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Gold in Ultima Online : why is it so much wanted ?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by popps, Sep 6, 2010.

  1. popps

    popps Always Present
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    It is only my impression or is it that gold in this game is too much seeked by players, on average ?

    If so, why is it that players feel the need to try get as much gold as they can ?

    Why would a player feel the need to have, say, 100 million UO gold rather than, say, 1 million gold ?

    Or, why would a player feel that 300 millions are not enough to play the game "in a satisfactory and enjoyable" way ?

    I mean, why would "cheque books" be needed if not to reduce the item count of many, many and many 1 million cheques ?

    Bottom line is, I am asking, why is gold felt so much a need in this game ?

    And, regardless what players may or not feel, the most important question is, is gold so much important to be able to play Ultima Online in a satisfactory and enjoyable way ?
     
  2. Babble

    Babble Guest

    We use gold and money for bartering and also as epeen..
    nanah I got more gold than you :p
     
  3. Gidge

    Gidge Sage
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    Seriously????

    To um buy stuff? At it's smallest denominator, from vendors? If i never interacted with another player; the need for gold would still be there.
    Smaller scale, but there. i can not find some of the items needed to(fully)play this game on monsters.
     
  4. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Hmmm, to buy stuff ?

    That's a motivation that makes sense but it brings us to a next question which is, why would players need always more gold to buy stuff in order to satisfy their feeling that they are fully enjoying the game ?

    And how can a measure of quantity be used as a meter for quality ? I do not understand that.........
     
  5. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    Why is money wanted so badly in the real world?

    There ya go.

    (Why is gold wanted so badly in the real world?)
     
  6. hen

    hen Certifiable
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    Players use gold to pay for items and property in Ultima Online.
     
  7. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    It's not like there's a ridiculous number of items that people want to buy or anything. No, gold couldn't be used for that.
     
  8. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Well, but this is a game not the real world and what works in the real world not necessarily is the same for a game....

    Besides, I am not sure either how good is materialism for the real world......

    Materialism implies consumption which implies production which implies pollution and waste and so on.

    Perhaps sustainable development may be something preferrable, sometimes ?
     
  9. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Hmmm, why would players then want to buy items in the game or feel that they need those items to better and more fully enjoy the game, I wonder ?
     
  10. Pfloyd

    Pfloyd Colorblind Collector
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    The answer: It's not. NOBODY has a tiny house, Bank box, boat holds, pack animals filled with maxxed out gold checks for storage NEVER wanting to use it for anything else except to store it and keep it as it's more important to them than ANYTHING else in the game. That is all in your head just like other answers you just can't grasp.
     
  11. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    The point is that gold in UO serves the same purpose as money in real life as a medium of exchange... and in some people's minds, a way to "keep score".
     
  12. Gidge

    Gidge Sage
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    Materialism implies consumption - We consume a lot in UO.

    which implies production - We produce a lot in UO.

    which implies pollution - We have polluted the countryside with eyesores galore.

    and waste and so on. - have you never seen someone toss something on the bank ground? or.. *need's more salt*
     
  13. popps

    popps Always Present
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    My question was not meant in the sense of seeking gold only for the sake of storing it to watch it, my question was intended to why gold is seeked in large quantities in this game, regardless whether one will just store and watch at it or use it to purchase anything.....
     
  14. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    I've got a link to a passage that would fit well in this thread (at the probable risk of pushing this thread further towards a lock).

    Pretty much sums it all up.
     
  15. Gidge

    Gidge Sage
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    why would players need always more gold to buy stuff


    because plant bowls don't drop on corpses!!! THERE!

    why would players need always more gold to buy stuff in order to satisfy their feeling that they are fully enjoying the game ?

    It's called tiers. A step up. One things leads to another. Why in the heck do you buy a new car? Why do you paint your home? Why do you bother to cut your hair?

    I think i can answer every question you will ever try to figure out about UO simply by saying.


    WE ARE HUMAN.

    There. You prove the point by simply not being outside playing jump rope with the neighborhood kids. You are here because your desire for something bigger and better to entertain your senses. A jump rope no longer satisfies you, but a computer game does.

    WHICH for you apparently means spurring angst. I get you, now stop it or go jump rope for goodness sake!
     
  16. Pfloyd

    Pfloyd Colorblind Collector
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    Again...its something you will never grasp if you are asking the question that everyone already has answered for you here. If you can't grasp this basic a concept forget asking why people would pay 20M+ for a crimson/orny/tangle and not pay more for non spawning items like a snowman.
     
  17. Gidge

    Gidge Sage
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    He should read the whole book. It is great, and would open his eyes, but i fear...
     
  18. popps

    popps Always Present
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    So, it is not the journey that matters but the goal(s) reached ?

    And where does the stepping up ends, never ?
    It is always a race after something and the next thing after that ?

    I do not know others, but personally, that hardly looks to me as a receipe for enjoyment, I rather see it as one for frustration and, that I knew of, it was my understanding that Ultima Online was a game meant for enjoyment........


    Maybe the journey rather than set goals would be worth some thinking, who knows....

    But that is only as I see it.
     
  19. Kimball

    Kimball Guest

    I can actually understand why the question would be asked, but the answer is the same reason this game is unique. There are many play styles in this game, and there will always be people (perhaps the majority) that always want more. They need the next best thing to continue to be satisfied. There are also people who don't need a lot of gold. People who don't max out their storage with items that will never be used. Some find the game enjoyable while having the bare minimum of gold/items while others enjoy the game while always looking for the latest and greatest item. It really comes down to what is most enjoyable to the person at the other side of the keyboard.
     
  20. Green Mouser

    Green Mouser Guest

    Perfect Popps. Do what you say for once and get rid of your computer. Your materialism will be gone (at least in this aspect). Materialism is a way of life there is no way to away from it except in a coma. But please Popps show us the way and sell off your computer and swear off Materialism. I wish you had been at the UO meet so I could see the insane mentality behind these posts
     
  21. popps

    popps Always Present
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    I can understand that, but this crosses out, necessarily as I see it, all the talking about a PvP shard with same ruleset which involved players vs players action.....

    I do not think it as possible to have players playing the game in 2 different ways and than have such a game be item based and also have a shard where players playing in 2 different ways are put one to face the other for players vs players action......

    I just do not see this as possible.

    Now, "if" such a game was no longer so heavily item based (but rather, more skill based...) well, then things would be different and even players playing the game on 2 different speeds could enjoy sharing the same one PvP ruleset shard.........
     
  22. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    Playing UO is setting a goal. Umm I think I will log in to UO and have some fun. Did you have fun? Yes, I will play again. No, why do I even play UO.

    The day you stop setting goals is the day you need to quit UO.
    The day you stop setting goals in life is the day you die.
    No goals, no use going on.
    Set your own goals and play your game and stop worrying so much about other players goals. Now go play UO and have fun or quit.
     
  23. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Well, sustainable does not necessarily means none (though there might be times when it could happen), it just means a compromise.

    For example, if I do not own a car (which I do not have...), which to my thinking is a worse polluter and environment waster than a computer, and when I do my shopping I bring along my own tissue bags rather than get plastic ones, perhaps that leaves me the option of having a computer ?

    What I am trying to say, is that perhaps "balance" can be a better thing than flat out conveniency.

    But that's merely as I see it.
     
  24. Kimball

    Kimball Guest

    I guess that kind of answers your question. Gold in so wanted in the game because it is an item based game, and players who choose to play in PVP or high-end PVM would almost require these items to complete the "perfect suit" to compete......however, I find the game to still be enjoyable, and I certainly don't have millions of dollars to throw around. I still enjoy moving around through Fel with common suits just to run around and have fun. I have a crafter that will go out every now and again to gather resources (mostly in Fel). I have worked...made some money...crafted a little to make suits for my characters, yet I don't have this overwhelming desire to make millions upon millions to get that extra 1 or 2 MR or whatever. I choose to make some gold via normal game play.

    I understand the difficulty in playing certain parts of the game because of the reliance of items, but I guess that is why I don't go full force into those areas, but I still have fun. Besides, if I wanted to run out there with the best items I could just log into Test Center and role with whatever skills and items I wanted...doesn't sound like fun to me though.
     
  25. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    Because better items = better ability to play the game? Have you been drinking today? Or do you just not actually play UO at all?
     
  26. Siteswap

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    You know popps, ive said it before and i'll say it again ... im sure you just lie awake at night thinking this stuff up. Its gotten to the point that when I see a new post by you I smile, open it up and prepare to be entertained.

    Keep up the good work.
     
  27. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Well, that is why I stressed my point on the ability to "fully" enjoy the game....

    I am aware that it is possible to "have fun" in UO even with funds limited, but what about "fully" enjoy the game ??

    That is what I am trying to question.........
     
  28. cdavbar

    cdavbar Lore Master
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    Every person plays this game differently that is what makes it so great, i find this a thread meant to bash the rich and even more bash the ones that are trying to fulfull their goals on this game.

    I am not "rich" my banks hold enough to get me by with insurance and supplies. But i am an item collector, i love having rares, uniques, sets etc. Does having a rare item influence how i beat a creature? No. But having that item "fulfills" part of what makes me play this game.

    Some just like having money for bragging rights, if that is what makes them happy who cares let them be happy.

    Some need the gold to buy resources to make items that they need or want to conquer certian creatures more effiecintly. That is no means a reason to bash them for wanting gold either, maybe they love crafting, and fighting, but hate the tedious aspects of resource harvesting and would rather stockpile gold to fund the need to purchase said resources.

    Either way you look at it GOLD IS NEEDED FOR EVERYTHING IN THIS GAME unless you like to log in and sit at luna bank and chat all day instead of doing anything else. 1 million gold doesnt cut it anymore, that is called inflation, it happens in all economies. It takes many millions to buy elite items, and rare resources/items etc. Same for real life, you used to be able to by a car for 500 dollars now it takes 20k dollars, thus the need for more money.

    I hope ive made my point. THere is an Off Topic forum made for threads like this. Thank You.
     
  29. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Well, I can think of some other option......perhaps go out, play the game and train up skills and then enjoy playing the game ?

    That is, I am talking about a SKILL based game rather than an ITEM based game........

    Gold would be much, but MUCH less a necessity in a skill based game than what it is in an item based game, as I see it.......

    So, it "could be" that gold in Ultima Online was less a necessity "if" the game was changed to shift towards skills having more importance than what they have now.

    And this, I think, would help new and returning players who would feel less left out than what they might be now when they see how much gold they need to seek, in order to be competitive and fully enjoy the game.

    It would also make the game more balanceable and less subject to the never ending cycle of introducing stronger items, then make MoBs tougher to catch up with the stronger items and then introduce more stronger items and so forth in an endless cycle that always goes up and up and up with new comers to the game always finding it harder and harder to get "in game" because the more time goes by, the more items and monsters have gone up and cost more gold to afford.......

    That is how I see it.
     
  30. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    Popps how about you worry about how you play the game and let other people worry about how they play the game themselves. As long as they're not exploiting, harassing, or otherwise directly impeding your ability to play the game, why worry about why someone else might desire the accumulation of ingame currency?

    The biggesr question is NOT why gold is desired, but why does Popps care what other people do with gold ingame?
     
  31. Gidge

    Gidge Sage
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    Thank you but there are plenty of games out there for leveling.

    As i have said before, don't know which post. Stop trying to take away the experiences we have had and new players would enjoy. To you it is always about dumbing things down or making things easier for new people and by proxy for YOU.

    Quit trying to take away what makes UO, UO and be a helpful person instead of trying to make conduits and channels for people to walk.

    Well if we make this easier, or that easier, more will come. Yeah and they will come and go, there is a reason why we stay and quit trying to change it!

    We are here to support those new people with the knowledge that we have. Not create a new game or change what got us here to appease anyone. It worked for us and made us the strong UO players that we are. Let the new people have that too.
     
  32. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Perhaps because I would like to enjoy playing an Ultima Online game filled with many more players than I currently see and I feel that the current need for gold may be a deterrant (together with other factors, perhaps, but nonetheless...) for new or returning players to choose to stick with the game ?

    Or perhaps because I would like more players play PvP in UO and I have a feeling that the current costs for competitive PvP might reduce the number of players who can effectively be competitive (and thus willing to experience it...) ?

    There is a number of arguments which I can think of that make me desire an Ultima Online game where gold was less of an issue for players so as to be able to fully enjoy the game at less prohibitive costs...
     
  33. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    Out of all the issues that plague UO in terms of getting new players (or former players back), I think that gold is probably relatively low on the scale in comparison to many other issues.

    The balance of the economy is something the devs need to work on absolutely (finding and removing duped gold, setting up more functional and desireable gold sinks, revamping loot tables to slow the faucet (gold influx), etc).

    But that in no way equates to some indictment against players who decide to accumulate wealth as part of their UO experience.

    In short, you're pointing fingers in the wrong direction here.
     
  34. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Too bad we cannot see the actual statistics....

    I would love to see how many new accounts are started each year (or re-subscribed...) and of these, what is the average life of these new or re-subscribed accounts...

    My feeling (just based on my feelings as a player of the game on whatever shard I spend my gaming time on, not on data which I do not know, of course....), is that of the new or returning players not many actually stay a considerable amount of time after "trying the game out".......

    And, if that was the case, then there got to be an explaination for that.

    Some might blame it on the graphics, some on the content, I blame it on the catching up necessary for new or returning players to be competitive.

    That is, the "gold" issue, IMHO..................

    Who is more right in the thinking ? Who knows....

    Without hard data and knowledge of any feedback from those new or resubscribing players who close accounts shortly after trying the game out (if even there is any such information out there...), it is hard to answer this question beyond a simple gut feeling.
     
  35. Luvmylace

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    this is a fruitless thread .It's a game with choices
     
  36. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Are we really discussing why people want gold?
     
  37. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    It is a game, with a myriad choices. Each individual has the chance to play it their own way. You cannot define how to 'fully enjoy' it because each persons definition of the term will be different.
    Personally, I don't play to amass gold. I have enough for the things I want to achieve in the game. I have no interest in what other people's goals are.
    Please stop trying to analyse every aspect of it and just PLAY the darn game. Do the things in it that you enjoy doing and don't spend so much time dreaming up questions to promote debates on the boards.
    It is not a debating society and the boards do well enough without anyone needing to invent topics to discuss.
     
  38. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    My head is hurting again Popps. People don't PVP because they don't want to. I don't want to I don't care if it's the best pvp ever I just don't want to. Nor does so many players that play. Sure we venture out for a day of PVP here and there if there is a reason. But to PVP for no reason other than to say I owened you is a waste of time in my eyes. If it wasn't for champ spawns in FEl I wouldn't even bother. Sparing is fun with friends as it's a friendly competition but thats it.

    Now gold is a goal. A major goal that allows to accomplish other goals. Hell it can even pay for your subscripton which is the best use for it. Also it's currency to pay others that have more time or specialiise in certain things to get something you need.

    Why fight monsters if there is nothing to gain? 1st time run into it by mistake, 2nd time come back for revenge, 3rd time figure out it's weakness,4th time defeat it, 5th time deafeat it faster, 6th time defeat it alone, 7th time deafeat it again, 8th time getting boring,9th time bored,10th time extremly bored, 11th time time to move on, 1 th time figure this is the strongest it gets, 13th time shut Uo down as it's become too much to tolerate. This happens usually within 1 week to 1 month. Now how can you keep a player wanting to kill monsters over and over again. You have to offer rewards which allow them to want to fight them over and over again. It used to be gold then resources then random items now it's just imbuing ingredients.
    Sadly imbuing is a end to itself which makes alot more players quit cause they reach the end game with it without appreciating the journey. Not to mention all other systems are obsolete So they end up moving on to other games.
     
  39. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    So what is it you want. Go back to a skill based game? NPCs selling everything in UO at a set rate? Guess if everybody owned everything in UO than it would be a skill based game again.

    IMHO It seams like you are green with envy of any player that owns/has more of anything in UO than you do. It doesn’t matter if its gold/items/pets if it’s better than yours you whine about it. This is not a tree hugging/socialist game, it is UO. You make of it what you want and play the game.
     
  40. weins201

    weins201 Certifiable
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    Like all the other moths drawn to your posts?

    Popps some (most of your posts) are unique in the very own special way but like MANY others I am always drawn to read them and of course get singed to a crisp.

    Seriously there are ALWAYS MANY posts telling oyu how simple things are but you continue to ask why, why, why.

    Can I ask WHY?

    Most of your questions are answred in the first reply or two but they last FOREVER.

    Again the moth to the flame i read to the end, so I am not asking you to stop asking questions, just be a little more mature about them. WHne they are answered please let it rest.

    As for why we want gold = want of items. Gold is a means to get them!!!!!:gee:
     
  41. Demonous

    Demonous Rares Fest Host | Ches Jul 2010
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    rare collectors require hundreds of millions or a few billion to compete in the competitive rare collecting market
     
  42. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Re: Like all the other moths drawn to your posts?



    Bingo !

    And that is what the problem is, as I see it..........

    Which one ? The feeling for players, perhaps not all but a good number of them, that in order to fully enjoy the game they "need" items and the more gold they have, the better items they can obtain so as to more fully enjoy playing the game.

    And why I think this is a problem ?

    Because if the gap is reasonable it would not be a problem but when the gap gets too wide well, it may deter players from even wanting to "try" to cover it....

    I am not sure how much time can the average player spend into a game like Ultima Online but, considering how much time demanding life can be, from school to work to social relations to family and so forth, I would imagine not much.

    Now, if what makes the difference as far as competition goes is gold, and the more gold one has the more they can compete, well, then how cannot gold (or the need for it...) not deter some players from actually wanting to play the game ?

    So, and this is my thinking, something that "in theory" might be thought as keeping players in the game (gold, that is...), might instead keep players well away from the game.

    So, the key question is whether gold (or the need for it...) actually helps Ultima Online in having players or hurts Ultima Online in having players.

    Now, which is which ?

    It all depends, IMHO, on "why" players want gold so much and feel they need it to fully enjoy the game, I guess..........
     
  43. who doesn't want to be rich? :lol:

    generally, the more gold that's in reserve, the more risks a character can take and recover from loss. that was the mantra since the beginning.

    though nowadays, it's the more gold you have, the more options that are open to build your character and property. including more exotic item choices, more rares, more power, etc. why build such wealth? why not? the wealthy can always do more, for less.
     
  44. Babble

    Babble Guest

    If i play UO I roleplay and for that I need no gold no arties.Most I had was 20 million or so and that I spent on a singing ball. Got the 20 million from an artefact drop in doom and never returned there ( I won the lottery no reason to go there more).

    And you put too much emphasis on gold. :p
     
  45. LetheGL

    LetheGL Seasoned Veteran
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    We are playing a thirteen year old computer game that, aside from word of mouth, isn't advertised. Without exposure UO (or any product for that matter) cannot generate a new customer base.

    Gold and items are not a limiting factor in PVP any longer. Never has PVP been more accessible. With the introduction of faction artifacts and imbuing, players are create amazing suits with minimal amounts of gold and time. My mage suit that I spent MANY months and 100mil+ creating can be put together in one evening of hunting and crafting now.

    To say gold and items are the reason for a dwindling player base and a lack of new people wanting to PVP is just silly.
     
  46. Gold is used to buy stuff. It is the currency of the game. The more you have the more you can buy depending on your needs.

    While you may only need 5 million for armour, you might need 10 millions for resources. Or maybe you like collecting rares or event items that might cost 100 million.

    Gold is also a form of barter. Rather then spent 50 hours trying to get 120 magery scroll, I will pay 15 million for it. I will make 15 million in a different way and have fun.

    Gold is also a convienent (spelling) way to store things. For instance, I dont want all the crap I collect. So i sell it. 1 million gold is better then holding 35 items.

    Yes you need gold to play. Try playing without it. No you dont need alot to suit up and fight monsters.
     
  47. Re: Like all the other moths drawn to your posts?


    Popps what are your talking about?

    You need gold to buy things. PERIOD. Your talking about what people choose to buy. And your judging what they buy and how they play.

    You need gold to play. How much is up to you.

    I play UO pefectily fine with about 5 million invested for battling monsters.

    When I dont do that I vend items.

    When I dont do that I spend gold on building charactures.

    When I dont do that I build a mechant shop.

    When I dont do that I do the new events with my standard old mage or warrior.

    When I dont do that I buy expansions and have some fun.

    When I get bored I build a characture on a new shard.



    What do the above have to do with gold. Nada.
     
  48. cdavbar

    cdavbar Lore Master
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    Why is this thread still open again?
     
  49. popps

    popps Always Present
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

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    In PvP, even marginal extra mods can make the difference in an heavily item based game as UO has become and some items, take Tangle for example or Slither, come with a menu that imbuing cannot help much with....

    And they run a hefty price tag....

    Sure, faction artifacts and imbuing have lowered the need for gold to be competitive in PvP but they have not gotten rid of it.

    Gold can still make the difference in PvP......
     
  50. Doubleplay

    Doubleplay Lore Keeper
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    To the OP.... can I have your gold? I would really enjoy the journey to your place to pick it up.