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Has UO become WAY to complicated?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Guest, Feb 16, 2008.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Hail: I have 92 resistance, with 45 fire resistance, and armor modifier of 3 to the 5th power. Now if i am attacking a fire elemental with a base fire damage of 34, and i am using my Ice Mace, with fire counter attack of 5.7, and the fire elemental cast fire bolt on me, and i block it with my Kite Sheild of fire protection, at intensity of 8.2, how much damage do i take?

    It seems that almost all of the FoF questions require you to be a brain surgeon to have any idea what they are talking about. IMHOP, the game has gone way overboard with adding all this modifiers, and other junk into the game. It was a lot better the way it used to be. Want to kill dead stuff, get an undead slayer, and so on. Maybe i am just to stupid to figure it all out. hehe
     
  2. Korso

    Korso Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Hail: I have 92 resistance, with 45 fire resistance, and armor modifier of 3 to the 5th power. Now if i am attacking a fire elemental with a base fire damage of 34, and i am using my Ice Mace, with fire counter attack of 5.7, and the fire elemental cast fire bolt on me, and i block it with my Kite Sheild of fire protection, at intensity of 8.2, how much damage do i take?

    It seems that almost all of the FoF questions require you to be a brain surgeon to have any idea what they are talking about. IMHOP, the game has gone way overboard with adding all this modifiers, and other junk into the game. It was a lot better the way it used to be. Want to kill dead stuff, get an undead slayer, and so on. Maybe i am just to stupid to figure it all out. hehe

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I agree 100%. I was looking at the FoF myself and after reading a few lines on upgrades they are making to the game. I found myself thinkging " what the heck does all that mean" So of course I stopped reading because it means nothing to me.

    They made this game so easy for everyone to get what they want, why not make the game easy to understand?
     
  3. Guest

    Guest Guest

    You're fine. I just think you're perhaps over complicating it. If you want to kill undead stuff, all you need to do is grab an undead slayer. I'll admit it'd be nice if we had a tool in game to add up properties on suits, but nothing requires you to go through much math. The option is available to you, but it's certainly not required. As long as you know basic stuff such as the caps and lower mana cost lowers mana on specials and spells you're fine.
     
  4. it's only complicated if you mess with armor and weapon property's.
    if you just grab your gear and head out it's easier [​IMG]
     
  5. "I'll admit it'd be nice if we had a tool in game to add up properties on suits"

    We do.

    It's called KR.
     
  6. deadite

    deadite Sage
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend It's My Birthday

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    Honestly, I've never really fully adjusted to the AOS style of UO either. I refuse to template out the best character because I hate dealing with all the variables. I too long for the old days when you could get equipped quickly and go out and risk it... when you died, there was a chance you'd lose it all, but it wasn't that big of a deal because there was always a GM Blacksmith or two hanging out around the smithy near the graveyard waiting to take orders from other players. *sigh*

    But I was the same way with DAoC... I loved the game, but it gets ridiculous trying to compete in RvR because some people like doing the math to completely optimize their avatars. Not me. I just wanted to level up and then go play some RvR... and feel like it was skill, not gear, that let me best other players. I wasn't playing the game "wrong" and neither were they, but our playstyles weren't compatible and it ended up driving me away when most of the other casuals left the game.

    MMO's sadly have no "David and Goliath" element. In UO, WOW, DAoC, whatever, Goliath is *always* going to stomp little David into the ground.
     
  7. Kaj

    Kaj Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

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    <blockquote><hr>

    Honestly, I've never really fully adjusted to the AOS style of UO either. I refuse to template out the best character because I hate dealing with all the variables. I too long for the old days when you could get equipped quickly and go out and risk it... when you died, there was a chance you'd lose it all, but it wasn't that big of a deal because there was always a GM Blacksmith or two hanging out around the smithy near the graveyard waiting to take orders from other players. *sigh*

    But I was the same way with DAoC... I loved the game, but it gets ridiculous trying to compete in RvR because some people like doing the math to completely optimize their avatars. Not me. I just wanted to level up and then go play some RvR... and feel like it was skill, not gear, that let me best other players. I wasn't playing the game "wrong" and neither were they, but our playstyles weren't compatible and it ended up driving me away when most of the other casuals left the game.

    MMO's sadly have no "David and Goliath" element. In UO, WOW, DAoC, whatever, Goliath is *always* going to stomp little David into the ground.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Many people want to win. And at the top level of PvP skills really do matter. Even with the best suit you will die in less than 10 seconds if you don't know what to do.
    What you do is step into a Championship boxing match with your Nike Air shoes on and some $5 boxing gloves and expect to kick some ass. But alas, Mike Tyson will first knock you out and then even bite your ear off.

    And it's logical. If you spend a lot of time training and compiling a perfect suit you will logically have advantages. And it's good that all that effort is rewarded. I think it would be VERY bad if you could get beaten easily by someone who has spent 1/3rd of your time training.

    If you are a casual gamer it's best to stick to PvM or RP PvP.
     
  8. [​IMG]Watch the Damage numbers floating off you and your opponent? (yellow / red) damage taken / damage done ....
    Health bars for running totals (analogs ... not digital numbers ...precise numbers in your stat gump)

    ie ... all that "math" is done for ya ...
    Once you learn, from experience, how to stay alive while the boggie dies ...
    all ya need look for ... piece by piece ... is larger numbers ...
    You do know which numbers are "bigger" ...lesser ... equal ... yes?
    You alive ... boggie dead ... = good
    You dead ... boggie alive = bad ... [​IMG] .... yes ?

    Each "new piece" you ever see ... compare the numbers straight across...
    You do know which numbers are "bigger" ...lesser ... equal ... yes?

    After awhile ...you wont see as many equal or better pieces ...
    You still dieing before the boggie ?
    need to change HOW you fight ...
    cause good chance ...the armor and weapons
    are NOT enough ... to win ever time.

    good chance ...the armor and weapons
    are NOT enough ... to win ever time
    solo
    maybe get some other players ...
    help and/or advice and/or both ...

    Like armor and weapons numbers ...
    Not all players are ... lesser ... equal ..."better" ... yes?
    (compared to selfs results)
    Pick the "better" ones to copy and take advice from ...
    [​IMG]
    Of course ... This process ...alot more difficult

    not as many numbers .... written on the players actions

    G'Luck !! [​IMG]
     
  9. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Yea. Ever since that crazy nintendo era these games just keep coming up with numbers and slayers and things that are just too much to keep track of. What every happens to the days of ball and paddle. Now those were games!

    Seriously, if you can't add to 100 or figure out the max properties of your suit you really should go back to shoot and ladders. I swear, UO is the only game you hear this stuff. Diversity is usually a good things but here(on the boards anyway) you'd think it was the worst thing ever thought of.
     
  10. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Totally agree. I so miss the days when you could throw on GM armor and grab a GM wep and run around trying to kill monsters and players. I've played for almost 7 years and there is sooooo much of the new stuff that I just don't know it blows me away. If I were a new player I wouldn't know what to think.
     
  11. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Although I love number crunching more than most, I also think there is something to be said about having systems of simplicity if you want to draw in new and/or casual players. When I first started, I remember it took me a long time to realize what resists/damage types were all about ... there's not really any visual queue to let a starting player know that physical resist is what's important when battling basic monsters. And pong, as much as it is laughed at, can even now be fun. Not everyone wants to be treating the world as a puzzle ... sometimes you just want to turn off your brain and wander around a fantasy world.

    (I want the complexity and the visibility into it, but I also sometimes just want to be able to ignore it)
     
  12. The math is abstracted from the casual player, so no I don't think UO is too complicated. You can choose to go through all the math or you can just play.
     
  13. Korso

    Korso Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    The math is abstracted from the casual player, so no I don't think UO is too complicated. You can choose to go through all the math or you can just play.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Im going to have to disagree with this comment. I can't just play because if I just grab any armor I'd get my butt kicked by a freaking mongbat! If you ment grab the best items you can find that you "think" are good. Then maybe I can agree with you, but i'd still be strugling a bit.
     
  14. Sam the Scribe

    Sam the Scribe Visitor

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    <blockquote><hr>

    ...but it gets ridiculous trying to compete in RvR because some people like doing the math to completely optimize their avatars...

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Maybe the answer to this was to never publish the formulas for these things. Call me lazy cause I dont wanna spend time crunching numbers on these complex formulas, but there should be some mystery to how things work.

    I remember back when you couldn't even tell what kind of ring/bracer you got from loot unless someone with Arms Lore checked it out for ya and told you what it was.

    Safe Travels, Sam
     
  15. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Hail: I have 92 resistance, with 45 fire resistance, and armor modifier of 3 to the 5th power. Now if i am attacking a fire elemental with a base fire damage of 34, and i am using my Ice Mace, with fire counter attack of 5.7, and the fire elemental cast fire bolt on me, and i block it with my Kite Sheild of fire protection, at intensity of 8.2, how much damage do i take?

    It seems that almost all of the FoF questions require you to be a brain surgeon to have any idea what they are talking about. IMHOP, the game has gone way overboard with adding all this modifiers, and other junk into the game. It was a lot better the way it used to be. Want to kill dead stuff, get an undead slayer, and so on. Maybe i am just to stupid to figure it all out. hehe

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Over Complicated? Probably not, however it has been a huge detriment to the game. When you have to spend more time doing math than actually playing the game, it looses a lot of luster. I do miss the mystery that used to surround UO when noone knew the exact numbers behind how everything worked. The discussions on which was better overall, a Katana or a [censored] Sword, and folks of both camps chiming in.

    The worthwhile discussions and theories far outweighed the math. If I wanted math with my game well... that's every other game out there, I truly miss the mystery.

    As we can all see, making UO more like all the other number crunching games out there hasn't done much for it's subscriber numbers...

    ~Rai
     
  16. davebobbit

    davebobbit Guest

    Isnt the whole essence of these dnd style games that we are rolling complicated combinations of dice to "see what happens next"?

    If you didnt have all this, then we would just be saying "right, my 10 beats your 8, I win!!"
     
  17. Babble

    Babble Guest

    Isn't that what the game master is for to decide what happens after the roll?

    I agree that the game gives too much information in numbers.
     
  18. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Please. ts not 1/5 as complicated as you make it out to be. If you can understand the basic concept of fractions then you can get a rough idea of any kind of damage you would be doing.

    It also helps to not make up things to make it seem more complicated.
     
  19. Guest

    Guest Guest

    The game became too complicated when it went item based around the time of Age of Sorrows...I mean Shadows.
     
  20. I would argue that any magic item system that is actually versatile will be complicated. With the UO system, my scribe, my warrior, my mage, my smith, etc. can all have different equipment choices. Heck my scribe mage has several sets of armor based on what she wants to do (scribe, high luck, high mana regen, high resists, etc.). There is complication when people want a set that maxes every property, but I've never been a maximizer. I would argue that unless you are seriously into PvP or soloing peerless/dark fathers, you don't need to worry as much about maximizing a set.

    I also play tabletop games, and every rpg that has meaningful combat choices also has a level of complexity. Compare the weapon/combat choices for DnD (combat is the game) and WoD (a storytelling system that focuses more on intrigue). Would you prefer a game where one random roll determines who lives and who dies? Probably not.

    While I like the numbers in game and how they tell me exactly what something does, it is possible to use a system that humans have used for years on complicated systems like sword crafting and warfare. It is called trial and error. Grab some equipment and go out and see if it works. Then try something else. When you find something that seems to work well for you, congrats!
     
  21. Sneaky Que

    Sneaky Que Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

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    <blockquote><hr>


    Has UO become WAY to complicated?


    [/ QUOTE ]

    No, UO has just always been a complicated game (even pre-AoS), its hard for it not to be complicated with so much content and such a big world. The real world is complicated, why shouldn't UO's be?
     
  22. Korso

    Korso Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>


    Has UO become WAY to complicated?


    [/ QUOTE ]

    No, UO has just always been a complicated game (even pre-AoS), its hard for it not to be complicated with so much content and such a big world. The real world is complicated, why shouldn't UO's be?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Uo was never a complicated game. You had your basic items with Vanq, Power, Might, and a few others and that was it. You knew what you had by the name and didn't have to crunch numbers to figure it out.

    As for your real world is complicated quote.... I thought the majority of people played games to get away from the real world. If I wanted to play something complicated as the real world, I wouldn't be here. I'd be doing complicated things in real life.
     
  23. Guest

    Guest Guest

    hmmm ... for some of us, being awash in numbers is the very summit of tranquility, for they are far too rarely encountered in real life.
     
  24. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    You knew what you had by the name and didn't have to crunch numbers to figure it out.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Crunch numbers? Really? Do you HAVE to know what your DCI is to know how to improve it? All you need to know is what is best, and what is not, so rather than read a word you have to remember the string "15%" just like before you knew fortification was not as good as invuln. Do you need to know the formula for hit/miss to know that more DCI is better than less? No you dont.
    The complexity is more or less the same, just more properties are involved.

    Weapon/armor properties in the past had numbers tied to them just like the items we have now, the only difference now is quantity of properties and lack of immersion.

    You need only the most basic of math and language skills to easily understand this game.
     
  25. <blockquote><hr>

    Uo was never a complicated game. You had your basic items with Vanq, Power, Might, and a few others and that was it. You knew what you had by the name and didn't have to crunch numbers to figure it out.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Item Identification. Taste Identification. Counsellors. Seers. IGMs. SGMs. I mean, check this out: UOGuide - Counselor Terms of Service. Oh, it was complicated, just not transparent. There is more information available about the game. Today, if you want to , you can immerse your self in numbers. Today, you can read archive Town Crier posts, if you want to. You can also just sally forth in Ilshenar in the hopes of a minor artifact. It's as complicated as you want it to be.
     
  26. Guest

    Guest Guest

    **giggles**

    I would hope ya do not get ye butt handed to ya by a wee mongbat ! [​IMG]

    I pretty much ignore the math %%%%%%%%%%% just annoy me. I keep thinking some math pervert put all that into our world and I am not into it at all. But that really does not complicate my mind cuz I just fricken ignore it..course I do not pvp...so maybe that is why I can ignore the math %%%%%. If I pvm, well if my oldies could off whatever before they can off whatever now, if same beasties, although I might look to see if I got some fire %%% resist on me ifn I am going to play off the fire eles. . but for most part I ignore that %%%.

    For myself UO became more complicated MORE so with ML. The wonder recipes...hem us in box us in from making things...crafter that is a crafter is NOT a monster basher...yet this and that ingredient plus more ingredients, oft rare ones, now toss in rarer woods finds, rarer ore and granite finds, to where even the simplest deco item *like hovering wisp* or *insert whatever we get to make here* ends up this drugery boring endless list of do a then do b then c then d and then fail or break item..go hunt up that resource again and again..or since you can not kill that go buy it for a fortune per ingredient and cost of making it be higher than players want to pay for it etc.

    UO has us all...lately too hemmed in or boxed in, roadblocks too many set up all over, just to do any crafting has made this game more *complicated* not so much in %%%% but turning making items into boring drugery instead of simpler ways to get items made...like gasp.........buy butter and cocoa off farmer npcs and bingo you gm chefs will make the new chocolates...instead of hunt down this kill that do this quest get x amt of these items to make THE item ...if we do not enable you to fail at 120 skills and 100 lore and gm this..........etc.

    To me that makes *complexities that really do not have to BE there...makes one feel they are playing a game of jumping thru too many hoops to get anything accomplished, offering carrot on the stick pie in the sky wonder recipes with ingredients too complicated to get or buy or get enough of, to make for self and other players without more hurdles to jump over........IF ya find or get the stuff ya need be it blue granite rocks for valorite tables, frostwood to make an arbitor, captured esscences for deco only hovering wisp, kill paragons for just making chocolates....ie that is way to complicated oft to point of drugery or impossibility lately just to get stuff DONE ! &amp; *you must wait to perform ....and your spirit lacks cohesion tossed in for good measure, more hurdles.

    So my concept of complicated is just merely there is often too much bs added into the game, just to get from point a to final product/skill or result we want, to make anything happe or become crafted in the way we hoped it would go or be made, anymore.


    But then atm, my spirit lacks cohesion ! [​IMG]
     
  27. Guest

    Guest Guest

    You can certainly choose to ignore all the numbers and formulas that are published in the FoF. You can still play the game and have fun.

    However, ever since UO has been around. It has been based on numbers. Perhaps it was more transparent in the past, but any game that has chances to do / create something it is going to be number based.

    Some of us like to see the formulas. I'm glad that there is at least one formula discussed in every FoF. It helps us get a glimpse of the inner workings of the game, which gives a better understanding of how things work. It gives us the chance to maximize our templates and creations.

    The formulas aren't that complicated. I would dare say an 8th grader could do them easily for homework. I understand that math might make your eyes glaze over and you can't focus on what it means. That doesn't mean that it applies to all of us.

    I suspect that it is a feeling of being left out that is troubling you. That if you can't or don't want to look at the formulas then you can't play to your potential. Someone who knows the formulas will out play you. That isn't the case. The game was still played the same way on Thursday as it was on Friday the day the FoF came out.

    Go out and have fun. Don't sweat the formulas. The folks that like them aren't gaining an unfair advantage over you, were just trying to gain a better understanding of the mechanics of the game. I specifically asked for more formulas in a Town Hall I went to last year.

    So, if you don't like formulas don't pay them any attention. Your really not missing out on anything. Just because you don't like them or they make you feel inadequate, doesn't mean that others feel the same as you. I love seeing the formulas in FoF.

    Q
     
  28. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Go out and have fun. Don't sweat the formulas. The folks that like them aren't gaining an unfair advantage over you, were just trying to gain a better understanding of the mechanics of the game.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Exactly.
     
  29. You can equip crafted items and head for mid-level hunts.
    You certainly HAVE to go through some calculations for high levels.
    And you HAVE to go a little bit crazy mixing and matching the perfect PvP suit for your template.

    Yeah, it should be a tad bit easier but then again just install KR and build your suits with that client.
     
  30. Babble

    Babble Guest

    So for my elder bard that has gm resist and refuses to wear armor and ignores formulas.
    110 music 115 provo 110 peacemaking and dies to any bigger monster in 2 hits.
    What should an elder Bard hunt ignoring formulas?
    GM resist gives 40s in resists, too bad devs forgot to say that sucks totally.
    You know with 100 music and 80 provo I knew I had good chances provoking anything.
    These days with elder music and elder provocation i hardly can provoke any high end monster anymore. Your skill is too low to provoke this creature.

    I really try to ignore aos numbers, but that is the reason I bought no expansion of UO. Overpowering things with no real balancing and hinting for the next best thing, which wow did still better for me then.
     
  31. Belmarduk

    Belmarduk Guest

    Use KR and you see many stats in the undermenu of your paperdoll.
     
  32. Babble

    Babble Guest

    I just ignore most of the aos crap and play my own niche.

    Also though means I hardly keep up what EA implements though the changes to gm armor were a big step in the right direction.