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Gold sinks, what do you think will work (Voice your opinion!!!)

Discussion in 'UHall' started by sapphirediablo11, Oct 17, 2008.

  1. Well gold to me is now getting out of hand... seeing more then one person at brit bank selling stuff for over 200M. I know there are alot of people saying things, but they are scattered, everywere.. Plus i'm kindof curious as to what people come up with :D

    What do you guys think will make a good gold sink???
    The biggest ones that i've seen are...

    - Reagents, LRC items ruined the use of them, was a huge grab.
    - New currency, then deflate the gold equivalent the new $$$ and lower amount recived.
    - Banning all the hackers (going to take some time :|)
    - Making a gold only collection pot for New items.
    - Make current collections which are most demanding, into gold only.
    - Over Priced super rares (I payed 500m gold and only got this T-shirt)
    - Create a cap of gold per shard
    - Rebuild town, requiring gold and items, more of each the better quality the town in the end
    - Balancing out loot... a bird should not drop 2k gold 15 items and other things.... (swoop not jsut A bird.. :p)
    - Wandering healers Costing you money, were in town ones would not, and player ones do not...
    - Cost of a rez when out of battle varies on your skill point total.
    - Rare ingreediants, (blight curruption ect..) can be sold on vendors at obseen prices...
    - Banning all duppers has to be said a second time, just reworded :D but YES IT WILL TAKE TIME>>> just work faster please :O hehe
    - Gold requirements/reagents for ninja skills or Spellweaving...
    - LRC is reagent Channeling not Just removal... it takes regs out of banks for homes,...
    - Taxing the land :p 10% for everything muhaha (kidding on that part.. but is an idea)
    - BoS use 50 gold a pound thus making gold sending pointless :O
    - make everything buyable :| not sure one this one... but vendors have every item on them :O or something like that :eek:

    If i missed something just keep reposting at bottom the ones i missed... sorry about slow update on list... i am ill from a cold :(
  2. Viquire

    Viquire Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Jun 5, 2008
    Likes Received:

    Its also the only one that actually holds promise of actually working over the course of time.
  3. Harb

    Harb Guest

    I have two overarching thoughts. First, I don't believe there is any credibility with "undoing" or "nerfing" anything, it's almost always exactly the wrong direction to take except in absolutely unmanageable situations (such as the rise of barding prior to pub 16). Undoing/ nerfing almost always causes more consternation than benefit, and at no time has it ever been wise for dev folks to cause players to quit out of frustration. Breaking items, items that can't be fortified, forcing regs in the post-LRC era, and higher insurance are all concepts moving in the wrong direction IMHO.

    Secondly, there is no way to "sink" gold. There's too much of it, and too high a percentage of it was not "earned," it was duped. Duping must be halted before any change can occur, but gold as a currency must be replaced. I don't think current scaling is too far off, but it can be relooked as part of a changeover. It must also be remembered that many players have earned their wealth the old fashioned way, so there must be item purchases available to players prior to a changeover. I do not favor "new" items, simply a vendor that allows purchase of any artifact, reward or token ever available. I'd recommend leaving out armor sets, except the clean up campaign sets, which I would include. There can be no expiration timer on such a vendor, else returning players would be slighted as would military service members overseas for extended periods of time. Beside the vendor should be another offering the same items, but for the new currency. It's the only way you can "beat" our storied past regarding duping.
  4. love2winalot

    love2winalot Guest

    Nothing. Here is the simple reason why, EA has NEVER made or supported a single post "EVER", regarding Gold Sinks. It simply not important to them. Every post ever made has been from Players, and every reply in them has been from players, just like this very post.......
  5. Setnaffa

    Setnaffa Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Sep 13, 2004
    Likes Received:
    It's way past the time when a Gold Sink could make any difference in UO. Unless they charged something like 500 million Gold for a T-Shirt that says "I paid 500 million Gold, and all I got was this lousy T-shirt", the amount of Gold in the game would remain a ridiculously high number. There are TRILLIONS in gold in this game.

    You want a gold fix?

    1. EA reduces all gold by 99.9%. So 1,000 gold now is 1 gold piece. Any gold piles below 500 gold disappear;everything else is rounded off to the nearest gold piece.
    2. Gold loot is greatly reduced except for Champions and Bosses, which is only lowered by half. When a creature first spawns, it has no gold at all. The longer it is alive or more players it has killed, the more gold it has (at a rate and cap determined by the creature's fame level). This will stop Gold Farmers completely.
    3. High-end Smith BOD rewards gold is dropped down to be inline with the Tailor BOD reward gold. Maybe both are even lower or done away with altogether.
    4. All NPC vendor's pricing stays the same except for resources, which are greatly reduced in price and follow a Sosarian-wide price. NPC Vendors buy stuff at 25% of the current Sell Price.
    5. House prices stay the same. Sure folks could sell their house for the gold, but then they wouldn't have a house.
    6. Temporary option to automatically reset all prices on player vendors. Lowest amount would be 1 gold piece.
    7. Insurance rates are lowered by five-sixths (1,000 gold per piece instead of 6,000). This would actually be equivalent to 1 million gold in old gold, so Insurance wouldn't be a given anymore, and dying would be a bit riskier. Also, each time you die within a rl week, your insurance rates go up by 10% on any pieces you were wearing at the time of death. The extra gold does not go to the victor in PvP (they just get the normal rate). If they did get the extra gold, it would lead to alot more rez killing.
    8. If anyone uninsures an item that was insured before the change, then they only get 6 gold back into their account (not 6,000).
    9. Any other gold sources or sinks are adjusted accordingly.

    End result? 99.9% less gold in the game. Gold actually has value again. 1 Million gold checks (equivalent to 1 Billion in today's gold) become extremely rare. After this, 50,000 gold would actually be alot.
  6. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    May 16, 2008
    Likes Received:
    How about I be the sink and you give all the gold to me? :thumbup1:
  7. J0KING

    J0KING Guest

    I like the idea of having a collection that is gold turn in.

    Another thing that I was always a fan of was some form of casino or game of chance... sure some players may win, but have you ever heard of a non-profit casino? In any economy real or not, it is a great way for people to be removed of their earnings :)
  8. It's hard to beat the adding of insurance as a gold sink. The change to the bag of sending slowed down being able to get gold. About the only thing it is good for now is sending items to the bank.

    Adding costly items don't really work since things become more unbalanced in PVP and PVM. That also adds to the problem of the have and have not, people in the game.

    That don't leave a lot of room for anything new.
  9. laurlo

    laurlo Guest

    they already are banning.. honestly no clue how they can sink the majority of gold..
  10. hawkeye_pike

    hawkeye_pike Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    May 15, 2008
    Likes Received:
    Only thing that'll work is:

    Cap the total amount available on a shard.
    Thus, hoarded gold will lead to less monster loot.
    Reduce the total gold by 90% over night, each pile, each check.
    Tax every character with more than 100k in his bank box with 10%.
    Money removed from the hands of players via gold sinks will go back to the monster loot.
  11. Der Rock

    Der Rock Guest

    ok,almost every 2nd week we see threads about gold sinks,
    but i never read what the poster anticipate about a real gold sink
    could pls everyone post what do u personal anticipate about gold sink
    also a question is: wich form of gold sink?

    1. a currency reform ? (like divide existing gold by 10 or 100 ?
    2 a player holding gold sink only ?
    3. a player holding gold sink and a monster loot gold sink ?
    4. a gold sink by inflate the market with easier obtainable items ?

  12. Der Rock

    Der Rock Guest

    are u sure?

    what do u know about currency, do u know the meaning of currency?
    currency is ONLY a medium of exchange,
    so if we would follow ure idia, that means that the gold will vanish in 10 days to ZERO in the bank box
    u can imagine the consequence??
    player would give up on gold as an medium of exchange,so they would go back to items only, that would mean i give u 1 Armor of Fortune for 5 Leggins of Bane
    or i give u 1000 arrows for 500 recall scrolls

    i am realy unsure about ure strange idias ;)
  13. a slave girl

    Stratics Veteran

    Aug 14, 2008
    Likes Received:
    1. Fancy, Expensive Looking Title in a Bold Bright Color: Richest Player In UO 2008: 100 Billion Gold.

    2. Fancy Title in a Different Bright color: Second Richest Player in UO 2008: 99 Billion Gold.

    3. Fancy Title in a Third Color (They get less bright): Third Richest Player in UO 2008: 98 Billion Gold.

    ...and so on until players quit buying.

    (Then we get a special Dev/GM team ingame to follow those with titles around ingame to see if they get anymore 100 and 99 and 98 billions and exactly where they are getting them from...yep, yep, uhuh).
  14. They already tax players. Every vendor collects it.
  15. aarons6

    aarons6 Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Oct 14, 2007
    Likes Received:
    i think right now the ony good form of a gold sink would be to make gold worth more in the library turn ins..

    so when i want something i can just turn in gold in at the library and not give that gold to other players for val ingots (not sinking the gold at all since they mined the ingots for free)

    personaly gold should be the higest form on the list.. not the val ingots..

    here is expample.

    gold is 1pt ever 15gp
    val ingots is 39 pts for 1 ingot.
    you can buy val ingots from players for around 150 per.
    thats only 3.8gp per 1pt

    and its not sinking any gold, its going from player to player.

    this is a really good system, just not planned out very well.

    even the hides are over pointed.
    1 barbed hide gives you 15 pts
    barbed hides sell for around 80 each.
    thats 5.3 gp per pt..

    and that of course isnt sunk, its traded from player to player.

    gold should be at the top of the list of pts.. this would get rid of a lot of gold..
    i myself have gotten every totem from buying val ingots from players.
  16. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
    Moderator Professional Wiki Moderator Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter

    Jul 16, 2003
    Likes Received:
    I don't think that's the only thing that will work, but it's an idea.

    However, I wouldn't cap the gold per shard, as it would only hurt any real new or returning player starting with a new account.

    Here's a bunch of ways I'd consider (all of them, or even a few)

    1. Have all existing checks, on a certain day auto-redeem where they are, with any gold over the capacity of the container holding it (or the house, if locked down on the floor), be lost. People who want to keep a fair amount of their gold would have the opportunity to spread it out, but the more clutter one has, the less gold one would have room to keep.
    2. Then Reduce gold by 90% (including most loot forms), but for the first 30 days afterward, PvM Insurance rates and vendor fees would also be reduced by that much (after that grace period, it would return to normal).
    3. Revert bags of sending to the 1 charge per send, but have them charge 50 GP per stone weight sent (making them worthless for gold). This will take gold directly out of the economy. Other items that use PoT (like the pet balls) would also have a gold fee to use.
    4. Have certain NPCs charge for their services that are currently free. Say, for example, wandering healers requiring 500 gold, the way the one in the Gauntlet askes for 5000. The Priests of Mondain would want more (the price of being red). Stables would charge much higher rates than they do now, as well as weekly fees based on control & stable slots. If one has not the gold for getting pets in or out, the pets are held until you have enough money to pay them out, or tell the stablemaster to release the pets (at which time you could attempt to retame, if they don't get guard-whacked - one could do it at the stables in Ilshenar with no guard zones, to be safe)
    5. Have LRC suits charge your account or your backpack gold, every time they sub for the real thing. say, 5 per reagent, per spell. This turns them into a convenience, as the only one that will save money will be Paladins (the 5 gold fee will be less than the tithing amount for most spells), and the occasional necromancer (some of the necro regs cost 5-7 each).
    6. Add a gold requirement similar to tithing for bushido, ninjitsu & spellweaving (or add regs to them - say, since spellweaving is most analogous to old ultima Druidism, perhaps Oak leaves, and the various lumberjack special items - after all, Mistletoe IS a Parasitic Plant, and bark would be a naturally obvious reagent for reaper form). The Bushido & Ninjitsu costs could be something similar to a daily (or weekly) donation before being able to use things requiring over 50 skill, as tribute to the Daimyo (for bushido), or to the Clan (for Ninja), based on the character's relative skill, and total skill points.
    7. Take the collection systems, and split it into two donation totals for each character - 1 for items donated, 1 for gold donated. Require that at least half the points turned in for a specific reward MUST be from points gained from gold - and have the gold points donated count double for determining the collections' tiers.
    8. Have player-run vendors charge 1% per day of the gold they are holding, about the amount that would be needed for type of vendor contract's full duration (defaultung to the longest rental vendor period, for non-rental vendors), as a service fee for holding that kind of money. So, if a vendor was on a weekly rental basis, and charged 1000 per day, all gold over 7000 would be subject to a 1% per day fee. The fee would be waived for vendors whose total gold on person is under 10k gold.
  17. Der Rock

    Der Rock Guest

    hm,may i say a lol here?
    dont u read my post?

    Basara can u tell me the difference between a DEED 60 000 Arrows and 300 000 Gold
    in check/on vendor or in the bank box
    can u ????
  18. I have to laugh when I see people spamming 'selling a castle for 190 million', and know there is no way I ever own such a place as I cannot carry 190 million in checks to trade,[besides most I have at any time is 5-10 million], and NO I not going to pay U.S. cash for said item. Besides I am happy with my old tower right now and would not know what to do in a castle, but if one day someone drops dead and wills one to me I will sure try.
  19. I like how this is coming alot of interesting replies :D

  20. I am sure that new players would stay with UO if this was used. 500 per rez. they would need more gold not less.

    I do like the library gold turn in idea if the items was worth it.

    The idea of needing to buy another when one from the library wears out one thing. The other stuff needs to continue the use of pof so that the bod system don't go to pot too. We do want the Smiths to stay in the game right. There needs to still be a place for runics.

    If a gold sink is put into the game it needs to not be so painful as to hurt any of the others. We must keep in mind that what goes into the game can't be taken out. At least not easly. A good example is the use of the bag of sending.
  21. Harb

    Harb Guest

    Community collections have actually lagged behind the times. Some of the items maintain desirability, others don't. Unique items, such as statuettes and titles continue to hold value. Much of the armor and most weapons do not. Plus them up some, and there will be added interest. Address scripting resources separate of collections, it's a play style issue. For those of us who do earn resources, it would be a major "negative" if turned into a gold only system.
  22. Redxpanda

    Redxpanda Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

    Dec 6, 2007
    Likes Received:
    Get AIG in here. It will be gone faster than you can say "Golden Parachute." :sad3:

    Seriously, someone already said it best:

    The only thing that will work is to do a gold wipe and ban all the scripters. Doing that will cause 75% of the players to quit and this game will no longer be profitable thus ending the game.
  23. 5% Luck

    5% Luck Guest

    I would like to see ingots(colores) byable from npc. just like arrows they up in price and dont respawn fast enough to make it a great source. Maybe just in gargoyle citys After a while they be 200 per dull and up from there.
  24. Tasslehoff

    Tasslehoff Guest

    make soul stone frags rechargeable.500k to recharge it or something like that.
  25. drfunk

    drfunk Guest

    I do not see how any of this solves the issue.. when you deflate currency the only people you affect are the poor... *ahem no different then Obamas tax plan* The ones with money under your plan... are still mega rich!! Banning all hackers is obvious. Gold collection for new itesm only makes those items worth a ton of money.. again only the rich could pay for.

    On a side note you seem to be jaded that you are not mega rich... well i use to be that way until i disovered its not hard to get 600mil... and It is shocking how easy it is. The most obvious are work for it. I have sold 10 crimson cinctures and made 150mil on those alone! Now most of you will say, 'I am unlucky i have never recieved one and i am there all the time' I did not get my first crimmy until after approx 100 tries then all the sudden i went on a tear and got like 5 real fast. I am currently on a dry spell... it will change!

    The other way is to camp doom. Now i know its as boring as doing mel back to back but hey... you can make a fortune. with the new changes its so easy to become a very profitable warrior! I have made 400mill in doom alone! If you are poor and dont know how to use a gold skull... dont come here crying.

    The last method to making money is crafting. This is the hardest method because it requires an understanding of templates and what armor sells at high dollars. Dexxer armor is slowly becoming similar to mage/necro armor. I personally know of @4 weapons you can make with low level runic tools that fetch 20-100m each. I can guarantee all of you have tossed away 100m by leraving it on a corpse to be deleted!!! As in life sometimes it takes time and experience to know the ways and art of making money... all these posts about gold sinks are usless and a waste of time.. The rich will find new ways guaranteed and the poor will well be poorer!!! guaranteed

    My point is the OP of this thread is clueless and these dumb posts are usually from lazy jaded newbs that dont want to spend the time to learn the ways to get rich. Not only will his plans not work but they will hurt the poor even more.... socialism never works.
  26. AEowynSP

    AEowynSP Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    May 13, 2008
    Likes Received:
    Let us pay for accounts with gold.
    A huge problem with many online games is people being paid to farm, scripters and dupers. If we can pay for our accounts with online currency UO will have to take a stand and finally do sompthing about scripting/dupeing ect.
    Plenty of people pay for there accounts by selling in game goods but this does not take the money out of the game.

    Other than that I would love VERY expensive decco or pixel crack that is nothing more than a status symbol.
    Then again I play Siege and a majority of the population never hits the 10 mill mark.
  27. Anne

    Anne Journeyman
    Stratics Veteran

    Nov 16, 2006
    Likes Received:
    I am totally against anything that would affect new players and other people who don't have multi-millions.

    First of all scripters and dupers are the problem. It's the people who have billions that should be targeted. Not the ordinary players.

    The idea of knocking a couple zeros off gold checks is totally unrealistic.
    Joe, who is just starting uo has 1,000 gold - Bob, who has been playing uo 2 years has 10,000,000 - John, who has been scripting/duping has 1,000,000,000. Take a couple zeros off and Joe now has 10 gp, Bob has 100k gp and John has 10,000,000. Who is affected the most by this? Especially since John can just dupe some more gold or get more free accounts to script.

    I don't have anywhere close to billions and I feel I've worked hard for my gold. To see it disappear when the billionaires are barely touched would make me very angry.

    Oh, one more thing. Do you really think a scripter/duper is going to spend super amounts of gold on some fancy items? I'm pretty sure they're more likely to be selling their gold.
  28. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
    Moderator Professional Wiki Moderator Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter

    Jul 16, 2003
    Likes Received:

    Actually, you will notice I only mentioned wandering healers and priests of mondain.

    In-town healers and rezzes from other players would still cost 0. And, you could also make it to where characters with a "Young" tag weren't charged for any death.

    And, Der rock:

    Anyone can tell the difference between a commodity deed and a check - even the software (you can't break or make checks in the new commodity deed boxes, after all).

    A barter-based economy is doomed, as how can one find a seller for a specific item that wants what you have - the in-game world is too abstract for that model to work. It only works on a small scale in the real world, and because it DOESN'T work when scaled up, is the reason why real societies invented money.
  29. AEowynSP

    AEowynSP Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    May 13, 2008
    Likes Received:
    "Oh, one more thing. Do you really think a scripter/duper is going to spend super amounts of gold on some fancy items? I'm pretty sure they're more likely to be selling their gold."
    They asked for a gold sink ....just my 2 cents.
  30. Xenobia

    Xenobia Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

    May 13, 2008
    Likes Received:
    This has to be the most intelligent post in this whole entire thread

  31. I always thought that when you buy something from another player like the crimson cincher the gold only changes hands not remove it from the game.
  32. BadManiac

    BadManiac Guest

    I'd give away ALL my gold to an NPC that sold high end equipment pieces with selectable mods.
    No matter how hard I look, and how many players I wave my 100+ mill at can I find the armor suits and weapons I want, they just aren't there. I'd happily give away everything else for good equipment.
  33. Fluffi

    Fluffi Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Mar 11, 2004
    Likes Received:
    A game which has run for 10 years, during which more money has entered the game than left, on every single day, is going to have lots of cash floating around.

    Why do people constantly call for goldsinks?

    The "stuff is too expensive for me to buy" argument is invalid:
    Any savvy vendor will price their goods at the highest price at which think they will get a buyer.
    Items are therefore (usually) priced at a level the game economy can stand.

    The "newbies haven't got a chance" argument is also invalid:
    We all started our brand-new characters with the same amount of "stuff". I can remember when the cost of a small house in the middle of nowhere was as far out of my reach as an 18x18 within Luna would be today.
    Plenty of people have suggested strategies for making reasonable amounts of money relatively quickly, and if money is your goal, why not try what they suggest.

    (The "newbies haven't got a chance" argument DOES become valid if you actually mean "newbies haven't got a chance of getting the instant gratification of an elite suit, weapon or house within their first week of playing.")
    If that is what is keeping newbies away, then I won't shed any tears.
  34. 5% Luck

    5% Luck Guest

    Well honestly What i did was stopped relying on my gold/skills/items and started fresh on an underpopulated shard. Normally I play on Atlantic where some players make a living selling underpowered items at huge prices by spamming at the bank till someone buys out of annoyance.

    Now I tried legends. From scratch I was able to make 50 mill inside 3 months join a great guild have a (free rent)vendor on the footsteps outside luna bank and a complete suit of armor for each of my char slots. All on a shard where the total amount of gold is less than 10% than Atlantic.

    I can (back on my original shard atlantic) farm gold from corpes at the rate for 250k an hour(max rate no BoS). I can find items to sell to players for several million a piece on a daily basis. I tame the rarest beasts in the game and sell them. I can make gold.

    Now thats the tap.


    Where is the drain?

    Item insurance? less that 60k a week

    Vendor costs? I average about 200k a week

    Npc shops? Only 50k a week at most (uslay one shopping spree a month 200k)

    Now to say we need a gold sink is to say i can make up my weeks losses in 2 hours hunting. Is this a bad thing? Does it hurt the economy? Should I sell my midnight lesser hyruis(imo the most rare tame) for 5 million gold?


    But i like it!
  35. Well depending on when you joined, you didn't get the same stuff as you do today... Today you get what... 1k, book, dagger, candle, and lowest end things for your character set, with regs or what not... Before, you could get a guardian, a person who literally watched you grow helped you in the game and play along with, and would be afriend, before that is when you got a REAL glass (or was it crystal :| ) dagger, that you needed to use to slay a dragon, that would kill it in 1 hit, but break afterwards... To me, honestly those are nicer that what new players get nowadays....

    When i started playing the game, it took me and about 3 other people savings of 1 months of non stop fighting to afford my first little wooden cadin, (which would Decay in 3 days if no one visited) and we were so happy just to get that, Were are now you can kill one monster and make enough money to last you a life time...

    So New players are getting the advantage of the over inflation and getting fortunes a kill, since everything seems to carry more than 1000 gold (over state ment i know :p )

    Also when you start something up, it really feels like *^%$%* when you just made your first 10k gold from saving up after a long time, and go out shopping were you can buy :| 500 arrows maybe. :| or if you go out to battle and die, about 100 times against a monster, and you see a person run up and 1 hit kill them, and run by like it was nothing... This dismays new players to me....

    Anyways, i will update bullets at top later with the other suggestion summarized :D
  36. Der Rock

    Der Rock Guest

    not to have a clue is NO excuse

    1.if someone die 100 times against the same monster, then he has NO clue or is simply dumb
    if someone die to much against the same monster he is fighting the WRONG level of monster.
    what do "new-player" expect?? log in and kill a AW,because it has more gold to loot???

    2.only people who LOVE this kind of mmo-fantasy games should play such games,
    such a game dont need people wich maybe in real dont like to work but collect the sozial.check everymonth.

    3.it NEVER dismay me at my beginning to see high-level,high-equiped player,
    NO, it was always stimulation for me to reach this level sometime.

    4.today´s problem is more like "new player" dont want to see his avatar grown-up over time,no, they want a GMO (genetically modified organism) instand HERO with the ability
    to spell "give arties"

    5.MOST "we need gold sink" poster has absolutly NO clue
    what they expect?? a ultra rare item/armor or what ever should get sold for 1000 gold and not for 200 000 000 gold ????????
    the quantity of supply and quantity of demand define the price nothing else.
  37. Beastmaster

    Beastmaster Guest

    I'm sure most everyone here will be against this idea but I'm posting it anyway. Maybe someone from EAMythic will take notice and give it serious consideration. One thing that has remained constant over these 11 years is that players will do anything to have the biggest home they can and the most storage spaces available. Irregardless of how crappy they think EA is treating them they will maintain those homes so they can hoard all the crap they see. EA could implement this plan which will probably be decried by the masses within 30 minutes of me hitting submit, and the players would tolerate it despite their protestations.

    Enough buildup? Its a tax plan on housing. Works like this. Houses are ranked from smallest to largest based on tile size. So a 7x7 is #1 and a 31x31 castle is #59. Yes, there are 59 dimensional combinations available. The tax formula is ( #tiles x 100 x taxrate x rank x guard zone factor ) per real week. With a taxrate of 2.5 the smallest home would cost 12,250 per week in taxes and the castle would cost just over 14M. The rank variable causes the rate to be higher for larger homes. In this example the castle would drain about 3/4B gold each real year. If the Dev team thought that was too drastic the taxrate could be tweaked. For those with the popular 18x18, it works out to about 240M per year.

    Edit: Forgot to include the guard zone factor originally. And I think it should be 2.
  38. Der Rock

    Der Rock Guest

    are u sure u are from north carolina and not from north korea ???? :)
  39. Xenobia

    Xenobia Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

    May 13, 2008
    Likes Received:
    And what if....WHAT IF people are not around and cannot pay this "tax" Let's say someone is in Iraq and doesn't have that kind of money in the game/bank "for whatever reason" It goes back to the days of having to open your doors to refresh your houses. I pay my monthy fees on my accounts and I have what I have. If I want more, I go fight for it. If I have plenty, I sit at the Brit Bank and watch folks sit around "Not" talking. This whole gold sink thing is coming from folks who want more but either don't want to or don't know how to effectively go get it. I'm going to tell you right now that if anyone in EA starts taking 0's off of my hard earned checks, I get rid of these accounts so fast their heads spin. I'm sure there are many who feel the same way. Thanks for listening to me rant lol
  40. Beastmaster

    Beastmaster Guest

    Then I guess they'd better have their most valued possessions on their persons or in their bank, because their house would surely fall into decay. Of course there's nothing that says a co-owner or friend couldn't make the payment for them. The idea is that its a gold sink, it removes gold from the economy. Its not about letting people hoard it until its convenient for them to make their contribution.
  41. Beastmaster

    Beastmaster Guest

    Go ahead and say outright what you are implying. Scared?
  42. Xenobia

    Xenobia Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

    May 13, 2008
    Likes Received:
    LoL I'm not saying I'm scared...I'm saying you take my crap that I EARNED and the fightin gloves are on. Scared has nothing to do with it. I pay my money for all of my accounts so that I can have a wide range of skills and things. IT IS A GAME!!!!!!!! People act like we are talking about the world economy here and war will begin if we don't tax the living hell out of folks. Give me a break. Start remembering that you got a little CD out of a little box and put it in your computer to load some little pixelized people on your screen. I love the game. I pay for the game. Let me play the game and stop overdramatizing everything to the point of making people not want to listen to you. I go off in my world in UO (I also have my friends) but I LOVE to play by myself because guess what is missing when I do that???? DRAMA!!! If there are cheaters and scripters then by all means get em and kick em out but leave me the hell alone as I work hard for what I get and I pay my montly fees...which I might add WENT UP!!!
  43. Beastmaster

    Beastmaster Guest

    Check your threading before you overreact. The "scared" reply was to Der Rock, not you.
  44. Beastmaster

    Beastmaster Guest

    Forgot to include the guard zone factor originally. And I think it should be 2 if the house is in a guard zone.
  45. Harb

    Harb Guest

    I'm really not sure why socialist economics are making such a dramatic comeback these days. "Real life" is bad enough, in an entertainment product - it’s ludicrous. Once you have something, in theory it should be yours. Taxing anything is done to generate revenue for services provided, at least that’s the theory we study academically for our MPAs and the way most agencies attempt to function in my experience. Why would EA/Mythic “tax” anything, their revenues are generated by purchases and subscription fees? Let us enjoy our entertainment; going the other way - at a minimum - diminishes enjoyment. Diminished enjoyment = diminished subscriptions, this simple fact should not get lost in all the hogwash.
  46. Xenobia

    Xenobia Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

    May 13, 2008
    Likes Received:
    Oh then I apologize lol To you anyway. It's still early for me as I was up all dang night trying save my house. But I still direct those statements to everyone who is wanting to take my money and tax my house and spend more on vendors and spend more on insurance and all that stuff. This is really not a major deal IMHO. The scripters and cheaters are a huge deal but it seems to me that EA is taking steps to correct that (I see a lot of scorching plots in UO) Just leave me be is all I ask. I work hard for what I get as I am sure most everyone does. And when I can afford to purchase a crimson, I'll purchase it OR I'll go get one on my own. The new people get tons of help from folks in uo, but it may take them a year to afford something so good. I know it took me MONTHS to get 10k together to buy a sweet set of man made armor back in the day, only to get pkd and lose it. I actually sat here and cried lol but I worked hard AGAIN and eventually build my accounts up to what they are.

    Again, I apologize.
  47. Xenobia

    Xenobia Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

    May 13, 2008
    Likes Received:
    EXACTLY!!! That is what I'm trying to say, only you said it better lol
  48. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
    Stratics Veteran

    May 12, 2008
    Likes Received:

    First thing: You CANNOT force a currency devaluation (reducing all ingame gold by x%) because it simply wouldn't work. If you do NOT tell anyone and do it, then people who hoard resources will not be affected and many more that ARE affected will quit the game. If you tell everyone before it is done, you give people time to convert their gold supply into a commodity which they will then resell to end up with losing less gold (before they changed vendor pricing for resources, they could in theory actually have MADE money on this).

    The same applies to replacing the currency with a new one. People will buy out resources/commodities then sell for the new currency when they are able.

    Next: "Taxation" ideas won't work because for one we have a 100% foolproof gold sink right now. If you want a "tax" on something you can VOLUNTARILY assess that tax and drop the needed gold into one of the trash chests by a bank for it to be instantly deleted. Of course noone ever does this because they don't want to tax themselves, they want it to affect everyone else. It's the same as the shard consolidation arguments... while you can VOLUNTARILY swap to a higher population shards, people who call for shard closings and consolodations by and large are people whose shards will not be closed or they know they won't be affected negatively by such a procedure.

    Secondly, with taxation, it is usually mentioned with houses, but in return, there is only a punishment for not paying and NO benefit for paying aside from maintaining the status quo. People don't want to play a game that punishes for not following up on some make-work type of requirement. It's all payment and no benefit.

    For a gold sink to work, it has to meet three criteria:

    1. It has to be voluntary.
    2. It has to be a popular idea, something a LOT of people will want to use
    3. It has to NOT have an end-point (i.e. an NPC vendor selling house decorations works only until everyone has the decorations they want)
  49. Beastmaster

    Beastmaster Guest

    The only point I can agree with here is #3. It does not have to be voluntary to work. Any system that removes gold involuntarily or otherwise is still a gold sink. If its involuntary then #2 is automatically moot.

    Despite my long initial paragraph in my tax proposal, you guys still ignore the fact that you're addicted to having all the stuff you have in game and would continue playing and paying the tax if it were implemented. You'd start 100 threads on Stratics and ***** about it, but you'd still do it.
  50. Beastmaster

    Beastmaster Guest

    :) You make my point for me. We will do whatever EA comes up with in order to keep our precious pixels.