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Gold Sink Idea: Let Gold be used to pay for Account time?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Norrar, Jan 24, 2010.

  1. Norrar

    Norrar Lore Master
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    Anyone else have thoughts on this?

    Letting us use gold to pay for our accounts would get rid of a good amount of gold imho.


    Dont know how much gold per month... But I like the idea. And not just because It came to me. :p Id be more than happy to pay 30 mil for a month of time.
     
  2. popps

    popps Always Present
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    If they ever impemented this I would imagine the game would close down right the following month for lack of actual money coming in.........

    No thanks.
     
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  3. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Why on earth why would they implement this? Its just like giving away the game for free. Gold inflation isn't even a big issue. It's just an inconvenience.
     
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  4. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    How about smelting gold coins down to Gold Bars (not ingots) and allowing Gold Bars to be used to gold plate statues as well as make a new set of statuary (solid gold). Use Carpentry skill as in Stoneworking, but with a new book for Metallurgy.

    Specific new statues would require a scroll to learn for each. Scrolls could be found as random loot, rare and more rare depending on the statue.

    Allow these gilded and golden items to be smelted back down to gold bars, and gold bars to be made into gold coins again, but at a loss of material.

    This would do several things.
    1) It would take coins out of circulation while used as bars and golden statues
    2) Would maintain the values to the owners, making some extremely valuable
    3) Would allow owners of said statues to recoup the gold coins but at a reduced value (just a little, maybe 2% ?)
    4) Add to trade in both items and game play
    5) Reward extremely rich players with something to show off for all their gold.
     
  5. GarthGrey

    GarthGrey Crazed Zealot
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    All I see it doing is #5.
     
  6. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    It'd just be like selling an item they bought at roughly the same price. But it would take coins out of circulation, and players may be reluctant to let go of a really cool thing to show off. Especially if these things are rare due to scroll rareness.

    Reduced circulation changes things.
     
  7. Ok, so you actually think it would be a good thing that EA/Mythic would never see another dime from me and thousands of other players?

    Can I have some of what you're smoking?
     
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  8. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Haha, well, that would be a good gold sink, but I don't think EA could use that gold to pay their staff :p
     
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  9. Sneaky Que

    Sneaky Que Babbling Loonie
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    You can already do this, just not with EA...

    Last time I did it was right on 30m for a 30 day code too.
     
  10. sablestorm

    sablestorm Certifiable
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    I think the danger with this is encouraging duping of gold to pay for the game for free. You'd have less revenue coming in to UO and an added temptation for cheaters.
     
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  11. Norrar

    Norrar Lore Master
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    *laughs softly*

    No im not smoking anything. And that really has nothing to do with this thread. *grin*

    No, all I wanted was to see what others thought. Ideas are always needed are they not?
     
  12. LordDrago

    LordDrago Certifiable
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    I fear this would not be a gold sink, but it would sink uo.
     
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  13. shanshu

    shanshu Seasoned Veteran
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    Well thought out ideas, yes, but this is silly. No $ from players = no revenue.
     
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  14. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Better to just buy the time from the brokers in gold while the brokers give cash to EA for it. Win-Win
     
  15. Laina

    Laina Sage
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    Would have to say no too...the last thing we need is for UO to bring in less money in an already bad economy where EA has been laying off staff to keep running at a profit.
     
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  16. Pawain

    Pawain Crazed Zealot
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    I like the idea of gold bars and making statues. But once they are made, thats it.
     
  17. Fat Midnight

    Fat Midnight Visitor

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    I love this idea, then I can make my golden calf that I may worship everyday. Then the gods OSI can come and bring a great plague against the people of sosaria
     
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  18. DVI

    DVI Guest

    I dont know I would want to deal w it but it I think adding a tax bracket system to the game would be more effective. The more gold you have for instance the more you pay in taxes say each month. There could be some inherent problems of course but it would remove gold, wouldnt favor the rich if set up correctly and might even prompt some people to open new accts to spread their gold out. they would have to make changes to the free trial though to prevent abuse.
     
  19. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Won't work.I would instantly convert everything to items
     
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  20. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    Whoever sold you the items would have the gold and would get taxed. The gold would still leave the game.

    It would need to be a scaled tax system to drain the gold from some players. The people who can load a Luna vendor with fifty or sixty items with multi-million gold prices pay more gold in vendor fees than I even have. <laugh>
     
  21. popps

    popps Always Present
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    This is why I always opposed the sale of in game items for real money.

    I am convinced that Ultima Online would have been a much better game if these sales had been opposed and stopped from being possible to happen from the beginning.
     
  22. Theo_GL

    Theo_GL Grand Poobah
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    The WORST business idea ever. Seriously. Ever.

    Unless of course our dev team can take UO gold to the supermarket and buy a gallon of milk.

    Why in the world would a company substitute virtual gold for paying revenue?

    Now the other way - EA selling gold for $$ makes alot of sense.
     
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  23. popps

    popps Always Present
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    That's actually something I always wondered.
    Sometimes I see vendors loaded with hundreds of millions (price tags...) of items up for sale.

    Now, from http://uo.stratics.com/php-bin/show_content.php?content=30972


    Let's say a vendor has 150 million gold worth of items selling. Roughly, divided by 500 that's 300,000 gp per UO day. Since there is 12 UO days in a real day, the vendor charge will be about 3.6 millions PER DAY.

    If the stock remains unsold for, say, 10 days, it is some 36 millions gone........

    Yet, I see tons of vendors with lots of highly priced items sitting there for long.

    Is there a bug perhaps and vendors are not charging their fees ?

    Because if they were, a whole lot of gold would be going out of UO, daily......

    Something here is not clear to me.
     
  24. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    Eve Online has a system where you can securely trade your gold for a gametime card someone else has bought. In essence, you could pay for gametime with gold and the other player could purchase gold for cash. It is a win-win-win situation. You get gametime, someone else gets gold and the game company has a subscription payment.

    This is how many UO players used to function as well. But with the economy in such poor shape, it costs something like 30 million gold for one month of game time. And you can't even get the game time easily anymore. And it has never been a secure process.
     
  25. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    In that case multiple checks in hundreads of boats, House lock downs,packies on unused characters,etc.
     
  26. popps

    popps Always Present
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    The breakdown comes down to roughly 30 cents per million.....

    Assuming that 30 millions gold would cover 1 month at, say, 10 bucks, that means 10 bucks = 30 mils. Or, 1 buck = 3 mils gold.

    That is, averaging gold at about 33 cents per million.....
     
  27. Mistura

    Mistura Lore Keeper
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    Vendor fees are charged once per real life day.
     
  28. popps

    popps Always Present
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    The Stratics link says "The basic vendor fees are 20 to 24 gold per UO day" as well as "each additional 500 gold worth is charged 1 gold per UO day" and there is 12 UO days in 1 real day.....
     
  29. As the man said, vendor fees are charged once per real life day. Do you always believe everything you read?

    If so, then it's been said that jumping off of bridges is good for the heart.
     
  30. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    There are probably several holes in this idea, but I think the simplest gold sink would be to make the library and museum items available only for cash, stop the item donation, keep the gold price as it is.
     
  31. Beer_Cayse

    Beer_Cayse Guest

    EA is a RL company that works on the principle of profits driving advancement (or somesuch). How does this allow EA to achieve profitibility in order to pay wages, bills, etc?

    Try again please.
     
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  32. aarons6

    aarons6 Certifiable
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    i still think the only way to fix uo economy is to stop monsters completly from dropping gold.. they would only just drop items.

    the only way to get gold would be to sell these items to either players, or to npcs.. for a set price.. that never changes..
    the nps system would need to be overhauled to pay a "fair" amount for items.
    items sold to npcs would remain on the npc at a marked up "sale" price..
    this would mean, if i went to doom and got an orny, i could sell it to a npc at the bank for say, 3m..

    this orny would then be for sale in the npc vendor for say 6m for anyone to buy it.

    this would make the only gold entering the world would be for the trade of items and the sale of those items would be a gold sink.

    this system would work because there would be a period of time where supply and demand would set in, people would need gold, and items.. the npcs would be used.

    the npc system doesnt have to be connected so say if you sold that orny to the trinsic banker people would have to go shopping around looking for it.

    plus there would still be a window to sell to players..
     
  33. EA would probably be better off as the broker in the deal:
    Player A has 30 million gold and wants to sell it for 1 month's game time.
    Player B needs 30 million gold and is willing to pay $15 real money for it.
    At this point, both players hit a button which takes them to a secure page on EA's UO website, and for a fee of $1.99 real-life money, an automatic system will broker the deal. The players have to work it out between themselves as to who pays the fees; the options would be something like "buyer pays, seller pays, both parties split the fee".

    The same system could broker cross-shard trades, too. Player A lives on Napa and wants to buy an item bless deed from Player B who lives on Pacific, for 100 million gold. They go to the secure webpage and EA brokers the deal for $1.99. When both players have hit the "accept" button, one receives the item, the other receives the gold, and EA puts a charge on one or both of their credit cards for its broker fee.
    It works as both a way to improve gameplay and a profit center which doesn't create inflation problems.

    The way that the vendors work is that the charge is 1 UO gold per 500 value per UO day, 24 gold per 1,000 in value per real-world day. It used to be charged every UO day, but that caused vendors to poof before the owners could put gold on them, so it was changed to once per real-world day. The amount charged is still 24 gold per 1,000, though.

    My most expensive vendors cost something in the range of 300k per day, each, plus Luna rental fees of 1 million per week. That's maybe 3 million per week total. If my items didn't sell fast, the vendors would poof. The only way you can have 50 to 100 million in goods on a vendor, while paying both the vendor and rental fees, is if you're selling at least 10 to 20 million per week.

    There are several ways to get rid of some of the excess gold in the game. But being able to sell artifacts to vendors would just make the problem worse. Now, buying artifacts, item bless deeds, and a lot of other rare items from exotic items vendors wouldn't be a bad idea. I do like the idea of cutting down the amount of gold that all of the ML monsters give. Any creature that dies within 8 seconds and gives nearly 3k in gold, plus about 20 relic-fragment quality items per hour (Miasma and Swoop), is just ridiculous if you don't want an inflationary death spiral. Making the item drops a lot fewer wouldn't be bad either. There is no need for a level 6 treasure chest or dark father to have dozens of pieces of pure crap in it; you shouldn't have to pick through 10,000 pieces of junk to find that one piece with an imbue value of 350 or more. If its imbue value is 110, it should never spawn at all on anything tougher than an ogre.

    A really good spring cleaning effort, followed by an event in which the desperate refugees from Magincia are selling their "family heirlooms", ie a new group of artifacts that are really cool looking and useful but not really overpowered, for massive amounts of gold, then a patch which cuts all of the loot to the following rates:
    The lowest-level, 1st tier monsters like ogres and trolls drop less than 50 gold and have a 1 in 20 chance of dropping an item with an imbue value of 150 or less
    2nd tier monsters like liches, trogs, etc. drop no more than 100 gold and have a 1 in 20 chance of dropping an item with an imbue value of 125 to 200
    3rd tiers like Lich Lords, Ogre Lords, Greater Dragons drop no more than 250 gold and have a 1 in 20 chance of dropping an item with an imbue value of 200-300
    4th tiers like Miasma, Swoop, Lurg, Ancient Wyrms, etc. drop no more than 350 gold and have a 1 in 20 chance of dropping an item with an imbue value of 300-400
    A few high-level 4th tiers like Rend would drop no more than 450 gold and have a 1 in 20 chance of dropping an item with an imbue value of 350-450
    5th tiers like the Dark Father drop up to 500 gold and 1 to 3 items with an imbue value of 400-500 or an artifact. All of the top 10 damagers would get a chance at the item.

    Before AOS, you could pretty much depend on low-level creatures never having anything good, and high-level ones never dropping anything truly bad. You didn't get inundated with massive piles of garbage. Now, people often just leave relic fragment worthy items on miasmas because they can't bring themselves to wade through the thousands of pieces of junk to get that one good item.

    AOS should have been named the Age of Massive Amounts of Worthless Junk. Sloppy programming that merged too much of the monster loot tables and too much reliance on the great god Random Number Generator brought UO to the point it's at now. A little work to make each monster type's loot table unique again, a reduction in the great ML gold farms, a good spring cleaning and a new gold sink could just make UO's economy viable again.
     
  34. Lorax_Pacific

    Lorax_Pacific Lore Master
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    Um ya. So pay the developers in uo gold and they can go to the gas station and pay uo gold at the pump and they have an autodebit card for food purchases at the store. All the EA investors get uo gold instead of stock dividends. Buying EA products are purchased with UO gold and EA then only has UO gold so they make madden football. Since they have this bank full of UO gold they pay the football developers with EA gold...

    The world revolves around UO!!!!

    -Lorax
     
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  35. Barrakketh

    Barrakketh Guest

    Doesnt Markee Dragon or someone else do this ?

    I believe its already being done , or it was being done for quite a few years.

    MD buys a bunch of game time codes at a discount from EA , then he trades the codes for game gold , then MD sells the gold on web sites.
     
  36. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    No, EA never sold codes at a discount, to Markee Dragon or anyone else. If you ever find gametime codes for sale at less than the price EA charge for them, treat the offer with extreme suspicion.

    For a short time there were brokers who bought for cash and sold for gold, then selling the gold to recoup their cash.
    As gold prices fell, and more brokers got involved, many of them less than honest, this became less feasible and has more or less stopped. I believe Markee Dragon stopped this service several years ago.

    There was a major problem some years ago where people who had paid for their gametime with gold found the codes had been purchased with stolen credit cards and their accounts were blocked till they paid again.
    Note: To the best of my knowledge Markee Dragon was NOT involved in that debacle.
     
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  37. Jhym

    Jhym Guest

    They wouldn't be able to keep the servers running if they did.

    Gold sinks (which I still feel are unneeded) should be recurring upkeep costs for items, materials, or desirable activities.

    For instance, certain items that require recharging for use (like wands.) Or certain useful materials that need to be purchased in bulk (reagents, scrolls, etc.) And then desirable activities would be things like titles, purchased "events" (like a guild hunt or a monster generator like the golden crystals), and character modification (hair, makeup, gender, race.)

    Otherwise, if they wanted to cut the spigots they would have re-instituted the restrictions on vendor gold that they removed about... 8 years ago? Can't remember exactly when they took it out. However, it was VERY annoying to have to wait for vendor gold respawns so you could sell shirts or scrolls again.

    I wouldn't mind them adding in more deco purchases, ala the carpet seller. This sort of thing makes way more sense if you want to talk gold sink, as most EVERYONE wants to decorate at some point.
     
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  38. popps

    popps Always Present
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    My understanding is that they are charged 1 gp every 500 gp worth of selling items per UO days (12 UO days in a real day), but debited (withdrawn from money that the vendor is holding) every real day.

    Bottom line is, at the end of the (real) day the charge is still 12 gps for every 500 gps worth of items up for sale.

    Assuming that a vendor is holding, say, 150 millions gp of items up for sale, the real day charge is about [(150,000,000 : 500) x 12] = 3,600,000 gps.

    If items do not sell, say, for like 10 days, that is about 36 millions gps gone down the drains.........
     
  39. Konge

    Konge Lore Master
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    To answer your question popps. They have gold in their banks. Yeah, I know, people can be wealthy in a video game. It's game breaking. That should be in one of your 12 steps to make UO great, give everyone one trillion gp and make that the cap of money at the same time, per account. I mean, if everyone, even new players has 1 Trillion GP, everyone is on the same footing...
     
  40. popps

    popps Always Present
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    I have no problem with accumulating gold in game as long as the only thing that cost lots is decorative items.

    That a rare book is worth a hundred millions or some rubble it does not bother me a tiny bit.

    What bothers me, and a whole lot also, is when millions are charged for items needed to compete in PvP.

    Things like Powerscrolls, weapons, armor.

    This is the stuff I have problems with costing lots.

    Why ?

    Because it limits players' ability to be competitive and therefore, it limits the fun in the game because it divides the players base in a few players who can be uber powerfull and a bunch of other players who will loose most fights if not all.

    It kills PvP, IMHO, and it is VERY bad for the game, overall, the way I see it.

    But gold itselt, hundreds of millions, billions trillions, I do not care "if" the only thing they would be worth buying were decorative items, not needed at all in combat.
     
  41. Demonous

    Demonous Rares Fest Host | Ches Jul 2010
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    theres like 1 broker that actually sells game time codes for gold and its 30 mil for 30 days, i miss paying 15 to 20 mil for 90 days like years ago :(
     
  42. Megilhir

    Megilhir Guest

    Make a new shard that allows you to play on only when you reach a certain level of gold.

    You "buy" your way into the shard and it has new cool ideas and game-play. Maybe you can terra-form, clear forests on land you own, place a land plot that allows you to have a yard, maybe develop a real 3D ocean front area, or whatever

    You can only elevate a character to that shard for a certain amount of gold and they start roughly anew.

    Everything is pristine. No transfers into. No new toon creation on the shard. No! You have to PAY UO gold for this luxury.

    UBER!

    Plus now the filthy rich can show their skills on an austere shard.

    That way we normal wealth critters can buy and sell at a readsonable price.
     
  43. Megilhir

    Megilhir Guest

    Besides, one has to wonder, where are they keeping the gold if they have no clothing?
     
  44. Megilhir

    Megilhir Guest

    Bank sitting: 1 Million hourly.
     
  45. Kellgory

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    I think there was a post a long time ago that might have been from MD about how they used to buy time code tokens in bulk from EA and resell for gold ingame, but then when they went to order another large batch they got the run around from "customer service" and I think they basically gave up.
     
  46. Konge

    Konge Lore Master
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    Just saying, this post is about the idea of gold for playtime, not pvp. And I think we all know what you care about popps, you lay it on thick EVERY thread. The problem is you're asking for a handout, this isn't Handouts Online. We do have a help hot line though, if you'd wish to call it.
     
  47. Lore Master

    Lore Master Guest

    Bad Idea it would only lose players and ultima Online would get cancelled. I am getting tired of players asking for gold sinks no offense to anyone.
    • Gold sinks hurt the little guy the most. we really don't need a gold sink instead of a gold sink stop all these web sites from selling gold then everyone would value there gold more because they would have to earn it.
    One of the few gold sinks I would not mind infact I would love would be a UO Casino run by npc because it would be optional and as you all know Casinos always rake in more money then they lose Its a buisness after all.
     
  48. popps

    popps Always Present
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    You brought up the equal footing issue which brought up my reply, not me.

    I was merely making a comment about how vendors' fees, when they are actually implemented (work arounds..work arounds........) can be a real gold sink.
    Since the thread is about gold........
     
  49. Riply

    Riply Lore Keeper
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    Since the title is about gold sinks here's a few suggestions for what its worth.

    1) Charge a fee to enter certain locations to acquire the better items in the game.

    2) Charge a fee huge fee for extra plots of houses on same account. Fee would vary depending on the size of the lot. There are alot of shards now that are pretty empty and would allow players to try them out.

    3) Be able to have basements to existing houses but charge a gold fee that would be dependent of the plot size.

    4) Have a clean up britania event but instead of items make it gold only, and make the items unique only to that event. Place a time period that the event will end. Place various prices on the the differant items so that some are very exspensive but in the long run would be very rare and the most collectible items down the road.
     
  50. Obsidian

    Obsidian UO Forum Moderator
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    As much as the game needs gold sinks, this is not one I support. I am ok with paying real cash to keep this game alive. If EA loses profits from this game, UO will go away. I don't want to see that happen. This is the same reason why I would not support multiple houses per account. As much as that sounds tempting, it would cause a loss of revenue for EA-Mythic. Ultimately, that will be bad for this game we love.

    I'm am glad EA hasn't changed monthly subscription fees in as long as I can remember. By paying in 6 month blocks, I still pay the same subscription fee I paid when I started in 1999.

    -OBSIDIAN-