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Great job on the tmap randomization ...

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Kojak, Aug 5, 2010.

  1. Kojak

    Kojak Lore Master
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    [​IMG]

    :)

    and the second one was under a house ... so far so good ...

    (these were maps obtained "after" the patch this afternoon - the prepatch ones still work)
     
  2. Mapper

    Mapper Crazed Zealot
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    Thats what happens when people ask for a fishing update..

    I applaud your effort in getting a boat, On the off chance you can dig the water out the way. :D
     
  3. sablestorm

    sablestorm Certifiable
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    Where else would you find pirate treasure lost at sea? Hire the Nixies to bring it up for you or find an alchemist who can make you a water breathing potion!
     
  4. Lorddog

    Lorddog Crazed Zealot
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    so friggin what. a few maps (1%-5%) cant be used? big deal

    suck it up
     
  5. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Well, on the up side, after a week or so if I remember correctly, you will have to decrypt the map again and the location will change.
     
  6. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    That's for maps that were decoded before the publish.



    Also Kojak... LOL ROFL that you whited out your character name, your character avatar, and your backpack. I needed the laugh.
     
  7. Where did you get the 1%-5% number from? Sounds made up. And why should any screwed up locations be acceptable?
     
  8. Mapper

    Mapper Crazed Zealot
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    There is certainly quite an isuse! From the fishing forum...


     
  9. Kojak

    Kojak Lore Master
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    that was done to protect the innocent (namely me - hehe)

    btw, 3rd tmap was under a tree so couldn't dig that one either - so far 0 for 3 - I'm starting to think Origin is COMPLETELY useless as a test shard - they had a week and not a peep about this ... they should let Catskills test stuff instead - oh yeahhhhh

    1-3% lol - so far it's 100% - so much for that theory
     
  10. Lorddog

    Lorddog Crazed Zealot
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    sorry i guess i was kinda rude :grouphug:
     
  11. woody_cats

    woody_cats Guest

    there you are kojak


    was reading about this problem and all i could think about was a picture of boat with a pirate captain and miner and you on it and have you paging gm to determie weither if the pirate threatened to made the miner jump off the plank to dig for the chest or if the pirate said hehe the mob sure made a fool of you even if you didn.t die would that be considered harresment
     
  12. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    Yeah, lets just ignore bugs in the game. Thats the ticket.

    Next time you encounter a bug that disrupts your play don't come here to *****. Suck it up.
     
  13. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    Sir, Origin did well for the size of our population. I did over 30 maps of multi lvl's and decoded each map I got new in the chests. NONE were to so out of the way spots but the one for center of magincia! I can see your fustration and others who are getting "bad" maps.
    We in '97 had same trouble, under houses and trees. Still have one sorta under a tree next to my tower on Napa thats a bit tough toget to.
    The Dev need to hear this and correct the errors in the paramiters of the maps locations. Report it to Bugs as you would on test. Geesh dont go blameing one shard for every shards troubles with this, its not fair.

    Getting the "new" maps was not going well as the spawn on masma for chests is so bloody low getting any is hours of work for so little, and totaly only 6 critters spawn lvl 6 maps.
     
  14. Gheed

    Gheed Certifiable
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    I think this was discovered before the pub went to origin. I wonder what the ratio of fixed bugs to new bugs are in this pub?
     
  15. Alvinho

    Alvinho Great Lakes Forever!
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    This is exactly the reason the were static to begin with
     
  16. Supreem

    Supreem Founder, Citadel Studios
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    When we implemented the treasure map randomization, we knew we wouldn't be able to make it so every chest would be in a diggable spot at launch. We will continue to work on the algorithm and hopefully it will get better through iteration. For now just hang onto those maps for 30 days and you will be able to decode them again. :)
     
  17. Gheed

    Gheed Certifiable
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    wow ok... you built it bugged. So.... wasn't it announce you guys were working on this like 6 months ago? Sorry but the new content has been lacking as of late.... hard to get excited about it.
     
  18. Shelleybean

    Shelleybean Certifiable
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    Hmm underwater chests could be cool. :)
     
  19. canary

    canary Guest

    So... you decided to release it buggy???

    Oh, god... and you wonder why people get angry and irritated with the team. rolleyes:
     
  20. Aurelius

    Aurelius Babbling Loonie
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    Strangely, I am reminded of a past producer telling us the KR client was gold, then after he quit admitting it was junk but the pressure from marketing to release it was unstoppable.....
     
  21. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    You knowingly pushed out unfinished/bugged code?

    Really?

    Why?

    If your answer is something like "To give you new content..." then the Dev team has a serious break with reality. Release content when it is finished, tested and found to be relatively bug-free.

    Its actions like this that take what should have been a well-recieved change to the game and turn them into a PR nightmare.
     
  22. canary

    canary Guest

    The other problem, of course, Martyna, is that RARELY do these 'issues' get addressed properly later.

    ... need I only say 'Kingdom Reborn', 'Enhanced Client' or 'Virtues'.
     
  23. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Inquisitor
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    Well if ya read that other thread they have lobsters or will have soon. So one can draw a logical conclusion.... they are coming out with SCUBA gear for us to be able to get to the bottom of the ocean to dig up these chests and the lobsters will be pinching us in private areas until we are done.

    *runs off to start imbuing uber scuba gear and nad-cover of the jackal*
     
  24. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    Thank you for the reply.

    That being said...



    WHAT?!
     
  25. NBG

    NBG Lore Master
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    2 questions...

    1. Do you guys still have a QA department?
    2. If you do have a QA department, What.... exactly are they doing?
     
  26. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
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    Bioware Mythic has just lost 10.0 in Respect.

    Are you kidding me? You KNEW it?

    Okay... seriously, I expect a royalty check for this, but hey, here's a novel idea. When someone decodes a treasure map, have the server check the location it's in. If it cannot be dug up (1 because of water, or 2 because it's in a location that cannot be dug through -- the server would know if a house is there), then have it re-roll its own random location.

    When it goes to be dug up, if a house has since been placed there, have the map re-roll its own random location again.

    Voila.

    Your problem is completely and TOTALLY solved with a couple of quick checks, and then you CAN be assured that ALL of the RANDOM locations ARE accessible.

    For you to have released this in the state it is in has lowered my bar of expectations yet again. You guys CANNOT afford flubs like this.
     
  27. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Thanks Ra.

    I like people who can not only offer criticism but solutions.

    Hopefully the powers that be use your solution and do so ASAP.
     
  28. Mapper

    Mapper Crazed Zealot
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    Sarcasm I hope? I don't believe you think they wouldn't do this if it wasn't as simple as that. It's easy to say things but who knows how hard it is to do with an almost 13 year old game.
     
  29. canary

    canary Guest

    Actually its pretty common knowledge that the UO team usually work on things using the easiest way to do things, not typically the best.
     
  30. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
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    Err, I have to question the sarcasm of your own statement given the number of things that the game could be doing that is relatively simple (ie: the code to do so already exists), and yet they have, historically, not done so.

    It very clearly is, to be blunt, that simple.

    First, when the treasure map's random location is rolled, again, the server(s) already know where all of the houses are, and what size they are. That means that a very quick calculation determines whether or not a house covers up an X,Y coordinate. What code could they use that offers a similar check? Yes, that's right, the recall check. A similar code structure already exists to determine if you can recall to a given point -- why is it a stretch for it to determine if you can actually stand in that location and mine? (Also, just like a castle recall, it would invalidate the courtyard of a castle from treasure maps).

    As far as water goes, the server already knows if a tile is water. It also knows if there are impassible objects there. So a straight up check of that particular tile if it passes the housing check allows it to be a "correct location."

    Now, obviously, the Dev Team can't code random that guesses whether or not someone has placed a house in the interim, so when you are in the area and digging, the map does a check of its coordinate again to ensure that it's still a good location. If it is, then it's fine -- it only really has to check once every five minutes we'll say just in case someone places while you're looking. But once the chest is up, the chest itself should block house placement in a small area around it so no one could be phallic representations about it.

    Again, regardless of the pompom section: It. IS. That. Simple.



    By the way, while I've never worked on UO, I am a programmer. I'm not pulling this solution out of my posterior, I'm basing it on very solid ground given existing systems in the game that already do function. I would remind you that they used to think patching the map file would require a 76mb download of the entire map until one day a developer listened to one of my very simple suggestions, and as we all know, they're quite capable of patching the mapfile now without sending the entire map down the pipe. Experience trumps laziness.
     
  31. DHMagicMan_1

    DHMagicMan_1 Guest

    They could probably code something so that if you are within say 5 or 10 tiles of the treasure site and the treasure has not been dug up then you can click something on the map to reset the location. I could see that being abused if you didn't have a reasonable location check to make sure they aren't flushing "Good" locations just because they want something close by.
     
  32. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    Should we start a pool as to when the new maps will be "fixed"?

    I'm guessing 2-6 weeks, or the thext publish cycle.
     
  33. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
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    Oh, I'm betting that if we see a fix for these that even remotely resembles it having occurred before the next name change of Bioware Mythic after Frito Lay buys them out, becomes Fritoware Biolay to have them work on Cracker Jacks Online (which at this point may be the only game they're qualified to work on), it won't happen before Publish 69 or 70.
     
  34. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    *puts Ra'Dian down for "When the Abyss freezes over"* :lol:
     
  35. Apetul

    Apetul Rares Fest Host | LS April 2011
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    Better... when decoded the maps should do the SAME check as the recall spell. Cannot recall to that location? then a chest shouldnt exist there. That way, there will be no chests on water, houses, tress, whatever.
    And for ilshenar.. well, screw ilshenar just for a few days until you guys figure a improved way to do it. I bet any dev can do this change in a matter of minutes and they dont need to worry about testing.. we all know that EA Mythic has thousands of people paying $12 x month to test stuff.
     
  36. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
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    Well, the thing with Ilshenar is they could still run the same technical check: "Is this a valid location?" IE: Can someone stand here.

    The server already knows that... it's what -- not to put too fine a point on it -- allows each of us to stand in the tiles that aren't otherwise impassible.

    What bothers me is that there is, to be frank, a clear solution to this issue, and yet it wasn't implemented. I mean, this stuff was held back from Pub 66 because it wasn't ready yet. It's still in a form I wouldn't call "ready," and yet, here it is.
     
  37. canary

    canary Guest

    My god... I just noticed Supreem is the LEAD programmer.

    And someone just handed him a solution in like 5 minutes.
     
  38. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Remove the randomization. It's a waste of time and will always be filled with bugs. You will never be able to fix 100%. Static maps we have built histories among there locations.
     
  39. HD2300

    HD2300 Certifiable
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    Yes they have a QA department of 70,000 players.
     
  40. canary

    canary Guest

    That is accounts. Actual paying PLAYERS is far, far less.

    But the 70k number was years ago, so I suspect it is nowhere near 70k these days.
     
  41. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Ha! I knew it! Although I was way off on the amount of time between decoding and having to decrypt it again. lol

    Just good to know that there will be no need to toss those maps :)
     
  42. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    A pre-existing, fully-tested fix that is a well-known game mechanic no less.

    The fact that this wasn't implemented from the start is puzzling. Not surprising,but puzzling.
     
  43. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
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    Strange, really, that I should come home from school to this. We were discussing the function of QA today, and ironically, the role of QA was defined as, "Ensuring the game is functioning to the expected level."

    Which is to say perhaps UO is functioning to the level that QA is expected to test for. I mean, Supreem has said they knew this was going live with this bug, so QA wouldn't have been testing for this anyway.

    It's not QA's job to IMPROVE the game, but to rather ensure that systems are performing as expected.

    Which... explains a lot, from where I'm sitting anyway.
     
  44. J.B.

    J.B. Journeyman
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    Likes the humor!
     
  45. J.B.

    J.B. Journeyman
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    I can't wait until the day some one wants to dig a treasure chest in my court yard of my castle.


    You want to do what!
     
  46. Theo_GL

    Theo_GL Grand Poobah
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    Eh, give em a break. The whole team (all 5 of em) are working hard on a shoestring budget.


    I've done a few maps so far.... Loot is better and more interesting however I still hate the 50 useless items in the chest. Too much junk and most really low propeeties. Like Mongbat loot and this is from Level 5 chests.

    Why can't the Lvl 5 chests be more like paragon chests? 5-8 items and chance at something decent?

    Oh well, at least the Alacrity scrolls and imbue stuff is useful.
     
  47. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    Wow... I know you're joking, but that would be a great twist, make it so you need fishing to fish up the Tmaps that end up in the ocean! :p ugh, but then I'd have to train fishing on this char :/
     
  48. Picus of Napa

    Picus of Napa Slightly Crazed
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    I think they are trying to add some element to the game. Taking away peoples hard work from T-Books is annoying, thankfully I mooched these for years and never bought or made a set.

    One knew that this randomization would end up in a few maps not working on every server. I would be surprised if the systems are able to check where every house is and make adjustments for this. There should be a check that if spot=water reroll.
     
  49. RaDian FlGith

    RaDian FlGith Babbling Loonie
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    There is already a system in place that checks for the existence of a house: The Recall system. It validates the coordinates of your destination, and if it's inside a house, including a castle courtyard, it negates your ability to recall.

    So, you take said system, adapt it for treasure maps to validate whether the map point is a valid map point. If it's not, just re-roll the map point until it comes up with one that is valid. Problem solved.

    There's nothing surprising or difficult about this expectation.

    As for checking vs. water or impassable tiles, yeah... that's got to be a pretty easy check since the server already must know whether a tile is water (ie: fishable, sailable) or impassable (ie: you can't stand here).

    I mean, it's 2010 on a 13 year old game. Not exactly rocket science.
     
  50. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    As opposed to people getting angry waiting?

    So, there's a few bugs, we'll live.