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Harrower in Ilsh

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Kylie Kinslayer, Jul 31, 2013.

  1. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Inquisitor
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    How hard would it be to add it to the random spawns at the Ilsh altars? This is one thing I wish would be done. Never had the pleasure of actually running one of these, I hate PvP (flame if ya want :p ). But, I would still like to be able to run the spawn just to do it. Strip away the chance at getting a Champ Spawn Artifact or anything. Just let it pop a little gold and that will be fine.

    Even if it can't be done in Ilsh add it to one of the dungeon revamps or something. Give us perma trammies a way to battle the rascal please...
     
  2. Obsidian

    Obsidian UO Forum Moderator
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    This sounds like fun to me, even if there are no stat scrolls. Maybe it could drop replica Conjurer's Garbs, Trinkets, and Grimoires in addition to the normal item drops and SoT instead of stat scrolls. :). I'm still waiting for a replica drop of those halloween items.
     
  3. CovenantX

    CovenantX Babbling Loonie
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    As long as the champs/harrowers can spawn as paragons & different rewards than fel. (doesn't mean fel needs all the good ones)
     
  4. Promathia

    Promathia EM Bennu Fanclub
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    Or, instead of giving MORE content to trammel, we can, ya know, add those items to the FEL Harrower, so the pvpers have something to fight for again.
     
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  5. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Inquisitor
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    Hmm.... or put an Exodus encounter in Fel somewhere and add those Halloween replicas to him, Fel side only of course ;)
     
  6. Obsidian

    Obsidian UO Forum Moderator
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    Doesn't matter to me... I just want to see the Conjurer's items reintroduced. It has been too long since that Halloween event and they need to come back as a current drop.
     
    #6 Obsidian, Jul 31, 2013
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2013
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  7. Promathia

    Promathia EM Bennu Fanclub
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    Those +5 stats should have been in fel from the beginning.

    I dont care what the boss is, but Fel needs love. We have been fighting over the same scrolls for years.
     
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  8. CovenantX

    CovenantX Babbling Loonie
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    If champ spawns in Ilshenar dropped something Different, or anything that you Couldn't get in fel, I would probably do some of them.

    But you get the same replicas in fel, not to mention the guaranteed 6-12 scrolls from each spawn, it's just not worth it to me to even bother with tram/ilsh spawns.

    Different rewards in each facet would make the content last much longer...
     
    #8 CovenantX, Aug 1, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2013
  9. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Inquisitor
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    I agree. I get tired of taking yellow's and going to see those winged blue rascals lol. Slap a replica tag on 'em and let 'er rip.
     
  10. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    I once had a complex but (I thought) workable proposal that involved every reward spawning in every facet. Just that power scrolls and currently Fel-exclusive artifacts would spawn primarily in Fel, and currently Tram-exclusive artifacts would spawn primarily in Trammel, but no reward would any more be exclusive anyplace.

    Part of this proposal was an Ilshenar Harrower that would be harder than the Fel one and would in effect serve as a world boss. (Which is why I mention it in the present context even though the thread isn't strictly speaking about rewards.)

    Some liked it but I believe the "D15 5uCk5 g1V3 1t a11 2 f3L!" crowd out-shouted the others.

    Regarding the notion of a reward-less boss, I don't think it'll be done without some kind of reward. While it's perfectly appropriate to have reward-less content when there is some kind of storyline or fictional reason to work that content (EM events being the classic example), persistent content I feel should have the chance for some kind of reward, even if it's just, say, a 1 in 100 chance for a few 1m cheques on the corpse, or a small chance for a Legendary Artifact with no negatives at all, or something. (Or in the case of normal monsters the "reward" is standard loot and some gold.)

    -Galen's player
     
    #10 GalenKnighthawke, Aug 1, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2013
  11. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Not to mention that there's more exclusive Fel rewards than people find it convenient to acknowledge; some artifacts from the Harrower, the stuff from the Primeval Lich and Abyssal Infernal champ spawns. I've made the list repeatedly over the years and folks just find it convenient to ignore and to say there's "nothing" and that even the power scrolls don't count.

    Oh well.

    -Galen's player
     
  12. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Inquisitor
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    I can agree with that. I always looked at the Ilsh spawns as a way to learn how to work the spawn without a raid, get your tactics down and then hit Fel and learn to contend with keeping your spawn. So I did them quite a bit before the rewards started spawning on them. When it comes to Harrower's I know people who don't even attempt them due to not having a single clue as to what the spawn entails, add that in with a 90% chance of a raid and lots of folks dismiss it all together. Opening one up in Ilsh could open the door to more folks popping them Fel side, which would give those PvP folks more blues to kill. *shrugs*
     
  13. Promathia

    Promathia EM Bennu Fanclub
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    ......Like what?

    I can name numerous items from Tram worth 50+m. I can hardly name any from Fel, and why is that? Because they are either so old everyone has em, or they are bad and noone wants them.

    As far as items you can only get on certain facet only bosses:

    Fel Only:
    Harrower: Only item worth 10-18m Skull Pole, +25 stats are only ~4.5m per
    Lich: No items worth over 10m
    Abyssal: Magical Door ~10m, Investigator Cloak ~ 40m
    120's: Highest priced being 25m

    Tram Only:
    Meraktus: Tormented Minotaur Statue 30m+
    Twualo: Dread Horn Statue 30m+
    Medusa: Slither 80-150m
    Navrey: Tangle 10-20m

    +
    New Despise Artifacts
    Exodus Encounter items
    Doom Artifacts
    EVERY OTHER BOSS which is EASIER in Trammel



    Tram constantly gets new contant + items. Fel has had to fight over the same scrolls and Replicas for years without anything new. The majority of the usable Replicas all can drop in Ilshenar/ other tram spawns too.
     
    #13 Promathia, Aug 1, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2013
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  14. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Inquisitor
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    I just assumed the revamps were done in the Fel dungeons too. Wow... that shocks me there.
     
  15. Promathia

    Promathia EM Bennu Fanclub
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    Sorry, my bad, just despise. The Shame Revamp + Cove made doing Harrowers in those locations extremely harder btw, with no increase reward.

    I also want to add, back to Risk v Reward....What is the REWARD for taking the risk to do a boss you can also do in Tram in Fel? Whats your reward for the risk? It sure isnt an increased chance on the artifacts. The only thing you get is maybe better loot, all of which is useless now with reforging/cove loot.
     
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  16. CovenantX

    CovenantX Babbling Loonie
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    oh thanks, I thought I was going to have to do it :(.
     
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  17. Lord Lew

    Lord Lew Lore Keeper
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    There is no risk to fel, has not been since insurance was implemented. That and pvp in fel is automated, most of the skill is gone as well. But live with delusions if you must. I see nothing wrong with the OP's request. Most of us do not fear death, we just don't want to deal with the slime.
     
  18. Promathia

    Promathia EM Bennu Fanclub
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    The Risk of Fel is getting killed by another player.

    Add content to tram all you want if you must, but don't take some of the ONLY things we have.
     
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  19. Lord Lew

    Lord Lew Lore Keeper
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    Bah, I've been killed by players in Tram, but it was consensual. You mean ganked by a kill squad in fell right? Or more precisely, killed by some Tweens easy uo script. There is not much real pvp done in fel these days. No offense to the true old school pvp'ers that I know still exist, much respect to you, you know who you are.

    Death entails no risk when you have nothing to lose by it. The Op is not asking for your stat scrolls, only the chance to do the monster without the Mosquitos that inevitably invade.
     
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  20. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Like what, he says, as he cites a list. *chuckles*

    You also misleadingly put many new items from the Primeval Lich spawn into one category. I've personally seen a 6 to 12 or so and I do not know if that's all of them.

    You also underplay the warm security blanket of always knowing that some kind of scroll will spawn -- see CovenantX's post.

    Most people aren't interested in Fel or in PvP; the fact that there was new content put there at all, and you yourself have just provided a list, is quite remarkable in that light.

    At any rate, though my post acknowledges an inconvenient reality, it also points out that I had a proposal which would by most measures improve things.

    *shrugs*

    -Galen's player
     
  21. Orgional Farimir

    Orgional Farimir Lore Keeper
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    Sure we can have a harry in Ilsh, if red characters can have access to tram content.

    I don't think it is fair that I can't take my mystic spellweaving mage to Medusa, Exodus, or the new despise.
     
  22. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
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    PVPers got the arena and hows that working out for the tool waving contest? If your raiding someone, then if they wanted to PVP, wouldn't they hang at Yew Gate? Fel is in the state it is due to the number interested in that playstyle vs the Tram style. Tram gets more perks for that very reason, it's is open 23-7. Fel champs did not start out as running around to find a worked spawn to raid. Started out as running around to see what spawn everyone was working at that time to join in. Protectors would shoot out invites and just get scrolls. If raider guilds just got together and decide "OK next week theese three random days no raiding." Instead for years there was no question of a raid no matter what time the day. There are many nails in the future coffin of UO. Just some are so huge they split the boards. Most those nails are the player's gamestyle and not the product's fualt. The reason more new content is in Tram more then fel is the same reason you can never hold an event in Fel. Or SP could ever have an EM, LOL.

    Sorry, most players want to have fun without it being at anothers expense.
     
    #22 Warpig Inc, Aug 1, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2013
  23. Merus

    Merus Babbling Loonie
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    IMO each facet should have unique content and rewards.

    However, I would love to see some random elements added to the game... Champ/peerless bosses (incognito of course) that randomly spawn any place any time... "Why is that mongbat wondering through Luna shooting out Stygian blue flames??"
     
  24. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Do you mean content or rewards?

    If you mean content then I must wonder why the Abyssal Infernal and Primeval Lich spawns are so under-used.

    Good content there. Under-used because of where it is. Note also that some have opposed new content, specifically the new Virtue v. Vice proposal, on the basis that new content shouldn't be added until other things are fixed:

    http://stratics.com/community/threads/in-concept-virtue-vs-vice.301505/page-7#post-2293673

    Of course then you have the people who say "things are fine, we just need something to fight over!" *chuckles and shrugs*

    If you mean rewards then perhaps you liked the proposal I made some time ago, with a revamped, much-harder Harrower that was spawned in Fel, had a chance of also spawning in Ilsh when it was spawned in Fel, and could (in either its Fel or Ilsh variations) drop any item in the game. It would drop its own items way more often but it could drop anything. (So you could get an Valiant Commendation scroll from it, in Fel. Of course you might also get a Luna Lance from it in Fel, but that's part of the whole risk v. reward thing, right?)

    -Galen's player
     
  25. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    We have that now. The Fel players are unhappy.

    -Galen's player
     
  26. Merus

    Merus Babbling Loonie
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    I think what most Fel players would like is some additional Fel content. What have they had in the last 8 years? Two new champs? Those were nice, but were vastly offset by the PvP fubar that they did to factions. Just my opinion...
     
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  27. Aurelius

    Aurelius Babbling Loonie
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    Sounds a good use for at least one of the Faction bases if they carry through the plan to remove factions....
     
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  28. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    This argument is powerfully undercut by the fact that the content that has been given to Fel has been so under-used that people argue that it in fact does not exist, even though it does. To me that suggests that the Fel population either is not interested in content -- or is too small even to support what content they already have, let alone additional content. There is a proposal now for PvP-based content and as you may or may not have noticed I linked to a post wherein someone appeared to argue against new PvP-based content until other things are fixed or changed.

    Ultimately the problem is not that there's no reasons to PvP or that there's not enough Fel content, it's that most players are not interested in Fel or in PvP.

    -Galen's player
     
  29. Merus

    Merus Babbling Loonie
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    It is not that Fel players don't recognize our facets content, its that we have been doing it for 8+ years with no real variation. Imagine the team side with no Tokuno, Stygian Abyss, TerMur, High Seas, etc. Would tram still have content, sure it would, but it would feel stale.

    Do not confuse wanting a good system for PvP with not wanting a system at all.
     
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  30. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    The post I quoted, here it is again:

    http://stratics.com/community/threads/in-concept-virtue-vs-vice.301505/page-7#post-2293673

    plainly is arguing for no content until what the poster deems problems are fixed.

    That argument is not unique to that poster. I've seen it before, a lot, from the Fel folks.

    I wasn't confusing arguing against specific content with arguing against content. Not in the least bit. The post I quoted unambiguously is arguing against content.

    The 8+ years figure you cite is demonstrably wrong. Stygian Abyss, which incorporated the 2 new highly under-used champ spawns, was done in 2009, which was 4 years ago, not 8. The Fel parts of SA largely were a wasted effort as the stuff isn't used all that often, even on a highly populated server like GL, because it'e Fel that most players aren't interested in. The various attempts to revive it, as I've stated many a time before, have all failed long-term. Publish 16, the subject of more complaining from the residents of Fel than complements even at the time of creation, was the most-successful and even that ultimately failed long-term, because, it's Fel and PvP that most players just have no interest in.

    -Galen's player
     
  31. Merus

    Merus Babbling Loonie
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    This is almost laughable. I don't know you from Adam but I am forced to wonder if you play in Fel. Even on the arguably dead shards champs still get done and raided, including the two SA spawns.

    I would encourage you not to argue content of a facet that you would seem not to play. It's like a fish debating the merits of sand dunes.
     
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  32. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    Players who are red know the choice that you are making when you go red. Fair or not isn't the issue. If you are red, you are stuck in Fel.

    I've done hundreds of the Abyssal Infernal spawn and have never been raided. On Atlantic.

    While I am not a fan of trying to lure players to pvp areas, if it wasn't for scrolls in fel, I see it being even more of a graveyard than it already is.
     
  33. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    The Harrower is pretty boring, though. I think they could do better. If not for PvP, they die pretty quick. Plus it explodes your corpse. I don't think it would be a huge hit in Tram. The art assets aren't that amazing, either. I mean, if you compare Charybdis to The Harrower, it's like, why bother? Charybdis is a pretty cool, and exceedingly long, fight, with better mechanics. Except Charybdis is so difficult to summon and has worthless loot.

    Champ Spawn champions are over 11 years old now. That's some old AI and assets.
     
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  34. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Inquisitor
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    Explodes your corpse? lol cool! But thanks for giving me a heads up on the fight, guess the biggest draw to it then would be the battle to maintain control of it...
     
  35. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    As I have explained repeatedly, I used to spend a lot of time in Fel, then grew out of it. Attitudes, and posts, such as these are a good example of why I grew.

    Nothing in my post said the Fel content wasn't worked at all.

    You, however, likely realize this and merely find it convenient to paint me with a certain brush.

    Nothing I have not seen before.

    -Galen's player
     
  36. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    I don't see why ilsh can't get a harrower spawn with no scrolls, sounds like it'll be used a heck of a lot! Just like the other ones..
     
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  37. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    I can't speak for the other shards but on GL there's an active community of people who do the Ilsh Champ spawns, for the pink scrolls and the artifacts.

    -Galen's player
     
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  38. drcossack

    drcossack Babbling Loonie
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    He has played in Fel. I remember him from Lake Superior. I believe he originally used a swordsman, then switched to archer? Either way, he always played a melee class.

    I've done Ilsh spawns in the past as well. They're quite fun, and definitely easier...particularly Oaks (where everything spawns in a much smaller radius relative to the altar) - on LS Fel back in the day, anyone who did Oaks (or a Harry) was basically saying "RAID ME" in neon lights (think the Vegas strip here.) Personally, I always HATED Fel Oaks. I went on my PK a few times, and I could manage it, but do you have any idea how much fun it is when EVERYTHING goes after you? It's much easier to deal with on a high karma blue - if you get your ass kicked, you can be res'd without consequence (anyone else has to do so away from the spawn) and even get the Ethy Warriors to do it for you later on.

    The Paragons in Ilsh spawns add a challenge as well - it gets quite chaotic doing Cold Blood or Abyss and OoOoOoO'ing in about 1.5 seconds when a bunch of Paragon Dragons and Succubi show up.

    As far as Fel Spawns go, they've all been done to death. The players have the scrolls they need. If they don't (i.e. making a new character), they can always just buy them. There's no real point to doing Champ Spawns outside of the possibility of getting raided, which is where the majority of the (non-scroll) money came from.

    Honestly, whether the spawns get raided or not isn't the issue. Non-PvP'ers won't go to Fel to do them, even if they need the scrolls (which they could just buy), and the PvP'ers don't really care. They may finish it up after raiding, but they'll go just to kill whoever's working it and move on.

    Not so cool when you got affected by the insurance bug way back and part of your suit went with it, though I personally never ran into it. Does the game still have that bug? I'd imagine not, since it existed way back in 2004-2005. You're right though, they are quite boring. You'd need to use 3 tamers minimum - one with a Greater Dragon (a Hiryu was also acceptable for tanking), one with 5 Frenzied Ostards, and one with a Rune Beetle to speed things up while everyone heals the GD. Everyone else (the reds, usually) just defended against raiders.

    -----------------------------

    As for the Harrower in Ilsh, just introduce some Replica items or something (that wouldn't be available on the other champions) and maybe 1-2 other unique rewards. No idea what that would entail though.
     
    #38 drcossack, Aug 3, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2013
  39. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    It would be worth it to hear all the trammies whine when their corpses blew up with all their stuff on it. The humor value alone would be epic.
     
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  40. Orgional Farimir

    Orgional Farimir Lore Keeper
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    The problem with several posts here is the irony. The ONLY thing PvPers have had over the last 11 years is champ spawns and a broken faction system and we were told to deal with it. Yet High Seas was out for a whole 9 months before someone made a post asking for them to upgrade the high seas.

    Could anyone think of what would happen if Tram went 11 years with no new content?

    I know some people have already claimed that the 2 new champ spawns are new fel content, but lets be honest it isn't it is just another lame champ spawn :(. Instead of adding spawns they need to reduce the number of spawns so you don't have to run 15 minutes looking for a fight. Personally I think they need to remove ALL T2A spawns and use that land for some Fel content.
     
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  41. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    By this standard UO's had no new content, ever, in any facet. Just another lame monster, just another lame race, just another lame land mass, just another lame dungeon. Etc.

    Someone, somewhere has considered everything in the game "lame."

    The introduction of elves was criticized by a person or two because elves were not "a new idea." Of course, most monsters and races in most fantasy environments weren't "new," as they are based on legends thousands of years old, in many cases.

    *chuckles and shrugs*

    The reality is that Fel has had new content which the Fel players have under-used and the majority of players have avoided because it is in Fel. It is not content or its lack that is the problem, it is Fel.

    -Galen's player