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Goodman's Rune Library is not accepting Donations...

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Andrasta, Jan 27, 2013.

  1. Andrasta

    Andrasta Goodman's Rune Library
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    Please be aware that Goodman's Rune Library on the Atlantic Shard is not accepting Donations of any kind other than Soulstones and related items for the Soulstone Project and old runebooks. Donations are only accepted by mailbox on either the main Zento Library or the GRL Portal next door.

    Someone trying to represent themselves as Goodman or his son and or relative has been trying to solicit donations in the Library's name. This person is luring new players and taking them to Felucca to kill and loot them. Do not fall for these attempts to defraud and steal in Goodman's name.

    Please note that real representatives of the library are in the Guild, Goodman's Rune Library with the tag [GRL.] Note the period after the letters. Goodman's Rune Library the Guild is not accepting new members nor will it ever be recruiting.

    Goodman's Rune Library is a fully funded project from vets that knew and cared about him and the library does not need gold or items.

    If you have any further questions regarding this manner please pm me on this board or email me at [email protected]

    Thank you,
    Andrasta
    Goodman's Rune Library [GRL.]
     
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  2. startle

    startle Siege... Where the fun begins.
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    Don't play Atlantic much, but have chars there. Would love to see the Library. What are the coords?
     
  3. Taylor

    Taylor Former Stratics CEO (2011-2014)
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    38.03N 38.27W, Makoto-Jima
     
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  4. Andrasta

    Andrasta Goodman's Rune Library
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    The Library is located on the North East road in Zento just as you come out of the Makuto Gate.

    You will see GRL on the roof in the map. Also across the road is the GRL portal which will take you to many of the best establishments on Atlantic.

    There is also a Memorial Library on Magincia Beach Trammel held by us as well.
     
  5. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Andrasta that's terrible that someone would do that. But wonderful of you to post and make people aware of the scam. Scammers like that ought to be Perma banned.
     
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  6. Andrasta

    Andrasta Goodman's Rune Library
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    Thank you MalagAste. It's incredibly disrespectful.

    What really upsets me is this person has been operating for months on Atlantic New Haven and apparently no one has any recourse.

    No GM will do anything. I would write Mesanna myself but I am told she will do nothing.

    It's ok to have this vulture prey on new people?. Is this really what we want? No protection for players starting out?

    Yes a lot of us started out and learned the hard way including me but we need every new player we can get these days.

    This person should not be included in a new Players' experience.

    There are several vets and guilds who have been trying to deal with him/her and warn people and are gathering his/her names and houses.

    Warning other people is about all we can do while an unknown percentage of new players get upset and quit because of these incidents.

    Pretty sad really.
     
    #6 Andrasta, Jan 28, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2013
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  7. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    That's precisely what I've been saying for YEARS! EA needs to adopt a ZERO tolerance policy on this creeps before they drive away players. How many times I've read or been told about folk leaving because of scammers and jerks like that I can't even begin to count..... not to mention vets who have left after being hacked or scammed... Cheated.... I'm really upset by it and can't understand why EA does NOTHING. Yes people should be careful..... and not trust jerks...... but a LARGE majority of other game companies not only go after the scammer but they return the stuff to the victim.
     
  8. Lord Nabin

    Lord Nabin High Council Sage - Greater Sosaria
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    While it does frustrate the community that these scammers, cheats, hackers and the like exist. They are part of our community. I don't think it's fair to hold EA accountable for not providing us a utopia society to play in.

    We can not even accomplish that on our own in real life.

    I have seen Ea take action on "These Creeps" when things get very out of hand. In the end common sense and communication is what prevails against these types of people and situations.

    We do need to take responsibility for our own community and quit putting that responsibility off onto other people.
     
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  9. Lythos-

    Lythos- Lore Keeper
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    Goodman was a true legend and vital player for Atlantic. He truely inspired other players to follow his path in showing others the way through public rune libraries. If it weren't for that mag beach library (which got pretty darn crowded back in the day!) a lot of us would have never seen half of UO. I do believe i STILL have runebooks from the Morley's Scribe vendor that stood on the porch of that villa.

    While it sucks that there are dishonest players that want to tarnish such a great name as Goodman, i have to agree with Nabin. OSI/EA/Mythic whatever they're calling themselves this year should not be held responsible for players misjudgement of trust wether new or old. Some things just fall into the players responsibility themselves. Informing the public of a scammer is the right step.
     
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  10. Lord Lew

    Lord Lew Lore Keeper
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    Not Fair? How so? These people exist simply due to conditions created that allow them to scam, cheat, hack. To create such a place as New Haven where new players can cut their teeth, and then allow scum like this take advantage of them!!! You can be damn sure I for one will place the blame squarely at the feet of the developers.

    I do not come here to compare this life with my real life, I come to escape and enjoy my fantasy.

    Please explain how you sir would begin to as you say "take responsibility", enlighten me on the way you would do this. Given that there is literally no way to punish such people if they refuse to enter your gate to Fel, and even if they do, they risk nothing in death! Please open my eyes with your profound wisdom on the subject.
     
  11. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    This kind of behavior makes me sick.
     
  12. Lord Nabin

    Lord Nabin High Council Sage - Greater Sosaria
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    I think the best solution for yourself if the above statement is true, would be to engage in a game that does not have a community for you to interact with and deal with.

    Not trying to be harsh and I always hate seeing people leave but , your expectations do not seem to be in line with the reality of the situation you are currently playing in.

    You want to engage in a fantasy sandbox setting with real live people who have issues, drama, friendships, enemies, the ability to be good or evil and you want no negative drama effecting your game play from the real world.

    It just doesn't work that way friend. Yes it is not real life. Yes you still will need to deal with real life like issues and people.
     
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  13. Hannes Erich

    Hannes Erich Seasoned Veteran
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    The first time Richard "Lord British" Garriott himself answered a page in Ultima Online concerning a repeat thief and killer, he teleported the thief to jail, and explained that he would be banned if he continued such devious behavior. But the thief retorted that it was Richard Garriott who created a world in which such play styles were possible, and then he demanded that Garriott cease harassing him for merely playing one of many possible roles in Ultima Online.

    Lord British considered the man's words, and realized the thief had won the argument fair and square. As a compromise, though, he did teleport the thief far to the other side of the world from the victim who he had repeatedly attacked that day, and warned him never to attack that person again. He was still the King, after all.

    In the following years, the devs worked to disincentivize thieving and scamming, as it had never been intended to be near to the heart and spirit of the Ultima experience; but to do away with it entirely would have been an even graver disservice, as that would have been an attack on personal freedoms inherent to the sandbox, rather than to the thieves themselves. I've always considered this a welcome aberration, because I know that games like Eve Online, where sociopathic mercenaries and scammers are featured prominently and positively in the games advertisements, are much more representative of the sandbox concept. Before Ultima Online was released, Lord British and company expected the virtuous players to police the criminal elements of Britannia. But this was the first real MMORPG, the Wild West. It was to their shock and surprise that when the gates opened, the criminal element immediately set about killing everything in sight, including each other, as well as those few policemen by comparison.

    More policemen came, with time; even those who never planned on patrolling for bands of Reds saw the need to protect their communities. I was among those. And just like in real life, we never outnumbered the Reds. But we learned to put up a good fight, and when we chased them off a victim here and there, we chalked those up to good days. Later, much later, we would learn to our own shock and surprise that it was not our tight-knit communities who had given birth to the Reds, but it was the Reds who had caused our tight-knit communities to exist. Born from necessity.

    The spell that created Trammel separated us from direct combative contact with the worst monsters in the game--other people--but it was never designed, nor could it have been, to separate us from all forms of contact with them. And this here is the most important paragraph in my reply.

    A true sandbox will always stand a fair chance of challenging one's tolerance for diverse forms of game play on any given day, and Ultima Online is among the finest sandboxes.

    I find this behavior despicable as well, but you must realize that you are sharing this fantasy land with other real people, with their own individual fantasies--which you might not care to know about in detail. There will be days when a GM or dev appears to save you from the bad guy. Our history is sprinkled with just enough of these days to give us an often cruel hopefulness. In the greater scheme of things, these are anomalous events. In practice, demanding their occurrence turns out to be not much different than demanding some rain. Rather than worry yourself over how much like the real world Britannia is behaving today, it is far more relevant perhaps to consider how badly the average Britannian character (not player) would prefer to live in our real world over their own, if they could only escape their nightmarish reality.

    Of course, don't ever let this detract or distract you from the beauty and wonder and just plain fun to be found in Ultima Online. But that is for another topic, and one that many posts and threads and books could be written about.
     
    #13 Hannes Erich, Jan 29, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2013
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  14. Lord Lew

    Lord Lew Lore Keeper
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    Very well written, but your main point is the basic problem. Per-tram we were able to police ourselves as we saw fit, post tram all we can do is yell into the wind. Long gone are the bounty boards, and the claiming of heads, the kill on sight option is gone. In an era of empty shards, and dwindling overall population, there needs to be an avenue to address this problem.

    This scum has been harassing young players, young player guilds (set up to help new players and start them off in our lands to help rebuild our player base), and now old returning vets using an ageless name of a respected Atlantic citizen that has left both worlds for good. Yes we can pass his names among ourselves in an attempt to mitigate the issue, but lack the ability to do more.

    And Lord Nabin, you still have not answered my question, just gave an opinion. I'm a little confused as to why a person vested in keeping a player base of customers would support a playstyle that would run off new customers. Is this not detrimental to your bottom line?

    How about we all brainstorm on how to deal with this person and stop arguing for his rite to exist. I concede that its a sandbox, but in need of an area with clean sand.
     
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  15. Hannes Erich

    Hannes Erich Seasoned Veteran
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    My main point is not the basic problem, per say, but our basic dilemma. You must not confuse to the two. The former presupposes a game design flaw, while the latter describes an obstacle over which we should find our way.

    If this is a sandbox, then it is up to us to create areas for various social functions. And then find appropriate ways to react when our rules are broken. There's a reason why sociologists in the late nineties considered Ultima Online to be one of the grandest experiments in human interaction and cooperation, one in which players failed each other in an amazing variety of ways, to say nothing of the game mechanics failing the players (which was rarely as spectacular and harmful).

    What I will concede to you in turn, however, is that the devs perhaps invited your criticisms and general dissatisfaction upon themselves when they created Trammel. While I've grown fond of Trammel, and you won't see me pining for yesteryear, I won't deny that it obsoleted the necessity for tightly knit in-game communities, turning them instead into preferences--a much weaker glue, we discovered, as we watched the majority of player-run villages crumble and evaporate in the wake of Trammel. Trammel was both the beginning of an era, and the end of one, in a sense that I don't think the devs had planned for or intended. It was not just an aberration in the sand box, but an entire set of rules that players were physically incapable of not following while visiting there.

    Slippery slope, unintended consequences, an area of clean sand. For all the joy it's brought me, all of these things can describe what Trammel also turned out to be.

    You're not asking for clean sand, Lord Lew, you're asking for EVEN CLEANER sand.
     
    #15 Hannes Erich, Jan 29, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2013
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  16. Lord Lew

    Lord Lew Lore Keeper
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    Not really sure how to answer your question about timing, time is subjective so I will leave it alone.

    Thank you for your history lessons, they are on point. You did leave out the advent of Haven, and the abuses of that system, and did not address counselors and seers, both with equally sad endings. But none of this helps the current state of UO, nor does it address a way to counter ths persons attacks on the new player base of our game.

    Thanks for the responses, it's refreshing to read well thought out posts.
     
  17. Hannes Erich

    Hannes Erich Seasoned Veteran
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    I actually deleted the sentence about timing, much for the reason you pointed out a moment later.

    But also because rereading my post gave me a wonderful idea (let's not be presumptuous, Hannes) for a set of suggestions for Trammel. Suggestions that would make Trammel feel even more like Trammel ("Why not?"), while also reincentivizing play in Felucca ("Heck yeah!"). Unfortunately, I'm out of time for now, and I need some time to think about this anyway.
     
    #17 Hannes Erich, Jan 29, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2013
  18. Lord Lew

    Lord Lew Lore Keeper
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    Lol, I'd just like to see something in place to protect new and returning players in haven. Knowing that such activity exists now, then, and will continue is a fact. But to do this as a player just starts is harmful to the entire game. We need fresh players to keep the wheels turning. Ergo we need a way to deal with people like this, if only on that one island. He seems to live there, at least I've not seen him outside of haven.
     
  19. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Complete myth.

    Player policing of other players meant nothing when the anti-social types were better-organized (it's a lot easier to get people together for greed, debasement, evil, and selfishness than it is for good) and more numerous. The latter doesn't mean more numerous overall, by a long shot. It means that the evil-doers, of all stripes, by definition know when they're striking and the rest of us don't, and thus can easily overwhelm us on that particular occasion.

    We also very much have a pro-bully culture. There are those on boards who deride as "vigilantes" even those who would engage in the shocking activity of paging on a scripter, let alone one who stands up to a Player Killer or an impersonator. Anti-PKs pre-Trammel faced similar social penalties for doing the right thing.

    All that goes on now is that the thief, would-be house-looter, or impersonator can't also get his 20 friends together and harm you in other ways as well.

    I threw out my rose-colored lenses long ago, I recommend all others do the same. We have way more history in this game with Trammel than without, and there's excellent reasons for that.

    -Galen's player
     
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  20. Hannes Erich

    Hannes Erich Seasoned Veteran
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    For some immediate suggested fixes, no red moongates on New Haven allowed by the game, and no passage of new players through red moongates allowed by the game. This latter limitation should be tied to a player's [young player] status, not account age, as some new players will be coming to UO for all the great PvP they've heard about. However, [young player] should not be removable during an account's first week of play; and a brief "heart-to-heart" about the consequences of removing the tag and/or visiting Felucca should also be included in the new player experience/tutorial.

    If a new player manages to get through that controlled nigh-themepark ride of safety and still refuses to read any dialogue boxes, heed any warnings, or exercise the slightest caution, then I think we can consider them to be in need of a more exacting form of lesson.

    As far as stopping scammers from typing scammy things in chat, I'm afraid we're not at that level of technological prowess yet, and without an army of competent GMs (not going to happen in most new MMOs, let alone this one), that would be the only alternative. And this is while forgetting for a moment that this may not even be completely desirable in a sandbox. I say "completely" because many of us, I think, would tolerate degrees of thievery in a game that is designed to allow such roles.

    We, all of us, will never agree about the degrees, of course.
     
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  21. Kayne.

    Kayne. Journeyman
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    The game is made to be a sandbox.
    If people want to scam and cheat, then people need to be more aware/resourceful. There's at least 4 relatively active Uo Forums. search them for information on scammers and most have a list of people that are untrustworthy etc.

    It's not EAs fault.
     
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  22. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    I'm sorry but when other games actually go out of their way to make your experience a good one and help you by taking things away from the scammer and returning it to the rightful person and do NOT allow such behavior then I have to say it's beyond time that UO does it.... and to be honest other EA games do it.

    Only UO treats it's players so poorly. And while it may not be EA's "fault" ..... it is their responsibility to provide a good gaming environment.... That IS what we pay for.

    But by all means they should go right on ahead treating us like **** and then wonder why they don't have jobs because UO folds... because players go somewhere else where they are treated FAR better....
     
    #22 MalagAste, Jan 29, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2013
  23. Sauteed Onion

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    Big L.N. makes a good point here.
    Somewhere on some forgotten corner of the almost semi relevant internetz, somebody tried to tell me I was stupid if I thought The Petrified Bones of EM Bennu were rare, cause they had a stack of them they got from that event. I lol'd at them. They are probably the same person stooping to this. Also; probably the same guy telling me how good at pvp they were as I was talking to their ghost in the middle of solo'ing Deceit spawn.(and I suck at pvp). Dumb asses all over man. The people that matter know the real Goodman could never do this. Those that tarnish his name will find some other way of being douches once ousted.
     
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