little ability to heal through that or even try dealing damage to you- you just hit animal form and book it. I am not good enough to stop you, thus I lose interest in fighting you. Do I think your template is overpowered and invincible? god no. All I need to do is put my taming back on and I bet I could give you a run for your money. Or I could just stealth, or, even better, I can always just stay away from you in any template, because I see you coming.

    But I have chosen to try mage out, and I am aware that I do not have the ability to defeat you. I am aware that I lose to you 100% of the time. I have done it enough that I have decided to stop fighting you altogether. Accuse me of whatever you'd like, but until I get better at being a mage I don't see the logic in continuing to fight you.

    I can't say the same for stealth archers though. I have actually won some fights as Goron, and I have escaped many more against an assortment of other templates including stealth based ones.


    Again, I am not claiming you are invincible, I am simply stating that I can survive better with my template against a stealther (non pre petball change tamer) than I can against a petball tamer.
     
  16. Guest

    Guest Guest

    LOl the lack of passive detect was 1 of the things that maked me go to SP
     
  17. Guest

    Guest Guest

    yes i do, i never claimed to be any good. but i can still claim to be better than people like you. and if you interpretate that as bragging now, you should rethink where i rate your pvp abilities.
     
  18. Guest

    Guest Guest

    yes i did. however the tamers never were the problem for me, the problem were the stealtharchers that without a danger could come between a group of 10, dismount one, smokebomb and stealth away quick enough that you couldnt catch no matter what you did unless you were just waiting for them to do it with 10 mages and everyone something precasted. the tamers just did the finishing up someone on foot. you could have done that with other templates too, pets for sure help but again its the stealth that allows the tamer to run up, pick one off and get away into safety without having to worry at all.

    however, ill say it again, jsv had alot of tamers, but most of them were as useless as wild dragons, no petballs, no animal forms, just standing in the group with the other stealthers. of course they had 1-3 tamers using petballs. but name me one guild that didnt have those. bg did, koc did, tnt did, otf did, waka did, i wouldnt know one that didnt.


    and dont get me wrong, i never accused you of anything, i never accused anyone of playing something at all. everyone has to decide for themself what to play. however im in the same exact situation as you are. i was playing an archer just to constantly get jumped by groups of 5-10 stealthers. only difference is i didnt try to avoid it but changed my template to one that is stronger compared to stealthers. and now i can handle stealthers very well and havent died to one in a few days.
     
  19. angelus aconitum

    angelus aconitum Journeyman
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

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    The problem is not the skill stealth or hiding, but the animal form and archers using hiding skill.
    I have a normal hiding/stealth/swords/poisoning/Heal/Ana/Tact combo and I am not overpowered.
    I also remember that I got regularely detect by a player who used the detect hidden skill, so there are ways to counter hiding/stealth beside explo pots, earthquake and what not else.
    So instead of nerfing only hiding/stealth, better nerf the combination of some skills like hiding/stealth/archery or hiding/stealth/animal form.
     
  20. Guest

    Guest Guest

    which would be exactly what i said [​IMG]
     
  21. Not much point in getting into a debate about who is and who isn't a good PvPer.

    I'll tell you in general though how I rate PvPer's.

    1. Anyone who cheats with a speed hack or lag hack or other such thing isn't a good PvP'er. If they need those to compete they aren't any good. I don't think you fall into this category although you drink potions awfully quickly...

    2. Anyone running the overpowered template of the day is not a good PvPer. This is you through and through. Your strength is that you are a copycat. You do a good job figuring out what tactic is currently overpowered, and then using it endlessly. I used to think you thought those up on your own, then when I got in vent with you, my opinion changed. Hence, you currently run a tamer with a superdragon. Gee, no one else is doing that.

    On the other hand, a good PvPer is someone who can be successful on a number of different templates at the same time, perhaps ones that no one else is using. I've never seen you do this.

    A good PvPer doesn't have to win all the time because he or she knows that they aren't invincible, hence they don't need to cheat or resort to a gimp template because winning and losing are both to be expected.
     
  22. Sir Ha-ward

    Sir Ha-ward Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    I think that passive detect should be tied to a person's DH skill, or perhaps comparing tracking+DH to hide+stealth. I think that smoke bombs should have the same restrictions as hiding does. I'd be willing to consider prohibiting stealthing in animal forms - or at least restricting stealth to walking speed while in animal forms.

    [/ QUOTE ]


    This i like.
     
  23. Guest

    Guest Guest

    1. thanks for your rating, however i usually dont drink potions at all due to running twohanders, and when i do i usually cant find the macro for them instantly, so im not sure why youd think i chugg them fast.

    2. not exactly correct, i dont think i ever copied someones template. until i got hacked, most my templates were based on chivalry which wasnt used at all. since then, ive been running a spellweaving chiv archer and a wrestle healingmage. youd have to name me one who ran that like me before. of course there is only so many templates and on prodoshard they run all kind of templates. but i dont look there and usually dont equip the same as people on prodoshard.
    however lets get back on topic. is designing your template part of pvpskill or not? i always said its as much part as things like situational awareness, analyzing enemies weakness and knowing how to play your template. but thats just my opinion.
    about using different templates, i certainly used lots of them, quite alot that noone else was using at the time. if i did well or not, well, thats a matter of view. id say i did alright considering my old comp, specially on templates like mages i did horrible. doing different templates at the same time, that would be somewhat hard sounds a bit too challenging to me, i only have 2 hands after all :O

    but then again i never said im good [​IMG]
     
  24. <blockquote><hr>

    is designing your template part of pvpskill or not?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    That is an interesting question. My gut reaction is no.

    However, I do take pride in playing templates that no one else is using. Perhaps template creation isn't a part of PvP skill, however using the same overpowered template everyone else is using demonstrates a lack of skill in that it is an admission that one needs that crutch to compete.

    I remember you for running a necro when necro was overpowered. Then, when it was adjusted your necro went away.

    I remember you running a blue bushido archer, then when crits were fixed, that template went away.

    I remember you trying to play a mage and being absolutely horrible at it, of course pure mages have been nerfed endlessly so I could see that, especially with your connection.

    These days you run a tamer which has always been a theme for you. Tamers are good for people with bad connections. They are also gimp templates for those who have trouble doing much else.

    I think you are also running a running shot archer aren't you? That template pretty much fits in with the other gimp styles.

    I'm sure I'm missing a lot of variations, I know you spent a lot of time training, those are just the ones I most remember. I remember you as a blue tamer most of all....hardly a PvP'er desired legacy.
     
  25. Sir Ha-ward

    Sir Ha-ward Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    2. Anyone running the overpowered template of the day is not a good PvPer. This is you through and through. Your strength is that you are a copycat. You do a good job figuring out what tactic is currently overpowered, and then using it endlessly. I used to think you thought those up on your own, then when I got in vent with you, my opinion changed. Hence, you currently run a tamer with a superdragon. Gee, no one else is doing that.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Dude, this is what your guild has done forever. How are you going to sit there and say otherwise and if you have been in vent with Shak then you know that these templates have all been his idea, most all of the OTF ask him for template advice. How are you going to sit there and talk out your backside like this? You piss and moan about cheats which is flat out hilarious. Remember you sitting in the GZ doing your all kill, all follow me trick? Even when i point out what your doing to be 100% sure you know what your doing you still did that? Hypocrite much?
    I dont even need to bring up the thing with Mos tower anymore to show how big of a hypocrite you are , i can point out how you "supposedly" left your alliance when King Ed brought up Krystal IRL, yet in game you have brought my and my wifes RL name up and insulted my 2 yr old child? (which by coinsidense i screenshotted and showed to my wife, we both got a kick out of it knowing that i had gotten to you so bad behind your monitor that you brought up my family lol)
    So once again, hypocrite much? The people here that I see pissing and moaning about others are the same ones who have these same cheaters in their guild, most recently one of the other guilds had someone post a screeny of them using an illegal program, so before any of you come here pancakes about us, you need to clean out your own yards before you try to point fingers at ours, thx


    <blockquote><hr>

    They are also gimp templates for those who have trouble doing much else.


    [/ QUOTE ]


    Once again hypocrite, Id like to see you say that in your vent seeing that your guild was 50% tamers there for some time. But now, sot so much, though you still have them, i wonder how they feel about this comment?
     
  26. Guest

    Guest Guest

    RTLFC

    Stealthers are not the problem that is making people not want to play. It's the people carrying chessboards. I'm sure they are only carrying them in case of a raid by Bobby Fisher...
     
  27. <blockquote><hr>

    RTLFC

    Stealthers are not the problem that is making people not want to play. It's the people carrying chessboards. I'm sure they are only carrying them in case of a raid by Bobby Fisher...

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Not likely, he is sitting at the big chessboard in the sky.
     
  28. Guest

    Guest Guest

    You folks need to be a bit more respectful of one anothers opinions. I am weary of the personal attacks as well. Knock it off people.
     
  29. I know you've been gone a while, might want to get up to speed with what guild I'm in before you go any further.
     
  30. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    I remember you for running a necro when necro was overpowered. Then, when it was adjusted your necro went away.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    my first template when i started siege 5 years ago was a necrofencingmage (slova). then i ran an archermage with a regular crossbow (kulharin). and of course i regularily ran necro on acrabarr and shakaja, sometimes even on shakamura. of course i ran it when there wasnt a fc cap for it, but also played it when the 2 cap came in and before it was affected by fc.

    <blockquote><hr>

    I remember you running a blue bushido archer, then when crits were fixed, that template went away.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    but yet again, i was the first to run a bushido archer, before shortbows and elven composites were used using a regular bow. i was the first bushidomacer before that using a heavy weapon (warhammer). the only dexer that was using bushido before me was william x which ran one with a dagger. also i ran bushidoarcher during the day with an elvencomposite when everyone else started playing that and i played one with a composite after they fixed ar ignore damage and crits.

    <blockquote><hr>

    I remember you trying to play a mage and being absolutely horrible at it, of course pure mages have been nerfed endlessly so I could see that, especially with your connection.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    exactly what i said, played every possible combination that made sense with magery. ping doesnt help with casting and i could hardly stay alive when i didnt play a bushido mage.

    <blockquote><hr>

    These days you run a tamer which has always been a theme for you. Tamers are good for people with bad connections. They are also gimp templates for those who have trouble doing much else.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    however, most of the time i wasnt using a all kill and forget template. it was most of the time a template that used taming as support. be that a archer with chivalry, tactics and anatomy doing lots of damage with the weapon or a special spamming one or a scribe/necromage one. right now i play one that isnt poled to offense but defense. again, im not hiding at all, but i have enough defense to survive against multiple dexers and pets.

    <blockquote><hr>

    I think you are also running a running shot archer aren't you? That template pretty much fits in with the other gimp styles.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    aye, still thoo being the first that used a template based on movingshots on siege. only revvo ran the dryad bow with high stam before me but thats not exactly a moving shot template. and calling a template gimp is always a compliment, usually means its well designed [​IMG]


    but see, now that we talked quite abit about me, lets look at you for a second. i only remember two templates of you. one being the chivmage on scorn and the other being the chivdexer on evermore. id like to hear your ratings on those two without going first.
     
  31. Sir Ha-ward

    Sir Ha-ward Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    I know you've been gone a while, might want to get up to speed with what guild I'm in before you go any further.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Meh, ill give you that. You maybe in a different guild or alliance and i have no knowledge of it. Still havent commented on you being a hypocrite with having a fit about ed bringing up Krystals IRL and then you doing the same on mine a month earlier. No worries here though dude, I got a good laugh out of it and hope to see it more in game. It says alot about a person doing things such as that [​IMG]
     
  32. I think you say and do the things you do in hopes of getting people riled up.

    The same goes for me when it comes to you.

    As long as we understand each other, no harm done.
     
  33. <blockquote><hr>

    but see, now that we talked quite abit about me, lets look at you for a second. i only remember two templates of you. one being the chivmage on scorn and the other being the chivdexer on evermore. id like to hear your ratings on those two without going first.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Scorn is a necro mage. Chiv dexxer is a fun template. As you said, not many use chivalry, its hard to equip for properly. High survivability, less offense, fights won by attrition some times.

    One of these days I'll have a contest and we'll see who can figure out what I'm running on 10 accounts. (Not all at once of course).
     
  34. Guest

    Guest Guest

    well id still like to hear from you how well you play them. creativity bonus you most likely wont get for any of those templates. and of course youd have to not keep it secret, what accounts you play to get any rating on them.
     
  35. Necro mage is pretty common. That changed was forced by ninja nerf. Was a bit more creative before that.

    If there is anyone else on the shard running 115 chivalry on a template, I'd be shocked.

    As for character names and templates, that would spoil the contest and we can't have that.
     
  36. Guest

    Guest Guest

    i ran 120 chiv templates alot [​IMG]

    but mines werent focused on chiv, just came with it. i was too late for that one. the only one basing them on it i ever saw was will x.
     
  37. Right, when Will ran chiv holy light was a half second faster. That was crazy.

    I haven't seen anyone but me cast holy light in a long, long time.

    As for evaluations, I'd say I'm very average on a necro mage. I spent so much time fighting them, I guess I see their faults a little too readily.

    On a 4/4 chiv/bushido dexxer, I'd say I play that as well as anyone...would need "the" weapon to be really dangerous offensively with that template and "the" weapon has never been available.
     
  38. Guest

    Guest Guest

    aye, thats why im saying i kinda missed that time. last time i used it was on a bushidoparry guy with 120 chiv. slower weapon with those for disrupt.
     
  39. Sir Ha-ward

    Sir Ha-ward Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    I think you say and do the things you do in hopes of getting people riled up.

    The same goes for me when it comes to you.


    [/ QUOTE ]


    The trick is trying to find something to rile me up, have to find a weak spot first, and to date youve not done that [​IMG]
     
  40. Apparently, Shak's honor is a soft spot.

    [​IMG]

    Nice of you to defend him but as you can see, he can hold his own.

    Farewell.

    See you in Moonglow next time.
     
  41. Sir Ha-ward

    Sir Ha-ward Guest

    Defending someone and agreeing is two different things. Seeing as how you and one other loser on here point fingers when you have no idea what your talking about is the main point of my posts here.
    But ya, keep posting and proving my points hyp man.

    Farewell, see ya from the outside of your house

    [​IMG]
     
  42. Guest

    Guest Guest

    honor i dont have or know, i thought that was obvious by now. but id hardly hope you dont expect me to sort through houses and not get bored with that.
     
  43. Jeremiah (JSV)

    Jeremiah (JSV) Visitor

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    perhaps i should have a passive attack tied directly to my mage skill that does damage to anyone within 7 tiles, or passive steal tied directly to my stealing skill so i can take all your regs and arrows by just walking around.
     
  44. UberJake

    UberJake Guest

    How about passive stupidity? Oh wait.....

    Passive detect probably isn't the best answer though but returning stealth too it's old form would be a better option. Make a stealther wait after hiding before they can stealth and remove the auto restealth option so a stealther has to count his steps before reusing the stealth skill before he reveals. Skilled stealthers will be no worse off, everyone left playing Siege will be screwed.
     
  45. Sir Ha-ward

    Sir Ha-ward Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    perhaps i should have a passive attack tied directly to my mage skill that does damage to anyone within 7 tiles, or passive steal tied directly to my stealing skill so i can take all your regs and arrows by just walking around.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I assure you, this is not at all ********.
     
  46. Guest

    Guest Guest

    You guys are pushing it.