1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Greetings Guest!!

    In order to combat SPAM on the forums, all users are required to have a minimum of 2 posts before they can submit links in any post or thread.

    Dismiss Notice

Greater Dragons Damage Output in PVP is INSANE

Discussion in 'UHall' started by GoodGuy, Aug 20, 2008.

  1. GoodGuy

    GoodGuy Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 30, 2008
    Messages:
    1,357
    Likes Received:
    1
    Greater dragons just do WAY too much damage in PVP.

    Between the HUGE damage hits, that can bleed you also, they cast CRAZY amount of spells in short burst that just **** anybody up, its more than any regular mage on the field could cast.

    This is becoming a HUGE problem on siege perilous where a handful of trammies and otherwise LAME gamers have started using pets soloely in PVP and their characters are built simply to stay alive and do minimal damage, mostly through dismounts. They stack up on DCI, hp regen, and smoke bombs and if you try to target them they disappear faster than you can get them to 1/2 life.

    Its just impossible to continue pvping while this bull**** is around.
     
  2. they have trammies on siege ????
     
  3. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Messages:
    6,680
    Likes Received:
    824
    ...and the game of taking a shot every time someone whines about greater dragons continues!

    :shots:
     
  4. Blesh

    Blesh Sage
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    743
    Likes Received:
    6
    Do advanced character tokens work on siege? If they do, I'm gonna come try this out. get a premade tamer token, stone off taming lore and vet, then do a ninja one.

    I have till nov till my account deactivates, and money left over from selling my items for RL cash (before stratics mods nerfed it of course)

    but yeah, if the tokens work on siege, I'll actually play out the remander of my game time there. This sounds like a blast.
     
  5. oh i hate greater dragons the fact that its easier to tame one than for me at 120 with all bard skill to peace or provo is insanly stupid'

    however that does not change the fact that there are no trammies on seige
     
  6. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Messages:
    6,680
    Likes Received:
    824
    I think I shall have to take another shot because of this statement too. I don't think I even have to explain the problem with the statement either either.

    :shots:
     
  7. PASmountaindew

    PASmountaindew Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2001
    Messages:
    2,711
    Likes Received:
    1
    Dude I play a tamer and as I mentioned in a previous thread I tried the whole PVP with a greater dragon and it sucked. The dragon is slow as heck and even a nooblet on foot can out run them. Geez people only complain about a template when their own templet is not the god template of the day then they want everyone nerfed so they can be God again. I thought Seige players had a set and did not whine about things. You just go and whack the player. Atleast you don't have tram rulesets where people can bank sit and smack talk all day and feel protected. Grow a set and go about your buissiness please. Thank you move along. :bdh:
     
  8. Krystal

    Krystal Sage
    Stratics Veteran TnT/TnA

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    725
    Likes Received:
    22
    Are u from SP? do u got a clue what he is talking about?? of course its harder on ur shard cause most of you trammies dont know how to PvP with all ur insured crap.(of course u would use a tamer to fight and try to call it PvP lmao) And ur telling someone else to grew a set?? lmao get for real. on our shard these beast cast up to 5 screens away not just one spell but up to 4 flame strikes, tamer can swing bolas or have archery to dismount then smoke bomb. detect is so lame it dont even work right. So before u open ur big mouth and tell someone to grew a set why dont u find out the facts first? :loser:
     
  9. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Messages:
    6,680
    Likes Received:
    824
    *on our shard these beast cast up to 5 screens away not just one spell but up to 4 flame strikes, tamer can swing bolas or have archery to dismount then smoke bomb. detect is so lame it dont even work right.*

    Ugh, monsters are same on every shard...tamers can throw bolas on every shard...archers can dismount then smoke bomb on every shard...detect has always been lame on every shard...
    :coco:
     
  10. Krystal

    Krystal Sage
    Stratics Veteran TnT/TnA

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    725
    Likes Received:
    22
    well it dont sound it, since he says tamers suck in killing people. :coco:
    dont u all have passive detect too? we dont
    im talking tamers with archery....
     
  11. PASmountaindew

    PASmountaindew Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2001
    Messages:
    2,711
    Likes Received:
    1
    I didn't say I still PVP with a greater dragon. I tried it a few times and gave up on it because the dragons are so slow. And yes all monsters are the same no matter what shard you play on. And Krystal why don't you let the OP respond to me instead of jumping in to deffend him. Ever heard the term Mind Your Own Buissiness? Geez so many people are like short people in a nudist colony... always got their noses in everyone's bussiness. lol
     
  12. Krystal

    Krystal Sage
    Stratics Veteran TnT/TnA

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    725
    Likes Received:
    22
    ur the one thats in his business!
    wtf lmao :coco:
     
  13. Cear Dallben Dragon

    Cear Dallben Dragon Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2005
    Messages:
    2,005
    Likes Received:
    17
    HOLY ****!

    how are you a mod?


    stratics... whew.
     
  14. Eslake

    Eslake Guest

    I know that there is no point in responding to this thread, since the 500 other threads on the same topic have not changed anyone's mind.

    But I'm so tired of people dropping buzz words where they don't belong just to get people rialed up is getting old.

    I play SP, and I play LS. Funny thing is, this would almost make some kind of sense if you said it in regards to Felucca LS.
    But since there is no Tram on SP, nor any other facet with safe-play rules, it shows that you are simply trying to cause trouble.

    Since you seem not to understand how to PvP against a tamer, here's some help.

    Those smoke bombs you're complaining about - don't magically give the tamer another 100 skill points for stealth. So when they use them they cannot follow you while you lead the dragon around a house or a corner and ditch it.

    The only way around this is if they have 220min invested in taming to have a GD, 99min in Ninjitsu, 50min in Hiding, and pretty much another 100 in stealth.
    And all of that still doesn't let the GD catch you on foot, so you walk around a sharp corner and are left facing a Character with nearly 500 skill points invested in skills that don't protect them from your spells/attacks or allow them to cause damage to you.

    Someone with 220 points in combat/magic .. .
     
  15. Krystal

    Krystal Sage
    Stratics Veteran TnT/TnA

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    725
    Likes Received:
    22
    i agree, he thinks he big and bad cause he a mod *shakes head*
    :loser:
     
  16. Salty Pete

    Salty Pete Guest

    Did you try discording the tamer?
     
  17. PASmountaindew

    PASmountaindew Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2001
    Messages:
    2,711
    Likes Received:
    1
    This has nothing to do with me being a Moderator. I responded to the OP because I play a tamer and here he is asking EA to basically nerf one of my weapons. How would you like it if I said your favorite weapon was way too powerfull and asked EA to nerf it. Search my post history. I have never once asked anything to be nerfed. I think everything is fine as it is. And no I am not big and bad. I just happen to feel passionate about my tamer character.
     
  18. Shanna

    Shanna Guest


    Beautifully put :thumbup:
     
  19. Krystal

    Krystal Sage
    Stratics Veteran TnT/TnA

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    725
    Likes Received:
    22
    ur "weapon" is over powered. no weapon in uo has as much power as a dragon. We want dragons nerfed in PvP. Like our weapons are nerfed in PvP. I dont care if they one hits a boss. but when they 1 hit a player then something needs to be done. it is a huge imbalance in PvP.
     
  20. Shanna

    Shanna Guest

    It's an inbalance in pvp because instead of working around it, you rather complain about it. I play a tamer and prefer not to use a dragon because it keeps me on foot therefore any competent pvper can easily outrun (even on foot) my dragon and lead it off... Leaving me without my weapon.

    Not everyone uses ninja or hiding and stealth. I use peacing because it keeps animals off me.
     
  21. Sarphus

    Sarphus Guest

    I'm not making any point for or against greater dragons... I'm just saying the topic is stale and the devs have already said that they are in the process of addressing the topic in an upcomming publish, so there's no point in having a flame war over it until after changes are made.

    :bdh:
     
  22. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Messages:
    6,680
    Likes Received:
    824
    And one last shot for the only good post in this thread!

    :shots:
     
  23. Zoran

    Zoran Guest

    This has to be the most ridiculous argument I have ever heard. First of all, are the best known PvP'ers in the game tamers? No. Tamers are known as a typically easy kill. Once you have the tamer seperated from the pet, it becomes academic whether or not a dragon is more powerful than your script-assisted dexxer or mage.

    As far as being able to peace it, or discord it- both are very possible. And when it comes to "effort in training" the simple fact is; most tamers have logged a hell of a lot more hours building up their taming than a dexxer/ mage/ OR necro have logged building theirs. It is much harder to control a pet in combat than it is to run around willy-nilly while little cheater programs heal you up, AND if a dragon dies in combat- it actually losses stat points and has to be retrained- does your duped sword have that problem???

    Ok, The fact is this; Every type of opponent has a trick to defeating them. Unless they are a merciless cheater, ANY player can be defeated. Tamers- seperate them from the dragon, Dexxers- parafield them, Mages- Bleed them and poison them and hope they get dismounted, Archers? Well- usually less def chance but it varries. The point is, at least tamers are putting in effort to use their skill- not downloading it from hack sites.
    Word.

    No Trade,
    No Skill,
    but I can spam "ALL KILL".
    ~Zoran
     
  24. EnigmaMaitreya

    EnigmaMaitreya Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    3,402
    Likes Received:
    0
    Wow, Trammel is on Sp. My oh My what a change and one of the best kept secrets in UO's history.

    I Bet 1 Billion Gold, most of the SP players didnt even know there was a Trammel on SP.

    OR

    In short, it just proves, the Lies and BS, the I hate tamers and/or I cant PvP worth CRAP so lets start a Lie, Con anything and every thing it takes to con EA/M into changing the game to make me look good, because I suck.
     
  25. Krystal

    Krystal Sage
    Stratics Veteran TnT/TnA

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    725
    Likes Received:
    22
    ur right im dropping it. just thought the mod was outa line...
     
  26. Yalp

    Yalp Guest

    Yes they are indeed powerful.. but guess what... they are balanced with just as many weaknesses that make them less than desirable to a tamer in pvp. Use the weaknesses against them.... try it and I'm sure you won't find anything left to complain about.
     
  27. Salty Pete

    Salty Pete Guest

    It works like this:

    If you play anything but the PvP gimplate of the month, you are a Trammie.

    If you role play, you are a Trammie.

    If your character has no neon, you are a Trammie.

    If your character has a name that isn't a ******** attempt at almost being ban worthy, in alternating caps, or that isn't somehow related to some musician you like, you are a Trammie.

    If you think AoS UO sucks ass, you are a Trammie.

    If you play without constantly trash talking every thing on your screen that moves, you are a Trammie.

    If you die to someone in PvP without accusing them of cheating, you are a Trammie.

    If you don't agree that everyone else's character needs to be nerfed so that your gimplate remains unbeatable, you are a Trammie.
     
  28. the 4th man

    the 4th man Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2005
    Messages:
    1,088
    Likes Received:
    45
    -----------------------------------------------------------------
    Balance, there's that crybaby word again......Dragons are supposed to be tough and BA. Why is it when someones template is crap or a player can't handle something, they scream nerf or overpowered??

    you guys outta get a grip....either create new fighting tactics or go play WoW, where the kids are.


    much later
     
  29. I don't agree with the way the original poster delivered his message, but he is right, Greater dragons and in particular GD breath damage is overpowered.

    I highlighted the part of your quote and using a corner because of a funny thing that happened to me the other night.

    I rounded a corner and was dismounted by a stealth archer (dismounting while hidden is a whole nother subject). His dragon was invised and he all killed me as soon as I was dismounted. The dragon cast lighting and between that and the dismount I was down to 60 health. I got around the corner though and thought I was safe. I was casting invis just as the dragons fire breath shot right through the house killing me with 72 damage.

    It is normal for people to whine when they get killed. However, when it gets to a point where people won't PvP because they know they are going to die no matter what, then it is time for an adjustment. Just like it was time for an adjustment when mages cast 4/6 and honor/lighting strikes did 100 damage.

    Those weren't things people could use tactics to overcome. So people either quit PvPing or switched to the same overpowered template everyone else was using. Neither of those "solutions" was good enough, so a balance adjustment was made.

    Greater dragons fall into the same category. All they need to do is cap the damage from the breath weapon in PvP. That's it.

    It is time to get it done.
     
  30. Krystal

    Krystal Sage
    Stratics Veteran TnT/TnA

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    725
    Likes Received:
    22
    lmao this is so true, but a dragon would never slave to a mortal either...
     
  31. Alrich

    Alrich Guest


    Ya know there once was a time in UO, where there were tons of role played orcs, murderers, bandits and undead who roleplayed AND killed you to loot your newly found vanq katana...
     
  32. Eslake

    Eslake Guest

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't it turn out that the people complaining the most about the breath were running around with counter-slayer weapons causing it to be doubled?

    Logically I would agree that making the maximum "normal" dragon's breath the PvP cap on all of them makes sense.
    But since my pathetic weaver-scribble-mage has a 100% win rate against tamers with GDs, I would consider their Current state to be Underpowered.

    *shrug* I don't PvP on a tamer, so a nerf to them for PvP won't effect me in a negative way.
    But I don't see any reason to nerf something when it is already losing.
    I have seen GD tamers pop into Fel and Try to kill people, but they rarely actually cause a death before they suffer one themselves.

    You lost me there. Did you die as soon as you were dismounted or did you live to run around the house and begin casting invis? :p

    Casting/Breath through obsticles has nothing to do with Greater Dragons themselves. It is all part of the same bug as we have discussed before, and effects all casting creatures. We all agree it needs to be fixed.


    I agree with the concept, but how does it apply here?
    You don't log in, load your PvPer, and die to a GD.
    The odds of even seeing a GD in a given hour of PvPing is pretty slim. And lately they get mobbed by everyone in range the instant they come through the gate.

    Or is that what you're saying? That Tamers with GDs are the ones who will quit bothering to try and PvP because they know they are going to die no matter what? ;)

    I don't even bother to attack them any more, unless they attack me. And to make it worth the time (challenge wise) I've made my own rule, that I have to kill the dragon before I kill the tamer.
     
  33. Arrgh

    Arrgh Sage
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2008
    Messages:
    624
    Likes Received:
    94
    Well, if the team or EA (hah) is gonna cater to the PvP as usual from excessive whining I hope they restrict the changes to Fel only. That of course would make too much sense though which means it'll probably be all across the board...again and as usual. I'm sorry but I just don't have much confidence when they bring out the nerf tree (they don't know what a stick is).

    Yes, I play Fel but at least I can defend myself. No. I don't use a tamer on Fel.
    I actually was in a red vs blue battle a few weeks ago and there were two g dragons. I thought it was fun myself but I had enough sense to lead the things off and kill the tamers. Sure I did bite it a few times but that's pvping if you can't handle getting pwned then play Trammel.

    l like MoonglowMerchant's idea on capping the fire breath in pvp or fix los one or both. :thumbsup:
     
  34. Krystal

    Krystal Sage
    Stratics Veteran TnT/TnA

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    725
    Likes Received:
    22
    they were made for other shards and should never been put on sp. our rules are alot different. i want to PvP not PvM. all they need to do is cap them in pvp.
     
  35. GoodGuy

    GoodGuy Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 30, 2008
    Messages:
    1,357
    Likes Received:
    1
    To ANYBODY who thinks there is a logical and senseable way to kill a tamer on siege perilous, let me tell you THERE IS NOT.

    90% of tamers on siege use 1 macro

    That macro is attack last target+all kill+last target

    If you make a macro for this, you can basically hold down 1 button and ANYTIME the person on last target gets on screen with you, the dragon will be attacking them instantly, if they come any closer you will shoot them with a dismount.

    The main problem is BONDING ON SIEGE PERILOUS. There is just no reason to have bonding on siege perilous that allows players to use the same pets ALL DAY LONG with no negative affect for letting them die in PVP.

    I think if a pet dies to players it needs to lose 10 points of skill and be unrezzable for 30 mins.
     
  36. drinkbeerallday

    drinkbeerallday Visitor

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2008
    Messages:
    1,175
    Likes Received:
    0
    no pet should be doing 80+ damage to someone with 60+ fire resist.

    that's what is going on here, nothing else.

    why the dev team allowed this into the game, how it got past QA. i have no idea?
     
  37. GoodGuy

    GoodGuy Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 30, 2008
    Messages:
    1,357
    Likes Received:
    1

    LOLOLOL you must be from AOL legends or something because on siege perilous if you are in a fight with ANY of them 3-4 major guilds, you can expect a tamer to show up within 30 seconds -3 mins of that fight starting.

    Stop talking about this if you DO NOT play siege perilous.
     
  38. GoodGuy

    GoodGuy Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 30, 2008
    Messages:
    1,357
    Likes Received:
    1

    EXACTLY, i have been hit with 92 damage fire breathe when wearing 60 fire resist. THAT IS JUST ABSURD, and has no place in pvp, and truely shows that these greater dragons are on par with Mages with FC4 casting or Bushido archers doing 120+ damage honor hits.

    It is just too powerful and is being abused by every gimp out there to be a chump in PVP and ruin it for everybody else.
     
  39. azmodanb

    azmodanb Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2004
    Messages:
    5,912
    Likes Received:
    1,186
    /signed
     
  40. Castor

    Castor Guest

    You and GG have to be masochists trying to explain this situation to uhall. You would have better chance of getting a sack of rocks to understand this then the people who post here...
     
  41. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't it turn out that the people complaining the most about the breath were running around with counter-slayer weapons causing it to be doubled?

    No. I have been hit for up to 90. I am routinely hit for 70 or more. Whenever someone takes breath damage in vent, I ask how much it was. 80 or so is not unusual. If someone was using a slayer and taking double damage, that damage would be 120 minimum.

    Logically I would agree that making the maximum "normal" dragon's breath the PvP cap on all of them makes sense.
    But since my pathetic weaver-scribble-mage has a 100% win rate against tamers with GDs, I would consider their Current state to be Underpowered.

    *shrug* I don't PvP on a tamer, so a nerf to them for PvP won't effect me in a negative way.
    But I don't see any reason to nerf something when it is already losing.
    I have seen GD tamers pop into Fel and Try to kill people, but they rarely actually cause a death before they suffer one themselves.

    Understand that absorbing 40 points from a dismount lightning bolt and 72 from breath is survivable if you have 150 health. Since most people on Siege only have around 100, it is not. Breath damage is just as overpowered on production shards, but players are overpowered too. However, unlike Dragons, players have had their offensive output limited by caps on casting, caps on damage, etc. Greaters are doing about twice as much damage with one attack as a player character can.

    You lost me there. Did you die as soon as you were dismounted or did you live to run around the house and begin casting invis? :p

    I lived for about two to three seconds after being initially dismounted. Enough time to go right around the corner and be shot through the walls.

    Casting/Breath through obsticles has nothing to do with Greater Dragons themselves. It is all part of the same bug as we have discussed before, and effects all casting creatures. We all agree it needs to be fixed.

    That is not going to be fixed. Capping breath damage however is doable.


    I agree with the concept, but how does it apply here?
    You don't log in, load your PvPer, and die to a GD.
    The odds of even seeing a GD in a given hour of PvPing is pretty slim. And lately they get mobbed by everyone in range the instant they come through the gate.

    Or is that what you're saying? That Tamers with GDs are the ones who will quit bothering to try and PvP because they know they are going to die no matter what? ;)

    You can't log in to PvP on Siege without seeing multiple GD's.

    I don't even bother to attack them any more, unless they attack me. And to make it worth the time (challenge wise) I've made my own rule, that I have to kill the dragon before I kill the tamer.[/QUOTE]

    Good for you. Try killing one on Siege.
     
  42. Skwiz

    Skwiz Guest

    Come to Sp.. try these dragons out.. Yes they are slow.. but the problem is WE ARE PVPERS.. We dont want to *HAVE* to run away from a dragon each time it shows up to completely ruin a fight... Usually 2 Guilds will be fighting and a super dragon shows.. The guild with the dragon will just stand on screen with the dragon and wait for us to come to them.. OR just walk around and keep pace with the dragon.. Running away means "There goes tonights PvP" basically.

    Second.. These dragons are Very crazy because on SP We dont have Insured suits.. We cannot stack our Hp X1200.. We Cant run Blessed 45% Dci.. We cant Run 95+ Fire to stop Corpseskin. We cant run 12HP regen on top of a good suit.. We lack almost all the defense you say we should use to fight a dragon because we have *ONE* bless.. For a dexxer this is usually Always a weapon.. meaning inorder to run a Very good suit.. Its 1+ Mil.. Which isnt a problem.. UNTIL you get Bit 42 Damage (Bleed) lets say lightning for a weak spell.. 12 and Fireballed for a low 50 which is *All* our Hp.. There goes a nice suit to All Kill.
     
  43. Yalp

    Yalp Guest

    Posters who have started this thread again and again have screamed it's a HUGE problem on Siege, and make it clear those of us on the production shards do not understand that Siege is being over run by tamers w/ GD's playing some template they don't approve of.... yet they seem to be guilty of the same thing they accuse everyone else of....Failing to understand...it IS NOT a problem on the production shards.

    Is it possible your cries for nerfing the GDs firebreath could be more specific? As in.. Greater Firebreath damage in pvp on SIEGE only is an issue! Please help!

    And for pity's sake..can you possibly try any of the suggested tactics for going against a tamer + GD before you start thread #2014 on this same subject? I've seen the posts.. Greater hit me for 70+ ... no 80+.. 90+... in these threads, again and again, the math has been presented.. and wouldn't ya know.. raw numbers show it's impossible to experience that kind of damage unless something other than the greater is working against you.... and yet when we further investigate just one of those crying for nerf.. wouldn't ya know... the pvp'r is using an opposing slayer type weapon.. terathon slayer..causing higher damage than normal....

    so please peeps.. deep breath... open the mind.... change the tactics, weps and/or armor.. and viola! greaters are not as bad as you've been crying about.
     
  44. Yalp

    Yalp Guest

    and yet the greater can ONLY target 1 player at a time.. hmmm.. sounds like tactics to me...
     
  45. Omnius

    Omnius Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 27, 2008
    Messages:
    3,209
    Likes Received:
    9
    lol every major pvp guild has 5 active players for dragon use. they all are dismounters with primary dismounters to assist. and the major pvpers x-heal and force fire away from the tamers.
     
  46. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Messages:
    6,680
    Likes Received:
    824
    Yes, of course, you're all too good to runaway and try to not get killed by the greater dragon, or lure it away while your mate kills the tamer, etc. We all forgot...
    :lame:
     
  47. Trep

    Trep Guest

    hmmmm.....the OP

    ...responses


    looks pretty specific to me.....
     
  48. Skwiz

    Skwiz Guest

    You realize of course with the new pet control system a pet Will follow the tamer when he says All follow me.. regardless if you flag on it or not.. Aka dragging it off.. But an experienced pvper like yourself couldnt make that kinda mistake.. My bad.
     
  49. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Messages:
    6,680
    Likes Received:
    824
    Darn tootin! :thumbsup: