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Has UO jumped the shark?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by onthefifty, Oct 19, 2009.

  1. onthefifty

    onthefifty Guest

    just throwing it out there in regards to this imbuing skill

    now that weve been 1-1/2 months in the results of 120 imbuing are showing up

    50 ep ecru rings with 1/3 and 15 dci

    kryss's with 50 hit lightning hld hla 40 di.

    bokuto's with perfect killer attributes

    u name it.

    these things are powdered upto 255 so they will last for a good long time.

    in my opinion these items should be un insurable at the least, especiallly in a fel ruleset.

    i dont know about you but it looks out of control to me.
     
  2. I dont know about out of control, but I'm loving it. Its helping the vendors who farm the stuff, but dont use the ingrediants.. It's helping to even the field in Fel.. just to name a couple of good things about it.
    Even though the playing field in Fel will never be completely even as long as there are hacks, but thats another subject.

    I use to run around with whatever wep I could afford at the time and jewels, the same goes for a lot of people I know.. while others ran around with just insane items that they paid RL cash to get, in some cases.
    Being able to make items with better mods helps even those things out. Now I run around with an imbued item that is so much better than the one I use to have and weapon wise I am pretty even with those who paid cash or millions and millions of gold for theirs.
    There are still godly weapons out there that came from runics that even imbued items cant replace and those will never break and those are insured or even blessed.
    I, for one am happy with the imbuing and the results its producing.
     
  3. NBG

    NBG Lore Master
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    This would make the game more balanced between the have and have not? Why would this be out of control. Before SA top rare gear is only accessible to people who has the resources to make them or willing to spend real life money for such items.

    Now everyone who is willing to farm for the imbue materials can have access to such item. If you ask me, what imbue has brought to UO is more accessibility for people to tryout PvP and be close to enough to compete with people using uber runic item.

    Runic crafted items (with the right mods) is still better than what imbue skill can produce.
     
  4. Aristillus

    Aristillus Guest

    I think it's a good thing. If everyone is running good gear it comes down to player skill and not lack of items. Besides imbuing is not as amazing as some believe. Example, that ring you listed can not even be made with imbuing, it has like 570 weight in properties. You can still get better items through other means than you can from imbuing.
     
  5. maroite

    maroite Guest

    Only... to get runic tools the legit way is way more time consuming and you can custom build the PERFECT suit with imbuing.

    Really I when I first thought about imbuing, it seemed neat, but for other crafting skills... its almost as if they're just support skills for imbuing now... Runics, in all honesty, are not worth getting when you can custom build your suit to be perfect.

    Some people may have used RL money for stuff, but what about the people who did BoD's for years to have a chance to get a runic tool, and then have a chance to make some decent armor to use? Or weapon or farmed bracelets for that perfect bracelet?

    Imbuing slaps them in the face, and since it brings you closer to these people who work hard for what they have, you're fine with it? I don't have great gear on my toons, but I at least respect those who take the time to get runics and materials and make their gear.

    That ring can and has been made. There was a person in the trade forums selling one.
     
  6. Chad Sexington

    Chad Sexington Lore Master
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    They almost got it perfect. All imbued items should've been Cursed and the ingredients should've been easier to get.
     
  7. Masuri

    Masuri Seasoned Veteran
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    "Has UO jumped the shark?"

    I'd say UO jumped the shark with the Tokuno expansion. I love the Tokuno expansion, and still live in Zento, but it was a transparent stunt from start to finish.

    Imbuing isn't jumping the shark at all. It's just one more in a long line of power creep problems for UO -- evening the playing field between richbies and poorbies in PvP and PvM, at the expense of the crafting system.
     
  8. maroite

    maroite Guest

    Eh... I don't think they should be cursed or uninsurable. It would be silly to get a suit, go out, and die once only to have to leave and go get another suit. In the beginning of UO, it didn't matter because most suits were store bought, but where you have to farm for mats and such, its a little different.

    Nor does it make sense to have to stock pile suits just to be able to play.

    Imbuing has its problems, just like a lot of stuff with the expansion but making the items cursed or uninsurable isn't the answer imho.
     
  9. Aristillus

    Aristillus Guest

    50 EP = 200 weight
    1 FC = 140
    3 FCR = 120
    15 DCI = 110
    Total: 570 weight

    Show me where this is for sale?
     
  10. maroite

    maroite Guest

    My bad it was 20% LRC not 50% EP. On a side note, you can easily make that ring with 25% EP and the same on bracers.

    Regardless, its relatively easy to get max resists, max hci/dci, fcr/fc, EP, and a variety of hp/mana regen/increase with imbuing. A LOT easier than trying to farm runics and get lucky.
     
  11. Aristillus

    Aristillus Guest

    I didn't think it could be made and if one was for sale like that I wanted to know how it was made :)

    I agree that imbuing makes it a lot easier to complete a decent suit. And I think that it is a good thing that higher end items are available to more players.
     
  12. mjolnir131

    mjolnir131 Guest

    90% of the examples of imbue being horribly overpowered can't be made.and i see allot of 60ep 3/1 rings with 12 and higher DCI or HCI things like that. stuff in the 600 range and higher. this whole "make super power on demand" is a myth. worse yet it's an outright lie. Imbue is weak well not weak but average it has a very long way to go to being overpowered
     
  13. Xenobia

    Xenobia Lore Keeper
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    Sounds to me like someone who used to have all the L33t gear is now upset that others can compete? Take the insurance off arties and curse them if you are going to ask for it to be done to imbued items.
     
  14. ingsmsico

    ingsmsico Visitor

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    what's the big deal? you sound like a warcraft player......
     
  15. Pawain

    Pawain Crazed Zealot
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    I find it hilariuos that the item mentioned in the starting post was made from crafting and not imbuing.

    Maybe the OP should include a pic of the item in question when making a post.

    Imbuing is killing crafting
    Oops my example was a crafted item


    The sky is falling
    Oops I am just getting taller
     
  16. Aristillus

    Aristillus Guest

    I think that over all Imbuing is great and works as intended.
    It bridges the gap of have/have not, by making better gear more affordable. It makes custom tailoring of goods easier. But it doesn't take away the power of the smith and the tailor that still can make items that are superior to imbuing.

    I don't think it is imbuing or EA that has ruined crafting as much as the fact that it seems most people have a smith of their own. If most everyone has their own crafter then the need for the services of others is limited.
     
  17. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    Imbuing is fine.
     
  18. onthefifty

    onthefifty Guest

    nope, not me. i'm only in the game 2-1/2 years. sorry bout the mis quote on the 50 ep ring.

    i just put this thread out there for discussion purposes. i'm not flaming imbuing or supporting it. i just wanted to spark an honest discussion.

    i saw some good points so far in support of imbuing which make much sense.

    don't be cynical. i live in nyc. ONLY I'M ALLOWED TO BE CYNICAL.

    p.s. i did see the kryss on a guy at luna though

    :D:D:D
     
  19. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    That kryss is only 3 mods other than DI. Out of control? No. Nice? Sure.
     
  20. Masuri

    Masuri Seasoned Veteran
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    Yes, because only WoW players discuss things like balance and crafting and stats.
     
  21. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    Part of the problems with forums like this are people who agree with people who have no frigging clue about what they are talking about. I appreciate you *admitting* being full of it, but it does not excuse the fact if it starts that ball of crap rolling downhill. Trying to cover up for being called out is no better, and only goes to show the extent people will go to misrepresent aspects within the game.

    For the record...have you tried to gather 10 arcanic runestones yet? I have, and I can honestly say that I could make the money to buy kits quicker than it takes to gather ten of these dang things to imbue just one property on an item.

    Tell you what...once you work your imbuer up to 120 and farm all the required elements to make one item, come back here and revisit this thread...and tell us all what you really think.
     
  22. maroite

    maroite Guest

    Exaggerate much? Not even 90%. The truth of the matter is you can custom build any suit you want with imbuing, with relative ease because you can put whatever you want onto the items.

    You CAN NOT do this with any other crafting skill.

    Imbuing also DOES NOT require a runic tool gained through time consuming BoD production and hand ins.

    Other Crafting skill DO require runics to make even remotely similar gear, and then on TOP of that its left to the RNG to make a decent item. You could go through 5 Barbed Runics, and not get a single useful piece of armor.

    Imbuing, you pick up the item, said reagents, and poof your magic uber item appears.

    This shouldn't be a discussion about player wealth, nor what one person has and what another doesn't.

    It should be a discussion about the gross variance in crafting skills.
     
  23. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    Gee...do you feel this way because you are a thief...or because you play siege? Bias is a wonderful thing no?
     
  24. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    Please stop talking. If you had some semblance of a clue you would realize that imbuing takes time and effort. I spent 4 hours *preparing* items to be imbued to make a new suit for a guildie...and that time does not include resources for imbuing. All in all the three items I imbued would take roughly 10 hours plus of resource gathering to accomplish...that is on top of my 4 hours spent preparing the items and item template.

    That is 14 hours...and I figure my time is worth $20 per. That is $280 bucks, or 560 million. Do you understand the flaw in your logic?
     
  25. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    Imbuing, you pick up the item, said reagents, and poof your magic uber item appears.

    For the first couple of mods, sure, but after that, trying to max out the suit becomes VERY expensive VERY fast as the success rate PLUMMETS. And then to totally max out that armor, you'd want to enhance it which probably WILL set you back to square one SEVERAL TIMES per piece attempted in the process.

    Not sure what version of Imbuing you're playing with, but I'm certain it's NOT the one that the rest of us use on the prodo shards.
     
  26. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    No point in it Dermott...its obvious they do not even have imbuing on a char
     
  27. maroite

    maroite Guest


    Actually I have, its relatively easy to gather arcanic runestones with the right char and skill build.

    I don't have a 120 imbuer, but no offense the reagents aren't overly hard to obtain. Time consuming, possibly, but definitely not difficult. On top of that, it would probably take just as long to gather the BoD's to start a good rotation to get runic kits as it would to collect the essences.

    I have gone to places where people claim they never get essences, and farmed 25 in 45 mins or so.

    You could possibly make the money to buy kits in the time it takes to get the ingredients, but I guarantee you won't get that amazing suit you're after in the same time.

    You can make a suit with:

    RESISTS ARE 70/85/70/70/75
    100 LRC
    40 LMC
    7 MANA REGEN
    45 DCI
    2/6 CASTING
    +20 MAGE
    17 SDI
    18 INT INC
    13 HP INC
    5 DEX INC
    4 HP REGEN

    Thats with a -20 Mage weapon.

    with Imbuing.

    To find something similarly useful through tailoring and other means would be much more difficult.
     
  28. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    You DO realize that the Imbuer needs the crafter's (smith/tailor/carpenter/etc) goods in order to max out the mods they can put onto an item, and then to have it go back to said crafters iuf it is to be further Enhanced?

    Imbuing does not replace crafting, imbuing augments crafting.
     
  29. Sneaky Que

    Sneaky Que Babbling Loonie
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    More like evening the playing field between motivated players and lazy players.

    Imbuing is WAY to overpowered.
     
  30. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    I state again, time is the most expensive part of imbuing. I never said getting ingredients was difficult...but the time involved is.

    BTW...Writing a long essay does not excuse you from being ignorant of the facts. If making the items was as easy as you claimed (not to mention as uber) we would not be having this discussion.
     
  31. LordDrago

    LordDrago Certifiable
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    I am not a PvPer, so go ahead and flame away, but....

    It seems that most PvPers has complained that AoS ruined PvP because "PvP used to be about skill, but now its about who can get the best items"

    Now, the argument has become "Embuing has ruined the game because now everyone can get a 'perfect' suit".

    It seems to me that if everyone has the "perfect suit", that it all comes back to skill and matching your template strengths against their template weaknesses.





    Round 1: 2 fighters going at it bare knuckles (yeah)
    Round 2: fighter #1 brings out a knife (boo, he has the uber knife and has an unfair advantage)
    Round 3: fighter #2 brings his own knife to the fight (oh yeah, now its even, but even bloodier - everybody goes and orders the pay per view)
     
  32. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    I think not...

    Many of the players in game have a family, and a life. There are many players who cannot put hours and millions into crafting the perfect stuff. With faction arties and imbuing, more people get to play.

    Overpowered? You do know that barbed kits and runics produce items of above 500 intensity right?
     
  33. Aristillus

    Aristillus Guest

    Its as simple as this. You Cannot Imbue items as good as the best stuff in the game. Period.
    You can make really good stuff and customize some things to specific needs(Mage armor on mining gloves is my favorite) But runic crafted items are still the best in the game. Getting your own runics is not the only way to get runic crafted gear. I let other people burn runics and buy what I need from others.
    I have had a 120 Imbuer since a few days after SA launched, and yet the only imbued gear on any of my characters is a 100% LRC suit for my crafter, and some mage armor mining gloves.
     
  34. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    Dude, thank you very much...you hit the nail on the head for certain. When I first returned to this game, it took me two years to build the gear in order to compete with the *elite*. I was dedicated, and had a lot of time on my hands. All I wanted to do during those two years was compete on even ground...and now people do not have to.

    The only people who will complain are either

    A) unfamiliar with how imbuing works
    B) unfamiliar with how the pvp works
    C) do not wish to give up their advantage so they cry foul here...
     
  35. Picus of Napa

    Picus of Napa Slightly Crazed
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    I like it. I've made very nice items for myself and for guildmates but it is only a matter of time before everyone has better items then before. Runics will always make better. Jewels are the only area where you could say this is slightly powered but not overly. Its the same as before, those that have and want will get what they desire.

    I am enjoying the 50 EP 13/13 22 DMG rings matched to 13/13 mana regen 2 brac...woot for my chars.
     
  36. maroite

    maroite Guest

    It takes time to get runics too, and guess what, you can't hand tailor runic items. rolleyes: Please cry more to someone who actually gives a damn.

    Oh no, it takes me 14 hours to make a perfect suit. WAAAAH. How long has it taken some to perfect their runic suits? Months? Years? Omg, imbuing is soooo hard. I have to farm some ingredients, and then use my little pea sized brain to do some number crunching and then get EXACTLY what I want.

    No offense, but your condescending attitude that is a common theme in your posts doesn't make you intellegent, nor does it better your arguement. In fact, it makes you look like a child.

    Telling people to stop talking if they don't agree with you dribbling mouth. Are we 10 years old and playing on the play ground again and you're the kid that thinks the world and everyone in it owes him something because daddy didn't buy you that tonka truck for your birthday? rolleyes:

    I claimed that making items for imbuing is easier than runics. Do you deny this? It takes most people who don't have hundreds of BoD books built up days, weeks or longer to get a couple runics.

    Guess how many runics I have burned through and gotten not ONE useful item? At times, it can average 5 to 10 runic kits.

    Imbuing takes time. All crafting does. But the end result is that its MUCH easier and possibly less time consuming because you DONT have to fight the RNG.

    D) Have a concern with how imbuing will effect the other, RNG dependent, trade skills.
     
  37. Sneaky Que

    Sneaky Que Babbling Loonie
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    So? The game should not suffer simply because some of the players cant play a lot. ALL of us have real life commitments. The virtual world doesn't stop turning when you log off, nor should it.

    Yes, and they are much harder to get. You cannot decide that you want the leetest war fork (for example) in the game with a val hammer and just make it. It is random and thus much harder to get high end items. This was good thing, even though val hammers are also overpowered compared to Bkits. It meant that you either had to get very lucky, or actually put some effort into it.

    Imbuing also removes the need to PvM in the search of items. Thank God (aka Lord Brit) that there is PvP or there would be no point playing. People wont bother hunting for anything other than a few arties and resources anymore because it is just not worth it when you can create exactly what you want.

    Further to that, the kind of items that are being created by imbuing are too powerful for ANYONE to have, let alone complete nubs that dont deserve them.

    All imbuing has done is make the game more item based and less skill based (as if it needed to get worse!!).
     
  38. mjolnir131

    mjolnir131 Guest

    yes i was trying to be polite the actual number is closer to 99%

    and if it was uber i would agree but the way it's weighted your lucky to get much higher than a gold runic I get allot of relic frags from gold runics

    And your right it should not be about wealth but it appears those that are against imbue and worked during beta to get it released at it's present level wear/are more worried about how it effects them self as opposed to how it effects the game in whole. It's human nature you see you profits falling and you have to do something about it.
     
  39. mjolnir131

    mjolnir131 Guest

    On a fairly regular basis and above 600 is not that uncomon.
     
  40. Fink

    Fink Guest

    I think this is often forgotten. The argument against it is you can't pick the mods. But, if you do get that lucky combo, you need never replace it; nobody considers that overpowered.

    If they decided to wind back imbuing somehow, all the current stuff would eventually wear out and break & be out of circulation. Any uber runics in the game now will forever remain in the game.
     
  41. Quenchant

    Quenchant Seasoned Veteran
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    Imbuing is fine the way it is. It's a way for the have-nots to be able to field similiar equipment. There is still the desire to obtain runic crafted items.

    The only problem with imbuing is that it's taking me forever to get to 120. It's not a game issue, I just get tired of imbuing for the day after doing 100 items.

    Q
     
  42. maroite

    maroite Guest

    IF you get lucky. That "if" could be 10, 50, 100 runic tools down the road. How much time is that for the average player?

    There is no luck involved with Imbuing. You just stick what you want on the item, and you're finished and you can make VERY nice suits, in a very quick manner compared to gathering runics and hoping the RGN is on yourside.

    Please make up more false, arbitrary percentages without giving support for your claims.
     
  43. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    You first, maroite....
     
  44. Nh'bdy

    Nh'bdy Guest

    Dear anyone quitting,

    Can I have your stuff?

    Your's truly,
    ~Nh'bdy.
     
  45. mjolnir131

    mjolnir131 Guest

    I could go back threw all the example used on the forums if you really wanted it shoved in your face.

    it's all RNG will the ingredient i need drop or not, assuming the person's actually doing bods them self and not just buying them then that is RNG as well.runics without imbue items last forever and are way stronger imbue is temporary and will be OK but not close to uber.

    Now this is the whole case in point ...

    "That "if" could be 10, 50, 100 runic tools down the road. How much time is that for the average player?"

    the idea behind imbue was to give average players a chance to compete, but that has been nerfed to not happening.

    It use to be 4 types that wear against imbue and thinking it was over powered but those who wear just repeating what others have said have vanished, mainly because they can see how the system is working now. So all thats really left are those that really overpaid for there harness and are really pissed others are now getting it cheaper,Those that use to sell all that second hand crap for an uber price or finally the people who have a different advantage and don't like that gap getting narrowed.

    The way it stands a player might have one piece of imbued in a whole harness that just ties things together,and if we put it up to where it should be near a 600 weight you might see 2 or 3. even then most of the 3/1 rings used today would weigh out heavier.

    It's all luck getting it, taking the time to make what you want drop. Having to remake an imbued item over and over more than makes up for the permanents of a none imbued runic item.

    Imbue has taking steps to get true balance in the game, bumping it up to 600 would make it moreso.
     
  46. hawkeye_pike

    hawkeye_pike Babbling Loonie
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    I think the average player (NOT power gamer) did never possess the high-end runic items and arties, and will never have the high-end imbued items (as some resources really require a lot of effort to find).

    There's always a group of players who will have the best stuff due to the insane amount of time they're spending in UO, contrary to those people who only do in Britannia what is fun and entertaining. Fortunately, this group is the minority. Which allows us average players to have access to medium (but still good) items for a decent price.

    I think it is good that you can create decent equipment with not too much effort, like good jewelry with 90 imbuing and without needing too rare ingredients, good armor and weapons from medium runic tools, and decent artifacts like the Heart of the Lion.

    I'm quite happy with this, and I do not worry much about the high-end items some people have. Just avoid to get sucked into the power gamer treadmill. This game is meant to be fun, not work.
     
  47. legendsguy

    legendsguy Sage
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    problem is... if you lower imbuing down to 400 it's too weak, if you raise it above 500 it's too powerful. if you ask me, i think 400(450 exceptional) would have been alright.

    course, what do i care, i use imbued jewelry and looove it. imbuing rocks! though, you must admit there is a point to be made about choosing the properties you want as opposed to runics. sure, runics can make 600+ but i'd rather have 500 in the mods i want than burn through millions upon millions of gold to find the rare 600+ equipment that i want.

    people say that since the imbued armor wears out it all works out, but it takes a good 3-6 months for the jewelry to wear out. and even then, it's not too hard to make another set. imbuing will always be cheaper than burning through runics. the only thing runics have going for them now is.. well...

    .......

    hmm. i don't know. but i'm happy because the price on runics is ridiculous anyhow. there you go, if they'd just increase the chances of obtaining runics CONSIDERABLY and made, say, heartwood fletcher runics cost 1mil, then i think it could work. yes, it'd be random, but you could make enough bows to beat the randomness and make something decent.
     
  48. Jaimes

    Jaimes Guest

    Now what they need to do is integrate imbuing with the other craft skills more. Make it so that you need more than just a GM weapon or armor piece to imbue on... or maybe it's good enough with being able to add onto runic crafted armor and weapons.
     
  49. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    Please explain to me how letting more people participate is a bad thing?

    There is plenty of reason to pvm...ingredients, gold, items for unravelling, artifacts, ect.

    How would you see items as being too powerful? They eventually break, are not cheap to make and take time to craft, and are less potent than runic craftables.

    The game was item based, and only gave a few the opportunity to have the elitist gear. Age of shadows did this, not imbuing. Imbuing allows for anyone and everyone to work their way towards the perfect suit...even if they do not have the money. In addition, if you think about it...as another poster mentioned...imbuing just helps to level the playing field.
     
  50. I still prefer some of my runic made weapons to imbued ones. You cant imbue a -20 SC mage no neg wep with 19 dci and DI on it. You cant get above 15 dci with imbuing, nor would you be able to get the 40 DI on it as well. *I might be wrong here, I didnt look at my imbuing menu before I typed that out*

    There is a certain amount of sacrifice that comes with Imbuing as well. Example:
    A lot of imbued bows have 1 DI because you cant fit everything on them with the 500 cap. So instead of adding max ep or hci to the jewels, they have to add DI or try to get it in other places because the weapon is missing the DI a normal weapon would have.
    Instead of getting a runic bow with 40 SSI, some ppl settle for one with only 30 SSI, because again, imbuing gets expensive fairly quick when you try to enhance the items and they break.

    I know there are people who have spent hours upon hours getting their runic armor and weapons the right way. I never said anything against these people. Runic stuff is still better in most cases so all their work still paid off and will continue paying off.
    In two years of collecting bods, never once have I received anything more than a golden runic hammer or a horned kit. Until the change in Heartwood, never once did I, in all the hours I spent there get a heartwood kit.

    So, if I can make myself the almost perfect weapon and jewel set by simply farming the ingrediants for an hour or two, then by all means send me on my way to the Underground!
    The good thing is they break eventually or people change their minds about what mods they want and have something new made and the ones who went through the hell of training imbuing, burning kits or gathering and selling ingrediants will profit off those who didnt bother.. keeping crafters and gatherers in demand for a long time.
    *Edit* after reading Cowboys post I have to say this again.. there are some who did NOT get their gear the legit way while everyone else has struggled to get the best gear, so again, imbuing does nothing but level the playing field and make it possible for everyone to compete, esp in the PvP world. With imbuing there should be no excuses that someone cant try pvp because their gear isnt up to the same standards as everyone elses.