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Hakeem, I need an opinion:

Discussion in 'UO Pacific' started by SUPRsalad, Jan 20, 2010.

  1. SUPRsalad

    SUPRsalad Guest

    Hakeem, I can't find our armory thread cus i deleted all my bookmarks, so screw it, I'll post it here.
    Anyways, long story short, my dad's house burnt down today along with my inheritance. They think it was electrical. Lost a lot of good rifles as well as some decent revolvers, scopes, binoculars, priceless books, family heirlooms and stuff... Anyways, this isn't really about that. No, Tesla, I'm not looking for attention, I need some advice from my dear friend Hakeem:

    I managed to get in and back out with two important rifles as well as a priceless photo of my grandfather and his brothers.

    Anyways, I'll start with the ar: It wasn't really IN the fire per se, like the rest, but It did get hot enough in that room to melt the nylon padded bag that it was in. Subsequently, the fire dpt hosed it down:

    Surprisingly, it looks okay. The barrel is the only thing that looks questionable, but rand al told me that it could be dangerous if its pitted on the inside. I can't tell if its like.. rusted? Or just 'smoked'.. Cant tell how hot it really got.. Maybe just rusted from being hosed by the fire dept? Anyway, take note that the stock didn't melt, nor does there seem to be any major damage to the scope. (its smokey, but still seems okay)

    Any advice would be appreciated:

    In this pic, you can see a fingerprint where i wiped off the smoke, er, corrosion, or whatever the hell it is:
    [​IMG]

    (better pic) you can see here that even the stamping on the scope seems okay? (yes, I wear those slippers)
    [​IMG]

    as you can see here, because it was leaning against a wall, the stock was on the floor where it was cooler i think:
    [​IMG]

    This is the other side of the barrel, which is my concern. Again, Its hard to tell if it got hot, or wet, or both, or what. It does seem to 'wipe off'.
    [​IMG]

    So far, I've a few opinions on this.

    One guy, a firefighter, told me he thinks it looks fine. He said 'I would just clean it up, and I wouldn't be affraid to take it out and cycle some rounds! you lucked out!'

    One guy told me, 'clearly, the barrel has taken some heat. I wouldn't mess with it. Just buy a new barrel, and take it to a smith. Have him go through it with a fine tooth comb. DO NOT FIRE IT'

    Rand says it looks alright, but to bag it down and pull the trigger with a string in case there's bad pitting or the gun blows up in my face. "I'd hate to see you take shrapnel to the face'' he says.. Being that rand has shot these more than any man I know, I tend to heed his warning. . .

    Whats your opinion, Hakeem?
     
  2. SUPRsalad

    SUPRsalad Guest

    Now, for the real heart breaker. Not as financially painful, but emotionally, this was my first 'real' rifle, and I loved it very much. It was in a leather saddle holster, leaning against the wall in the hallway where the fire came through, barrel down, stock up.

    Clearly, this one took some real heat. The firefighter said 'leather is a great heat-retardant, it looks okay'. Rand seems to disagree to some extent. Clearly, it got hot enough to mess up the finish on the barrel, and its taken some heat-corrosion as well as being hosed.. Clearly, the stock is screwed. . .

    Opinion, please?

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    edit: its a marlin 357, if you couldn't tell.
     
  3. SUPRsalad

    SUPRsalad Guest

    I was just talking to pink about it, and the crazy thing is, with the carbine, it was fully loaded. My feeling is that, if it didn't get hot enough to set the rounds off, maybe its okay? I dunno.. I'm not really that knowledgeable about guns, I just like to shoot the things.. Heart break city, my friends..
    Edit: PLEASE don't troll me, Tesla, I'm really REALLY not in the mood for it...
     
  4. mutau

    mutau Guest

  5. Stuiicide

    Stuiicide Journeyman
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    u are fine they are tempured steel, those rifles got cooked already once. id take em to a gun shop or tear em down youself an make sure the slide an the barrell is not blocked an u will be fine. they are far form the melt down stage.
     
  6. Gellor

    Gellor Guest

    Gemma,
    The problem with tempered steel is the manufacturer takes the barrel to a specific temp and then control how it cools. The process is "fairly" exact.

    I'm not sure on guns and when they do their tempering of a barrel, but automotive type stuff VERY often requires machining after tempering.

    I'm not sure how much heat is required to cause ammo to go off but if the magic number is 300F+, I'd be worried about the temper of the barrel.

    You might try contacting your local gun shop or even the manufacturer to see what their opinion is.

    OTOH, when my butt is on the line, I'm a bit overly cautious.
     
  7. SUPRsalad

    SUPRsalad Guest

  8. Gellor

    Gellor Guest

  9. SUPRsalad

    SUPRsalad Guest

    Wow, thanks reeb. I really appreciate that. Somehow, I don't think the tempering temp would be that low. I've had that barrel hotter than that I think. But thanks so much for the research. I got myself a free minute here, I think I'm going to go get another cleaning kit and some oil and see what I can do. It wasn't in the main 'origination' area where the FD said they heard 'pops and bangs', in the first few minutes, so my hopes are up on that one. The other one, its looking expensive already for the parts from marlin. Seems like I may as well find another one cheap..
     
  10. Rand Al

    Rand Al Guest

    tempering medals moves the molecules out evenly over the whole thing making the medal stronger different alloys have different temps to spread. Heating them can cause them to be weekend but not so bad that it is trashed the biggest threat to it is heat corrosion inside causing pitting. When a bulet goes over pits it causes pressure changes from expanding gases in the pits making the bullet not go down evenly and could cause a catastrophic failure of the barrel. Most ar15s barrels are strong enough to hold together and normally causes the mag to blow out but also can cause the charging handle area to fail to so it is bets to test fire them from a distance after you inspected for pitting inside just to be safe in case you missed some.
     
  11. lineman

    lineman Rares Fest Host | Ches Jan 2011
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    Oh man that sucks so bad, what a heart breaker. Sorry to here that. Guns have a lot of sentimental value which can never be replaced by insurance money.(well I guess some can). I know I would be devastated if I lost my Belgium made Browning 12 gauge my father gave me. It is one thing I have managed to hold on too all over the years and will be given to my son someday.
     
  12. KalVasTENKI

    KalVasTENKI Babbling Loonie
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    Damn buddy, I'm sorry for your losses. I hope those guns you managed to save still work! They really don't look too bad , just take some time to research and don't go loading up some rounds right away!! Be safe buddy
     
  13. SUPRsalad

    SUPRsalad Guest

    Welll,
    I went ahead and did the basic break-down and cleaning.
    All that crud on the barrel actually broke down and after a coat of oil, it doesn't
    look too shabby. Seems to cycle rounds manually. So far, so good.
    If I get a moment after meeting with the adjuster tomorrow, I think I'll go out and take her for a spin. (First few shots fired with a string as per Rand's advice) As for the Marlin, I'll take it to the smith tomorrow and get an estimate..
     
  14. SUPRsalad

    SUPRsalad Guest

    Update:

    I took the ar out today. As per rand's advice, I fired the first 10 rounds via peice of string. . Looked good, so i cycled the rest iron sites, no problems. Went ahead and put the scope back on, and to my surprise, its still completely sighted in at around 150yds. Far as I can tell, its still an immaculate piece of machinery, so a good mood, I am in.
     
  15. morgawr68

    morgawr68 Guest

    a question that i didnt see any one ask... is everyone ok that lived in the house???? loved ones, pets.... they arent replaceable. sorry to hear about the loss of the house and possessions. hope your toys will be ok.
     
  16. SUPRsalad

    SUPRsalad Guest

    yeah, no, but thanks for asking. Everyone made it out fine. Just dad and two dogs. All fine. Thanks for asking. Nothing of REAL value was lost, because dad isn't really a 'possessive' type. . . The rest will come out in the wash once insurance comes through.. In fact, I think he'll have a nicer home when its all said and done. Some decent guns, but nothing of any sentimental value were lost. Im sure the insurance will cover them. .
     
  17. KalVasTENKI

    KalVasTENKI Babbling Loonie
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    I'm glad to hear that bro , I'm glad things are working out.

    That's sick you got your AR ripping! :thumbup1:
     
  18. I miss yah Gemma.

    Bud.
     
  19. Pink Floyd

    Pink Floyd Sage
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    I miss you too gemma and I think we should all start signing our posts

    Bud.
     
  20. SUPRsalad

    SUPRsalad Guest

    Miss you guys too.


    Gemma
     
  21. KalVasTENKI

    KalVasTENKI Babbling Loonie
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    I love you Gemma

    -Kal :heart:
     
  22. SUPRsalad

    SUPRsalad Guest

    I love you too kal.

    gemma
     
  23. KalVasTENKI

    KalVasTENKI Babbling Loonie
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    :grouphug:
     
  24. hakeem

    hakeem Journeyman
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    HeY I'm really sorry I didn't catch this thread earlier. Had serious back issues so i been laid up. I am really glad no one was injured in the fire.
    I was gonna say the AR looked mostly water spotted, and a thorough cleaning should be the ticket.

    The Marlin, I just cant say for sure from the pics. The temps mentioned for cartridge detonation sound about right,at appx 250-350 degrees, but as for metal hardening, tempering and annealing, the metal itself determines temp.
    When tempering the heating process is over time, also the cooling. In the case of a house fire, temperatures can soar rapidly, and tho the heat may not equal forging temps, the speed of heating can alter temper. If I recall, many of the marlins had a brass or cast 'pot metal' iron reciver housing, instead of stamped/milled steel. If this is the case, the former 2 metals aren't tempered, but 'heat treated' , and don't stand up to as high a temperature as better methods. That one i would almost take to a smith or mchine shop to do a hardness test, on the reciver and barrel. Wish I lived closer, as I have the means at work to do it.
    And I love the idea of signing posts.

    Hak
     
  25. SUPRsalad

    SUPRsalad Guest

    Thanks Hak. I am very pleased with the AR. I ran though several hundred rounds yesterday, and not one jam.

    As for the Marlin, its going into the shop tomorrow.

    Gemma
     
  26. KalVasTENKI

    KalVasTENKI Babbling Loonie
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    Moccasins FTW!!!
     
  27. SUPRsalad

    SUPRsalad Guest

    agreed. About time for another pair tho..
     
  28. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    I see you guys talk about rifles mostly, but I have a question regarding pistols.

    I live in a very liberal town with not much around in terms of gun shops. I had to drive about 30 minutes to get to a shop that had a range attached to their store.

    I'm looking for a hand gun for home defense.

    When I was visiting family in Arizona I went and shot my dad's Smith & Wesson Sigma 9mm and I liked it, didn't have any problems with it. When I went to this shop to purchase one the store owner flat out told me he wouldn't sell me one because they were garbage.

    He tried to sell me a revolver, Taurus Bull (i think?), and mentioned that you can load smaller shot gun type shells which would be pretty ideal for home defense. That was a bit more than I wanted to spend so I explained that the Sigma was the caliber that I wanted and was in the price range I wanted.

    He insisted again that I didn't want one, and then told me about the Jiminez 9 mm. I looked it up and it retails for under $200 typically, so cheaper than the Sigma.

    Does anyone have extended experience with this gun? I don't want to spend $200 on something that's going to jam when I need it to work.

    Everything that I can find online is pure speculation because of the price or people that shot about 50 rounds through one at a shooting range.
     
  29. SUPRsalad

    SUPRsalad Guest

    This is a really long old conversation and its probably going to start an argument between myself and the other gun nuts (hak and rand), but heres my two cents:

    if an automatic like the sigma is what you want.. Then do NOT settle for a 200$ auto.. I would never rely on an automatic that cost so little. 9mm is a decent round because its easy to shoot, and easy to get good an comfortable with.
    I would personally look into either Sigma, Sig sauer, Kimber, glock, or beretta if I was going to have this as THE ONLY weapon in the house.. If I am going to put my wifes neck on the line for an auto, It had better be good. Frankly, I'm not much for the 9mily anyways.. Only auto I keep in the house is a .45 1911. Never jammed on me once. Everyone makes one. and NOBODY gets up after taking a 45 to the chest. NOBODY..

    Personally, if you're interested in home defense, aka 'reliability' in a hand-gun, I would take your father's advice and get a double-action revolver. Taurus makes a wide range of them. I can't put .410 shotgun shells into any Taurus that I am aware of. The only gun I've seen is a smith and wess called 'The Judge', and frankly, I think its silly.. 410 is no excuse for a shotgun, and my friend, if you're not a gun guy, you are NOT going to like shooting .44 mags.. at ALL..

    I'd go for something in the .357 calibre. Taurus makes a great snub-nose .357 double-action. (that means, you pull the trigger, the hammer comes back and then drops upon a full-squeeze) in other words, you pull it out of the drawer, and pull the trigger and it goes bang. The length of the barrel has NOTHING to do with accuracy, so don't let anyone talk you into a longer barrel than you really want. Personally, I like the shorter the better. (Longer barrels only increase velocity, and not by a noticeable ammount)
    *note: the reason they call it 'doube action' is that you can also pull the hammer back manually and THEN pulll the trigger for a little more accurate of a shot. Hence, two ways, or 'actions' to shoot with..

    Thing about getting a .357 double action is this:
    You can load it with .38 specials and practice. 38 is an easy round to shoot and get good with, and when you've become comfortable and accurate with the 38s, go ahead and load up the 357 mags, and put it under the matress.
    Its also an extremely powerful round in terms of 'knockdown' power.. Its the round they say 'you can break an engine block with' which, is bull****, but still, an AMAZINGLY powerful round. If you want a handgun, thats my two cents.

    However, Heres the problem with handguns.. Those bullets fly hard, and they fly fast. You shoot a .357 in the house, those rounds are going to end up THROUGH your walls, into the neigbors house, through his house, into HIS neighbors house, till it hits some poor lady two houses down.

    This is why, the only gun I ever keep loaded in my house is my Remmington 870 pump-action 12guage shotgun. I use a magazine extension so I can hold 8 rounds. Here are my reasons:

    1. Im good with it.
    2. Im comfortable with it.
    3. Its reliable as hell.
    4. Its incredibly effective in terms of 'knockdown'.
    5. Accuracy: optional.
    6. Ammo is cheap to practice with.
    7. Theres a ton of different rounds to use.
    8. The gun itself is CHEAP cheap.
    9. You can always just smash someone in the face with the butt of the gun if you want.

    and finally

    10. the sound it makes when you jack a shell in, will sober anyone up, and send them running. .

    Dont get a mossberg. Don't get anything but a Remmington 870. (there are different models of the 870)

    I personally have the 'wingmaster' model, but I have seen these new 870 'express' at wal-mart for under 200 dollars. I have never had it jam ONCE in my life, and I barely EVER clean mine, and I've been shooting it since I was about 10 years old.

    The other thing about a 12guage is this: Its fun. While other guns punch a little single hole in a target, 12guages just destroy things. Plus, to get good, you should try 'skeet'. Not only do you get good and confortable with your gun, but skeet is an inCREDIBLY addictive game. .
    '
    Thats my two cents. Im sure rand and Hak will disagree to some extent.
     
  30. KalVasTENKI

    KalVasTENKI Babbling Loonie
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    Yeah, they only last so long..

    Surprisingly the 10 dollar Wal-Mart Moccasins are quality!
     
  31. SUPRsalad

    SUPRsalad Guest

    I forgot to mention also lynk, the other thing about the 12ga, is that, if you're using smaller shot, it doesn't tend to travel very far. Drywall and 2x4's generally scatter it...
     
  32. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    Maybe a shot gun is the way to go.. I've been skeet shooting before and it is really fun.

    Target shooting with a hand gun wasn't that fun really.
     
  33. Pink Floyd

    Pink Floyd Sage
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    I have also heard nothing but good things about the remington 870, get it with a pistol grip and you're pretty set :D
     
  34. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    I went to a different gun shop tonight, Gander Mountain. but I think they are waaay overpriced.

    They had a new S&W sigma 9mm listed for $399. The 870 they had was listed at over 500.

    *sigh* If only I could find a decent price.
     
  35. SUPRsalad

    SUPRsalad Guest

    wal-mart ftw.
     
  36. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    Doesn't walmart just carry hunting rifles/shotguns?
     
  37. SUPRsalad

    SUPRsalad Guest

    Yep, but you know what, the 177$ price I was thinking of was on a 870 express 20ga. Damn fine shotgun, but if you want a 12ga, you might need to spring a little more cash. Sorry bout that.

    edit: actually, know what? You should check pawn shops.. I know its sleezy, but you can usually find a good 870 there. The old models are great too, plus I think they look cooler..
     
  38. Rand Al

    Rand Al Guest

    The best place to get any type of weapon is from a ffl holder even if they are not a dealer as long as they have a ffl they can order one at cost and pass the savings on like get a sig p220 for $500 or a sig 556 swat with ir scope ir light the works basically for $5200! those are new prices though you can get used ones for cheaper.
    As for any home defense weapon the double action revolver is the most reliable to use (Does not jam). Any one that has a strong upper strap and a heavy drum and uses a shotgun style shot is best so if you happen to miss it will not go through walls and hit anyone on the other side and if it hits it will incapacitate or kill the ******* in your house. Reload your own shells and mix rocksalt and shot makes for a good home defense shot!
    The one i use is a ruger vaquero it shoots .45 long colt or .410 shotgun and at 100 yards you can group them good enough to hit the heart every shot! which for a revolver shooting a 255-grain shot is grate.
     
  39. SUPRsalad

    SUPRsalad Guest

    *cringes* yeah, if we were all as good of a shot as rand, I'd say a 44 mag...
    I myself, have never been able to withstand the loudness long enough to get good.. Or afford the rds. Reloading WOULD save some $$ but then you gotta invest in the whole reloading equipment, and its not idiot-proof.. You CAN **** up bad enough to hurt yourself.. Badly.

    Yeah, if you can order through an FFL or dealer that won't mark up on you, you'll definitely be in a better position.

    Shotguns are easy to learn, easy and fun to practice, and when using trap-shot, its relatively cheap. And fun! Get good with bird-shot, then keep it loaded with 00 buck-shot = 12 slugs each shell = 12 slugs at about 72 grains for each of the 12 slugs @ the same velocity as a nine mil @1300 fps x 7 shots (with an extension) = 84 72 grain slugs in less than 4 seconds.. Can't do that kind of damage with ANYTHING semi-auto.. Even if you miss with ALL 84 slugs, the amount of drywall flying around should be enough for your 'assailant' to **** his/her pants, and frantically search for a way OUT of your home..
    Just one of the 84 slugs is enough to drop your ass.. A direct hit with a single shell is irreparable, and hey! You got 6 more!

    edit: theres actually larger extensions than the one I use. 7 is a nice number and easy to mentally count.
    Although, if you are TRULY comfortable with your 'ghetto-blaster' like I am, you KNOW when its empty just by 'feel'.
     
  40. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    I'm starting to think that the $399 really isn't THAT bad of a price..

    I checked gunbroker and there were some sigmas for around $300, but when the FFL dealer around here charges $50 and the other guys charge $40 for shipping so... I'm back at $390.

    But then I went back there last night and there is a nice used compact glock 26 9mm for like $50 more than the sigma.
     
  41. SUPRsalad

    SUPRsalad Guest

    Guns are like anything else.. You pay for quality. Not just in terms of the machining, but in terms of the actual composites and alloys they use to machine they OUT of. . . Glock will cost you, no matter what, but like I said before, I wouldn't buy a CHEAP auto. If its gotta be an auto for you, Its gotta be GOOD.

    edit: this is why I still recommend a shotgun. You get a whole lot more firepower and reliability for your $$.
     
  42. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    I guess I'd like a hand gun in case WI ever gives the option of a CCL..
     
  43. KalVasTENKI

    KalVasTENKI Babbling Loonie
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    Yeah man, heavy... Hahaha
     
  44. SUPRsalad

    SUPRsalad Guest

    good point!
     
  45. hakeem

    hakeem Journeyman
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    Kinda curious as to why "not a mossberg". I packed a mossberg 590(basically a 500 with door breaker barrel and more shots) during service, and I loved how it operated. Everything i needed was right where my fingers laid naturally. And I won't argue it's room clearing ability. Nothing in front of it ever got back up.

    For a family home, I would say 20 ga, with smaller shot, say 6 or 71/2, over the 12 ga buck rounds. Good mention on wall penetration Gemma.20 ga may not pack the wallop , but magnum buck and turkey loads in 20 ga still massive when it counts.
    As for low priced pistols, I normally err to cost being worth it. I prefer military pieces, and some decent pieces abound. I am loving my tokarev tt33, 7.62x25. looks tiny, but is practically a metal piercing projectile. Check it on youtube.
    Purchase military surplus guns from a dealer, not pawn stores tho. Many pawns pick them up as is and have no idea what to look for, passing junk to customers.
    Always a good bet, if store doesn't have a smith either in house, or that they use regularly, keep shopping.
     
  46. SUPRsalad

    SUPRsalad Guest

    Hahahah, I knew I would **** off some Mossberg fanatic, hahah, I just didn't think it would be you. . .
    No, I think Mossberg makes a fine shotgun, I've just always used remington, and the few 'cheap' mossies i've used I really didn't like much. I do know that the military mossbergs are outstanding though, I've never shot one.

    yeah, I know that 7.62x25 round. I've shot it, its about like a 9mm. I think its actually about 32 cal. Someday, when the only ammo left is 7.62 x 39 (ak rounds) I want a smith to build me a double action revolver that carries 7 of them. Can you imagine??

    Tell you what though, if you REALLY want something small and defensive, I've got a sawed off rem 12ga side-by-side.
    3" mags say BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!
    Touching off both barrels at once though, is arguably the loudest thing you will ever hear. .

    also, good morning hak. Glad to see someone enjoys the same coffee rituals that I do.
     
  47. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    Ya.. the dealer ordered a Ja9 for me to try out, so I went there last night... ugh. Garbage.

    I'm just going to wait a couple of weeks and spend the extra on a glock.
     
  48. Rand Al

    Rand Al Guest

    im a Benelli guy for shotguns very accurate well built most of the top shooters in the world use Benelli.
    Link it is good you are going to spend a bit more to get a glock they are reliable and used allover you will get more years out of it and the resail of it will be better so if you want a different model it will hold its value.
     
  49. SUPRsalad

    SUPRsalad Guest

    I agree with the glock. good choice.

    Disagree with Benelli. A fine shotgun, but you gotta understand that rand has VERY expensive taste in weapons. . . *phallic feels very small when I think about rand's new sig*
     
  50. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    I decided to wait to make any gun purchase, because there was a bill being voted on for conceal carry.

    Glad I waited, bill passed and as of 11/1 you can apply for conceal/carry.

    I sent in my application and my CCL should arrive today.

    Went on Black Friday to a sporting good store and picked up a Ruger LC9. Was able to finally take it home last night, heading to the range tonight after work to go through a box of ammo.