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Gold, filthy wealth and observations

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Conleth, Sep 21, 2015.

  1. Conleth

    Conleth Journeyman

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    Bit o' background; played UO since 2000 odd. Spent last 3 years off due to EA bad billing and loss from decay because of it.

    Decided to give UO another go! :)

    But; as a new/returning vet I can speak with *some authority about what I perceive in the game. Folks can agree or not, but from my perspective here are where we all are:

    The game is filthy rich. The imbalance is weighty on players like me, both returning and new players. Gear that remained on my characters is now utter crap; All right, it gives me something to aim higher for. Sweet.

    Only, it's not. It's neigh impossible to earn gold here now unless you already have gold here. I'd like to farm critters and pay for myself...my insurance (as without even the lesser gear I have I'd be dead fighting even easiest spawn), my reagents, you know, the very basic stuff. I'm not talking housing, not talking uber gear with DCI/LMC and whatnot, just reasonable resists even.

    As it stands now, on a standard prodo shard, a new player, or a returning player who was never filthy rich, will have some darned serious trouble. And I've not even written about crafting expense, yikes. (I used to be able to hold my own but with imbuing and other skills required of crafters, not to mention the costs of commodities to craft things it is no longer viable.)

    I still love the game in theory, but in practicality? It's become a real grind. I may not be the best player out there but I'm not the worst either. Call me average. Average player, not so average downside.

    I'm not sure what the answer is, but it's worth thinking on.

    Cheers!
     
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  2. S_S

    S_S Certifiable
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    I think you are just being lazy. I can start a new char on ANY shard, stand around the moonglow moongate and kill mongbats with my bare hands. Triple my first 1k gold to 3k gold. Start trade quests that take zero skill or armor. Get a few pink scrolls, sell them and be well on my way with gold. This is just one example of many on how players can start off with very little.
     
  3. Merlin

    Merlin The Enchanter
    Moderator Professional Governor Campaign Patron UWF

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    One aspect of the this game that is still prevalent is community. Yes, new players start off very poor compared to established players, but if you join a guild or find other players willing to help, 9 times out of 10 then will outright give you gold and gear to get you on your way.

    For example, if you're playing on Atlantic, please ICQ me and I will meet up with you in-game to provide you with some better gear. No strings attached.
     
  4. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    in my opinion its easier now to start from scratch than its ever been. you wont becomea billionaire overnight, but can gear a new character to a more than playable level very cheaply.

    you said you were a mage, enchanted kelp woven leggings can sometime be found as cheap as 10k, and are an extremely good artifact.

    also, have you tried looking into the vvv system? you get 2k free silver and with that you can buy orny (identical to old faction orny) crimson cincture, then 2 other things (or keep the points for when those 2 eventually wear out becuase their antique (can repair, but they lose durability faster)

    from there you can kill ratman archers and buy / sell the archers to npcs. join in some public scalis if you can find it, or an exodus run, or go to an EM event just to loot the armor. youll get extremely good gear for free. even the "worthless" gear now is very usable if your talking about gearing after a few years off.
     
  5. virtualhabitat

    virtualhabitat Lore Keeper
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    Alchemist/Cook. Make potions to grow plants. grow plants for dyes and orange petals.
    Buy apples from farmer. Make potions to combine with apples to make enchanted apples.
    Buy eggs from farmer. Combine reagents with eggs to make smoke bombs. Or combine eggs and flour for egg bombs.

    Sell dyes, orange petals, enchanted apples, and smoke bombs. make some gold. Buy things you want with gold.

    People still buy leather. Lots of leather.
    Powder of translocation sells very well on every shard.

    None of these resources/products require fancy suits or power-scrolled characters and will make you lots of money if done correctly.
     
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  6. Conleth

    Conleth Journeyman

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    I may not agree with everyone here, but I respect your opinions. @S_S I could be being lazy, but I don't feel I am. I may not be hunting inside the safety of a moongate area (some folks might even call that lazy itself) but I am going to new places (new to me at least), such as ter mur. I mean seriously, after 10 years or so, would anyone want to stand inside a moongate? All you good folk may yawn at the prospect of ter mur but for me it's brand new. And I don't mind farming slime there. Because it's new. Still, gold and earning gold isn't what it used to be. We all did start out on a level playing field after all. The disparity is ghastly now, though. And being a drain on old friends is not exactly my idea of ideal. I do wonder if the gold sinks could be reworked? Ideas?
    @Merlin you're kind to offer. What I loved and love about UO is the ability to be a self made character. I'd like to think it's still true? Maybe I'm going about it wrong...I'm open to ideas. I've always been on the 'helpful' side as opposed to being helped I guess. Cheers mate.
    @Smoot, that's some good info. I expect it to take time to get to know all the new gear, so input like yours (and others) is really constructive and helpful. So is your gold earning strategy. Could be that I have some old habits that die hard and just need to ask folks. ? I do think about other players and wonder; do they get discouraged? Will they?
    @virtualhabitat, that's some more awesome advice. I've always enjoyed crafting, my fav being armor/tailor, but cooking can be every bit as rewarding; finanicially and more. Cheers

    @folksingeneral Some of what's happening I think is a more localized problem, such as playing on a smaller server. It has it's charms (the folks! the ping!), and it's drawbacks (hard to find items/commodities/player vendors).

    I guess I may need to recalibrate. ? It's one thing to hunt/socialize, and another to absolutely need to rely on other folks to do so. Does that make sense? I guess what I'm trying to say is that I like the idea of choice.

    Cheers!
     
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  7. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    If you have the right upgrades on your account look at what some of the vendor booths in Magincia are buying. Sometimes it's ingots or leather. You can easily fill these requests. Sometimes Vets like friends I know don't feel like gathering and will buy things from other players there.

    Also find out when your shard has EM events..... even in bad armor you can sometimes score a drop off the EM event.... and if you're willing to part with it they can sell for 100's of millions making you instantly rich.

    Farming decent armor in shame or wrong is NOT that hard. Yes it may take a LONG time but eventually you can piece together something decent.

    And Merlin is 100% correct. Find a guild. There are still many around who enjoy helping new and returning players get back on their feet. I know on GLs we do it quite often. Granted when I do it I'm not giving you an uber suit but I often give new or returning players things like the Kelp leggings, a somewhat decent weapon and such to upgrade them to the new base standards. Though I always hope folk will stay and join the RP community I know it's not for everyone.

    I know there are groups on many shards that do this. Try leaving the Help channel and joining the General chat channel.
     
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  8. Slayvite

    Slayvite Certifiable
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    It's the same in any game that has been going for a long time.
    Heck, start a new char in EVE and see how far you get these days ;)

    If you want to skip the "grind" and get rich quick the buy transfer tokens from the origin shop and sell them ingame, 50mill each on Europa.
     
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  9. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Nah man, you just need to learn to play the game again. I assure you, you don't need money to do everything just fine. Make some friends, kills some dragons or something, train imbuing. You'll be on your feet in a week or two. Just remember you don't NEED any of those 100m items. You can use a plain ole imbued item and do 95% as well, unless you pvp.
     
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  10. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    I'm solo 99.9% of the time, I have never had much money, I have like... 500k in the bank at the moment. I imbue armor I make myself, that is all I ever use, and I can do anything in game except solo some bosses. You can do likewise, just need to get your bearings.

    Trade quest is a good starting place I think, as was mentioned. Easy way to get enough gold to either train imbuing or get pay some friendly person a few 100k for a quality suit.

    Oh yeah! Maybe try to tame 2 bouras... they take nearly no skill, they can tank really well, and kill middling stuff pretty easy.
     
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  11. Lord GOD(GOD)

    Lord GOD(GOD) Lore Master

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    Pretty much agree with this. It's easier than ever to make good money and gear in UO. All it takes it a little thought and creativity. Anything new that comes out as a drop is usually worth 10m plus on the first day. There are dozens of templates that can effortlessly kill anything with very little risk, or expense.

    My start anywhere with nothing tip would be to make a Thrower. Then give them Necro, Mysticism, Spellweaving or Ninjitsu. Spellweaving and Ninjitsu being the cheapest options. ... Why? Because you don't need ammo, you don't need regs, and unless you're fighting something that casts or has breath you don't even need to heal. Assuming you can move a character around the screen you're golden, you can do the SA mini spawns, you can do the champ spawns. Later I'd recommend making a Provoker and Discorder.
     
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  12. Conleth

    Conleth Journeyman

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    Just to clear it up a bit;

    I had not one but two gifts of a million gold. AND a LRC suit. This because I was assured that the game would be pretty darned hard without LRC... so I said thank you, banked the suit, kept the checks on me so I wouldn't eat into them, and out of curiousity/independence I've spent the last couple of weeks ingame, in new areas, getting a feel for it. Pretty awesome on the whole.

    But I am losing gold. The sink is working, very nice. But working a little too well? The folks that are wealthy remain so, good on them. I reckon they've earned it.

    Those that aren't, it's a hard thing to insure your gear, buy regs, farm and save but still see that your gold is vanishing. I'd like to return the favour I received (gifting to newbs in some way), and not be spongy. Heh. So could just be that I need to relearn what's what. Back in the day you could log in a newbie, and go to town hacking undead in the cemetary up North. Yeah, you'd die, but it was *doable.

    I spent the first ten to fifteen hours ingame with folks, when I came back, got shown some pretty cool stuff, then went on my own to do things that I enjoy but they didn't; ter mur puzzles and such, farming spawn there; farmed it pretty well, tho evidently not well enough...and just generally getting a feel for SA dungeon.

    I wonder, if I'm having a spot of trouble, will others? Have others?

    @MalagAste yep, EM events a good idea too. I missed one already (maybe two), but I'll be going. :) One thing I've seen in my travels (on other shards at least) are a ton of EM event items. Maybe I'll get an item, but I'd go for the sport of it. Item wouldn't hurt tho! hehe

    @Slayvite I'd like to skip the 'grind', insofar as losing more gold than I'm earning. Like I said, could just be that I suck! :/

    @Uvtha I'm about 50/50, hanging with folks and going solo. I think you've a good point as do others, I need to learn the game again, that's clear! The trade quest suggestion is a solid one to those that suggested it.

    @Lord GOD(GOD) Yeah, keen on templates that won't cost so start with nothing sounds good. Another friend suggested begging for a couple of reasons, so I've been doing that but really pretty much don't like that skill. I enjoy hunting, puzzles, more action. Begging is fine for a secondary skill but I don't want to train it up this early. :p And while I've been training it up because it doesn't cost, I definitely don't want to HAVE to train it up.

    Guess that's my point. heh

    Cheers everyone.
     
    #12 Conleth, Sep 21, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2015
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  13. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    Out of curiosity, what's it costing you to insure your suit, weapons, and anything else you're running around with that's insured? Insurance costs have decreased from what they once were, unless you're wearing pretty uber gear and/or insuring random pieces of loot you pick up, especially if it has the "Prized" property on it (that property increases the insurance cost while not necessarily guaranteeing the piece is actually worthy of the "prized" label).

    Also, why are you buying regs? If you're buying them for training, be sure to look in the forums here for tips on how to train alchemy or inscription using the least possible amount of regs. You might also ask around if anyone on your shard can sell you some in bulk. With the huge number of IDOCs that have occurred in recent years, there could easily be someone who is sitting on lots of regs they will never be able to use.

    Good luck to you and welcome back. I hope you can find ways to enjoy yourself without succumbing to the pressure to feel like you have to have billions and billions of gold in the bank and/or to shell out extra RL money beyond your regular subscription fees to enjoy UO and/or to bend the game's rules to make yourself in-game wealthy.
     
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  14. Conleth

    Conleth Journeyman

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    Thanks :)
    I am enjoying myself else I'd not be here. But I do have some reservations and can use some ideas. Lucky for me folks are posting here and have taken time to help out in chat too. Wealth hasn't been the thing so much, it's just getting by that has. ;)

    Cheers

    (Edited to add the following):

    Ah and I didn't just unilaterally ignore your question/s. I thought I'd have a proper look at exactly what items are costing what, insurance wise. It's not the loot I'm pulling, far as I can see, 'prized' doesn't mean anything at all, I have been checking the stats on everything. I like to send anything decent straight to the bank (tho again, sending bags and powders are really pricey). I'll have a look at those costs asap. Good question.
     
    #14 Conleth, Sep 21, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2015
  15. Capt. Lucky

    Capt. Lucky Crazed Zealot

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    I was disappointed when I came back cause I always did the fancy shirt thing that paid pretty decent to get some seed money. But that got nerfed too.
     
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  16. Lord GOD(GOD)

    Lord GOD(GOD) Lore Master

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    I can't see why you're losing more than you're making, or what gold sinks you're referring to. If you're using LRC you don't need regs. If you're not playing in Fel you don't even need to insure your stuff unless you regularly go and die in places where you're body is irretrievable, which is easily solved... just don't, even if the monster loots your gear it's corpse is instanced to you to get it back.

    With a couple of mil and an LRC suit you're more than equipped for the level of difficulty you're implying. There's nothing stopping you covering your insurance deaths (if that's what it is) by fireballing a couple of Arctic Ogre Lords each time.

    Get a vendor. Do Ilshenar Champ Spawns there's a few hundred thousand on the floor after each one. Plus Replica drops, SOT's. Use Slayer books, EV's and Energy Bolts are enough to kill Balrons with. Dragon Slayer Flame Strike White Wyrms. SA mini champs, Imbuing ingredients and artifacts. Doom.

    I wouldn't waste time with skills like Begging that are notoriously slow and give poor returns, save stuff like that for when you have a house, a soulstone farm and enough SOT's to GM it in an instant.
     
  17. Lord GOD(GOD)

    Lord GOD(GOD) Lore Master

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    I think you're making it all way more complicated than it needs to be. If it's pricey to use send bags... don't use them, the only ones I use are ones I've looted off of people in Fel, just go to the bank.
     
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  18. Gamer_Goblin

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    Ma Nerva on Atlantic runs seed quests and sells them for 100k each. New players can do this quest. She's usually in Help and will show you how if you're on Atlantic. I use send bags for gold only, personally.

    Also, on all shards, you can grind up Mining to GM and grind Gold Elementals in Blackthorns dungeon. Smelt the ore as you go and sell it or use it for cleanup points toward items to sell.
     
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  19. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Not true about insuring your suit in Tram. Many, many creatures in Tram LOOT... and they can and will loot your gear if it's not insured.

    As for Prized items they can cost WAY more to insure than normal items.

    As for bags and powder why pay for them? I don't. I just go get my own. I suppose that's part of my "self sufficiency" obsession. Doing the quest for the bags and powder is fairly simple. You might look into that. Besides which those that farm the stuff can make a few extra coins selling bags and powder.
     
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  20. Conleth

    Conleth Journeyman

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    Just in case anyone is curious;

    Cleared up an IDOC today. Not sure how I feel about them, but it was there and so was I, so I grabbed stuff. Got some regs, arrow/bolts, crafting stuff and more; that'll all keep me for a good while. I'd been getting to the point that I was having trouble keeping my stuff insured, and didn 't really want to dip into those gold gifts.

    I do run insurance in Tram because sure enough you will get looted there. Critters are a little different these days! Liches especially, geez. Actually...just about anything with hands and half a brain. Even though my gear isn't all that great, some of it is still pretty insurance pricey. I carry a Boomstick, for example, and I think it runs about 350 gold. I have a couple bits that cost that much, though they're pretty old nowadays. Don't quote me, I'm not ingame atm, but if memory serves. I can say that I don't insure anything that I pull unless it has a lot of good mods on it. The rest I generally keep so that I can break them down later, to learn imbuing. :)

    Enjoy all!
     
  21. Merus

    Merus Babbling Loonie
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    I have to agree with those who have said that making gold has got to be far easier now than at any point I can remember (since I started in 1998).

    Knowledge is the key.

    For example: I can start a brand new character on any shard and (without any handouts) make about 100k in gold plus 2-10 million from selling items within 24-48 hours of creation. That is more than enough seed money to purchase basic suits and whatnot to start building characters.
     
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  22. Conleth

    Conleth Journeyman

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    Great!

    Turns out *I can start a brand new character on any shard and (without any handouts) make about 1000K in gold plus 2-10 BILLION from selling items within 24-48 hours of creation.
    See?
    I can make claims too.
    hehe
    Cheers

    PS Do wonder about being able to do that on the least populated shard on the planet, though. (Oce) You'd be lucky to find anyone there at all on any given day, I think.
     
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  23. Merus

    Merus Babbling Loonie
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    Except I've done what I claimed many times.... And all of them were on low population shards.
     
  24. Zerbee

    Zerbee Journeyman
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    Wow people in this topic are so unaware of what it is like to be a new or a really old returning player.
    Is it easy to start up fresh and get yourself going? Of course!

    Is it easy to do that if you are new or haven't played in years and have no idea of all the resources available? No!

    So many of you are all saying "Oh just go kill these things, then do these trade quests, then boom gold!"
    "Join a guild and do public hunts for easy gear!"

    Some of you even list options such as buying the really cheap artifacts for a few thousand as a quick way of gearing up..

    How exactly is a new player supposed to know this? You are all listing ways on how to start off based on knowledge you have gained over a vast amount of time of playing.
    If someone brand new picked up the game today they wouldn't know about the trade quests for easy gold, selling SoTs and running the market, public Scalis/Narvey runs, etc.

    Which is why I agree with the OP, there is a huge imbalance for new/returning players. In reality the only way to successfully get anywhere in this game if you are new nowadays is to rely on the community to guide you through direct help, advice, or searching forums like this. There is no way a new player is going to think "Oh I just started, let me go run some trade quests for some gold and SoTs to make a quick profit!" They will probably be too busy learning to click on themselves to activate insurance so they don't go losing all their progress every time they take one step in the wrong direction. You are all looking at it in a self-centered perspective when you are not taking in account what the OP was saying with the perspective of new players or returning players.
     
    #24 Zerbee, Sep 23, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2015
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  25. Vermin

    Vermin Adventurer

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    I came back after 12 years away. I killed skels and zombies and was amazed how quickly I made gold compared to when I previously played. I googled how to make gold as a newbie, and then went and made several hundred thousand in no time killing birds and selling their feathers to NPCs and buying cheap bottles and selling high. At that point I didn't even know what gargoyle players were - I kept thinking they were NPCs, until I killed all the spectral weavers that one was using for resists and they got ****ty at me. I had nearly a million before I even found out about Luna. It's not that difficult if you're willing to spend a little while on google and invest some time getting established (and lets be honest, being a genuine noob at any point in time in UO has been about grind).

    If you really want to make it easier, then write some starter guides for people to google. It is where anyone starting a game like this should be looking first anyway.

    I think the economy, for all it's inflation, is quite good. When you're starting out, you can quickly make enough money to get better. As you get better, you can easily make enough money to get semi-decent gear. You want higher end gear, you can work towards it. Takes a bit of effort, but you never feel that it is completely impossible. And at the same time, there is always that item that is out of reach for you to work towards. Getting a full set of best in class gear should take time - the game is 18 years old, you shouldn't be fully suited out in end game gear inside a month.
     
  26. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Why is this a bad thing? How is this different from any other game? When you hop in fresh you know very little about whats going on. Luckily people here were able to give him advice, as others in game would have as well I am sure. Obviously UO could use better documentation, but still new people will always have a lot to learn.

    First of all, this was all about the disparity of wealth, which has nothing to do with what you mention. Second of all, those ideas (trade quest) were just suggestions. Some of the other suggestions are pretty easy to figure out for yourself, like tame some pets, kill some weak stuff, talk to people make friends to hunt with.
    If I were new I would probably run around in the woods and kill stuff, eventually after talking to people/reading websites I would learn what was valuable and what was not, where to get things, how to train skills, etc... Just like any other game.

    I don't see how those of us who played this game for years are to blame for new players being, well... new.
     
    #26 Uvtha, Sep 23, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2015
  27. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Yup. This game has needed an offical guide for, uh forever. It can take a while to find all the UO sites you need to have bookmarked.

    Thank you for posting that. I really don't think it's so hard being a new player if you ask questions in game and look around on the web.
     
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  28. belkins1

    belkins1 Adventurer
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    to the OP!

    Not sure about other shards but on sonoma shard queen mom has a house setup right outside of luna mint/gate with a rune library, books about new things to do and how to info, chests on second floor setup for donation armor/weapons for newbie/returning players like yourself...

    and of course you can always use general chat and ask for info/help in game.. just because you don't see anyone does not mean no one is on.. there is so much to do know people are all over doing there thing.
     
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  29. Merlin

    Merlin The Enchanter
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    I came back three years ago after a 10 year hiatus, and I still remember quite well the pains of being a new player. For someone who plays the game and doesn't interact with community in-game (or atleast here on Stratics), it will be exceedingly difficult to simply pick up all the game mechanics AND learn what types of quests/activities can be done to make money in a short amount of time. It's easier said than done to simply say "Do X, Y and Z and you'll get millions in no time". I think some of the replies we've seen here discount the depth of this game and that most new players are really just trying to get the basics down first.

    However, if a new player comes to a smaller shard and insists on playing by themselves... it's simply going to be a very long learning curve. It's going to be painfully difficult to self teach the game to yourself. You HAVE to interact with the community if you're a completely fresh player. And gaining wealth doesn't and won't happen over night. You have to learn first and likely get in with a group to play some of the higher end bosses and other more involved quests. And even then... as other posts have noted... you're not going to be able to compete with multi-year veterans within a month of playing the game. Certainly not in PVP, and even in PVM, you're likely going to be more in a supporting role than truly managing entire hunts and bosses on your own.

    So remember to take a deep breath, take your time to learn and if you run into a big bump in the road, just ask questions. Ask on here. ICQ some of us... in example, my # is in my signature - hit me up. I've gotten questions out of the blue before and gladly took the time to answer them, and in some cases, got new guild members out of it. I imagine any member of this community will likely do the same. Don't be shy, the answers and help are there if you're willing to look.
     
    #29 Merlin, Sep 23, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2015
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  30. Lord GOD(GOD)

    Lord GOD(GOD) Lore Master

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    There are no new players.

    The OP isn't a new player.

    The entire thread can be paraphrased as "Why don't I have/know as much as people who play more than I do?"

    Also, why do people always assume new players have the mental age of three year olds, if someone was picking up this game they'd have a reason for it, (sure as hell isn't going to be for it's cutting edge graphics or technology now is it) that reason is likely to be that they know something about it already, and there is a ton of information about every aspect of this game on a dozen different websites that they can look up.

    Also, why do new players need the latest gear and a billion gold? They don't, they never have. If they took the time to play the game rather than fast tracking themselves with hand outs they would know what, where and how to hunt.

    Oh and I'm a returning player, finding no difficulty whatsoever in the game since returning, sure there's new things, sure there's things I don't know about, but I don't need them to play the game and nor does anyone else. I'll find them out through playing the game, talking to people and looking stuff up. It isn't difficult.
     
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  31. Lady CaT

    Lady CaT Seasoned Veteran
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    Yeah I don't remember having extensive access to people suggestions, forums, and information when Ultima Online started in 1997. The fact is we didn't. We were all new and had to build our knowledge thru trial and error. Over time people began to get together and pool their knowledge thru trial and error. People built great websites like the one you are currently reading. Many many players died over and over and over again in game exploring and discovering new tactics, new dungeons and puzzle solutions. I guess that's the difference between players then and now. We enjoyed the exploring and discovery. Now in 2015, if the information isn't simply available, new players just say its too hard and quit with the mantra 'I can't compete'. The short answer is no you really can't. You can't expect to come into a new game and be competitive in a few weeks that has taken many many 1000's of players almost two decades of documenting, testing, and learning. The beauty of the game is that its a world for you to explore and get to know as you make your own way in it. I suggest being less concerned about what others have and focus more on the fun of exploring a new world and living in it.
     
  32. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Honestly, I think there are a lot of vets that don't understand some of the new additions (the "you need a math degree to play lolol" crowd) and assume that since they don't get it new players would have no chance.
     
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  33. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    I will never understand the "I can't compte" complaint/concern. If you aren't pvping you really aren't competing with anyone.
     
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  34. Lord GOD(GOD)

    Lord GOD(GOD) Lore Master

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    I'm still confused by the supposed gold sinks. I can't think of anything in game that really is. I forget what they're called but those things like the Brit Library/Vesper Museum were about the only ones, and that gear is easily surpassed elsewhere. Some of the new hunting spots are really convenient and easy too, like Blackthorns, Rotting Corpses, Balrons, Greater Dragons all in Britain. Then there's Mondain's Legacy stuff, like Swoop and Miasma that still drop 2k+ and aren't complicated to kill with a bit of practice/preparation. Skeletal Dragons and Bone Demons (note everything I've mentioned is Slayer vulnerable) I think also drop 4k+.

    For me personally I think the absolute best bang for buck is Fel Champ Spawns. Before anyone moans about being raided and needing l33t gear, you can spawn in the virtue suit. You can spawn on a Stealth/Thrower, or for maximum speed a Swords/Throwing sampire. For that potential risk your rewards are skill/fame/karma gains from increasing difficulty spawn, SOT's to use or sell, Powerscrolls, Replicas, and 250k+ gold. Spawns have been in the game for years and years and years without much change other than the addition of rewards, so they're well documented.
     
  35. Conleth

    Conleth Journeyman

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    I think that insurance was, at the time, specifically introduced to be a gold sink. I'd have to find the articles to be 100 percent on that, but I've memory of reading devs posts about it. Seems to be working, or at least would in theory (for new players especially I imagine).

    I know that there was some debate over 'blessed' items being overpowered (weapons blessed by an Item Bless Deed from clean-up at the time), hugely debated with regard to PvP.

    I want to say that game 'imbalance' and huge amounts of hoarded gold were in no small way part of the reason insurance was introduced as a gold sink. (Though not on SP or Mugen, preTram ruleset.)

    Cheers
     
  36. Conleth

    Conleth Journeyman

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    I agree. My bottom line concern for new (and possibly returning) players who struggle to simply stay ingame at all. I'm not talking uber gear, or housing, and such; just very simple, basic game playability, nothing less, nothing more.

    Used to start out with (practice weapon) items which whilst doing minimal damage, would stay with you, and your basic armor that even though unmarked, were 'newbiefied' and stayed with you upon death. These days you must insure, even those sticking to 'safe' Trammel. With critters looting, it's different now. Some would say more difficult, and I tend to agree.

    Cheers
     
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  37. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    I mean what can you do? Perma-bless everything? Playing it safe can be taken too far. I know I'm not new, but I really don't think its such a huge issue. *shrugs*
     
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  38. Lord GOD(GOD)

    Lord GOD(GOD) Lore Master

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    Ah yes, insurance is that's true, though it's a bit of a rubbish one for several obvious reasons.
     
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  39. Lord GOD(GOD)

    Lord GOD(GOD) Lore Master

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    How do you define basic game playability. In terms of really low level (new player) game play, they have nothing to insure anyway, they probably start in New Haven, which is full of low end things to gain from if they're a dexxer as well as all the accelerated gains quests, if they're Mages the regs aren't going to last long enough to do anything useful with but there's a lot of guilds that hang out in New Haven and give LRC suits out (as they can essentially be made/Imbued for next to nothing). That alone makes it easier than when I started which involved running back and forth from Brit bank to Despise, looting barrels and selling scrolls, occasionally fighting a Lizardman.

    You have to start at the bottom and progress.

    There's an old PvP saying "a noob in a 100m suit, is still a noob". It would make no sense to be new and to be able to take part in everything as you'd have nothing to improve or aim for.
     
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  40. Conleth

    Conleth Journeyman

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    Good point. Starting in Haven does change things (compared to when I started at least)! I can't speak with authority on specifically new player experiences (I hope there are, or at least will be new players, for all our sakes. Steam comes to mind).

    A fine balance, making the game playable and challenging, but not so much that folks don't come back.

    Cheers

    edited to remove a stupid question. :p
     
  41. BrianFreud

    BrianFreud Lead Wiki Mod & Doer of Crazy Things
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    @Conleth You mentioned that you play on Oceania. I'm pretty sure that Don Juan there does public hunts, gear up new/returning players, etc. You might want to look for him. Don't worry about population - Oceania has a solid core of players, and imho, is in better shape than some other shards. EM ShanyraFyre holds meetings every so often. If you're not meeting those players otherwise, then try to go to one of those meetings. Your shard also has an unofficial site at http://oceaniashard.com/ , one of the more active Facebook pages at https://www.facebook.com/UOOceaniaEM , plus an EM page (which seems to be a bit broken at the moment) http://oceania.uoem.net/ .
     
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