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Great Idea. This was GIVEN TO TAG

Discussion in 'UHall' started by RavenWinterHawk, Aug 4, 2008.

  1. I think i have a great idea.

    When a runic hammer is made or anything of that nature it gets a tag


    A valorite hammer
    "awarded to Raven on 8/8/08"

    it can still be vended and traded but i creates a tag that is sort of unique or aleast implies information people could use.

    Any thoughts.
     
  2. Speetz13

    Speetz13 Guest

    This would be even better if it had a time too. I mean this is an item that only appears like once a year or somethin crazy right? A huge line of text under it isn't so bad...Obviously could use the same idea for the other rare items and BOD rewards too. I think it should deffinately be one of MANY things that should apparentley be implemented, but good gosh dern thinkin!!

    Edit: By time i meant like "8/8/08 at 5:53 PM SRV" SRV being server time.
     
  3. Halister Marner

    Halister Marner Lore Master
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    That's actually a really good idea.
     
  4. Crysta

    Crysta Babbling Loonie
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    What exactly would that do? It isn't like it could be used to track anyone, and you could always make new characters with different names on trial accounts to hand them in (or dupe them, given the obvious intent here).
     
  5. Yep

    A dark orange halloween skull
    "awarded to raven on 10.31.08"


    I mean i think this idea
    establishes a means for...

    event and rare collectors to have fun
    and merchants and buyers to feel safer
    and legit getters of stuff to profit fairly
     
  6. Crysta

    Crysta Babbling Loonie
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    But they would just be FEELING safer.. it wouldn't actually do anything to MAKE it safer.

    In fact, since we don't have unique character names, it would make it LESS safe as anyone could take a respected characters' name and use it.
     
  7. Right
    but it would slow them down. Its not perfect.
    But its an improvement.
    making different players over and over is much slower and tedious

    Then dropping a bod every 8 seconds.

    and deleting and starting 100 charactures might be something noticed by EA easier then how its done now.
     
  8. No no
    not the name as in a trusted player.

    its the combo of the name and date.

    Vendor has 5 valorites all by "awarded to raven on 8-8-08"
    A little more info for the buyer.
     
  9. Azazel of LA

    Azazel of LA Guest

    I think its a good idea. On a small server like LA I would know if it was made by someone I trust like Lord Blazehammer , that its a good chance it wasnt duped because I know him and know he has a large collection of Bods. But if all of a sudden I see 10 hammers on LA by someone I never heard of before that most likely its from someone shady and I should stay away. Im all for it ,send it in to the dev team as a suggestion.
     
  10. Speetz13

    Speetz13 Guest

    Exactly. This is so buyers can tell if somethin is duped when they see that more than once, which would be hard for dupers to work around. It would be hard for them to make multiples considering they would have to use a different character once a day, and even then it would be easy to see someone that has some that say "Raven on 8/8/08" "Raven on 8/9/08" etc etc.

    Ok minimal sleep is kickin in. Someone else explain why this would be helpful, not nessecarily by itself, but it conjunction with other precautions.
     
  11. Halister Marner

    Halister Marner Lore Master
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    I can think of ways around it too, but attaching name/date and character ID would be a huge, huge improvement.

    It basically eliminates duping the hammers themselves without being instantly recognized, they'd have to dupe the BODS, and even then it adds a better way to recognize, and it altogether eliminates duping heartwood items without being recognized.
     
  12. Not as a prevention but as info for us and a way to make it harder for them.

    Lets add to it.
     
  13. RoycroftLS

    RoycroftLS Guest

    It's not a bad idea... but it's already been established that dupers dupe the BODs, not the runics themselves... So they would turn them in on a bunch of different characters (and name the toons after reputable crafters on the shard), and you'd have an influx of hammers with different names but similar dates.

    Which isn't much different to how it was recently... In a short period of time, way more hammers appeared than should ever been possible to obtain, but people bought them anyway.

    Or the dupers would burn the hammers on different characters and sell the armor pieces. The tags wouldn't be very useful in that case either.
     
  14. Yalp

    Yalp Guest

    Good idea! You know if you see more than one there's duping going on. Innocent players would be more able to identify items. You as a buyer have the option of not buying it if it's from someone you don't know. I'm sure it would slow down the duping.. maybe never able to stop it completely.. but hell....it's a great start!

    So good on many fronts!

    Yalpers!
     
  15. Speetz13

    Speetz13 Guest

    Originally Posted by RoycroftLS View Post
    It's not a bad idea... but it's already been established that dupers dupe the BODs, not the runics themselves... So they would turn them in on a bunch of different characters (and name the toons after reputable crafters on the shard), and you'd have an influx of hammers with different names but similar dates.

    But think about it, they have to turn in the BODs to get the hammers. The tag would then say the same date for the hammers, or dates near eachother, or in sequence. At the very least this would make it very much more of an inconvenience to dupers, and tho it is not a solution, it is deffinately a reinforcement at it's finest. And like other said if it was implemented on other rares, it would have a much better affect.
     
  16. Halister Marner

    Halister Marner Lore Master
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    Why not assign the character name and ID to the BOD itself, so when the hammer is claimed, it uses the value from the BOD itself and not the hammer.

    :thumbsup:
     
  17. Yalp

    Yalp Guest



    They dupe BODS? I had no idea what so ever. I thought they duped the item itself! Is this true or is this just your assumption?

    Well then number the bods too! I know if I saw a runic with my Legendary Smith's name on it floating on a vendor.. I'd be paging a GM instantly and not leaving till they worked it out!


    LORD Yalp of Zento, CTDM
     
  18. burnttrees

    burnttrees Guest

    the idea sounds great but i would only add one more piece of info along with char name and date that would be the npc who handed it out each one prob has some line of code that would show to the server who he is this translates to a name on our end this would most likely glitch and not show at all on a duped item as it would be creating a new item id number and trying to show the npc string would return either a cliloc error or nothing at all

    this would admittedly be more use to the dev team for tracking but could also be shown to the players so they as well could see the vendors name as a kind of guarantee it was actually handed out

    edit: i realised this would only work for runics and things handed out by npc's
     
  19. Lady_Mina

    Lady_Mina Guest

    and to make it more secure...chars without tailoring/backsmith skill can't hand in tailor/smith bods...

    Character that are not 15 days old cannot collect or give in tailor/smith bods.
     
  20. Yalp

    Yalp Guest

    2 more good ideas! and that is not even mentioning an actual fix to the ability to dupe!

    Yalpers!
     
  21. Thats brilliant
    There you go.

    Wouldnt hurt the common player and now the duper would need to make a gm smith or tailor.
     
  22. Sarphus

    Sarphus Guest

    Until a duper makes a char named lord Blazehammer and proceeds with his duping...

    I agree with Christa that it needs something more to be real security. Perhaps it would list the maker's name and their ID#
     
  23. You know for high end rewards... verite valorite...

    Was so wrong with only allowing 1 turn in per week per account for the high end bods.

    Seriously.

    Things to slow down the duper.
     
  24. Lady_Mina

    Lady_Mina Guest

    I know...I should be in the dev theam..

    2nd great idea today...

    My other 'solution' to the lack of red wandering healers was praised aswell.
     
  25. Lady_Mina

    Lady_Mina Guest

    I think the fact that the duper need to get decent tailoring/blacksmith skill first and can't use a trail account...will slow them down dramaticly.

    When they have to start risking their trusted accounts...when they recieve runic that bare the mark off a character on their trusted account..don't think they'll be duping those items soon.
     
  26. Lord Richard

    Lord Richard Guest

    I don't want to **** in your cornflakes, but if someone is smart enough to get into the server and dupe an item, wouldn't you think they could remove the tag [prop] as well?
     
  27. RoycroftLS

    RoycroftLS Guest

    If they made it so only players with the required skill to complete a certain bod could turn in such a bod, that would put the minimum tailoring needed to get a barbed kit at about 70, and the minimum blacksmithy needed to get a val hammer at around 100. Both seem reasonable to me.

    I don't have any problems with restricting trial accounts in that fashion. They aren't paying for the game yet, why should they have access to all the features?
     
  28. Speetz13

    Speetz13 Guest

    No. Being frank really, but duping doesn't take much intelligence really, just internet access and the right search syntax. Any one tech in here could tell you how to dupe something after doing a little research, and you don't have to "get into" the server. It just doesn't work like that. And there is no way someone could change that tag, as far as i know. It would probably take a hell of a lot to do it, and it wouldn't be worth the hours to change 1000's and 1000's of tags. I'm just saying getting "into" a server is very hard. Manipulating the server through game mechanics that have bugs is easy. It's pretty hard to bug a tag, and if they did, EA and everyone would know....cuz...it's a ...tag. You know what I'm saying?

    "Oh hey thay rare/BOD/runic doesn't have a tag... Must be some crazy rare one?"

    I'm not trying to be an jerk if that's what i'm coming across as. It's just not that easy to do something like that, that's directly manipulating code.

    NOW this IS simply my limited understanding of scripts and coding, and computers in general. If i'm wrong someone let me kno, and make me look like a fool, I look good in my natural state...
     
  29. Halister Marner

    Halister Marner Lore Master
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    They don't get into the server, its using game mechanics to duplicate something. For example, purely hypothetical, you go to the bank, put a valorite runic hammer in your bank box, spin around seven times while dragging a bagball, while begging a mongbat, then open your bank box, and you suddenly dupe your valorite hammer due to a flaw in game mechanics (and in the case of that example - sanity).

    There's no hackings into the server, so this solution is very good for detection, for both players and devs.
     
  30. Yalp

    Yalp Guest

    All those ideas have the assumption that someone at EA will be able to pick up the dupe bug fairly quickly before it gets out of hand. It doesn't seem like any solution is a one time thing.. apply and let dry.. type of fix. Which, I admit, is a huge assumption on my part!

    Yalpers.
     
  31. Speetz13

    Speetz13 Guest

    Well i think these ideas on this thread are a few things that are very easily implemented, especially the trial accounts thing. (Isn't it funny how everyone spells it "trail" instead of correctlly? lol...Anyway) So yes these are some apply and let dry ideas, but really they are good ones, and could really reinforce things. Besides, from past experience, i guess apply and let dry is what Uo's team has the funding for... Not that i entirely blame them or anything...

    *Grabs my Blaze and looks menacingly at EA...*
     
  32. RoycroftLS

    RoycroftLS Guest

    I'd like to think that the devs aren't naive, and if such a way of tagging and tracking items was possible on the server (even if it wasn't visible to the player), they would have gone about implementing it.

    The problem is that portions of the game code are over a decade old, and have been patched/modified/remodified so many times by so many different programmers that it's probably very difficult to decipher nowadays. It's part of the reason why there are frequently unintended features when a publish is released.

    So while having such a detection system would be part of an ideal solution, the devs probably don't have the manpower (or the patience) to implement it at the cost of everything else. Especially considering that most of the players-buying-mass-dupes problem can be resolved with increased prudence and responsibility by the players themselves.
     
  33. I dont think they could do that. A besides, then youd have a blank awarded too. Which would be a tip.

    Its one thing to dupe. Its another thing to manipulate the actual creation of something. Alter it.
     
  34. Radun

    Radun Guest

    how about they make it so if you dupe something you get instantly banned...
    or they could at least put a tag on every duped item that says 'duped'.
    i think thats the least they could do.
    what does everyone else think
     
  35. Kral

    Kral Guest

    Tracking UID in a database is unique for UO, due to the nature of the system.

    UID's (Unique Identifier) need to transfer between shards, and you need to insure unique part of UID stay unique when the transfer of the item is done.

    Also, when a UID item is consumed making other items, you need to track the usage of the item. Checks Runic etc.

    That way a duped item cannot simply be used quickly to make another item to erase the duping.


    In database terms you could do a UID trace like this (If you know RDMS and RDBMS design you will follow this)

    Entity One: dbo.ItemsTable
    Elements (Not all, just a short few)
    ItemID: UID
    ItemName
    etc...etc...

    Entity Two: dbo.ItemsTableTrackingTable
    Elements
    dbo.ItemsTable.ItemID
    dbo.TrackingID
    dbo.DateTimeStamp
    dbo.UserID


    Entity Three: dbo.TrackingTable
    TrackingID
    HistopricItemID

    dbo.ItemsTable is On to Many with dbo.ItemsTableTrackingTable
    dbo.ItemsTableTrackingTable is One to many with dbo.TrackingTable


    Obviously their are a lot of other entities and properties in the database, but this should give the idea.

    Using this you can capture and track the ID, and the history of the ID as the object transitions inside the game world.


    As a final note on the whole thread:

    Thank you Jeremy and the Dev team, most of us have been waiting for some action like this.

    Reading the threads over the last three days has been like watching one of those old Cops in LA shows where the cops get the bad guy and he starts with “I am innocent!” and over the next ten minutes more and more of the story unravels until the truth is finally out.
     
  36. Lady_Mina

    Lady_Mina Guest

    What would be tons better if they actualy fixed the bug wich people exploit to dupe items.

    Hopefully...THIS year.
     
  37. Speetz13

    Speetz13 Guest

    Hey Kral...

    What?

    Could you explain a little more in non-NNMDFSG language?

    I'm legitamtely interested in what you said just a wee bit lost.
     
  38. Azazel of LA

    Azazel of LA Guest

    Awsome idea!:thumbsup:
     
  39. Halister Marner

    Halister Marner Lore Master
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    The more I think about it, this idea could apply for most high end items, cinctures, artifacts, etc...

    It would also put some feeling of achievement into obtaining one of these items instead of buying them, as your characters name would be printed directly on the item, indicating you received it yourself.
     
  40. People could just sell the larges that yield a val hammer.

    People can keep the val hammer stocked bod books and turn like 5 in with 1 character and then delete the character. Or they can use a thieves kit and alternate their name, or they can cast spell to change their name.

    Speaking of which, I know they found turned in hammers ... I'm curious if EA banned anyone with a book of bods ready to be turned into val hammers, because thats the source of all the dupes.

    I like the idea alot though, just not sure that it would stop exploiters with the bod system. Right now EA should be reworking their database to instantly catch a duped item and delete duped and original.
     
  41. rajadeah

    rajadeah Guest

    Great idea would love to see them do this.
     
  42. Doomsday Dragon

    Doomsday Dragon Visitor

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    Here is a more interesting idea. What they should do is code in a hidden tag on the item. One that simple states the hammer an ID for the hammer and date created.

    This way they could simply delete all hammers at server up that have been duped daily. The server checks the hammers in the world looks for any with the same ID and them deletes any matching hammers.

    A cleaned dupe free server every day.
     
  43. Aurelius

    Aurelius Babbling Loonie
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    Good explanation - let's add something though. You can use the same search and identify system to build a tool that automatically deletes any other item that tries to claim an item ID already in existence. Hell, you can even make it blackhole the character with the dubious item, and auto page a GM to come investigate.....

    Needs time, development and effort? Yep - apparently though, whilst spending tens or hundreds of thousands on KR was worthwhile, fixing the dupes/cheat market was and is not. Easier to flail about banning people, making various hot air speeches about commitment to cleaning up the game and having zero tolerance for cheating, and then letting things go back to the usual state for a while until the next burst of hypocrisy and another ban-fest.

    I'm seriously upset about what's happening now - the EA/Mythic approach is to let a load of duped stuff remain on the servers for weeks and months, being traded on vendors or between players, accounts and shards, and only WAY too late leap in and ban people for having the stuff. Sure that gets some of the cheats - but not all, and also drags in too many other folks.

    If they were really serious about this, they'd be deleting duped stuff almost instantly - and not wittering on about 'we don't want to give people warnings we are onto them', if the items are getting automatically deleted very shortly after creation, there isn't a problem with someone wasting their time making the dupe.
     
  44. I AGREE.

    Lets say this idea stinks for dupers.

    How much fun would it be (game fun) to have the CRIMSON or ORNY awarded to you with your name on it.

    So I agree. Do it for that.
     
  45. gjohnson5

    gjohnson5 Guest

    When the item is duped , the tag would be duped too
    So searching the game for duped tags would be easy.
    But it appears that EA already has a system for this since they have already banned the people with duped items.

    I agree with the timestamp and a Shard addition as this would make the tag a unique key in a database. This way it would stop duped items from being created in the first place. Make some unique key for each item which is just simple RDBMS concepts.... unique constraint violation

    Ideas like this are far better then denying people the option of buying items with cash because some people just don't play the game enough to care about gaining real skill , not just high numbers in the paperdoll



    But what something like this woud do
     
  46. Kaleb

    Kaleb Lore Master
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    I think they should take thier item list and create a program that keeps count of them witch would monitor the spawn rate and orgin of such items excludeing any items that get made useing materials. use of materials would automaticly set that account safe say if they were training tinkering and making 120 spyglasses. but if an item is created and dont match a spawn point or no materials used they get auto deleted and a gm comes and bans them(Orney spawns on server count gos up program auto checks spawn point that can be traced to other shards if it dont come up as one of the doom bosses or if its ID matches another its deleted and a red flag sent to GM bots). It would be alot of work and money to write such a program but would be worth it in the long run.
     
  47. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    Frankly there is a whole list of things you should not be able to do on a trial account, but I don't think I would include characters less than 15 days old in this equation. Coloured, or special leather bods should be one of them. Basically the only thing you should be able to do with a trial account is wander around Trammel (including Trammel T2A), Malas, Tokuno and Ilshenar, and visit the Trammel anti-virtue dungeons.

    You should not be able to enter a peerless instance, or any of the peerless areas, participate in special event content such as the past event, enter Felucca or Heartwood, place a house (not sure if you can do this on a trial account or not - I'm assuming no), or hand in any coloured bod of any sort. You should not be able to wear or use any artifact item. This would still leave tons of content that trial accounts would be able to access, and would destroy 99% of the trial account abuses.