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Harrower only replicas

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Dragkiris, Jan 25, 2009.

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  1. Dragkiris

    Dragkiris Visitor

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    Ok I know that the Harrower has its own set of replicas that only it drops. This isnt a big deal for the deco item IMO. But the Ari is the harry only. I assume this is because the dev team thinks it is the best replica for anyone. However... I feel that the LT sash is by far a supperior replica to the Ari. 1 10 LRC on a free spot would help anyone who uses regs a ton.
    Let me specify why the 10 lrc is so important.
    1. The 20 lrc mod on a piece is much rarer than an item with 1 more resist boosted (due to mod distribution). I have burnt many val pieces with 17-19 LRC with other great mods or amazing resist. Why is this so important. I'll show you. A standard suit setup for a mage weapon using mage is the AOF, orny, crystaline, inquis, folded steels. Ok there is 60 lrc right there. SO with the 3 pieces left you need 40 lrc. Having 3 armor pieces with 15+ lrc takes 3 seperate mods whereas 2 20 pieces reach 100%lrc and you guessed it takes 2 mods. Therefore leaving 1 extra mod for higher resist, MR, lMC, stat increase. Anyone who has build a mage weapon suit knows its alot harder to find those perfect 20 lrc pieces than a 15 lrc piece with higher resist. The Sash would allow you to get to pieces with 15 lrc (not uncommon at all for val burnt armor) therefore freeing upanother mod in itself just from the 10 lrc you get.
    2. 5 INT- Enough said. Free stat on a slot that has no other use. Benifical to any template. If a mage can be used to boost int to stay at or over 125 while cursed...therefore giving you the extra SDI
    3. 2 MR. This is self explanatory. Any template could benifit form this
    4. There is no other sash with any mods
    5. The Ari has other competitors on its slot. 2 of which give 5 resist therefore, not as good as the Ari but comparable
    6. There is also a Hit point increase shroud. To me personally I have more use for the 5 hpi shroud than the Ari. From my experiance its easier to get 10 more physical resist on a suit than 5 hpi.

    In conclusion, I would argue that the Dev Team should look at swapping the LT gaurd sash to be the harry only drop because it is by far the most useful replica for any template. The Ari is nice but many would argue that the 5 hpi shroud is infact better.
     
  2. Petrify

    Petrify Lore Master
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    Good post. I agree with it all.
     
  3. Dragkiris

    Dragkiris Visitor

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    Any thoughts and input would be appriciated.
     
  4. phantus

    phantus Stratics Legend
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    Soo is the purpose of your request to make sure trammies don't get them and frooshies can control the market on "the most useful replica for any template"?


    Because, if you actually wanted this item then wouldn't it make sense to leave it as it is and drop off numerous spawns as it does now? From what I gather you just want to make sure the most controlling of the UO guilds can control this particular item. Is that the goal?
     
  5. Dragkiris

    Dragkiris Visitor

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    The goal to ensure that the highest reward involves the highest risk. All other replicas are obtainable with NO RISK WHATSOEVER. And no I do not have a ari or gaurd sash replica. I just think that there should be a risk/reward balance.
     
  6. phantus

    phantus Stratics Legend
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    Ahhh. I don't believe in the risk/reward crap. I go to fel to get stuff or pvp. There is no risk in doing what I want to do anyway. That's always made me laugh. It's like pvpers saying they risk logging in and playing. That's what they play for and what they consider fun. I never have understood where someone wants to call it risk. As for them dropping off the harry....I doubt these rewards will ever be changed. The dev team wouldn't want to break a flawless record of adding things to the game and not going back to them and tweaking them.
     
  7. Cear Dallben Dragon

    Cear Dallben Dragon Babbling Loonie
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    QFL!
     
  8. Dragkiris

    Dragkiris Visitor

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    I really dont understand your mentality. I mean without the risk (getting raided and having it took from your group) it just becomes a bland grindfest. Half the fun to obtain the high end items should be getting orginized and setting up defenses and recieving your reward for your efforts.
     
  9. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
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    can I interest you in a chocolate?
     
  10. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    I want chocolate :D
     
  11. Dragkiris

    Dragkiris Visitor

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    I do love chocolate.
     
  12. Dragkiris

    Dragkiris Visitor

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    *realizes his thread has been hijacked by Willy Wonka and his Umpa Lumpas*
     
  13. It Lives

    It Lives Lore Master
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    I agree with Phantus. what is this big risk...?

    You have insured and blessed crap too right?

    You get to be rezed in fel right?

    No risk in fel either.
     
  14. Dragkiris

    Dragkiris Visitor

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    You risk loosing your spawn.
     
  15. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
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    sorry about that :)

    It's an interesting topic and wanted to take part, but so far my replica hunting haul has been 3 SoT and a bunch of chocolate ingredients.

    (well, and a couple of nice rings, some seeds, few loads of leather, enough recyclable metal to open a small smithy, piles of gold ... I'm not complaining, just playing in a lower tax bracket and feeling insecure about it)
     
  16. wrekognize

    wrekognize Guest

    Harrowers are rewarding enough. 7 to 10 25 stat scrolls and even more +20s every time along with the chance of a drop you can only get off harry. Those will stay valuable. The sash needs to remain available at several spawn spots. Just like the Crimson, which has held its value for over 3 years. It gives us a reason to do different spawns so we're not stuck doing the same thing over and over. Also, the obvious reason why this is a bad idea is because the market would be controlled by 1 guild on every server.

    ..
     
  17. I agree with this...

    People quote the "risk vs reward" mantra when they are trying to draw people to Felucca, when in reality they are just trying to draw in easy kills. It was well argued, but don't think the best items should always go to the L33T.
     
  18. In Flames

    In Flames Journeyman
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    7 to 10 25 stats?

    Where did you get that number?

    It's wrong. I've seen 1 25 stat drop. 7-10 = a great harry.
     
  19. Petrify

    Petrify Lore Master
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    I call shenanigans. I do tonnes of harrowers, the lowest ive seen is 5, the highest is 10. Average of 7. You've never seen just 1 drop.
     
  20. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
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    How have the faction-artifacts affected PvP? (or are factions-members even a factor at champ spawns? I'm completely ignorant here)

    It just struck me that they introduced a system to greatly level the curve of maxing out one's items, then immediately followed it up with a new tier of items that are difficult to obtain. Has this impacted the feel of play for my brothers and sisters on the far side of the red moongate?

    (asking in the context as to whether it has changed peoples' opinions on risk-reward)
     
  21. I'd say that was the goal. Just like them arguing about the drop rates of SoT's. Complete control of another multi billion gold commodity is what they're after.
     
  22. Gheed

    Gheed Certifiable
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    Wow thanks for the info. I sold mine for 35 mil and the fella jumped on it immediately. This explains exactly why I should raise the price. It isn't worth alot to me for PvM. Too hard to get and too easy to wear down.
     
  23. Murdok

    Murdok Slightly Crazed
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    I have to agree with Fames... I have seen one harry that didnt drop any +25 stats...... and Ive seen as many as 14. Its all based on the RNG. There is no "set" number that a harrower drops and yes I have done many harrowers. Our best time before the changes was 3.5 min from start to finish (after chaining 6-7) got to love the blue zerg of a harrower!
     
  24. Nexus

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    See that's a strictly blind PvP mentality. I'm not here to flame PvP over PvM over Crafting or Tram vs Fel...But what I am saying is this is the end result that keeps players in a constant clash.

    PvM players Do not care to engage in PvP for any reward or reason, should they have too? No...should they be excluded from any type of game reward because of that choice?, I don't think so.

    Lets look at it from a different perspective....

    If you eliminate the raid factor, Tram rule set spawns are Harder than Fel for the most part, No paragons to deal with. This is an increased level of challenge for the PvM crowd, within their preferred rule set. Fel get's easier spawns but Raids which is the increased challenge within their play style preference.

    My View on it is both Fel and Tram side Spawns should all have the same rewards period...same scrolls, same arties......But the the adjustment should be in difficulty of the Mobs themselves for Tram side spawns to ensure that a decent effort is going into it.
     
  25. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    You have 120 powerscrolls which are fairly expensive in Fel only, any stat scrolls in Fel only, the 10 phys resist shroud in Fel only, and the 0.6-1.0 Scrolls of Transcendence in Fel only. I think you have enough high-priced items for one guild to monopolize.
     
  26. Dragkiris

    Dragkiris Visitor

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    It wouldnt be hard to unmonopolize it. All you would have to do would be get 3 or 4 large tram guild working together. Its just lazyness and wanting things handed to you that stop that from happening.
     
  27. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    I can also verify that harry drop rates you speak of are on the high end. Two weeks ago I recall two harries dropping one 25 each. In Flames is correct. You sir...need some chocolate.
     
  28. Splup

    Splup Guest

    I'v seen 2-3 25:s dropping many times. Also seen 12 25:s at best.
     
  29. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    They arent monopolised as such on great lakes (the harrowers are just the big pvp guilds but they fight each other) apart from the big pvp guilds i only see one trammy guild do champs in fel and that is the guild im in.

    We get raided alot, but get our fair share of scrolls. We dont even get huge numbers doing the spawns for the most part, we just go for the PvM side and if we die once to a red, thats better than 5 times to paragons!!!

    My point of view anyway.
     
  30. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    1. The "risk vs. reward" dichotomy is quite false when it comes to Felucca in general, but particularly so when it comes to Harrower spawns.

    The big Fellie guilds tend to face very little risk at Harrower spawns. Choke points are easy to defend. I remember reading a member of one of these guilds on LS bragging that she typically did her nails during Harrowers.

    To say that "zerg" Fellie guilds dominate champ spawns on most shards is a defensible statement, but an exaggerated one in most cases. To say that they dominate Harrower spawns, however, is not in the least exaggerated. I don't really see the risk in a comparatively easy choke point defense. Basically, unless you lack experience, have half your people suddenly lose connection, screw up badly, or happen to pop the Harrower in Destard, you run no substantial risk of losing your Harrower.

    The Harrower itself poses very little risk in a PvM sense, again barring monumental screw-ups or lack of experience.


    2. It is possible to dispute your proposition that the sash is more useful than the shroud. I've had a much harder time getting maximum Physical Resist on a suit than I've had getting maximum LMC or a good amount of Mana Regeneration. (I can't speak for LRC as I've never played a mage.) So even if one accepts the proposition that the most useful Replica should belong to Felucca, it's possible to argue that the shroud at issue is of considerably more use than the sash at issue.


    3. The basic proposition is that the most useful replica, whichever it happens to be (and you happen to think it's the sash), should belong to Felucca. I disagree strenuously with the proposition.

    Felucca is about PvP. If you want to participate in Factions (as most Fellie guilds on LS seem to these days), you already have access to Faction Artifacts, the most useful items in the game by far. And, excepting the possibility for getting these items through cheating of one kind or another, those are available almost solely through PvP. (I say "almost" because technically farming for silver is PvM.)

    Replicas, by contrast, are PvM rewards. The Harrower is a great monster, but as stated above, the typical Fellie "zerg" guild has more than enough people to ensure that the Harrower itself possesses comparatively little risk.

    So why hand out the "most useful" Replica as a reward for being big and well-organized for PvP?


    4. It would have made infinitely more sense to have the Harrower drop any Champion Spawn Artifact, even ones that are otherwise specific to a Trammel rules-only Champ (so for example, it could drop whatever it is that Merakatus drops). This was Fellies could get all of the Replicas without setting foot in Trammel, which they say they have no wish to do.


    5. Changes in the game and, more importantly, changes in how we think about the game dictate that the very notion of the "most useful" item is a complete myth. I never would've thought Pendants of the Magi would be as widely used as they are. I see Ornaments of the Magician a lot less than I used to. Once upon a time, Necroamncers were consider "it" and Paladins laughed at, now Paladins are accused of being over-powered. Samurai were derided as useless after the Evasion nerf and other nerfs some time back, but now they crept back, then were derided as useless yet again after the "Sampire" nerf but have regained stature very fast in the last couple of months.

    The only logical answer to this, if the intent is to reward Fellies with monopoly over the "most useful" Replica, is to alter what that is. So if, say, some uber template emerges that suddenly makes a Replica currently considered "second tier," such as the Fang of Ractus, seem uber-useful, one day that Replica should be swapped out for whatever the Harrower Replica is.

    And this seems a bit much, requiring the dev team to constantly keep up with whatever the "gimplate of the month" is.

    Or.....they could reward the Harrower with an item that has a very good amount of something everyone needs. And something everyone is always likely to need. Such as, for example, Physical Resist. LRC is easy to get; LMC is subject to a fairly low cap (40); Mana Regeneration is subject to diminishing returns. But Physical Resist is always going to be useful and is at least a little harder to get than certain other properties. With one item, this shroud, you have 4 more PR than a dark gray cloak/robe combo.

    And this, of course, is what they did....Rewarded Fel with a Fel-only Replica that is of eternal and recurring use. Every template has the need to stop a sword thrust into the character's heart. Not every template needs LRC, not every template needs MR, even.

    But they all need to get to 70+ Physical Resist.


    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Regrettably, the team has already done what you want.....Given what is arguably the most useful Replica to Felucca.


    -Galen's player
     
  31. Dragkiris

    Dragkiris Visitor

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    Alota of that makes sense but look at this. The 2 mr you get on the sash can free up a mod for the extra 10 physical in itself. And on top of that there are 2 other robes with 5 resist.
     
  32. ColterDC

    ColterDC Visitor

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    I always laugh when some cheater tells everyone else to stop being lazy.

    :loser:
     
  33. Dragkiris

    Dragkiris Visitor

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    I have repeatedly offered to show you what real skill means in pvp. I told you I'd help you out by videoing my whole desktop for the whole fight... you seem to have some anger issues I dunno why. Maybe you didnt insure your suit and a red looted it or maybe you thought you could pvp just get slammed everytime you try. I really dunno but its pretty sad and everyone sees through the little charade you play here.
     
  34. Nexus

    Nexus Site Support
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    I do too but even if they aren't cheaters and say this I still get a chuckle out of how they refuse to accept PvM as just as valid and equally important play style as PvP.

    I run both sides of the moongate, I've seen both sides of the fence so to speak...I see no logical or valid reason why one play style should be set up with Bait to draw and lure those not interested in it to do so.. PvP, namely Factions have their arties now...I'm wondering when PvM is going to get their 120's since the Doom argument is invalid now.
     
  35. Dragkiris

    Dragkiris Visitor

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    Not all the arties have faction counterparts. Granted the major ones do (orny, inquis, crystalline, crimmy, primer, spirit of totem) to bad they didnt make a AOF faction that woulda been sweet. But really though trammys can wear those. You can open up a free trail account and farm your points, never go back to fel and be set. So this arguement is really invalid.
     
  36. ColterDC

    ColterDC Visitor

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    By real skill do you mean the ability to download a bunch of 3rd party programs?


    Please.... That would prove nothing. You can hide any program you're running if you know what you're doing.


    No anger issues here. If anything I'm just fed up with all the rampant cheating in this game and I'm really tired of admitted cheaters such as yourself trying to talk as though you're some big man, when in reality you're probably a 5 foot nothing punk who would wet his pants if he thought he might have to fight me in RL.

    Actually, I'm pretty sure alot of people feel the same way I do. I see numerous posts every day begging EA to do something about all the cheating.

    The truth is everyone here sees through your charade, you know the one about benefiting your playstyle at the expense of everyone else. I think a few guys in this thread have already called you on your usual BS.
     
  37. phantus

    phantus Stratics Legend
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    My personal favorite one was where he got a 3 day ban for scripting taming and came to the boards to cry about it then make threats. Hilarious. This thread still stinks of me me me.
     
  38. I say nay to the idea.

    What I do suggest is...

    Create an alternative champion for the trammel side equal to or harder than the harrower. Mirror the rewards (replicas only) to each corresponding champ (which already is being done).

    For fel, increase the durability of dropped replicas from 150 to 255. In trammel, keep the durability at 150.

    This way, Felucca has an incentive for PvPers and PvMers to get higher durability replicas and it maintains a market within it's own community (which may also extend into others who hunt a lot).
     
  39. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
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    It would all make a good point for the switch but for one thing. Your talking about an item that breaks. Its only been a few weeks and those that are using there replicas are tearing them up fast.

    As also the point of until the cheats are fixed or the game is policed there should be nothing that can be solely gotten by a blue or red.

    And if there should be any new shard launched it should be one for players that are 35 years old or older. I know I'd give up the 9 years on my shard to transfer to one not soiled by those that can't buy booze or smokes.
     
  40. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Lol, that was one of my favorite threads ever posted, :D
     
  41. Argumentatively, I've been in vent with guys twice my age that cry louder than a prepubescent 10 year old boy who talks tough s*** in video games then losing everything to a one hit kill attack by another pvper.

    While I can't say I'm exactly legal for booze, I do drink it quite often and yes I hold my own :lick:
     
  42. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    Knock it off. *stares*
     
  43. Hey it was a joke :D
     
  44. Dragkiris

    Dragkiris Visitor

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    So does that mean everyone who could kill you uses 3rd party programs. And how exactly would I hide those programs from my task bar and stuff. Im sure I could figure out a way but that would be way more effort than its worth. All I hear is "I cant pvp so I talk **** then avoid everyone".
     
  45. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Or he could simply "forget" to turn on the program while he videos the fight ;)
     
  46. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    We are done here. Keep your fighting on your shard forums. I will let the forum mods sort it out. Uhall is not the place.
     
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