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Good article on mmorpg.com regarding games in need of overhauls (not OT)

Discussion in 'UHall' started by canary, Oct 6, 2009.

  1. EnigmaMaitreya

    EnigmaMaitreya Crazed Zealot
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    Easily forgettable read, but probably close the tab after the first 5 lines.
     
  2. Chad Sexington

    Chad Sexington Lore Master
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    :thumbsup:

    For those who are lazy:

     
  3. Kiminality

    Kiminality Guest

    That wasn't at all surprising, considering the UO fans there are generally the ones who believe pre-tram is the only way for UO to be.
     
  4. Alezi

    Alezi Lore Keeper
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    Step Two: Implement it with modern technology.

    Have PvP AND non-PvP shards. That's what should've been done in the first place.
     
  5. Storm

    Storm UO Forum Moderator
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    exactly not even worth reading... they have always said the same crap blah blah blah... same drivel that has been written almost since the game came out they just keep trying so one day they can say see I told you so.. after 12 years give it up !
    and since uo makes money maybe its they who could learn a thing or two!
     
  6. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
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    It loses a lot of credibility at: "Yet, somehow, EA still makes money off this game."

    If you don't understand why something is working, it's dangerous to try to fix it.


    ( If you look over the SA promo desktop backgrounds uo.com offered, I do notice that all the graphics in the enhanced client are based on very high-resolution models )
     
  7. That made me laugh but to an extint, I agree.

    It is agruable that this person probably has no idea on what the best way to "remake" Ultima Online would be. Those sound like pretty generic goals for any company investing in remaking an MMO. Not to mention the entire game is still pretty much built onto the original design, it's just expanded with features and modifications.
     
  8. Rocklin

    Rocklin Guest

    The article is a little general in it's approach, but he is correct. UO is making money, but is not what it truely could be.

    Electronic Arts has TWICE tried to remake Ultima Online or a version of it, and TWICE given up.

    Ultima Online II was a cyber-punk version that had the beta testers of the day so excited, and then suddenly it was gone.

    [​IMG]

    Ultima X: Odyssey was on track to launch around the same time that World of Warcraft did. Perhaps if it did, WoW would not have become the massive giant that it eventually became.

    [​IMG]

    What I see on these forums is much more troubling than on most game sites. There is a core of players that refuse to let this game evolve and only want what was launched over a decade ago. Don't get me wrong, I love my house and my rare items and the history of what UO is. But folks, it's time to change.

    In the basis of evolution we learn that a species evolves or it dies out. Ultima Online is dieing out and it is time that it evolves. In the end, the game can have a slow burn, maybe five or so more years, or it can evolve and bring new life to itself.

    I believe this game and it's design could be the icon of what an MMO is and will be in the future. Right now it is a reminder or pleasant days past, and a fossil of the time when there was only one game to be played, Ultima Online.
     
  9. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    "Don't get me wrong, I love my house and my rare items and the history of what UO is. But folks, it's time to change."

    So, you want to give up housing and rare items, I presume the ability to drop items on the ground and for display in your house, in the name of progression? In other words, make UO just like the other games, WoW and EQ, etc.?
     
  10. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
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    Can I have your stuff?


    ( not to be too flippant, but even though I do want to see it evolve, I am firmly in the camp that would stay in the current game rather than move to a reboot that meant starting over - the importance of the illusion of accumulated history and status cannot be underestimated )
     
  11. I think the real question should be why they didn't use that pretty art model lady in the UX:O shot for our EC paperdolls instead of the hideous stuff they gave us.

    The UX:O looks like what a 3d rendered UO character SHOULD look like. The EC doesn't even come close.
     
  12. kittykat

    kittykat Journeyman
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    This is one thing I have to agree with:

    I can't count the number of time I've heard former players say "if there was just an MMO out there that had UO's play experience, but was modern, I'd be there in a heartbeat". Too many MMO's jump on the leveling and combat wagon, especially after the success of WoW - but if someone came out with a MMO with the complex diversity of UO, IMO it'd be incredibly successful.

    Obviously UO is doing something right, to still be here 12 years later, with players that return and return again. Someone else should have picked up on that by now *laughs*.
     
  13. I agree with Midori although I share completely different view points. I just think they should redevelop the entire game based on the current design concepts, but with a more modern isometric graphic approach (or even 3d), as well as a more complex battle system/AI etc.

    This way the game can be more constructively balanced between skills and classes, as well as balanced between skill/items.

    It would also give the developers of the UO2 project the opportunity to use a newer, more modern programming language/graphics engine. That spells efficiency.

    I just wouldn't advise EA to take that approach unless they [the company] were willing to elect the right people to do the job right (which I doubt they would take investment advice from myself...).
     
  14. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    The UX:O looks like what a 3d rendered UO character SHOULD look like.

    A Disney cartoon? No thanks... didn't like it the first time around and still don't like it.

    Yes, the EC male paperdoll needs (still) an overhaul, but the female one is fine as it is.
     
  15. IMO, EA isn't doing anything right for Ultima. Ok well I exaggerate somewhat; they get some things right. It's just like you said, because there is no competition for UOs style of gameplay, more people who enjoy UO are willing to stay with UO until that competition comes, or EA finally adopts change and evolves it into a much better UO.
     
  16. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    Actually I like both of them in the last link... the original and the redo. Yes they're different, but I'm not limited to liking ONE look either.

    Just the Ultima X version... not it. I never got into the 3 attempts at a 3d Ultima. Just never worked for me:

    1. Ultima 9 had the absolute WORST interface system by tying the movement AND the camera BOTH to the mouse. Normally I'm not someone who gets motion sick, but even I couldn't handle that. (by the same token, I also can't really handle the EC's version of Earthquake either... especially when someone else is casting it)

    2. UO2... never liked the idea of the Borg stuff that was thrown in and disliked it being shoehorned into UO to make McFarlane happy. Meer and Juka are ok, but the techno stuff... bleh.

    3. Ultima X: Odyssey (my god the amount of things in my life that use that word... a failed Ultima non-release, a favored song by the Dixie Dregs, a Magic expansion, Homer's work, the company that contracts us to conserve real life shipwreck treasure...): Anyway, while U:XO had some great gameplay ideas, I could never get into the Disney-style artwork of the models both character and creature. Kind of the same issue in a different area that I had with UO2.
     
  17. FishinFool

    FishinFool Guest

    Wow, I thought the fanboi epidemic was centered over on the lotro forums.

    This game is dying. In fact, as far as most reasonable people are concerned it's dead already.

    The "new" client is a joke, every step forward results in a half dozen back. There is simply no point in playing any more. Years upon years of duping and cheating have made it pointless for those us who like to build, expand and collect to even bother anymore.

    The point of the article is that these games can't be fixed - it's time to move on. But, and the big But is - re-make them bigger, badder and stronger. Don't settle for some rehash of what's already out there. We're all so been there, done that.

    UO, AC, AO and the others are still there because they are great games. They are just past their prime. What made them great needs to be preserved and expanded upon. The original UO was not only the first mass market mmo but it was revolutionary in concept. That concept, with today's technology can actually work.

    You can nip, tuck, botox and lift Stallone, Arnie and Bruce for another 10 years (maybe) but there is just no getting past the fact that they are just getting old.

    It's pretty much established as fact that EA was going to pull the plug on UO until the Mythic deal came along - but it isnt going to last. You need to understand how large corporations work.
     
  18. Drazasamus

    Drazasamus Guest

    there was a game that promised what uo does called trials of acension done by shadow pool studios... or something or other... they ran outa funding about 3 years ago... the only problem i had with what i read was your char had lives... so yeah... pvp was kinda outa the question...
     
  19. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    *chuckles* That is all I have.
     
  20. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
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    One thing to consider -- and I believe the current DevTeam is the first in a long time to actually "get" UO -- EA has been making money off of UO for years without having the first clue as to why the game was a success.
     
  21. Zyon Rockler

    Zyon Rockler Guest

    Obviously everyone loves the game for underlined reasons. We should try to understand that it is a fantasy game where you use your imigination. The problem is there because we tend to fantasize about something we want and if we can experience it first hand then we would probably do that.

    The simple things like banking, we go to the bank and imagine we are banking, with todays' tech we could have a more real experience. This is fundamental, that's why I bring it up.

    The void is another example, we see it and we imagine what it is. Can you see walking up on a heavy fog and as you step in you can not see the ground or anything around you. Shadows pass by you, Paladins riding horseback, fading in and out, voices, echoes from another dimension. As you step out the other side, just fog behind you and it mixes and clashes with other voids, where Palis are seen fighting dark fathers.

    Imagine all of the land masses connected, water ways as one. Global weather and spawned wildlife.

    Factions set where you have Brit and its' landmass and its' people.

    Other huge landmasses where you have Blackthorne's castle and evil types of people.

    Cove could be pirates with huge sailing ships and small.

    Well for me that's ok for now to imagine because I know it's coming and it will be great. I just hope it's UO.
     
  22. Galad

    Galad Journeyman
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    :thumbup:
     
  23. Ailish

    Ailish Lore Master
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    I am not convinced that pre-tram is exactly what this person meant. The world used to be a lot more dynamic than it is now. The world used to not have AoS. Yes, the world also had mixed PvM/PvP - but as someone pointed out, seperate servers would suffice.
     
  24. I always have to boil down to this.

    In 1999 I logged on Ultima online after buying it at Walmart,

    The world to me HAS never changed, NEVER. well maps etc (those dont count)

    Why in the hell should it change?

    Ultima online is one if not the greatest MMO out there, Ive played WoW, Warhammer, EQ, The list goes on and on.

    AND Nothing AND I MEAN NOTHING is like UO.

    I forone, love UO as is, The Graphics, the game play, The systems!

    Sure things can be tweaked and added or taken out.

    Its time for us players to say, "Yeah I like UO, No matter what happens and thanks EA/Mythic for trying to make my UO the same! THANK YOU"

    Put that in your sig and smoke it!
     
  25. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Congrats, you're like the 1 millionth person to say that. Been said for the past 5 years at least. And yet it is still going.

    Come back in another 2 years and say it again, maybe by then you will gain the honor of also being the 1.5 millionth person to say it :)


    But yeah, at the moment UO is fine!
    I would love for it to have a real 3d client though.

    But I do think they really need to update their coding! Update it to the point where one little change wont run the risk of messing up something completely different and unrelated.
     
  26. Ravenspyre

    Ravenspyre Guest

    UO does need to be remade and desperately. The game is well past it's prime. I mean seriously, you guys just lost Leurocian, again, for the second time, this time to the TOR team. Compounding the fact take a look at the development team list compared to KR and SA. You will see a very sharp contrast. I would say the game is hemorhaging subscriptions, but there isn't anything left to hemhorage anymore.

    I came back over here when I got an email saying my account was reactivated and I took a look around, and all I can do is guffaw at the crap I see now. The huge step backwards the UO graphics took si the same ginormic step it took with the AoS update to the game, so now you have high resolution models with crappy 16 bit terrain and artwork. Same **** different goddamn day.

    It startles me tremendously, but there really isn't much left to hold onto. A true Ultima Online 2 or just call it Ultima Online Remake would probably rock the living hell out of the gaming world in a great way, but the only thing killing that is a reluctant player base, as always, and the fact the devs either are forced to or just flat out cave into the dwindling playerbase here.
     
  27. SUPRsalad

    SUPRsalad Guest

    I disagree..
    2d ftw. . Where has your nostalgia gone? Stop being wieners. The only thing wrong with uo is that nobody plays it. . . Nobody plays it because of cynics that think everything needs to be all 3d and radical like a 90's toothpaste commercial.. Fine, make another one.. Steal back some players from wow and other crappy games that make me feel like a tool.. Ill still be here. Winning at life..
     
  28. hawkeye_pike

    hawkeye_pike Babbling Loonie
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    Good article!
    What many of the Stratics readers fail to grasp when they say "the marjority wants..." is that they always speak of the majority of current players, who play this game like a SIMS game, cause they got used to it that way. However, NEW CUSTOMERS is a key issue, and in order to acquire those, even nifty expansions like Stygian Abyss won't help much.
    I agree that the game would need a complete overhaul, considering the graphics engine and also technical features (like PvP, monster AI etc.). The game DOES NOT need more landmasses, dungeons and creatures.

    UO is one of the best games on the market, and it has great potential to triple its subscriptions if it someone would overhaul it in the right way, without destroying its original character.
     
  29. SUPRsalad

    SUPRsalad Guest

    yll never sell me on a 90's looking 3d engine..
     
  30. maroite

    maroite Guest

    I don't mind 2d, but what I do mind is 12 year old graphics, limited graphic options, poorly made hot keying/user interface.

    UO could be redone, in the same style, and probably attract a lot of people. Honestly, the game probably hasn't progressed much because the majority of its players are anti-change.

    800x600 resolution is AWEFUL, nostalgic or not.

    Also, I started playing in Dec of 1997. BEFORE Age of Crap aka AoS and Ren. THOSE were the true golden days of UO, but I am in a way glad the game changed. But to me, the game will never be the same. Ever. Realizing this, I welcome changes.

    I am a firm believer that if you make the game more attractive, and more streamlined, but keep the core game mechanics, people will come to play with a little marketing push.

    Unfortunately, it seems as if EA has put UO in the closet. Via the puzzle box shut down delay. . .

    It doesn't have to be 3D to be attractive or attract people. Just look at D3. Sure, it is "3D" but it utilizes the same basic style of UO. Updating the graphics to that level would greatly enhance the desire to play and try UO by people.

    The biggest problem preventing this from happening are people who REFUSE to change from the 12 year old 2d graphics stuck in 800x600 resolution.

    Maybe they should release UO for the DSi, it could probably play it. I wouldn't complain either, being able to play UO anywhere I go? AWESOME!
     
  31. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
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    It could. It could also crash and burn by splitting to player base while failing to attract new customers, leaving neither version profitable.

    Most new MMOs fail. I'm not an expert at the business of running one of these games, so I don't know one way or the other what the best choice for EA is ... but it makes me nervous when I see people advocating business plans based on wild speculation.
     
  32. Miriandel

    Miriandel Seasoned Veteran
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    I played pretty much all MMORPGs since UO in 1997.
    I have 5 level 80 characters on WoW. I don't play them anymore, I came back to UO.

    Nothing comes close to UO because of:

    Housing. This is what makes UO, we LIVE in this world, we don't just pass by.
    Skill system. Leveling is for ******* (and I leveled thousands of levels over the games).
    Sandbox. Want to be a treasure hunter? Be one. Want to dig ore? Grab a shovel. Want to tame dragons? ROAAAAAR

    And, of course, no forced grouping, while that have changed somewhat, which is not surprizing since the game is now supported by forced-grouping-minded folks.
     
  33. hawkeye_pike

    hawkeye_pike Babbling Loonie
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    I didn't post a business plan, nor advocate one. I posted a wild speculation that reflects my personal opinion.
     
  34. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
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    I should probably learn to be less judgmental given how often I throw my 2 cents around.
     
  35. Coldren

    Coldren Sage
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    At first I wasn't a fan of the idea when it came out..

    But then I took the time to read the stories and lore they had written to explain it that used to be on the UO2 site.... It was fantastic, and sadly, nowhere to be found on the web anymore.

    A shame. Really good stories.
     
  36. Silverbird

    Silverbird Slightly Crazed
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    Anyone else noticed another interesting point in that article?
    Rank 1 and two of that review are going to EA/Mythic. So there is a lot potential (in licenses) for a new game at Mythic.
     
  37. Mook Chessy

    Mook Chessy Certifiable
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    As a father of two kids (4, 8) I spend alot of time in stores like Game Stop (used Wii games)

    As a 12++ UO player I always look for at least one copy of Ultima for sale, no luck!

    The fact is that you cannot get new players when the game is not on a shelf!!

    It has been my experience that the most new players to UO over the last few years are WOW players that came over to UO with returning players (and they love uo!)

    As long as EA makes $ we are fine, the second it stops, well that is when I'll start reading about new and different games!!

    Side note...just hit two years on Siege and loving it!!
     
  38. onthefifty

    onthefifty Guest

    all i can say to this article is watch out what you wish for.

    this game is 12 years old. in the genre of MMO's it is truly one of a kind.

    It has a mature playing base. i mean this in economic terms. it had a successful launch with big numbers of people playing (i didnt play at the launch but am going by what some of the veterans have stated) the playing base generally leveled off and plus or minus a players coming and going has pretty much matured from a core playing base standpoint. i don't want to argue as to why it did so as this has been discussed ad nauseum.

    point is there is a core market for this game now.

    it is also profitable.

    It has also just undergone imho, a pretty good expansion with a lot of new content and a new learning curve as to how it all fits in.

    the management team has been much more open in seeking player feedback in recent years.

    of course there are things that can be improved upon, but that is true of anything in life.

    a retorical question though. suppose they did something to the game that attracted thousands of new players. say retro is cool or they made an ultima movie starring meghan fox. would anyone really want to see that... not ms. fox but 1000's of new players.

    sometimes be careful what u wish for is all i'm saying

    would love to see ms. fox in an ultima movie...
     
  39. Aurelius

    Aurelius Babbling Loonie
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    You know, possibly the silliest argument given for UO not being "updated to modern technology" (as far as I can tell from that article, all he wants is prettier graphics, which is hardly a cutting edge use of new technology, but still..)' is 'it's all you old timers holding it back'...

    Utter bull. If EA thought there was a shedload of profit to be made from a new, revamped, completely redesigned UO, guess what - they'd make one. They like making lots of money. It's why they are there.

    If they thought it was going to be such a huge winner, the supposed "fact" that a proportion of the existing playerbase would not migrate onto it would not for one second stop the profit-driven bits of the company telling the rest "we want one, and we want one NOW". Those who didn't want to go along with the new way would be considered acceptable losses. This may come as a shock, but no matter how big the egos of some of us Stratics posters might be, we don't decide EA policy. They have clearly decided some level of 'updating', keeping the existing playerbase, plus attracting some new blood (or returning old blood) is a good enough way for them to go for now.

    Seems unlikely the existing version - supposedly poor old "out of date" limping along wheezing and gasping thing that some regard it as - is not making EA/Mythic quite a bit of profit. There's no actual proof of this "market demand" people keep claiming is there for a 3d all-singing/all-dancing star studded remake (yes, I know their own opinions are dear to posters, and based on heartfelt personal angst - but that's not proof of a damn thing apart from it's what the poster and some of their family/friends/guildmates may think). EA's market analysis is not saying "we must do this to make a load of cash", so it isn't going to happen. When they are sure there's a big enough market to justify the work, they will do it. And incidentally, they'll do it whether we like it or not. That's exactly how much "influence" these die-hard old technology luddites "holding back" anything have on the process....

    Until then, let's stick with playing the best game there is, and stop fretting about what it might be like if it looked like/played like/smelled like or any other pointless comparison with any other title. When they reckon it's profitable enough, we'll see a fully cinematic overhaul.

    Until then, all we do in these sorts of conversations is compare UO to games with less depth, less content, poorer community, no 'history' and less diversity of playstyle, and go "but it's not pretty like they are.." :wall:
     
  40. Drawde2

    Drawde2 Guest

    A few years ago, the devs of the time agreed that the game needed to be redone. All those exploits that people complain about? Extremely hard to fix with the current client (2D), but possible in a new client. That's what KR was supposed to be, and SA. Except some of the players complained about every change made.

    The original plan for SA was to be accessed by the SA client only, and to slowly phase out 2D. But too many players said they'd quit if that happened. And then those same players complained about there being fewer bug and exploit fixes in the game, since now they have to work on TWO clients at once, one of which wasn't designed to be easily fixed.

    Go figure.
     
  41. To everyone "Demanding" UO change graphics and End up like a Canned WoW or WH.

    Solution:


    EA/Mythic- Produce 5,000 Copies of UO (2D & SA OPTION) Sell for $39.99, and put them into "markets" that would sell (Im sure you have the data).

    That would shut alot of mouths when 5,000 people would try UO.

    I truly think that ALOT of MMO players dont even know what UO is. I Think alot of them would grasp the game and love it.

    Long story short a few years of playing UO & WoW back to back, i told some friends about UO "Suprise they have never heard of it" Well today they are still playing, 3 years later, they will never go back to WoW.
     
  42. ColterDC

    ColterDC Visitor

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    QFT

    What most of these tools fail to realize is that UO has a horrible reputation in the gaming community. Anyone who does a little research will quickly discover that UO is a cess pool of scum, dominated by cheaters and that EA rarely enforces any of their rules.

    Fixing UO's reputation of being a cheater's paradise would do alot more than just turning it into another 3d game.
     
  43. LSRemy

    LSRemy Guest

    Interesting Article...My 2 cents. UO is perfect!

    I am a returning player of 6 years ago. I played multiple online games (the norm) and decided to come back to what (IMO) is the best still around. The unique design, the "here you go and make the world what you want of it" idea (sandbox) is amazing and utterly perfect for me. I do not want to be forced down a road, i do not want to have my hand held throught out the game, i love the 2D graphics (If i wanted top notch graphics i would play my 360 or PS3). This game appears so simple at first glance but it is incredibly deep and engaging. After years you will still be learning new stuff, and i love that. When ever someone asks me to explain it to them, i simply ask them not to ask.lol. I simply do not have the time. The Individulism that this game offers is awesome. Your actions have consequences, the world is HUGE. When i first logged in and began playing i was:

    1. Utterly lost, felt like someone had dropped me off in a foreign country
    2. Freighten out of my mind, not know what to do and how to do it.
    3. Amazed at how unbelievebly deep this game was. unlike anything ever before. i mean, become a cook? who in their right mind would do that? but guess what, it is fullfilling to become one because the game will make it worth while to become one!

    If a remake was to come, i would jump aboard but it better keep ALL of the mechanics.

    UO is not for everyone but it can be. People are turned away by the Graphics more so than anything. Let's be honest here, if UO had top notch graphics but kept the world as is it would be a huge success...but if you are in it for the graphics then its prob best that you do not try it. If you are in it for the adventure and everything else that is great about UO then welcome aboard.
     
  44. Beer_Cayse

    Beer_Cayse Guest

    nice writeup. I played DAoC and did beta "Trials of Atlantis", then left. Beta on AC, beta on UO3D, SE and recently SA.

    About the same time as M59 (Meridian 59) was out, Sierra tried one called The Realm. That was a serious flop - no one liked the perma-death of toons even back then. Lemme see, then there was Neocron, Lineage II and a few others that have been looked at by me.
     
  45. Velvathos

    Velvathos Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

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    Game developers have all tried to make games based off of what UO was, and many times, they have failed.. The whole "If someone made a MMO with UO's play experience, but was modern, I'd be there in a heartbeat" it is bull.. There is plenty of games with the same diversity, open worlds, no leveling, real-time combat, housing you name it.. Here I will give off a few games..

    www.mortalonline.com

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzPJ7Vef_FY

    www.darkfallonline.com

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1k3hsv0tfU

    www.dawntide.net

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm4poHqjY0

    www.linkrealms.com

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9L1uHJHaX0

    NOTE: Only one of these games is actually released, so we will have to wait and see how the other three turn out..
     
  46. Kaleb

    Kaleb Lore Master
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    I dont like the article. UO has the best gameplay out of every MMO on the market that is why after 12 years it still makes a profit. Most people born before 1990 are more into gameplay vs graphics, graphics dont make a game in fact for a 2d game I think the graphics are fine. the isometric view is great, KR sucked horribly. I remember when UO2 and UOx were in development the majority of players did not want to play a 1st person UO, and the feelings are still there. there were 1000's of posts where people said they would not leave old UO for a new UO. You're going to have to accept every game out has cheats, scripts, dupes. I found a dupe in WOW using the auction house by complete accident I was able to dupe the hell out of resources, blue items, purple items it was fixed in a couple days but I was able to make a killing in that short time. Sure there are games out with PB type systems but from my understanding the devs have to know about the program for it to be picked up, there are too many smart programmers out there that can write a new program and be virtually undetected.

    Best way to solve cheats is for the MMO company's to go out and sue the people who sell gold items for RL cash, Brokers sellers are the sole reason behind the need to dupe, script. They need to go after the guy who writes the famous scripting program sue him onto the streets, that guy alone has cost EA/UO millions throughout the years due to lost subs and reputation. Make them all an example of what could happen.